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Voodoo is an expert of dealing with my screw ups hahaha so it happens very fast.
>>So you pair a word/phrase with it?>>
A VERY informal one, like “you’re cute” or ‘cmere’ or ‘sorry dude’ or “F*CK!” hahahaha but most definitely NOT a reward marker. For me, all of those markers are reinforcement markers, which mean “you are correct, your reward is_____” So ‘search’ (or my ‘get it’) should mean “that is correct, your cookie is tossed out there”. But the thing is, it was NOT correct – and using the reward marker can be very confusing if it is used for both. For example, I use “bite” to indicate “you are correct, grab the toy in my hand” but I never use bite when I use a toy for a reset or effort reward – because that would get confusing as to *which* behavior is correct: take the front or the back? So the informal words for resets/efforts are very clearly different from the ‘click’ value of reward markers.
Now that I am typing it out, that could be why the pups we have raised with the effort/reset cookies like this are very happy to keep working and also very clear about what is right or wrong… versus the pups that get frustrated when the reset/effort rewards have the same markers as the ‘you’re correct’ markers (like when people use ‘search’ for ALL the things, the dogs are confused).
t
I was typing the reply as you sent this LOL!!! It was a crazy day here with a vet visit 2 hours from home.
Hi! They are scattered throughout, here is one I found:
There is one here when I reset Voodoo after he takes the front instead of the back (it is VERY fast LOL!)Basically it can either be “good dog, here is a treat” if something goes wrong or it can be “come here” calling her to you and giving her a treat as she is lining up at your side again similar to what I did with Voodoo.
THi! These are very helpful videos!
First up, crate:
>>First is 3 quick clips of him in the crate, waiting his turn. This was fairly relaxed for him.
He was breathing pretty hard here especially on the first clip – was this right after a run, before the next one? We want him to be more chill, so I think a snuffle toy or lickimat will definitely help!
Because of this:
>>Peanut butter Kong elicits some pretty strong resource guarding behaviorand this:
>>ready to fight her dog to the death for the kibble
I think you can also have a barrier or wall of some sort, so he can’t be approached while he is in the crate with a food item. Resource guarding is an anxiety behavior, and the environment must be hard for him with so much food around! So you can get a 3-fold piece of cardboard, a couple of feet high, so he has a visual barrier (can’t see the other dogs) and also so the other dogs don’t look at him – so he can relax more and not feel like he has to potentially resource guard. He has a blanket covering the crate but I have found the barrier to give the dogs more room and an even better barrier, so they relax more 🙂
On the runs:
These are great to have on video!!!
>>So, just chose to go with lots of food and Pattern Game….we have been able to start to do some RR but didn’t want to go there today after what happened on our first run.
This is always a good choice!! Great job doing it while you moved AND gave target placement directions.
Bearing in mind that the pattern games are calming: they are great for coping with the environment but do not seem to put him in the optimal state for the agility start line and run (this is normal, my dogs don’t go to the optimal state with just pattern games either).
So a couple of things:
After you pattern game and feel you have engagement… you need to raise his optimal state. This is where you can pull from your volume dial toolbox of tricks and wildness 🙂 Get him a bit nutty! This can be done outside the ring right before you enter, or on the way to the line, or both (so far he is all business on the way to the line, so you can do it outside the ring at trials but at the line in training)
Then you can take the leash off.
And when you take the leash off – let him choose what he wants to do next. On the first video at :36, he looked away (he state of arousal was too low) and you took his collar to get engagement. I suggest not touching his collar when the leash is off, especially if he dips his head. Don’t hold the collar or move it up to get engagement – just take a breath and wait 🙂 If he cannot offer engagement in that moment, then I would definitely not lead out because he is not ready. Give him a heartbeat to offer engagement, and you can reward that in training! Or lead out then release quickly (both of which are also reinforcement). If he cannot offer engagement in that moment, you can pull out his favorite action tricks and do a few reps.
That moment of offered engagement is hugely important: it indicates his arousal state (ready or not?) and also when the dog makes a choice that is reinforced, there is some science that tells us that there is a dopamine release which is very helpful for the run!
