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Good morning!
>> I’m not a member of a club .. I think it would prob help him a lot. Will think abt joining one.>>
100% yes! Getting him into some kind of regular group training will really help – otherwise, he is really only regularly exposed to those distractions at trials, where he has to do all the hard stuff without reinforcement.
>> Today I took him to a shopping mall and got him to do tricks and lead outs .. no problem but I did have food on me.>>
Good boy for doing all that in a new place! Next time, bring your reward station so you can do that with remote reinforcement and no food on you 🙂
>>Another thing .. I’ve been trying to think creatively .. I know that if I set his crate up at the startline .. he would run with me no problem. Do u think there’s anyway I could incorporate this into his start lines? Maybe I could bring the crate close .. break him .. run in .. take off leash .. connect and run? What do u think.>>
It is a possibility but it depends on the rules – how close is the crate allowed to the ring? And it is a good way to set him up for success… but it does not cover the training for ignoring the distractions and getting into the right state of focus and doing lead outs. So it is a game that can be incorporated but should not replace the training runs and all the other games. It is a tool for the toolbox, but you won’t want to rely on it as the mai thing or only thing because that means you are managing the situation more than training the situation.
>>Just to give u another idea abt Sparky’s super nose. Today when I arrived home I drove into my garage which is a brick structure . I took him to the back door to let him into the house .. took off his leash and he belted out the garage door .. he never does this. I called him back .. nothing.. I went out to the street to look .. no one there and then I noticed him eating a piece of biscuit that a bird must have dropped .. I was astounded. So the point to my story is .. all the bits of food that people drop before entering the ring is really hard for him to resist>>
That makes my point about how it is critically important to work the ‘ignore the kryptonite’ games because even in moments where he is incredibly reliable, such as going into the house or coming out of a crate, he might see or smell something and that causes him to be unable to respond.
>>Ok so thinking more .. I could use the crate game .. release to a jump and start putting food on the side snd get him to ignore it?>>
Absolutely! But I would take the jump out of it for now and just have him release to you. And start with food that is not easily accessible. This would qualify as a Kryptonite game because food is definitely a kryptonite for him 🙂
Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
Watching the video… this is actually really really good!! We are on a bit of a fact-finding mission here, and we have some big facts now 🙂
I know agility is an emotional sport and we all look at the things that didn’t go right… but overall, as an outside and full-caffeinated eye: I see a MASSIVE improvement in every way and one kryptonite that she needs to learn about.
So first, the good stuff:
Engagement on the line. Ability to hold the stay with engagement. The fastest I have seen her on her releases and immediate engagement on the releases. SUPER fast on the lines.The only thing that bit you? She doesn’t know how to run past people, she finds it very distracting. She told us that when she couldn’t run past the instructor on the teeter, and she rammed the point home in all 3 runs here – running past people moves way up on the Kryptonite chart, higher than food smells right now. Note the 2nd run – all good til she had to do the tunnel-ring crew discrimination – she chose ring crew. Oops! (Side note – check out the way-too-big response from the ring crew person, it is both weird and hilarious, and that might be part of the reason why Zippie struggles with that: People are WEIRD and she is not wrong about that.)
>>I think you’ll say that I should have gotten her more aroused – we should have jogged out across the field
Yes, totally can, but she was an engaged girlie – the long walk was not the issue, imo.
>>Second run I think I was even more discombobulated juggling the leash, the toy, a last treat, and the startline right at the gate, but thank goodness easy straight line to the tunne—oh, guess not. But she recovered faster and did Tunnel Jump Jump then we ran to the exit. Ok, that was a little better.>>
Ring crew distraction.>>I think I lost her near the end (and only briefly) because long gentle curving lines are NOT WHAT WE PRACTICE EVER which is a huge pet peeve I’ll probably go to my grave with (and without a Q in Nov JWW). But that’s for another day.>>
I don’t think it was the long line, it was the struggle to avoid the stuff outside the ring (people, etc) without obstacles right there and without you in front of her. And yes – I agree 10,000% that you need her in classes where she takes the front side of jumps in extension on long gorgeous lines because she needs to learn that skill and she needs to feel the fun of running in extension. Backside and threadles and wraps are interesting but truly not needed for dogs running in Novice. (For example: I have 3 novice inexperienced dogs and they are working on fast line skills with some turns thrown in – very few backside or threadles).
>>I think in all 3 runs I could have led out, or taken a deep breath before starting as she wasn’t going anywhere, and I think I’ll try that tomorrow (taking a breath after leash off and allowing her to shake if she needs to). >>
Yes you can totally do that! But again, you did nothing wrong and she did nothing wrong… we just need to work on that big piece of Kryptonite!
