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Good morning! Thanks for the kinds words, I love obsessing on the little details of handling. And rear crosses are under-trained around the world but yet we use them all the time.
Great job on the find the jump exercises, Kip was utter perfection on the driving the line. This might be his favorite thing, ever LOL!
Plus, the distance skills are going to be “The Thing” for 2021 and beyond – that is the current trend in Europe and it will make its way here soon enough in all venues. Distance and layering and fast moving blinds to get where you need to be on course are all the ‘in fashion’ challenges at the moment.
So yes, keep playing with that, but let’s turn our attention to his wrap turns:>> I’m primarily working the initial wrap in these exercises as Kipling is still trying to learn to wrap tightly and use his rear power to blast out of the turn.>
Watching him work the wraps here, I don’t think it is a hind end thing: he is not leading with his head to start the turn. By that, he is not turning his head/neck into the turn so he is not fully bending. He is squaring the turn more, if that makes sense. That is why he is not yet tight and not powering out, because he is moving his whole upper body as one unit. Not sure I am explaining that correctly LOL!
But it is an easy fix. The ‘leading with the head’ shaping exercises are the answer to reinforce him for turning his head into the turn. If he turns his head, the rest of his body will also turn and then you will see him bend like a noodle.
I will pull up the link to it from the Max Pup 1 class – I think this is a good one to start with you using just a wing and no motion, to really isolate the turn of the head. My 2 demo dogs are both high percentage of whippet, so they found it easy to slide around like a noodle – so I will also go find the videos of my non-whippet dogs so you can see what they used to do and then how it changed by teaching them to lead with their heads into the turn (my Croatian/BC mix is a great example of it – he is NOT built to slither but by getting him to turn his head, you’d think he was highly angulated 🙂 )Nice work here! I will go find those links and be right back.
Tracy
Good morning!
I think people don’t realize that NADAC skills require some serious foundation – I cannot imagine how to handle those courses without verbals and massive commitment skills. And yes, Indy is brilliant too 🙂
>> My tunnel verbal is END, I purposely stayed away from IN, but your point might still be valid.
I run around my field and yell my verbals to see how they end up sounding at speed. My neighbors think I am insane (correctly hahaha) But it helps with the quest for different-sounding verbals 🙂
>>The handler has issues with determining where the exit is on the barrel, ie just a pass by, a 280 or a 360, so was trying to keep it simple with one set of commands.
That is totally relatable. I think of the exits as shapes: U or L or O. It helps me keep things straight without over-obsessing 🙂
>> My other thought process was that with a wing, the dog needs a directional, but I also like the dog knowing there is more to it (must jump as well, especially for the back sides). Where as the barrel, is simply dig and get around it in the correct direction and drive to what is next. So I think I want to keep the cues distinct.>>
Right, but in the interest of sanity and trying to spit out all those words at high speed: I have never seen a dog have any questions about whether the cue was for a jump or barrel or tunnel. It takes the pressure off because we can use the dog’s amazing skills to differentiate. The only time it might be an issue is if you ever see a jump and barrel very close to each other, as a discrimination – but I don’t think that ever happens, so no worries 🙂
>>>I am favoring the outside arm in and bent when the dog is behind me, but what happens when we are driving the DW and need the far end tunnel at the end and I am behind. Will she be able to see it.>>
Especially on a running dog walk, if you are behind and she might not see the physical cue…. it is alllllll verbal directional at that point. If you have a stop, the dog needs to wait til you are in the picture. But on a run? All verbals delivered pretty early. That is why RDWs take a long time to train because the end behavior AND the verbals must all get trained up.
>> An extended outside arm (lower) seem like it would be better. (Been working on thumb down in that position – helps keep arm lower and palm up, arm higher for NADAC turn aways). I need to decide and stick with it.>>
As I sit here playing with my thumb directions LOL…. yes, if you can do that, it will definitely help. It is hard to have a high arm with your thumb pointed down!
>>>I suppose it is good that I am thinking about this stuff and that my life is blessed, if this is what keeps me up at night!!!
This is SO TRUE lol!!!! My 3am obsessing was how to combine 2 toys to create my dog’s favorite toy into more of a tug toy LOL! It is a good life 🙂
T
Oops, sorry that I left out an important detail! Move them all to the half inch width at the same time. I think he needs them to remain in that one spot for a while so he can sort out the final details of the striding 🙂
And hooray for the full height dog walk! That is so fun!!!
TracyGood morning! Nice work in these sessions!
