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Hi! Darn cat! But it was a great opportunity to work acclimation! We can’t control the environment but we can teach him to control his response. The pattern game snapped him out of the cat distraction and right into engagement: AWESOME!!!
On the sequence:
1-2-3 was fast and powerful.
At :52 and 1:22 you hung back and then sent to the wrap on 4 (getting really ahead to the tunnel). I am curious to see how the turn would differ if you drove up to 4 then decelerated ahead of him, then turned and sent to the tunnel. I thought his turns looked good (especially at 1:22) but it would be fun to see if getting up there right to the jump is faster.That would also change the next line – when he exited the 5 tunnel, he didn’t really drive past you to 6-7 in full extension. If you got close to 4 and sent to 5, then ran ahead to 6-7, I think he would chase you with more speed up that line (you’ll still get the blind after it :))
Blind at :59 was actually a little early but he read it really well! Hooray for good commitment! I thought it was perfect at 1:31.
So if you get a chance to run it again, try those 2 spots differently then we can compare what is faster!
Great job here, especially with the cat!!
TracyHi! Great list! And yes, writing it down does make us have to really think!
A couple of ideas:
>> I do not have a backside wrap around the wing I have just been using body and feet position and motion for this. I may add round later I thought about push dig dig and push check check. 2 cues I am not sure I like the idea but having a lot of verbals is a bit overwhelming as well.>>
I used to have 2 cues (push then the directional) and Voodoo told me it was late late late. So I went to one cue (dig) and he gets the info a lot sooner.
>>Weaves: Weave repeated until performance is completed.
Be sure he can do it when yoU are quiet too, so you have time to breathe LOL!
>>Tunnel: Tunnel tunnel with physical turn cues coming as dog is entering and verbal when dog is inside tunnel.
I suggest doing the verbal cue and the physical cue when the dog is still 3 to 6 feet before the tunnel. They need to see and hear it all before they are in the tunnel, otherwise they can’t process it til they are out of the tunnel.
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Thanks for the update 🙂>> The judge used alot of wingless single bar jumps turning to obstacles and off obstacles with angles. Mookie only knocked one bar in each of his 3 standard runs. I am trying to figure out if it was from my late verbal cues to turn or my connection or both.>>
Both? Or getting acclimated to the footing? Or wingless jumps are harder to see? Or a little out of condition because of Covid? Or all of the above 🙂 If you have them on video, freeze the moment he takes off for the jumps where he hit the bar – and see what you are doing in that moment.
>>Should I practice with wingless single bar jumps weekely thrown in here and there??>>
Yes, based on what you’ve experienced in training and at the trial, the boys will need to see more wingless jumps because they are getting popular again.
>I know I should add to Mookie’s book of rules that I should give extra connection to wingless single bar jumps >
YES! A good reminder!!
>>Should I practice his zig zag grid with wingless jumps??
Yes, good idea, as long as you have 5 foot bars and he has enough room.
>>On a happy note I did 2 blindcrosses one out of a tunnel and one out of a tunnel by a jump and was successful for our second Q in Masters Jumpers.>>
YAY! Congrats!!!!!
>>This was only our third trial back since COVID and 7th day total trialing for this year so far.
It will take time for me to get back in the grove that Mookie never left >>
>>I need to work on my timing of verbal cues and connection as he speeds by.>>Yes, it is going to take us all a while to get back to being comfortable!
>>As for Buddy if I stay super connected he does whatever I ask and does not knock bars.
He is too thoughtful to knock a bar and reads blindcrosses and backsides nicely.
Buddy did great with all 3 sequences.>>Yay for Buddy! Sounds like he is doing really well!
>>He is environmentally challenged and I worked hard at the trial to acclimate him to the environment with your games. He did struggle as he is very afraid of men but tolerated them in his environment with at least one eye on them at all times.>>
Keep working the transition to trials games, all of them – they will come together to help him out 🙂
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>> We havent been doing weaves for very long and I am not convinced she understands them yet in spite of her successes. I want her to be tackling 4 poles with more conviction before I advance too much.>>
True, it takes a while to cement the understanding for the poles.
>> These days we can tug and chase the toy around equipment. BUt He was shuting down. When further away he plays these games happily but as soon as he thinks agility might be involved he shuts down. Very fine line between where he is happy playing and how close can get.>>I think it is important to be able to play and interact around the equipment, but maybe those particular games had too much pressure? Maybe try simpler things like asking him to put his chin in your hand for a cookie, etc – things that can help the arousal level around obstacles.