>>I think it may be a little easier tomorrow as the classes will be larger, and it won’t feel so rushed, and all the courses tomorrow I can start from the marked start line and do a big circle around to the exit.>>
Since she is not likely to have watched the video about ignoring ring crew overnight 🙂 try to plan all of your runs to stay as far from ring crew as possible and run for the exit before she has to turn back to pass that big distraction. Set her up to have success there and if she struggles, just recognize it as currently-unaddressed Kryponite and call her and run the other way.
>>I am really happy with the start line engagement tho, she’s really looking up at me and I love it!
YES! THIS IS A MAJOR SHIFT! Love it!!!
And speaking of fast lines with people distractions… I see that Argus is offering beginner flyball classes. You should consider that 🙂 You might never want to play flyball, but the training is incredibly value:
– learning to run independent lines in extension and without the momma
– learning to ignore ALL sorts of distractions (food, people, dogs, noise, etc) and focus on ‘the job’ (My food driven papillon successfully ignored ring-side, nose level pepperoni pizza at this first tournament!)Ball drive not required and tug drive not required, and the classes are not noisy LOL – but so much fun to be had!!
Keep me posted on how today goes and let me know if she reveals any more kryptonite 🙂
TracyGood morning!
>>What week do we cover human chill? I think I need a remedial course
The trick to chill will be standing still or moving slowly, and counting to 3 in your head slowly while waiting to see what he does 🙂 I am sensing Agility U #TeamNoChill merch this summer.
>>I’m a bit unclear on what the difference is between that and remote reinforcement? Are they interchangeable?
The cookie-free pattern games are an element of remote reinforcement – the difference between the pattern game and the volume dial tricks is that with the pattern games we are allowing the dog to offer engagement as a way of cuing us to cue the pattern trick.
The cookie-free pattern games and the volume dial games are not interchangeable in the moment, but are both good tools to have in the toolbox – the pattern game is used as you move from the entry to the ring to the start line, if you see he needs to assess the environment. If you see he needs to get more aroused (or less aroused) then the volume dial games might be the go-to in that moment.
So just like the cookie pattern games – we start it, yes, with a cue (get it cookie or the well-loved trick) but then we wait – when he offers engagement, we cue the same well-loved trick and praise as we are moving to the line. Then you wait – he offers engagement, then we cue the trick again. Now it is possible that he never looks away and that is great!
The volume dial doesn’t wait for any offered engagement and doesn’t really allow the dog to assess the environment – instead, we just cue a bunch of tricks in a row.
On the video, he was not really needing to assess the environment, so he did really well! In a more difficult environment, you let him look away, then when he looked back – cue that happy fast heeling that he loves. Then after a step or two, get quiet again and let him look away.
For the pattern games, try not to mix in a lot of different tricks – we want it to be a well-loved trick that he can predict, rather than anything unpredictable at that point.
Since he was quite perfect here, add a little distraction action – go someplace else, or put something different/weird in the environment, and see how it goes! Keep me posted!
Tracy
Good morning!
>>Exit wing is what I was thinking. So you don’t think there would be a need for either a different, or an additional verbal, to tell the dog after landing to do a sharp right turn (in this example) and go back across the plane of the jump versus not doing that (ie just a basic backside slice)? (I add my turn command to say turn away from me after taking the jump and go back across the plane on the exit side but it is one I am wondering about)>>
So you mean the difference between a backside push where the handler does a FC on the landing side to head back where they came from, for example, versus something like a German turn (backside push slice to a wrapped blind cross exit) where dog and handler are running forward past the takeoff side.
You can absolutely add another verbal – such as the push verbal then a wrap exit verbal for the German – this is going to be necessary when you are way behind the dog for example, When you are ahead and able to handle it? No need 🙂 And for the turns where you stay on landing side? We can handle it and add a name call, or you can use directionals as well if your position is really far away.
>>would you be relying on the direction of your motion to add that additional information to tell the dog whether to go back across the plane of the jump on the exit wing versus not on landing?>>
If I am really visible to the dog? Yes. If I am miles away? Nope, I would add more verbals in that moment.
So basically at that stage is becomes compound cues: backside plus exit directional but that is really only important if your position is waaaay out of the picture. So far we have not seen the need for separate, distinct verbals on normal courses here or in Europe.
Really great session here!! Sometimes the Advanced is even easier because of the motion. It looks like she didn’t even have any questions 🙂 YAY!