The first session looked good – the toy on the ground as a reminder to focus ahead worked nicely. She was fast and accurate in that session so I agree with you about moving in the next pole. That made her head explode for a tiny moment – when you moved the 4 pole a little further back out, she got it but she was thinking deeply about it. But that is GOOD! She was able to maintain her striding, maintain her focus ahead, get it all correct. She had to slow herself down to do it for a couple of reps but then she was back up to speed at the last rep. And you were great about just letting her figure it out 🙂 I really like it when the dogs think about things then add the speed back, versus when the dogs just go as fast as possible and don’t think about getting things right LOL!!So, because she was thinking about this – do the next session exactly where you left off here. You might want to do 2 sessions like that to hit all the entries (too many reps to do them all in one session). The poles were virtually straight here so then if the next session or two go well, you can just get the 2 pole into the center line, then we will just close them all the way up. I think as soon as she figures out the 4 pole, then it will be clear sailing to straight poles!
Keep me posted, this is looking great! How did your arts & crafts adventure go with the sand paint?
Tracy
Hi!
IT IS HAPPENING FOR SURE!!! I wish I knew how to get this device to put emojis here LOL!
And I have faith in your throwing skills (also, you can practice by throwing towards a bucket or something lol!)
>> With the striding, should I consistently look for swimming before making any closing advances?
Yes, you might spend a few/bunch of sessions at the half inch width, and that is fine.
>>Is it okay if he has an occasional hop as he’s trying to figure things out-
Yes, totally! Even the most experienced weaving dogs sometimes need to re-balance in the weaves.
>> I think some of that is related to the last pole opening and running for the toy.>>
Throw later. Let him think it through, find his balance – and throw after he exits (I am fine if he looks at you when he is done, for now). He might slow himself down for accuracy of striding right now: DON’T FREAK OUT. LOL!!! That is why I left the videos of CB slowing down to think about it and then speeding himself up again. They can’t go fast is they are still learning the coordination. Think of a mechanical skill you learned: typing? Playing an instrument? You had to slow down to get it right, but now you can fly through it. So let him get it right and then he will speed himself up 🙂
And of course – keep me posted!
Hi! Seeing both views is great, it is fun to see how he is using his hind end.
I think he is *almost* at the sweet spot for the poles but not yet. He keeps changing what he is doing at the entry (he was leaping in then he got his head lower then he was figuring out the feet) and that affects the striding. He did produce several reps of really lovely swim strides, which is great!
So I think the next step for him is to continue forward in the sweet spot quest and get him to feel the consistency of the rhythm, both at the entry and through the rest. That means all the poles should be the same distance apart. 1 inch might be a good starting point but I think at this stage you can go to half an inch, all poles. That will allow him to sort out the entries, exits, and striding.With that variable being changed, two other things come to mind:
Dial back your speed, reducing that variable for a session or two until he says “ah, got it!” Then we add back your speed at the half inch distance.
Also, click the MM later. Your clicks were coming during the poles, which was fine but now we are asking for duration on the striding and balance – and when he hears the MM click he tends to want to rush to it and will lose the striding. So, just delay the click til he exits or use a thrown toy after he exits. It is fine if he looks at you when he done for now, because there is nothing else to look at LOL!!And good job paying attention to the number of reps – limiting sessions and rest days get us closer to the end result faster, so with the next session being all the same distance, you will find it easier to keep track of things. The bigger dogs move poles all the time even when they are screwed in, so having them all the same distance apart will mean you only have to check that he hasn’t moved them 🙂
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! The wing wrap looked good here! And he was a good boy finding the poles on both sides of you (excellent job with your line ups to make sure he was on the correct side too)
He definitely was more pumped up for the toy and was faster. That will be great to keep increasing his speed!
The other thing I noticed is that he looks up at you a lot, which we need to change to get the speed and accuracy on 12 poles. We can convince him to not look at you by taking you out of the picture 🙂 During your next session – you will be seated the entire time 🙂 Pull up a comfy chair! Have some snacks! But you will be seated and not moving. Use just one base of 2 poles to get started (because he is going to think you have lost your mind) and the PT. Send to the poles from your comfy seat and reward from the PT. Then call him back, send again. And so on 🙂 When you need to switch sides, either move your chair to the other side, or move the PT to the other end.
When he can do it with you seated on 2 poles, we go back to 4 poles. When he can do it on 4 poles, then you can get moving again – but we need to take your motion out of the picture for now because he is coming to rely on it. He can weave when you are there, so no the focus shifts to weaving when you are not there (because you will not want to have to be next to him when he is weaving, you’ll want to be running to your next position on course :))it is fun to train from a chair LOL! And you’ll see him figure it out very quickly 🙂
Nice work here! Keep me posted!
TracyGood morning! Hope your butt and ankle feel better today!!!!! The things we do in the name of training…. LOL!
This session went well. I think he was not driving to the toy on the ground because he didn’t really know where it was each time. You can bring him to the start spot, then throw the toy to the end line, then cue the weaves so he can know where it is and find it immediately. He does better with the thrown toys because he can track them as they move so does not need to find them. But either way – the striding was good and I think at this point you need to close up the poles 🙂 The exit poles looked a little wider so he lost the striding – maybe put the entire set to a half inch of width and do a session just like this one. We should see the striding there too – at which point, the session after that can be straight 🙂 Yay! If he struggles at the 1/2 inch width, we dial back your motion variables until his success rate is higher, then we add them back (no more opening the poles unless he really really really struggles, which is unlikely to happen :))
Let me know if that makes sense – he is rapidly closing in on 12 straight poles!
