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Hi there! Baby Allie looks great!
Prop – Really good session, concentrating on mechanics! The “get it” (without the yes) is really helping to get her eyes off of you and the value is looking really good. With that in mind – onwards to the next game! You can start the sending games now, she looks ready 🙂
Food bowls: Another really good session, she was beginning to get the flow – this can go longer, so she really gets into the rhythm and then you can delay the timing of your hand movement to drop the cookies til after she offers. I know I almost never tell anyone to do longer sessions but I bet with her, you can go for a solid 2 or 3 minutes to really get her offering. Start the way you did here, fast hands and fast cookies 🙂 Then after a few reps, you can let her make the first step or two back to the bowl on the other side, then you can plop the food into the bowl. And as soon as she is beginning to go back and forth – get the upright involved so she goes back and forth to the bowls with the upright there.
Backing up: This is also going well!
If you are going to stand, you need to lean over so your cookie hand is below her shoulders – that will drop her head and get better hind end use and weight shift. I lean over and put my elbows on my thighs (or sit in a chair LOL)
She was starting to offer it a little!!! You can lure her forward like you did but then leave your hand stationary til she offers stepping back – I think you did that on some of them and she was super! On others it looked like maybe your hand was moving her back, so keep your hand stationary to let her offer, I am pretty sure she will.Drive ahead: very nice! You had a nice quick release to the toy while she is still looking forward! My only suggestion is that while you are holding her, don’t pull back or lift up (although she might be the one lifting up) – the extra opposition reflex is causing her to kind of bend in towards you. So, since it looks like she is VERY keen to go, you can just hold her then let go, that will help keep her straight 🙂 It is possible that you were not pulling back at all and she was just really wanting to go, so just try to keep your hand low LOL!
Onwards to toy races!!! You can add even more distance so you are both moving up the line at high speed like you started at the end and then try to win 🙂Great job on all of these! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Since you mentioned those rear crosses as being your favorite, I made a visual for you:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UlTCzJIOeBSxoenPl_G1_r6DcA1_xFtCuiuSkfPhFnw/edit?usp=sharingYou will need to be further across her rear cross line (fully on the new side) before she gets to her prop. You were close here, but you need to be all the way across it.
I also did a visual for Mike/Karena and Ronan if you want to see their visual too 🙂 It is in their thread. Rear crosses are hard!
Strike a pose is going really well, just a couple of little mechanics suggestions:
Your target arm can be more extended away from you, elbow locked out so your upper arm is not touching you so it is the way out with daylight between your upper arm and your torso, more like 113. And then – leave it there :), don’t move it – you moved it towards you as she got closer to you
Good job catching your feeding position wit hthe treats – when you drew her across with the treat like you did at :40, it was perfect position for future serps and threadles.She also did well with the toy – it was CLEARLY more exciting but she still hit her target (even with the occasional thought about the toy first LOL!)
Strike was right word with toy, what cookie word were you using? It was hard to hear but a cookie marker would be useful there.
Since this is going well, you can start to get the toy or treats to the ground. YOu can start with an empty food bowl to then drop the treats in from above. Or, place the toy on the ground if you think she will have success ignoring it until after she hits the target 🙂 That will begin to let us get even fancier with serps and threadles.
On your handling combo games:
These look really good! These were all FCs but you can totally do post turns, spins, etc. Do you have a taller cone or bucket, so she can bend her head/neck more?
She was GREAT about not trying to just go to the toy 🙂
I think her left turns were very strong here. he 1st 2 reps were to the right –
1st rep was good. On the 2nd rep at :13 you were backing up a little and also she was happier on your left in this game, so she was trying to get to your left side- good job geting the connection!
Turning to her left was MUCH tighter – next time start with the right arm to left arm FCs that you eneded with here, then go back to left arm to right arm and see if she has better turns to her right. Maybe she just needed to see the concept of the game.Great job! When you have more room, add in the fancier stuff.
Tracy
Hi!