Also, the reinforcement might need to be different – do you cue him to take off for a run as well? I believe the freedom to interact with the environment and run around is very reinforcing for him!
>> Then attempt to do the courses but I kept losing track and sending him the wrong way – common theme I think I got lost multiple times with all my dogs.
Aha! Do you walk the courses several times before you run them? Getting lost is frustrating to the dogs.
On the sequence:
Keep moving at 4 for the send, you were standing still at 2:00 And 2:22. Being entirely stationary is a big collection cue so you don’t want to send him straight past you in extension. More closer to the tunnel #3 so you can be moving when he exits it.
>> I had issues with him getting angry on the dig but worked oout he was happier when I was further away from the jump – so need to remember this and work on getting closer.
Is the dig the wrap? (Hard to hear). I don’t think it was position near the jump, but I think it was clarity of cue.
He got mad at 2:05 – as he exited the tunnel, you were A bit sideways, stationary, a bit far from the jump and pointing forward so he didn’t know what to do. He offered a backside after that, which is rewardable because you were indicating with your outside arm so it turned your shoulders/feet to the backside line. You looked a little clearer at 2:27 (closer and more connected) but he went to the middle jump – I am not sure if you wanted him to turn tight there? The cues look the same so it might be a bit confusing for him (yes, the verbals might be different, but motion will help support and clarify that for him).
Sequence 2 – you were clearer on the wrap at 4 (Closer and more connected) but keep moving – turns lose clarity if extension is also cued when you stand still. So on the lines where you want him to run in extension, move in and out of them rather than send with an arm. For the tighter turns, you can use deceleration or standing still to help cue those – I think that will really help him see the difference.
Keep moving up the closing line on both sequences – you were not really moving so he was not sure if he should turn or not, so he pulled a rail on both ending lines.
>> Fusion – introduced her to an increased height on sequences for the first time and saw an increase in her arousal level although highly distracted by something on the ground. Reminding me that key emphasis is working on her focus – can just imagine her having a party at nationals with six rings close together and just ropes separating….
The sniffing distraction could be a response to the added difficulty and stress of it – so you can gradually introduce more height: rather than all jumps getting taller, just raise the height of one jump on an easy line. Then a week later, raise another… and so on. When is Nationals? She is a bit young to have 2021 Nationals as a goal because so many pieces need to be both trained AND rehearsed in trials before then.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! The course is in the image is more of a tunnel threadle than bypass. Bypass is ‘take nothing til otherwise told’ (bleh, my dogs hate them lol!) so if I used the bypass at the jump before the tunnel then my dogs would theoretically go to the left lead and chase my line, taking the tunnel out of the picture entirely. The tunnel threadle cue is more accurate for them – that first tunnel entry isn’t exactly on their line (it would be a ‘get out’ cue if I wanted it) but it is visible enough that my threadle cue should tell them to go directly to the other side of the tunnel. It is a grey area for sure but because they would have to change leads and turn away to find it, the tunnel threadle fits it best (a regular ‘tunne’ cue does not have a lead change like that).
Hope that makes sense, I am coffee deprived hahaT
Good morning!
>> Are you sure I can’t convince you to move to New Orleans and let me cook for you? Your feedback is just so awesome and detailed!>>
Thanks! Mmmm…. cooking… i am food motivated lol
>>I’m very glad you brought up the stay because this is something I need accountability on. It’s been evolving. >>
Stays are a source of challenge for a lot of handlers!
>>Initially he had A WONDERFUL stay. So good in fact that he often wouldn’t release and would stay there sniffing the ground- which was a major source of frustration and tested just about every skill I had in patience>>
That sounds like a bit of stress, actually, so I am glad he isn’t sniffing!
>>To get around the initial disconnect and failure to release I did a lot of stuff where we didn’t require a stay- start with a wrap or send him through my legs.
That is fine, for when you don’t want to ask for a stay for whatever reason.
>>Now back to the stay. I don’t have a formal position requirement between sit or down. I do feel like it’s a bit easier for me to see when he gets up from a down over a sit, but often I miss that. I try to stay connected on the walk out but like I’m not always seeing it even though I am looking.
As far as release goes.. this is probably where the grey area exists. Starting out if I just said okay (his release word), he was so literal that he wouldn’t take the first obstacle in front of him and would run directly to me, so I started cuing the first obstacle as the release… In all other times (non agility) I use okay and I could see where that would be confusing.>>There are a lot of ways to get a great stay and a lot of opinions on ‘the only way’ – which of course is not true LOL! But the main thing is consistency so the dog can predict what is happening. Lack of consistency will lead to a lot of stress and frustration.
