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Good morning!
>> as of now I don’t think Promise could handle class and me teaching. I’m Working on her crating skills and patiently waiting. That is a LONG way off.
It sounds perfect for a Kryptonite game! You can have her crated in the house and bring her out to do a pattern game or something during a walk through. Using her as demo dog is GREAT!!!!
>>v So, she is starting to push the envelope again on her start line. I realize from your comments it’s probably my fault too lol!!! In my mind at judys I was taking steps lol, the video did not lie hahaha.>>
Yes, you were not leading out at Judy’s 🙂 Usually when a behavior erodes, it is a reinforcement issue, as in: when was the last time you reinforced it, specifically? Even on this video, the move into the position and stay was not reinforced specifically (the marker to get the reinforcement came after a couple of jumps). So balance everything with frequent reinforcement for both moving into the ‘ready’ position and reinforcing specifically for holding the position (throwing the reward back to her, or using her remote reinforcement marker to get the treats behind her). That is part of what makes agility so complex: all the small pieces need to be maintained through criteria maintenance and reinforcement, throughout the dog’s career.
On the video:
>> I did have a lightbulb today, that I may not be asking her for the ready when she has engagement with me.>>
Thinking about this – yes, she might need to be engaged before the ready cue. It is entirely possible that she need to be *more* stimulated to hold her stay, not less stimulated. Optimal arousal state is pretty high, so you can try getting her more stimulated with tricks and such before the stay behavior. On the very first stay where she did not hit position right away or hold it as well (you mark it as incorrect twice) – you were very chill bringing her to the start line, lots of stationary things happening before you came in. A little too much all business perhaps, outside the ring?
Before the next 2 stays, there was a lot more action: tugging, tricks etc – so she was immediately better and there was higher arousal and more engagement, and more success.
So she might be all business as you lead out, but she might need a lot of action before she enters the ring and on the way to the line. On the 3rd rep where she was sniffing – this was over 5 minutes into the session, which might not see like a lot but it is indeed a long time. You can set a timer on the session and go for 2.5 minutes then take a break. And, if you get surprise sniffing, no problem: use your toolbox to get her re-engaged by moving her slightly away from the sniff spot and doing some higher energy tricks. That should help 🙂
So I think overall, the remote reinforcement line up games (and sequence running) can be balanced more with rewarding the stay specifically (and not just with remote reinforcement, you can have food/toys in your hands or pockets). That will keep the behavior from eroding as you work on other stuff too 🙂 With a baby dog, I like to reinforce at least 50% of stays in training!
Nice work! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! This was fun to see!
First 2 reps were cartoon mashup – this was the winner overall the ‘all business’ lead outs! Running on the cartoon releases, trotting on the all business releases, She was faster and more engaged when you were doing your Elmer Fudd/Pink Panther 🙂 Look at her at the beginning – distracted but then enticed by the silly walk. On the 2nd rep, she was very focused and there were a zillion distractions in the environment. Were you also talking to her? It was hard to hear. If so – great! If not… add some quiet talking like ‘ready… ready….’
The only other things I would add in would to take the leash off (if possible) and don’t give her a cookie on the stay before you lead out. Those are not that useful for building the behavior and are very hard to fade when working to get her comfy in the trial environment.
You can also add in the jump! Let me know how it goes, I liked her responses on the cartoon mashup reps!
TracyGood morning (or afternoon there? LOL!)
>> we are trying to combine a few things here. tell me what u think. So i am in an area where there are big smells. I have a remote reward .. his treats are in the container. As he seems to struggle as soon as I unclip the leash at trials … I am trying to unclip followed by games followed by take a jump and run back to reward on cue. Here is Sparky. >>
Yes, I agree, that moment when you take the leash off is super important! As you work on that, remember to balance the games out – yes, sometimes be super high energy but also work the games where you are low energy and NOT cuing engagement and teaching him to offer it, reflexively. The low energy games are actually more important because it teaches him to make the decisions in the moment and modulate his arousal/distractions – the cues and tricks are great but they won’t work all the time at a trial if he doesn’t know how to make the decision.