And even in a small space, your energy was great! Both of my young dogs just came running over to watch the video, for real!>>warmed up each side with just a single wrap.
That was good, it set the tone for the session.
>>Watching the video i notice I am late with every command other than ‘tunnel’. >>
Yes, you can be sooner with the wrap verbals – as soon as you see her nose appear from the tunnel exit, start it. My guess is that your timing will be better when you can take this outside, because you will have more room to get her name and then the verbal out (she will have more room too, more speed, which makes it harder for her to respond correctly because SPEEEEEED is so fun 🙂 )
The only other thing to add to this is 2 tunnels in a row: tunnel, tunnel, then wrap. That way she is not learning the pattern of tunnel-wrap, she is listening for cues. Plus, tunnel-tunnel makes it a little harder to gather the collection for the wrap!
>>Have a couple of contacts questions for you if you don’t mind.
I love obsessing on contact training!
>>For teaching running whose method do you you follow?
I follow a combination of Jordan Biggs (she teaches her method on her site, on Clean Run, and here on Agility U), the European instructor of RDW whose name is escaping me right now because I have not had enough coffee (3 names, it will come to me shortly) and my own training twists because no method for RDW works for all dogs 🙂 So I have used ideas from them, put my now spin on it and stolen some flyball ideas because we do a LOT of back foot targeting for flyball box turns!
I also made up my own way of fading the targets used and bringing into the NFC ring at trials, because I am a weirdo hahaha
So the 3 young dogs all have a RDW and they al had slightly different approaches to it.
>>How would you teach a 2o2o these days? the nose touch method or something else? I don’t think I want to do nose touch, I want to get a more neutral back position relative to the ground than I have gotten with the nose touch given part of the focus with it is front feet really close to the end of the board.>>
Nose touch-ish 🙂 The old school nose touch has really fallen out of favor – people say all sorts of things about it being physically harmful to the dogs but that is simply not true. I think it has fallen out of favor for other reasons 🙂 The initial back position is a great weight shift and then can transition to a neutral position.(FYI – running contacts are FAR HARDER on the dog than the 2o2o training, because of all the repetition on the actual contact)
However, most of us just don’t want to spend that much time with the actual nose touching the target or ground anymore, or trying to maintain it LOL!
So I have the dogs target something on the ground with a head bob, to provide the focal point, weight shift, and to develop the criteria. I don’t have the dog actually touch it, and they don’t need to touch it a thousand times 🙂 And then I use a lot of travel plank to help teach all of the independence. Then it goes onto the contact, with back chaining (I leave the target in for a long time). I used this method in teeter training for the dogs big enough to do a 2o2o on a teeter (which has also fallen out of favor without any evidence why, other than people like to rip the dogs off the teeter before letting them get into position and then spend a lifetime fighting about criteria LOL!)
Hope that helps! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>darn! location is do-able but timing is off, i’ll be going earlier in the summer.
i do have mid July on my calendar for Argus tho (hope that trip is still happening?)>>Bummer about the midwest but the July trip to Argus is still on! I don’t know what the topics will be, but I know we will be there 🙂
>>after next week’s final live class, how long will we have to submit video?
May 20th is the last day for videos.
>>After that we will keep practicing on our own and will be back for MP3! I am having so much fun training in these classes.
I am so glad you are having fun!!! Yay!!! And the MP3 registration should be posted next week 🙂
>>Leo is my second agility dog, my first BC was a puppy 10 years ago, and in retrospect she was asked to learn how to jump and organize herself at the same time we were both learning handling maneuvers, and there were many years of frustration involved. I’m so glad to be breaking it all down into smaller pieces this time ’round!>>
Yes, totally agree – it is her generation that taught us that we were doing a lot of things that were frustrating or stressing the dogs. Now we are doing things very differently with Leo’s generation and listening to him and his cohorts, to make sure they are happy and having a great time while learning 🙂
Tracy
Hi! No worries about the instant focus object, you don’t need it near the ring. The engagement games are more important 🙂 send updates about how it all goes!
TracyHi!
>>Thank you for the footage of HSM! She does look worried by the faux ring gating for sure. While I see she’s able to do the cookie free spins, how do you decide how long to work that session before taking the leash off and then going for the remote reinforcer?>>
I figured folks would enjoy a realistic looking demo 🙂
I do it several times til either the dog starts offering engagement/ignoring distractions, or til they just can’t… meaning they either don’t offer engagement or are very slow to offer (high latency).
If they are struggling, I might ask for a welcomed volume dial trick and see if they can then offer engagement. Or, I might move further from the distraction.