You can cue a position if you think he will absolutely happily give it to you and not move. If not? Let him offer a position. And be connected and lead out and release with clarity (and release before he breaks so that he doesn’t get in trouble for self-releasing and also so you don’t let him self-release and keep running – there is a history of those so you want to dial it back to be able to pump up the reinforcement.
>> Starting out if I just said okay (his release word), he was so literal that he wouldn’t take the first obstacle in front of him and would run directly to me,
Not taking the obstacle in front of him in that situation is a training thing – it doesn’t mean you change the release procedure, it means you train the dog to understand the release procedure.
.>>I have been just so happy that he’s been into the game that I’ve not worked his stay much.
Not working it is fine… but then you can’t ask for it and definitely can’t tell him he is wrong if he break it. Think of it differently: you don’t work the teeter, for example. He seems into it but doesn’t really understand it – would you still ask for it on course, or if you ask for it, tell him he is wrong when he doesn’t do it correctly? I would not ask for it if it has not been trained and clarified 🙂 So – since the start line is a really important thing, I vote for training and clarifying it.
>> Would you just recommend releasing to reward a stay intermittently to keep him successful?
Yes, for the rest of his career including at trials. I throw rewards back, I release the dog back to a reward behind him, and I release forward to the obstacle as well then reward (or run the course). These all have different cues, but that is part of the clarification process. And super short lead outs for now to be able to reward reward reward 🙂
>>I have gotten so many different opinions on releases. You should be completely still, you should be moving, the obstacle can cue the release… no wait it CANT so it’s just all bad. Keep bugging me, I like to people please and be right so I am happy to morph it into whatever he needs.>>
Gathering opinion is good! But then choose what you want to do and be super consistent and clear – if something is not working, the fix is in timing, criteria and rate/placement of reinforcement (not necessarily changing all the things). I personally have no problem with standing still or moving when releasing, because my motion/position while releasing dictates the opening line and I have tried to be really consistent with the release verbal. The obstacle can cue the release if you want, or not. I use a release verbal but whatever you choose – be super consistent. The opinions you have gotten are all about the handling but the key to great stay behavior is all about the dog training.
>>>4-5 – you said ‘jump left’ at 1:00 and 1:41 and 2:15 – he was not sure if it was a wrap or a 180. I think left is the 180 verbal? You used ‘right’ on the 8-9 line in Seq 1).
>>this is where I need a bit of clarity to think what I want my words to mean. It didn’t quite seem like a full wrap to me but not quite a soft turn so I didn’t know what word to use…
Two ways to look at it:
Does he have to super collect to make the turn? If yes, it is a wrap verbal. Also, does he have to come all the way back around the wing really quickly? If yes, use the wrap verbal. Handling doesn’t matter, it is the dog’s behavior that dictates the verbals.>>Check and dig are my right and left wrap cues
Left and right should be my soft turn cues (still work in progress)
Pass is my backside slice
Seek is my backside wrap
Zip is my threadle wrap
Look is my threadle slice
In is my tunnel threadle
Out is to lead change and take an obstacle away from me
GO GO GO means run in extensions mostly straight until I cue you otherwise.>>Good list! Plus obstacle names, right?
>>When I did the verbal training in one of your last courses (not sure which one >_<, I just used the word, however I do want these to apply to like turns off the dw or perhaps out of the tunnel so I feel like the obstacle should also be cue? Maybe that’s the wrong though?>>
I do use the obstacle name (tunnel or dog walk) but then switch to the directional before the dog has to make a decision: for example, the tunnel cue happens as the dog is over or exiting the previous obstacle then the directional happens a solid 6 feet before they enter.
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>I’m also out of town Sat-Tues to visit inlaws (who don’t like dogs. geesh!)>>
What is that? I Cannot process that LOL! (actually my parents don’t really like dogs, except the ones that win things or get on TV, then they think they are OK because they can brag to their friends LOL!!!!
>>With the Jacque pounce it was the middle of the sequence where she was the extension of his line as a distraction. He’s progressed from not trying to go visit when we come in or when we are setting up. Great plan on using the acclimation game. Now she just needs to hold another mini seminar…>>
That makes sense! And it sounds like he is making great progress! And I am sure she will hold more sessions, they look FUN!