This was SUPER high energy which is great, and high energy will help him! You can create a sequence of run in, leash off, touch, then take off for the jump (more below on a better sequence idea for this).
Also, restart with the leash every single time. It is a pain to put it back on but the issue is with taking off the leash, so you have to have taking off the leash as part of the game. So after every reinforcement, put the leash back on, leave the area, come right back in, take the leash off, and so on.
For the low energy games where you teach him to offer – we have already been working on it and he is doing well, so insert those into these games:
– you can run in like you did here.
– Take the leash off
– Then stand still, in a crouched, game on engaged posture and let him offer looking at you.
– When he looks at you (looking at you is the opposite of sniffing!) then you can go wild with the hand touches, release to the jump, etc.
By skipping the offered engagement and going directly to the hand touches, you are making his engagement reliant on your energy level and whether or not he can respond to those cues in that situation. High energy is a management technique and it can be helpful – but in the places where you cannot be high energy, or if you have to look away for a heartbeat, he needs to understand how to moderate his own internal state.By inserting the offered engagement? You are building up the understanding of how to ignore distractions without you needing to rely on your high energy. And by letting him offer then doing the tricks/jump, you are reinforcing the offering as well which will increase it!
Also – speaking of high energy – how are the engaged chill/relaxation games going? There is a substantial amount of time spent outside the ring, waiting for your turn, and it is impossible to use high energy to maintain engagement the whole time. That is exhausting for you both! So the engaged chill (and take a breath) games really help, as do the pattern games.
Any luck getting him into a group class of some sort? This is an important step for him to bridge the gap between home training and trials.
>>A lot of people are saying to me I should have the reward in front of him in training – bec what i am doing is only teaching him to run backwards for the treat …
I don’t think they fully know what the training goals are and why. We are not teaching him to run forwards or backwards 🙂 We are teaching him to come to the start line with engagement and a happy feeling, not stressed and able to ignore scents when there are no visible reinforcements in your hands or on the course. If the reward is in your hand or ahead of him on course – yes, he will be great but then he won’t understand how to do that in trials.
>>i feel I’m on the right path… My only battle with him .. and its big .. is the leash off seems to be the permission to disengage and sniff!! that’s the behaviour I need to repair…>>
I agree, you are on the right path! Reframe how you are thinking about it a bit: it is not a battle, he is not naughty 🙂 He is struggling and stressed – so we can help him! Think of it as helping your teammate and not battling your teammate. I don’t know if he thinks the leash off as permission or a cue to sniff, it is probably more of a stress-related behavior that got built in because trials are stressful, especially when all the food is behind the dog. So by helping him understand how to earn the reinforcement that is behind him and outside the ring, and also teaching him how valuable it is to offer engagement when the leash comes off (rather than sniff) – and also how to relax in the environment – you will be able to help him and change his feeling on the start line.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>> Yes. i am leaning toward it’s a nothing since the exit from the jump isn’t any kind of a turn. Based on one of your explanations a bit ago of left and right being for what shape the exit from the jump is those don’t seem correct since the exit is a straight line with no turn right after the jump. I almost put jumps in those spots with the bumps in place specifically because of that question but opted to stick with the game setup.>>
You can go ahead and put bumps in for the visual to decide the verbals! I name the directionals based on what the dog needs to do before takeoff to create the turn – so the big dogs would get a left or right directional because they have to collect to create the L shaped turn (if the jump bar is facing the tunnel) and definitely if the jump bar is perpendicular to the tunnel.
> A goofy puppy is good! And what you might see as less drivey can also be interpreted as less aroused, which is GREAT because I much prefer the dogs come into these sports will less arousal, making it easier to modulate the arousal later on. Looking back at my puppy videos, CB and Elektra look almost sleepy LOL!! But, as 2 year olds now they are very fast AND centered in their arousal states. Beka will be very similar – it is LOVELY to trial dogs like this!