If I can’t get any engagement, I don’t run the course – just run out for cookies 🙂And also I don’t freak out, it is more about asking my teammate (the dog) a series of questions and if he answers “I can’t” then I either help or I take him out of the situation.
>>I think I tend to panic in situations and either pull back and give up or start to throw the kitchen sink at him.>>
Be chill enough to let him answer your questions one at a time 🙂
Tracy
Good morning!
She did well here! I love practicing this with the baby dogs because I think it translates well to the ring as you saw in her FEO runs:
>> I’m not sure if that is because she thinks we are playing the stay game or if she truly just wants to get on with it. Maybe a combo of both!>>
Probably both. She might recognize the context and is predicting how to get the game started, in a VERY good way 🙂
On the video: Not a lot of very specific feedback for you here. She seemed to have no questions about the process: leash on, leash off, trick, line up, all good! She was in complete focus mode even with a whole lotta reinforcement behind her.
My feedback is this: take it on the road 🙂 And add some Kryptonite at home (ghost chickens! I know it is the chicken gate and ghost people, but I like the idea of ghost chickens a lot too haha). Adding distractions in new environments like the training field, or adding that kryptonite at home will help solidify this toolbox.
My guess is that her order of festivities will end up being something like: tricks, then engaged chill, then a couple of tricks right before she goes into the ring… then all business from the ring entry to the start line like you were practicing on some of the reps here: to the line, leash off, line up, you lead out. We can always mix it up as her career develops but that seems to be something that works beautifully for both of you 🙂
>> I did include the clipping the leash and getting a treat again for the end of the agility run.>>
That is great, because we want her to understand that she cannot stay in the ring when her turn is over and getting the leash back on is a good thing!
>>I’ve have also been playing the pattern game of cookie with her as soon as we go out the door to train. She’s very excited about training of course and had got into a habit of going into overarousal right away.>>
Wow! Ghost people! Yes, definitely smart to work the pattern games for this to eliminate the rehearsal of chasing ghost chickens haha and to moderate the arousal. And you can also use this for the instant focus game (I would have her on leash for it so she cannot run the fence).
>>It’s probably a great rehearsal for the ring too, because more than likely she will exhibit that same overaraousal lol!>>
It is DEFINITELY a great rehearsal for the ring. I don’t know if she will exhibit the same arousal level because you have set a completely different reinforcement history in the ring, but you are smart to recognize it as something to change that will help at home and in the ring.
Great job!!!
TracyYes, 8″ was good! I think the angled bars threw her for a loop – the distances were the same as the straight grid but the angles make it look so different that she was like WHAT THE HECK hahaha
Hi!
This is going well!! Yes, part of the challenge with this game is sorting out what the dogs need in terms of timing 🙂 You can put out cones or markers along the sides to help get a visual of his location, relative to your timing.
He is doing really well with the transition from extension to collection! Yay! So as you sort out the timing, use your wrap verbals – I think part of his questions early on was about you being silent at :16 and :24, for example. He was well on his way to committing but second guessed himself because things were so quiet 🙂
At :31, he was correct to go to the backside (and considered it at :37), good job rewarding him – there was too much motion towards the center of the bar in your running line. You can change the position of the start wing (putting it more in line with the wrap wing) so it is easier for you to run straight while also staying along the outer edge of the wrap wing.
You were really getting the timing going – the last several reps have the commitment and the nice turns!! I think 1:10 and 1:14 were my favorite timing reps for him, and 1:25 and 1:34 were good but a little late for his needs.
And on this game, you can also send to the start wing so you are ahead of him for the transitions – it makes it easier to see where he is LOL!!
>>. I’m planning to take Leo and visit family near Chicago/Wisconsin/Michigan this summer; do you have any workshops planned in that part of the country?>>
FUN!!!! I will be in Quad Cities (the intersection of Iowa and Illinois) in mid-August – it is maybe 3 hours from Chicago? Let me know if that is in the general vicinity and I will get the host’s contact info to you – I would love to see you and Leo!!!
Tracy
Good morning!
Totally agree that he is doing OK here LOL! He was great here, hitting a home run on the very first rep!! Then after an easy tunnel rep and more speed… he nailed it again.
And he nailed it again when you added the race tracks! At 1:02, when you deceled for the wrap of the wing, you turned away from the wing too soon and it pulled him off of the line.
And nailed it each time.That is wildly unusual with young dogs, usually we see them blast off to the straight line tunnel at least once LOL!! He was able to read all the cues, and you did a lovely job keeping your feet straight towards the tunnel entry you wanted and not rotating towards him. He seemed to understand to put himself into the tunnel, and did not seem to be waiting for additional cues or help. SUPER!