He is definitely right on track here. I think the biggest thing for this game is to find treats that he does not have to chew 🙂 He chews each of these treats between 5 and 10 times (yes, I count, I am a nut lol) and what happens is the efficiency of the training slows: in order to eat these treats, he has to lift his chin and chew chew chew chew chew – that is a long time in puppy years LOL!!! And he forgets for a second what he was doing, as it interrupts the flow. So now that the behavior is established, he doesn’t need to hear the treats anymore – so go to small, soft treats that he can basically swallow without much or any chewing. It sounds like a tiny detail but it will be important when establishing loops and stuff like that.>>Let me know if I should keep backing up further and further.
Nope, no need to back up further – we have reached the distance away from the barrel you want to be while he is offering. The next step is to cue the behavior, which means you should go to the Turn And Burn game (introduced last week).
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
The leash I used here is from someone in Florida, I can find out where (I bought it second-hand). I did the leash=cookie with my Rat Terrier, who only wanted food at trials: at the end of the run, he ran to the leash on cue, then I opened the loop up, he stuck his head through it – then we ran out for cookies 🙂 Worked like a charm for AKC! I don’t have any video because he passed away from old age before we all had cameras on our phones.T
Hi! It worked, thanks!
Looking at the session setup here, at the beginning you were doing:
left – get it (placed on the line) – good boy – hand (to reset, but sometimes with the noise) – left – get it
You can get it a little smoother by eliminating the ‘good boy’ between the get it and the hand markers – he didn’t know what to do in that moment 🙂 So after he eats the ‘get it’ treat, you can go directly to hand. It was hard to tell if you were feeding on all of the ‘hand’ markers or just resetting him to send again – and he was looking at you a lot in that transition, so he was not totally clear either. So you can feed after the hand reset, take a breath, then clearly cue the left. It can be ‘loopy’ but you don’t have to go fast 🙂
After that, there was a lot incorporated into the session (wraps on one jump, wraps on 2 jumps, backsides, different handling, etc) without planning in between – so things got ‘looser’ in terms of mechanics, verbals, etc
>> I also need to have a clearer idea on what handling I want to do so that I can get it done efficiently and use the correct bloody verbal.>>
Yes, that is all the planning 🙂 You were saying hand but not really moving, it was more of a stopped hand delivery. So plan the sessions more – choose the behavior you want, plan how you will cue it, which marker and placement and type of reinforcement. So if you want to work on driving out of the backside FC, you can decide where you want to stand, how to send, what verbal, when to move. Then which marker & type of reinforcement. Then you can do a couple. Then assess – if you like it and want to do something else, plan the something else, giving the dogs a break so that when they come back, you can be efficient and clear rather than working it out on the fly 🙂
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
The pop up laundry basket is perfect – easy to pack and you can also use it for laundry LOL!!!T
Hi!
If you feel that it will take too long to get tugging on the leash, you can use it differently: Get him to put his head through the leash loop or harness so you can leash him up – then go to the food outside the ring. I do that with my dogs that want to work for food so the leash takes on value, maing the end of the run much easier 🙂
TracyGood morning! He did really well here!!
A couple of ideas for you, small details to make things even sooner:
Right at the beginning, when you were putting the stuff down on the chair and walk away, he tried to grab it 🙂 You can set it on something higher so it is less easy to grab for now – and reward him for resisting temptation and walking away from it (have a cookie hidden in your pocket for that). He was good about ignoring it afterwards, but that initial moment will help him bring self-control.
He was excellent about driving to the toy at the end of the line with your get it! Now… mix in turning away from the toy because I think he might have gone to it based on how visible it was: so sometimes you say “get it” and he can grab it and sometimes you keep handling and he should come with you and not get the toy. I have demos of that sprinkled in throughout the videos, because we don’t want the dogs to go to the toy (or leash) just because they see it 🙂 To help set him up for success, don’t have the toy on the ground – put it on the chair on that line or up high on something so he might be tempted but cannot actually grab it or run around with it 🙂 You can use your remote reinforcement marker when you do want him to have it. Start this on one jump – it might be challenging 🙂
He had a little trouble giving the toy back – I love his tugging but things are easier if he gives it back faster :)To get the toy back, trade for a treat (from the red chair is perfect) very consistently so you can have more efficient sessions (lure this at first if needed – say the out then show a cookie but not at the same time – so out predicts cookie then we move it further away)
He did a great job with the catch for the stays in front of the jump! You can now add in turning yourself to the direction you want to go, gradually, so he lets you set up the lead out you want while still holding the stay – plan it based off of what your ideal position would be on a lead out. I like to be facing the way I need to run before I release the dog (so I can stay ahead for at least one obstacle LOL!)