Tracy
Hi! All sorts of good backing up here!!!
He had some hesitating in the first part of the video where he would back up but then stop right before putting his back feet on the board. So, start each session doing exactly what you did at 1:56 with him starting on the board (with you a little closer) – then cue him to step off it, then right back onto it. Those were the smoothest reps with stepping right back onto the board and really isolated the backing up nicely! Stay pretty close for now – when you got a little too far away, the hesitation came back a little.
The other thing we want him to do is look down more and not up at you. One thing you can try is having the MM between your feet! So he looks down the whole time 🙂 We will move you out of the position eventually, of course, but the MM between your feet could be a great way to get him to stop looking up at you for now 🙂
Great job!! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi again!
I agree – motion looked really good 🙂 She likes the action! And she is looking straight, which is great. Are you going to do a running dog walk with her?
For the turns – I think the treats were a little close to the board, then she needed a little more connection to get back on. She was also starting to look up at you with the turns, so throw further off the board to help get her looking forward and that also gives her more room to line up to get back on it. And mix in lots of straight reps too to keep her looking forward.
As with the back and forth game (above) – you can raise the board on this one too 🙂 For the turns, you don’t want to raise it a lot but she is definitely ready for a little bit of height.Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
This went really well – she is very confident! I like that she was able to run fast and keep looking straight here. Yay!
If you use big easy-to-find chunks (like cheese balls) she will find things easily in the grass – you can throw the rewards further off the end of the board now too, so get even more speed!>> 1.30 she gets distracted on the board. Looking ofr treats?
I think what happened there was that you tossed the reward but she didn’t see the toss – so she started to looking down at the plank. On the reps after that, you tossed a little later while she was looking forward, so she saw it and then she could race off the plank.
Because it went really well, it is time to raise the plank! Do you have some cinderblocks or low tables? I think you can do this with the plank about a foot off the ground.
Great job!
TracyYes! Showing all turn cues before the dogs enter the tunnel is a big help to getting the ending line. For my big dogs, I need to give the verbal and start the turn while they are about 6 feet away from entering. It really helps!
I think she will really enjoy this with more room and will go even faster 🙂 FUN!T
Hi there!
This was interesting to see as it really tell us about his evolution. Over the winter, he really loved the YES and YAY stuff, it got him pumped up – but now I think he wants more of the facts and less of the woohoo haha! What I mean by that is when he is working, just give the next cue instead of the YES then the next cue – when you yes’d him, he would hesitate a little: “Is there a reward or is there more?” So, I think he has entered the ‘just the facts, ma’am’ stage of course running LOL!So on the sequence – lots of good work! He seems to really know his lines and also know how to use his body. So… I want to see if you can let him rip more 🙂 On the big 4-5-6 pinwheel, send to 5 then get outta there and see if he can find his line and what he does in terms of speed as he chases the next line. No turns cues needed – no right cue, no decel – just send and leave at high speed. A jump verbal is fine. On the runs here, you were going into the pinwheel and decelerating and using your right verbal… but I don’t think he needs it 🙂
Same with the right turn at 8-9: I do think your right verbal was perfect here! But you can play with one step of a send then accelerating away (rather than decel and turn). He was reading it all perfectly, so now we can press our luck and challenge him to let you leave at high speed.
So in a nutshell – let’s compare they really nice turns with the wider giddy up lines and see what the stopwatch says 🙂
The wrap cues at 11 both looked good – it was hard to time the difference because the send versus the spin were starting at different points in the training session. I think the turn on the send was great and if you can leave sooner (don’t wait for him) then he can chase you to the tunnel as fast as he would if you had done the spin (which also looked good). So if you have a chance to run these again, try the wrap with the send and go, and try it with the spin, and we will see what is faster 🙂
I did not time the difference between the first run and the last run because the first run was faster… because you had Nemo. LOL! The 2nd run was all about ignoring Nemo – that is a great skill for trials! But doesn’t make for a good handling comparison LOL! So keep Nemo with you when you want to compare handling, but definitely do sometimes throw in a no Nemo/HH run to help him learn to run without the toy in your hand.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
On the teeter, you can try duct taping a spoon to the underside as the treat holder (super fancy haha!). She did a good job figuring out this game, especially after being a bit nervous at first! For now, move with her up the board – she was doing the recalls by the end but she is a lot more confident when you are moving with her. When she is more and more confident in coming weeks, then you can revisit the stays and recalls – and you’ll see her start to run up the board, which is perfect! One thing to remember in skills training in particular, is to set a timer so that you get a 3 minute session total… then be finished for the day (or maybe try another 2 or 3 minutes several hours later, but still it keeps the total training time low). Border Collies make it easy to train for too long because a lot of them will keep going even when brain and body are tired out. So this was almost 13 minutes of video, which is too many reps and a whole lot of food for her for the same day of training. So resist temptation to keep going – when my timer goes off, I finish up so I don’t overwork the dog (even if it appears the dog will continue). The result of short sessions is that you’ll get more speed and excitement for the skill, plus better learning because the dog is fresh (plus the rest in between allows the brain to cement the learning solidly in place).