He struggled on the first part of the run, and it is fine to bring him back. Be careful of the cookies or hand in pocket though – if you are going to show him the reset cookie… give him the reset cookie (I have no problem with a reset cookie on a broken stay when the dog is anxious, I would have given him the cookie :)) I also agree that we want to get the snappy behavior on the first rep, not the second after you come back to deliver reinforcement as that is probably a “tell” that it is training, which is why you are seeing some of this:
>> The whole sit, take off leash, leadout, lose focus, come back and reset and then able to do it the second time seems to be a pattern I’ve setup>>
So the volume dial will help, along with the off leash offered engagement and shorter lead outs.
2nd video – He got a cookie when the leash came off but it happened so quickly that I am not sure he made a choice to engage – take the leash off and then wait to see what he does 🙂 Then, lead out and release quickly – the leash came off at :06 and he broke his stay to wander off a bit at :18… that is an entire half of a JWW run!
So – you can do volume dial tricks before his run then when you get to the start line, take the leash off, get engagement – if you have it, lead out and release ideally within 5 seconds or so. That means short stays to set him up for success and/or jogging out to position. That will help raise his rate of success on the start line – it was 50% here and he will be more engaged when it is higher.
And if he can’t offer engagement, you can do some volume dial tricks!>>whatever the dog needs is her motto.
Lo is THE BEST!!!!
>>Oh yeah…..we’ve also been working on I’m not sure if you’d call it a Volume Dial or a Controlled Chill behavior…. but where I’m sitting or kneeling on the floor and he’s laying at my side and I’m petting him.>>
That is the engaged chill 🙂 Yay!
Starting on Monday we will be stringing the bigger pieces together and I think that will really help – his pattern games are helping, so now add in more volume dial/action tricks and off leash offered engagement at the line. That should help a lot!
Great job 🙂 Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
She looked great – SO FAST! Yes, you are doing it correctly – throwing the ball out on the line all fast & furious like that really makes a difference to her. She is looking at the line more for sure and wasn’t being sticky. You were connected, too! And because you were planning to throw, you arms were nice and low 🙂 So for the next session, do a sequence on this setup and plan somewhere to throw the toy (ether the go on a tunnel, or the left on the wings) so you can surprise her with your throw 🙂Great job here!
TracyHi!
Sorry to hear you have Covid! I had it in February but it was super mild, I got lucky. Feel better soon!!!
>>I do a lot of reset “search cookies” but don’t think I’ve implemented them in that way consistently so yes I will totally do that. >>
I prefer reset cookies or effort cookies (or toys) to come from my hand, in an engaged way, rather than tossed away on the floor. I mean, if we are not going to reward the behavior we wanted to get, we might as well reinforce the effort and lining up for the next rep. Search cookies make the floor engaging 🙂 and also send the dog away on angles that might not help the reset or next rep. it is all about the engagement 🙂
>>Our tugging is better and part of my standing weird is that moment of trying to not hold her collar get a cookie on her and let go before she goes with out me😂. Work in progress for sure but huge improvements there!>>
I recommend adding a third arm. Having 3 hands will make it easier hahahaha! Kidding!
>>On the turning away stuff- she did really well with this but I feel like it’s because she’s patterned right so the direction I stand or side we are on helps her , which is fine- I assume it will transfer over time to true understanding?>>
Yes, you are totally correct for these and for the checks & digs – we are naming the behavior with an easy setup then oh so gradually making it harder and applying it to different skills.
>>She really is fast so I’m totally good with cheats! I can throw a toy BUT our retrieve is a work in slow progress- as long as there’s no big motion ( like running) she will bring it back.>>
Can you throw a lotus ball? She is less likely to run off with one of those, maybe?
>> If her arousal is in the chill zone- she will bring it back. We have been working this literally daily with huge huge improvements but we aren’t there yet so I will adjust to help her get the wings or toss when I know I have a chance to get it back>>
She is only 7 months, I know the retrieve will come together. In the meantime, throw things she is less likely to run off with. Or, put a manners minder out there the whole time, and she will have a good distraction for the non-go reps 🙂
Feel better!
TracyThanks for the check in! When will spring arrive in Minnesota?!?!?! It seems like you have had an abnormally long winter. Fingers crossed for tomorrow to be super windy to dry out the grass for the weekend 🙂
Have fun with the grids on Friday!Tracy
Hi!
I think this went REALLY well! Rear crosses are really hard with small dogs because our feet get close to them, and a lot of small dogs don’t like that at all – but you were really clear with the handling and she did a great job!