Tracy
Hi! My general road map to diagnose issues is a progression through the following til we figure it out. I am sure you have already done some of these, but there are some other ideas:
– bloodwork to look for tick disease, inflammation markers and hypothyroidism. All of these can absolutely be the reason behind the issue he is having
– palpation by a rehab vet and also a chiro vet. This might turn. If he is muscular and tenses up, a sedated palpation is worthwhile
– radiographs of hips/spine/knees, neck, shoulders. And then the digital rads get sent out to be read by a radiologist because some little thing might get missed by someone who has a different field of expertise.– musculoskeletal ultrasound of the hind end (psoas, for example) and also shoulders. That can find things missed on rads and palpation as well as calcifications that might indicate something chronic in that area
All of the above is not all that expensive but it does add up which is what I start with bloodwork and palpation to narrow things down if possible.
And last but not least is an MRI, which is super expensive and basically a last resort.
I worked with Dr. Leslie Eide online to guide me through the process and well as some professionals here on the East Coast (one in North Carolina, one in Maryland) to get the diagnosis. Do you have sports vets in your neck of the woods?
Fingers crossed that this all becomes unnecessary and he just needs a little rest 🙂
let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Yes, he definitely likes the fast fast fast stuff! I think he is doing fine with his footwork and some of it is the mats – a little slippy! Do you have access to grass or good dirt so he can grip? The footwork questions were more due to slipping and I don’t want him to slow down to answer those questions. He will get it immediately on grass then you can close them up.One thing though – I don’t recommend doing them as rocking horses like you did here as it ends up being a lot of weaving and a low rate of success. For example on this session, he did 8 sets of 6 weaves, which is a really good number. But he got paid directly for the weaves twice and one reward came after the wing wrap. So with correlating the wing wrap reward into the total – that was 3 rewards for 8 reps which is under 50%. And that can lead to confusion when he has questions that might cause errors because the rate of success is relatively low coming into that. Continuing to the next thing does eventually become a secondary reinforcement but for now the primary reinforcement is what we are looking for. Also, by doing the rocking horses, there were some perfect footwork moments that did not get rewarded – I would be looking to have a big cookie party for those in particular.
So to keep the speed and excitement, spread out the wings so there is more running into the poles. But continue to reinforce on a 1:1 ratio for now until he has a longer history of 90% or higher success rate on straight poles.
That being said – I am pretty sure the poles can go straight in the next session or two! He is looking great!
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! Lovely session here. Meatballs are life! Meatball explosions are the BEST ever! Ha!
He looked perfectly happy to run up the board and shift his weight, hitting and holding target position. The only thing he didn’t want to do is release from the Meatball Extravaganza, but that is fine LOL!!!!So, next session: everything exactly the same:
Warm up with regular elevators
Do a couple of crazy elevators like you did here
One rep in the middle of the session is the full teeter
Then end on one or two more crazy elevators.The session should be a meatball filled party unless you have food that is even better than meatballs LOL!
And on the full teeter rep, a couple of things:
You should be moving but in a supportive way. Don’t sprint away and leave him in the dust 🙂 Stay near the board and try to plan to arrive at the end position as he does for these early reps.
Use your verbals similarly to what you did on the elevator games – teeter cue for getting on, then give the target cue when he is maybe halfway up.
And… reward anything that is even remotely correct, make a massive fuss over any effort to teeter: if he is perfect? Jackpot! If he is almost perfect? Still big rewards. If he has an oopsie and doesn’t get it right? Still reward because we don’t want him to overthink or get concerned. So basically, he is going to be paid no matter what (nice work if you can get it, right?)I am not worried about perfect criteria on the first full teeter because making it a great experience is far more important. He has a TON of understanding of the end position and stuff so rewarding one that is not perfect is fine 🙂
Nice work here! Keep me posted!!!
TracyGood morning and thank you for the great update!!!
It is those set backs that often push us to higher levels than we could even imagine. The dogs teach us a LOT! And I am glad you are using your FEO really well. The long term benefits will be soooooooo worth it!!! Put a video on Facebook, I wanna seeeeeeeeee!!!And give that girl some extra PB, she deserves it LOL
Hi! Because motion is hard, let’s start with something he might find relatively easy- both sets at 1&7. If I an wrong and this is hard when you are running, try both sets at 2&8. If he does a session and it is easy peasy, the next session should be straight poles 1-2 and the 3-4 poles still at 1&7.
Don’t change the pole tightness within a session, unless you need to open them to make it easier if he has a lot questions – if he is hitting homeruns, change the motion/handling variable 🙂 move faster, add the wings before the poles, do some crazy handling. 🙂
Have fun!!! And keep me posted 🙂