>>Week 1 – Wind in the Hair
So, since we are outside now I decided to work this again so we could build up distance that we couldn’t do in the basement and as a bit of prep for doing the tunnel exits game next. No issues here >>Looked great! My only thoughts were little things like “heavier toy” (which you did), “throw a little sooner” (which you did) and you can also repeat the GO more than once so on the bigger distances and courses, the repeated verbal really supports her line.
This WIYH setup gets used for a bunch of things, so keep working the Go lines as you add in the rear crosses, backside wraps, and front side wraps 🙂
>>I have the tunnel exit game set up now and have a couple of questions:
– Should we do a few ‘go’ games with the tunnel too before playing it? I looked for a game that did this before the tunnel exit game but not seeing one (maybe max pup 1?) as I think she might need that practise as prep since she has never had a chance to blast out of a tunnel in the basement.>>Yes, definitely prep and refresh it since it is the first time outside – we did some in MaxPup 1 and this game makes it easy too, but you can totally do a bit of refreshing before adding more turns.
>>– Only have a 20′ tunnel in the yard right now, should we shorten it up, mostly for the go part to the wing? thinking it is going to be hard to help show her to go around the wing the times she goes straight out of the tunnel like you do with Elektra in the video.>>
If you can shorten it and prevent it from moving or possibly catching her toes, then OK – but I like tunnels to be stretched out and well-secured, so the other option is to have the Go wing really close to the exit of the long tunnel, and set yourself up to cheat a bit by getting ahead so you can connect and handle the line for the Go to the wing. You won’t need to cheat when she understands the Go exit more, but the cheating is a great start LOL!
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!!
I’m sorry to hear about the bout of covid. I think we are all going to get it at some point – I had it in February. I got lucky (super mild case, just a stuffy nose). Sorry to hear about the fatigue!!!!!You can keep posting til May 18th, so hopefully that gives you time to recover more. Feel free to tweak these into things like tunnel or jump sends while you sit on the couch!
Keep me posted and feel better soon!
TracyHi!
>>So for the go I think I’m bending because I don’t feel like she’s going full throttle. I may be just used to heavier driven dogs like Ella. Maybe add more space so I can relax and run- also why I think I’m over connected. Or with that make it harder for her to commit?
Bending and not accelerating tells her to not go (extreme connection like that is a collectioncue)…. so yes, definitely add more space so she can run more, and you need to support it by running more too LOL! She only needs enough connection to know which side of you to be on so you can reduce connection in favor of more motion.
Do TONS of go reps with early thrown rewards so she turns on the burners and leaves you in the dust. Viszlas are generally faster on the flat than BCs, so you’ll feel her power kick in soon 🙂
THi!
>>Are you saying after I carry Posh into the ring and she gets distracted by something while on the way to start or set up in the ring, put her down, have her do a few tricks, get her engaged, then pick her back up and start again?
Or are you suggesting this for before we enter the ring?>>
Yes. And yes 🙂 be prepared for whenever it might happen. If it happens outside the ring and she is already in your arms? You can put her down, do some tricks or pattern games (for treats). If she is inside the ring, put her down and do some tricks – you won’t have treats but you might have a toy. Also, does she tug on her leash? That is very useful!
Tracy
I think it is more of a case study of men versus women! In my experience (going on almost 24 years now, LORDY!): women in agility do really well with deceleration. Men do not naturally do as well (and you’ll find that men fall more when running full out in agility, because they try to sprint and turn without decelerating into the turn). So, I tell men to stand up to create the decel, and that tends to help 🙂
T
Hi!
The zig zags are looking lovely! She is *almost* bouncing here and that is great, we want the bounce! So moving them closer might get the bounce – she is loking really confident with her lead changes in both directions! I think the next step in the progression for her is to move it all closer together – the end of the jump bump 31 can be touching wing #2, and the end of jump bump 2 and be touching wing 3.
Lap turns:
She did really well on these!! You were freestyling a little bit of the handling but that is great LOL!! It gets you to be quick on your feet and she was happy with it all!