I thought all of your GO lines looked good. And all of the left turn rear crosses were really good, she has an easier time turning left. The first couple of right turn rear crosses were a little late and you did a great job with the reward placement, but then starting at :26 (and at :30, :38, and all of the rest of the right turn rear crosses), you were MUCH earlier in the timing and she read the rear cross before she took off. Hooray!!!! And great job with the verbals too.
>>None of my other dogs could do it using this setup, hmm, so she must be a genius.
Well, I agree that she is a genius 🙂 It is also possible that the other dos (who are much bigger) needed you to do the RC line as early as you did for Sassy, or maybe even earlier. The big dogs make decisions pretty early. Did you video them too? You can slow the video down and see if you had the same early timing as you did with Sassy 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Sunny skies are TOTALLY flip flop worthy!!!!Training in the smaller space is perfect for this game! I guess he really loves the tunnel LOL!! Great job breaking it down and helping him see the serp – changing his start angle really helped and then he was able to get a lot of success at the original angle. For the next session, start him on the easier angle of facing the jump to establish the success, before moving him back to the angle facing the tunnel.
You can also shake your serp hand a bit, as the shaking motion of it will draw his attention to it even more 🙂 He was so funny when he was incorrect, ran back through the tunnel, and then did the serp. I love him LOL!!!!Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>Worked remote reinforcement today with just the balls like you said. You are SO right. Just one step away for her is like torture. So, put her on the leash but did not have to use it, just took a step away, after some hesitation she followed and back we went. Then slowly increased steps and she complied. Stopped working at about 10 steps, every time running back to play with the balls. Kept he on leash even for fetch. Should I try without leash? Like you said, this game with her ball is a totally different animal. Puts her in the ultimate level of arousal.>>
You can try it on leash for a couple of steps and then sometimes run back… and sometimes take the leash off and see if she will offer engagement (and then run back to the ball :))
>>At first Posh was a bit worried with instructor standing in middle, so she had me just play fetch throwing balls in instructor’s direction. Worked well, so she had us do some simple sequencing using weaves. This went excellent, using 2 balls.
Awesome!!!! The balls are truly helpful.
>>Towards the end, next peeps came into area with their dogs, one golden retriever. Instructor a bit concerned, but I kept Posh’s attention with ball and let her leave with ball in her mouth. Passes right by peeps, strangers to me, and their dogs without event, peeps ignored us, didn’t talk to them.
GOOD GIRL!!! Sounds very successful. Hooray! Who was the instructor?
>> Walked the course, GP, it was nice, knew we could do it. Decided to FEO due to difference in environment and the specific people doing gate, timing etc.
Good decision – set her up for success!!
>> Had to wait for jumps reset and went in with one ball in side pocket and another in back pocket. Did a few spins on the way to line. Start would have been dangerous for swing start so asked for sit, popped off leash, led out, she held it! released her and went. >>
So all of this good stuff happened with your hands empty, balls in pockets? YAY!
>>Rewarded with ball about 1/3 way through for DW contact and kept going, rest of course would have messed her timing things to reward. So we ran to finish, rewarded with ball, had her jump in my arms, put leash on, out to purple chair for treats. We had a Beautiful run and would have had a 1st place Q had it not been FEO.>>
Gorgeous!!!
>> Judge complimented us, knowing our struggles. She knew the judge, minimal ring crew, all sitting down except leash runner, but this leash runner is a pro, we’ve had her many times and she understands our struggles.>>
It is really great to have such supportive people around 🙂
>>Saturday night…back to site for Steeplechase. She did so well the night before I wanted to try no FEO.>>
That’s the temptation! I have a few more FEO steps I think she needs before we do it all for real 🙂
>> Someone we’d been in puppy class with for a year, squatted down to pet her, a friend of ours. I remained calm, Posh did well, but I could tell was just tolerating and not enjoying it. Some people like to show that Posh knows them and is ok with them, for me?>>
That is a hard situation! Feel free to tell them that Posh is in training and is not allowed to greet people. I mean, it sounds strict, but the truth as you know is that she doesn’t want to have these interactions. So the easiest thing to do is blame your instructor (me! LOL!) and tell the people that I have asked you not to let Posh greet people LOL!!! That way they are not offended and Posh doesn’t have to meet anyone she doesn’t want to meet hahaha
>>But I think even though that’s true, in a trial environment it just complicates things for her. So we went on, not letting anyone else do that. >>
Totally agree! She doesn’t want it, so she doesn’t have to do it 🙂 It doesn’t help!