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! I am so glad you are enjoying it!!!
I agree – it was really hard to train the dogs if we couldn’t have a toy or treat in our hand or moving… and I admit that I didn’t always have specific answers other than “train self-control” LOL!!!! So now I think we are on the road to very specific answers, plus we are not training it with our youngsters to set the conditioning we want. That has really reduced frustration in training, and increased understanding and drive. Fun! I am sure we will continue to fine tune this stuff – the dogs and handlers in this class are teaching me a LOT!Have fun 🙂
TracyGood morning!
The video is marked private, can you reset to unlisted so I can give you more ideas 🙂
>>. I also need to have a clearer idea on what handling I want to do so that I can get it done efficiently and use the correct bloody verbal.
Yes – planning 🙂 So much planning LOL!!!
>>You said in your video demo, that you use this to reward a fast drivey and tight wrap. What would you do if the dog did not turn as tight as you wanted or wasn’t quite as drivey as you had hoped?
Reward anyway 🙂 If the dog is turning, and the dog likes the reinforcement you are presenting, this reinforcement procedure is what will build the speed and drive. Consistent, predictable, valuable reinforcement will get the speed and drive. If the dog is not as tight or fast as you like and you withhold reinforcement – then you are actually punishing the dog (negative punishment) so that gets the dog to be slower or lose drive. This is especially true if there is handling involved, where we need to be very timely in order to get the turn correct – if the dog is incorrect due to handling, and we don’t reinforce, then the dog is going to get confused or frustrated.
>>Also, I tried to always give the treat when he followed the hand, but do you give another when they line up for the next even if you try to keep it a continuous loop? Hope that makes sense.>>
I probably need to see the video to give a good answer here, but when using a treat – I use the shhhhh marker, use the hand to perhaps line up for the next rep, then deliver the treat. It happens as one continuous motion after the shhhh marker, so I don’t use a 2nd marker before delivering the treat. If I need to line the dog up for hte next rep differently, I would use another reward or different marker but it depends on the loop.
Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! Some ideas for you:
>>Yes. She ran to her lotus ball, ate the treats, and then started sniffing. I called her, she kept sniffing, I went up to her clapping and happy, kept sniffing, so I got out a higher value treat and stuck it in front of her face and she finally started nibbling and followed me.
Interesting! So either something was REALLY distracting there or she just wasn’t her normal self. Was her run pretty successful? It sounds like it was all normal and good, then she just couldn’t ignore the smells for whatever reason.
>> I would not run away to hide because I think that would elevate stress. Besides, there is no place in the room to hide, I would have to exit out a door. Not something I want to do when I’m trying to get her happy and connected.
I agree – we don’t want to add stress by having you disappear.
>>Now she runs short sequences (5-10 obstacles) and runs for her lotus. Perhaps I need to get the treats back on me at the end of a run, and nibble-food her to the start-line again?
Has she been running courses with the emphasis on remote reinforcement, meaning nothing on you, and the lotus ball outside the ring at the end? It might be unrelated, but it is also good to still have food in the ring to reinforce the ‘stuff’ on course 🙂 You can slather reinforcement everywhere 🙂
>>Interesting question. I wish I had a video. To the best of my recollection, she basically looked at the toy (what, no food?) and checked out then. She has responded positively to toys and stayed connected in the past, but not consistently.
Sounds like perhaps the toys just didn’t stand a chance to whatever the distraction was that night 🙂
>>When I brought out the super nibble treat and then a loaded lotus, she was able to refocus and work again.
Perfect!
>>We did a short (maybe 8 tossed find-its) at the beginning of class, then half-way through class (it’s an hour class with 3, sometimes 4 dogs) we did another short session like the first one.