You were staying in motion but not moving fast yet, so now you can start to add more speed. On the last one at 1:42, he looked at you like. “I GOT THIS, YOU CAN RUN MORE” LOL!! So you can go to a jog now – keep everything else the same. And if he is fine with that, you can go to a slow run and we will keep building it up from there.
Great job! And I am sure the horses are happy to keep providing distractions 🙂
TracyGood morning!
Yes, she was great with the baby level so moving to the advanced level was good!!.
Looking at the straight line grid, 2 ideas for you:
– she is getting bigger and bigger in her stride (this is GOOD!!) so give her one more foot on the distance between jumps. I feel like we have been looking for that sweet spot for distance and it is slightly different each time, as her skills build up. When last we saw her do a jumping game, the distance was a 4.5″ feet and she looked good. But in this grid, it looks too short 🙂 because she is scrunching herself up, so you can try it at 5 feet or 5.5 feet so she can extend.– she did well with the stationary reward as a target. So now, you can go to slowly dragging the toy 🙂 That will continue to get her head down and nice form, with great balance. Start with the toy where you had it here in this session (pretty far from the 3rd jump) and when you release her, drag it forward as you walk forward.
She clearly thought the angles bars were a big challenge – either leaping 2 and 3 together, or sitting back and not releasing with power. She was getting the idea by the last 2 reps and was more confident, you did a great job building up her confidence on that! You can give her a little more distance here too, and back chain it (starting her between jumps 2 and 3, then between 1 and 2) like you did with the straight line of jumps.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>> Suddenly left turns look better. Hmmm.
Ha! She likes to keep ups guessing LOL! I think it is entirely possible that she was looking at somethin out there on the right wraps – she was not in a hurry back to you after landing, and her head was pointingaway towards something.
I think this session went SUPER well. And yes, th eleft wraps looked lovely – you did a great job cuing them and she was driving riht back to you (nothing to look at on that side LOL!) You were a shade early with the rotation on the first rep but you were great with all of the rest. And she is reading the wraps really well: shifting to the wrap wing side of the bar, collecting, turning her head, etc.
When switching to the right wraps, move the cones a little further away so you have room to run – the pressure of the cones were pushing you in too much towards the bar at :26 and on the reps after that – and it might have been contributing to her rounder lines on that side? That way you can stay outside the wing and face forward a bit longer like you did on the left wraps, rather than pushing in towards the bar. But I really think she was looking at something on those right wraps, so you can flip the setup next time and see how she does!
Great job here!!
TracyGood morning!
Glad you had a moment of good weather!!
On the jump grids – they are overall looking really good! Definitely watch her stay behavior, as it is changing her jumping on these (because there is no time to recover from a weight shift forward or a broken stay). The set point looks good except for the 2nd rep where she was a little forward before the release – she had to rock back and it got her a little off balance.
For the striding grid – she is better when she is closer to jump 1, in terms of balance through the shorter distances on the first couple of jumps (like when she is closer on the last rep)/ When she is further away, she is shorter on her landings, meaning her front feet land close to the bar. I prefer the European style of starting the dogs really close for her, as opposed to the American style of further back. And double check her stay before each release – she stood up and shifted forward on the 2nd to last rep and it changed her jumping arc.
The circle grid was definitely hard, the distances were really awkward for her. I am not up to date with how Susan Salo uses this grid but you might want to shorten the distances so she is in collection a bit more for now. Has she done bending grids? More of those might help smooth this one out. I build up to these type of grids from the minny pinny games, which go from bouncing to striding.
For the tunnel threadles – yes, definitely keep moving towards the tunnel entry you want but also – that refresher where you broke it down to just the tunnel was very helpful 🙂 It has been a while since we have asked for that skill, and all of the games like this so far have been all about the tunnel in front of her. So for the next session, start with the tunnel threadle warm up to pump up the skill – be certain to NOT turn your feet towards her though (like you did on some of the successful reps, like the last rep), keep you feet facing and moving towards the threadle entry of the tunnel, like at :24, even if it is just at a walk for now.
And also, as you add the wings, you can use your wing verbal to help her know what is next. The left/right soft turn verbals can predict the regular tunnel entry, and a wrap verbal on the wing can predict the threadle is coming in this scenario. So as you cue the wrap, wait for her to respond (while you keep moving towards the correct tunnel entry) and when she exits the wrap with focus towards you – then you can add the threadle verbal/arm. That will help her realize that sometimes it is NOT the tunnel in front of her 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