Her only questions on the lap turns were when you cue hand was not extended enough (your elbow was too bent so your cue hand got a little too tucked into you and was not obvious enough) so she didn’t read it as a cue to come in towards you and ended up on the wrong side of the wing. She did best on the lap turns when you had your hand fully extended towards her, like at :20 – you had an extended hand aka “magic cookie hand” to attract her focus, and makes it really clear for her!
Because she has such lovely commitment to the wings, you can make things easier by sending her to the other wing from further away, so you don’t really have to back up into the lap turns – the send will allow you to basically be waiting for her in the right spot, with the magic cookie hand extended to her nose 🙂Tandem turns – she is responding to these turn aways so nicely!!!
I think the main thing to remember on the tandem turns is that you are facing forward the whole time until after you turn her away – you were backing up int the lap turn for part of it and I think that was messing you up. You had great forward-facing tandem turns at :07 and then again at :58 and 1:03. Those were lovely!Great job! Let me know what you think1
TracyHi!
>>Aka sea star or bat star>>
I need to research my various sea creatures 🙂 We don’t see many of them here in the Blue ridge Mountains and it is possible I am naming these games after creatures that don’t exist LOL!
Good work on these! There are two details that will help smooth out the lines where he had questions.
>> We noticed Ronan had a much higher accuracy rate doing the threadle with me than with Mike. I took some snapshots of the videos and it seems that Mike is either a step further out or a step further back than I am when Ronan comes out of the tunnel. Feet are usually pointing forward and we are both moving forward towards the wing… In that first rep or 2
Looking at all the reps – Ronan definitely did better for both of you with a more obvious outside arm that got his focus then turned him away. At first, Mike’s hands were not as clear but then he got MUCH clearer at :33 and :42!!! So keep going with the super clear outside arm, that really helps.
>> I also think the huge holee roller was distracting! What do you think??
Only when he didn’t read the turn away on Mike’s first rep, otherwise he was great about following the cues.
The other thing I see with the turn aways/threadles was that Karena had decel happening as she was using the outside arm to set up the threadle/turn away, and Mike did not. Mike, you were tending to run fast then stop while trying to turn hm away, and so Ronan didn’t see the turn away cue as well – the decel really prepares him for it. Karena, you were doing a deceleration naturally, which got his focus on your more so he read the turn away better. Mike – try decelerating as you say in in and show the outside arm, then keep decelerating as you turn him away. Let me know what you think!
The other thing he had trouble with was the left/right ‘race track’ moments for both of you. It was a connection issue. At 1:16 (for Karena) and 2:16 (for Mike) you both had your arms pretty high and ahead of him, pointing forward to the wing. He was behind you, so from his perspective, he saw your back turning away from the line and lateral motion away from it (so he didn’t go to the wing).
Compare that to 1:28 (Karena) and 2:24 (Mike) where you both kept your arms back longer and used more eye contact, and Ronan was perfect.
So as he exits the tunnel, be sure your arm is back pointing down to his nose, and let him get past you before you point it forward.Great job! Let me know how the in in goes with the decel added in!
Tracy
Hi! Thanks for the update!!
Run 1 – either my computer is losing its mind, or there is no sound on this video LOL! He di really well here – I notice the biggest differences when you have an oopsie or you are talkin to the instructor. The little dude stays engaged and gets right back to work with very little effort from you. YESSSS!
>>He didn’t have much activity before his start so he was a bit more distracted to start and ran over to his reward station which reminded me I forgot his clam.
This was good to see, as it helps us know how much the tricks and games help him get his head in the right place before each run. Note the difference n the next lead outwhen you were sillywith the cartoon game 🙂 – total focus!
>>I did try the cartoon lead out and my instructor tried to tell me he skipped the tire but I just kept going.
I think he probably needs more understanding of the tire in general. Do you have one you can borrow to clicker training him to go through it? and in class, you can try putting big jump wings between the frame and the tire to guide his eyes to the center of the tire to help him find it.
2nd run: Having more warm up time makes a big difference: I love love love the engagement he offered when the leash came off! The miss on th jump after the tunnel at :30 was a connection oopsie (he only saw your back and you were moving laterally) but I love how he handled the resets. And this course in general was quite complicated as you mentioned but he did really well! You can use reset cookeis – likle for htbackside after the tunnel, that is a handling error, so a reset cookie before sneindg him back in will help him stay in the game.