>> Popped leash off, she looked at jump and was ready to go….
Good girl! yay!
>>but I had to be a perfectionist and wanted her angled a specific way, so bypassed that magic moment, picked her up and angled her…ish.
Oops! No yay! Lesson learned LOL!! She can sit however she wants as long as she is happy and engaged.
>> Given the complications, it would have made a great FEO opportunity. Her running off and barking was on a much lower level than it has been in the past, almost a run by bark, but any is not good. As I went over the events in my mind, I could see how I set us up for that.>>
It is a good learning! That is why I have really broken down the FEO runs into different steps. She is currently in step 1, just like home, visible toy, transitioning to step 2 (toy in pocket). I have a few more steps for you in coming weeks, which will help that amazing behavior you got in step 1 (the grand prix) be there even when you are in the final step and running for real 🙂 So for now, stay in step 1 (visible toy) if it is a very complicated environment or step 2 (hidden toy but still FEO) if the environment isn’t too challenging.
>>Many last minute ring crew standing in dark
Ooh yes, that could be scary!
>> Ran later, lots of congestion
In those congested moments, you will want to be in step 1: just like home, visible toy for NFC
>>Of course I feel bad, but on the other hand, learned a lot between the two nights.
Don’t feel bad about it! Definitely good learning, and you didn’t get mad at her, you didn’t punish her – she still had a really good experience 🙂
>> For her runs, had to go to 2 ball level, it was the only thing that won out over bunny poo, lots of bunny poo. Course needed lead out, tried our routines, but left me for poo. >>
Darned poo! LOL!
>>So instructor had me run away and play with balls. Posh came and we worked balls back to start and then was able to get a start line with lead out. After that, Posh did really well, lots of rewarding. The course was UKI hard but she could do it. Running my more experienced dog first let me relax about how to run the course and concentrate on just working with Posh. Second course, we went right out with balls, had her full attention from the get go and instructor stood right in the middle with big hat and sunglasses. and Posh could have cared less. Posh did very well. Instructor said she thinks Posh is terrific, we just need to get the reward off of me.>>
Perfect! Good job working through it!!! And yes – we are working the remote reinforcement, so she will run as well without a visible reward as she does with the visible reward.
>.Another class and private this week followed by AKC this weekend. She’s in EX JWW, FAST, and T2B. Unfortunately JWW comes first, but will run others FEO.>>
For the class and the private, keep incorporating some of the games – you have have the reward station set up, you can do more remote reinforcement and more runs mixed in with nothing in your hands or pockets. Will the instructor let you do some pattern games with treats in the ring, near the ring crew people? And you can also have treats or a ball in your pocket and work on the off leash offered engagement, as well as the pattern games and tricks.
For the JWW class at the trial… even though you theoretically can’t do a real FEO, you can set it up so it feels like an FEO run: rather than the full course, pick a fast, fun line of maybe 4- 6 obstacles that take you from the start to the finish and then jump into your arms, pop the leash on as you rn out to the reward station. Just make sure the person behind you knows you are doing this 🙂 I don’t suggest trying a full run for real yet – we want to ease her into that so we can really maximize her brilliance in coming weeks 🙂
Great update! Let me know what you think and keep me posted!
TracyHi!
>>At home, I did add the pet tutor to the jumps so it would increase the value. I need to figure out a good time to reward jumps as he’s moving and he’s stopped on contacts. I was happy to see him leave the AFrame and head off towards a jump on his own.>>
I do lots of throwing of the reward on big lines, or after a cross – it is hard to remember to do it when the dog is running, but I love how much commitment it teaches the dog. you can also ask your instructor to throw it for you so you don’t have to worry about it 🙂
>> He likes the teeter so it should be fine to do regular agility. It’s only 45 mins so I could go Sat to get used to it and maybe get him measured, then run on Sun.
I think regular agility will be great for him! A
>>I have started him at 8 inches a few times in Intro USDAA or run thrus just to make it easier. In UKI his height is 8 inch. Is it better to stick with 12?>>
He is a really good jumping dog, so I think the goal is to make things easy and fun for him – you can totally run at 8″! And be prepared to run fast, he will fly 🙂
>> Is the Saturday run through at the same place as the class?
No, this is a different facility but he’s familiar with it as we go once a month. It’s indoors and same place we went a few weeks ago. It’s AKC.>>Perfect! He is definitely ready for you to take these games on the road 🙂
Tracy