The Wingin’ It sequences looked really good! Her commitment is looking developing on both the wings and the tunnel!!!
She had some questions on the starts of some of the reps, mainly because she was facing you (which makes it harder to send her away). Something you can add to make it easier is to start her with a line up position at your side (like a sit, you can use a cookie lure to get her to your side) or a cookie toss back behind you so after she gets it, you both can be facing the right direction before you move. That will make that very first send very smooth.
The right side one-step sending looked strong! And things also went well when you switched to the left side – when you connected to her when she exited the tunnel and then sent to the wing, she was great! If you sent before she exited or without as much connection, she was not as sure about sending (like at 2:06 when you were behind her after the tunnel, for example).
Your FCs back to the tunnel after the wings looked good – you were really emphasizing connection and that set the lines really well. You had one little late one at 2:13, but you recognized that and rewarded her 🙂 The rest looked so lovely and smooth!! Yay!>> As is typical for me, I kind of forgot the sequences that I was supposed to be doing, and may have ended up doing something a little different. >>
I think it was pretty much spot on! And it is about the concepts anyway, not about the exact sequences. You can spread things out a bit more now, to add more challenge.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
Thanks for the update on the transition and verbals games! Sounds like he is doing really well!
>> he just stares at me like I’m nuts>>
All of the dogs do that when we make it hard LOL! If he still does it, you can maybe do half jumping jacks to make it a little easier.
>>I ran it and then studied the video during dinner, then went out to train and rerun.>>
Perfect!!! Love this!
I think the session went well. Some ideas for you:
>>I was actually pretty happy overall with his turns…a little less so with my handling (of course). >>
You were good! I have no big issues with your handling, just ideas as we try to figure out what the fastest lines/cues are for him.
>>I thought on the pinwheel he could have found the line just a little quicker,
Do you mean more extension? If so, then yes – but I think he was collecting in response to your right verbals there. Good boy! I don’t think he needs a right verbal on those, it is a pretty extended line for him and right is a collection verbal (it was perfect for 8-9) here.
Also, you can send and leave more on that, rather than run in and round the line with him – that can get more extension and quickness throughout.>> perhaps turned tighter on 10-11-12,
The collection before the jump was really great. I think you can do the spin sooner so that as he lands and comes around the wing, you are already cuing the tunnel – on the runs here, you were focusing on the takeoff side collection which made the exit to the tunnel late: so he had to hesitate to wait on your cue.
And the other thing is… you can try cuing it sooner and letting him rip more – tell him what you want then leave so you are reconnected sooner and can cue the tunnel sooner… and let him jump a little wider. It is entirely possible that he will be faster like that!
>>and then he checked in with me on the straight line out. I think a little of the problem may be that I had a bumper and he kept looking to see if the bumper was going to be thrown – it’s a little too high value for longer sequences. >>
Yes – he checked in on them except when you were way ahead on the very last one (that was great!) It might be the value of the bumper, but also you were standing up, decelerating, moving it – so try it with the bumper but leaning forward into the run and pumping your arms, with big connection to him – and throw it when you see him look forward.
>> I actually think a piece I missed was that he was a little unsure in the 8-9 turn. I think he does the turn on 8 well, but then isn’t confident about totally committing to 9. He slows down just a bit which I acknowledged by giving him a “yes” to assure him in the rerun.>>
It is a weird line but he did well! At :17, he asked a little question maybe because your left arm was forward and blocking connection there. The send and leave at 1:04 of the rerun looked good on 8, really good! Then as he was heading towards 9, your shoulder closed forward and he looked up at you – so try leaving your left arm locked back and your eyes on his eyes, and see if that clarifies things on that line.
Great job here! You can try those ideas and I would definitely love to see the comparison of very tight versus not as tight on the 11 wraps!
Tracy