And BRILLIANT reinforcement for the tire! That was smart to reward it rather than continue.
>>It felt like the best run so I was curious to see the video but I stopped it 4 secs into the start.>
GAH! Of course the best run doesn’t make it onto the video LOL!
>>For this run I did probably step 4 instead of 3 as it was 17 obstacles and he added the tire on his own at the end and actually took it. I just kept running to his reward and came back to leash him.>>
So basically a full course without obvious reinforcement? SUPER!
>> I did cartoon lead out walking backwards facing him and was able to get in front of tire so he took it this time. >>
Yay!! Well done!
>>There was a long stretch the instructor said he did well following me as it was the blue jumps in the middle all the way to the white jump near the woods past the tunnel and AFrame. I didn’t stop anywhere or retry but didn’t seem like he had any issues. It took 2 mins since I accidentally started the recording during his reward session. He was fine with the Sheltie coming out when I was leashing him so he was better than last week.>>
So overall, he was a rockstar. I am excited to hear it!!!!
>>After his 1st run, they had the inside open so took him inside. I practiced disconnect on tunnel and he found my face, not middle. The channel weaves were open so he ran thru those and hopped on a table. Between runs, he was checking out the chairs which had his rewards and someone else’s treats. They had watered the ground so it was a tight area to navigate to start his run.>>
This is all good! He is already doing well staying engaged when there is an error or stop in the action, so the Find My Face will furthre solidify that. And the channel weaves are great for solidifying his weaves too.
>>On jump sequences he runs in toward me frequently but he’s better about going back out and taking it.
I think the next step will be increasing connection to help him stay on his line more. Less arm to show the line, and more eye contact. I know it sounds weird and counterintuitive, but works really well!
>>He seems to do better on lead outs if I face him and walk backwards. Opposite of how we were trained to walk away.>>
It is further proof that different dogs need different things 🙂 If it works for him, and he is happy and fast, and it is easy enough for you to do… let’s do it!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyYou’re doing a great job! And brilliant to practice with the Borders, because everything happens so much faster with them 🙂
Tracy
Hi! All of this looks great!
On the ‘find the jump’ –
She did really well here! Very confidently finding the jump and FAST FAST FAST. YAY!!!Now… for your next session, you need to move more. Start with jogging then build up to run run run! Add in more motion as you move up the line close to the jump – you can be way ahead, laterally away from her, and also run closer to the tunnel so she drives ahead.
For the reinforcement:
Remember to use your ‘get it’ marker before you throw the reward (rather than ‘yes’, which I don’t think indicates a thrown reinforcement) so she knows where to look. And, you can throw a bit sooner so she doesn’t look back at you: I think when she is a full stride before the jump, the reward can already be moving so it is landing before she takes off.The rear cross session looked great too, I am glad you tackled it!
For the Go reps – bend over less, run more 🙂 Yes to being connected but don’t be a helicopter mom (no hovering LOL!!) Hovering/over-connecting adds rotation and also puts pressure in towards the bar which can get confused with rear crosses. So yes, have your arm back and look for her eyes, but stand up and run 🙂 You can connect less – a more casual connection and not as much very direct eye contact.Rear crosses looked fabulous!
Start closer to the start wing on the RCs so you don’t have to wait as long – waiting is hard LOL!! I was very happy with all the RCs to the right but will bug you about one thing: at 1:20, I think you said GO RIGHT GO RIGHT… don’t mix verbals LOL! Go means straight, right means turn right… “Go Right” is confusing. It was probably just a verbal twitch because you didn’t want to wait at the wing with the beast coming at you 🙂
Left turn RCs – she is reading these really well too! The first two were a little delayed getting on the RC diagonal pressure, I think you were mainly too far from the start wing by a step or two – you can wait at the wing (which is admittedly SO HARD) or you can add more distance between the wing and the jump 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