Nice, short sessions – so it is unlikely she would be mentally depleted. It is starting to sound like some type of really challenging distraction instead.
>>When we started this class, I only used food. When she got sniffy, the instructor suggested I try toys, so I’ve been alternating and have both treats and toys (and a variety of each) with me each evening. Am I giving her too many choices/variety?
I don’t think there were too many choices, I think it is more of a hierarchy issue: normally, the treats/toys you had were fine and dandy! But there was some sort of invisible distraction that was top of her hierarchy list: Crazy smell? Twisted toe? Noise she heard but you couldn’t? We won’t know – all of those can produce sniffing and can also cause her to not want the toy (lower value in the face of whatever the distraction was).
And sometimes the dogs just are having an ‘off’ night, we don’t really know why, and then it is fine the next time you go back there.
>> I do think she associates agility class with food. At home, I vary treats and toys, though I probably use more treats than toys. In class, I prefer to use treats and the lotus. It’s easier on my body (I can attest to the saying that aging is really not for sissies).
That is perfectly fine! I know of many, many champion agility dogs who are fast and happy – and work ONLY for food in training and trials. She has a good value for toys at home and I think you will be able to get those into classes and trials, but you can also make those new environments incredibly valuable with food 🙂 The lotus ball is a terrific tool because it is both a ball to chase AND a food delivery 🙂 She might like a treat hugger too!
>>Okay, so what do you suggest for Saturday? It will be a small group (4-5 dogs) for 2 hours and we’ll work on sequences that focus on some specific handling skills. The instructor will let me make up sequences if I want so I can stack the difficulty level in Keiko’s favor and make it just fun and games if that’s what I want. She’s been very supportive this way.>>
Sounds like you have a great instructor! Love it! Bring 2 or 3 different levels of food value: all of which are valuable, nothing boring haha! But there should be at least one that is mind-blowingly delicious 🙂 Start with the lower value food rewards to see where her focus is and what the distractions are – short, fun sequences, rewards in the ring, lotus ball. If she struggles, switch to the mind-blowing food rewards. If she doesn’t struggle, have fun and mix in the mind-blowing rewards towards the end or on anything more complicated.
And try to video 🙂
Keep me posted!Tracy
Good morning!
Rear crosses are pretty hard, which is why we are starting them so young (and away from a jump :)) It takes some experimenting to sort out what the dog needs to see – I am glad you were playing with different options and also glad you were rewarding all the things 🙂 Rewarding here was 1000% the correct thing to do because he was reading you correctly 🙂 The adjustment to make here is to cross his line sooner, so he sees you crossing behind him on the rear cross line sooner – ideally you are on the RC line behind his tail or already across it, before he arrives at the prop so he can make the lead change to the new direction. You might need to start him further away from the prop, so you have more time to do this 🙂
And because you are crossing sooner, keep moving forward to help support commitment to his boot 🙂 And you can click for turning the correct direction (no worries is the boot hit is not as perfect – right now the turn can take priority as long as he still goes towards/over the boot, as supported by your line).Since this is entirely a handling exercise, I figure that visuals might help 🙂
I got screenshots of what he was seeing when you were not crossing soon enough: your feet were good but your line/position was still on the ‘turn towards me’ line and not on the rear cross line. And I grabbed some screenshots of how early I cut across the line to get my pup to do the rear cross (I am just about fully on the new side while she is still 6 inches or so from the prop). The demo dog here is a lot smaller and she was slower too, so you can start him further back because he is bigger and faster (so makes decisions sooner :))Here is a link to the 5 visuals, because it is too big for the forum here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/15okRw_CQT2LoflkhztgBwQ_h-g8Oq0cMYVo6kHl0CRg/edit?usp=sharingLet me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>. I’m gonna want her to wrap with her head down…..not heel with her head up….there’s a difference!
That is correct! We do have more games coming where we work specifically on the pups’ head positions, but it is always good to get low heads from the start.
I think your prop game is going swimmingly well! She is moving off of you to hit it, which I like!! And has a very clear accurate ‘smack’ with her feet. She moves to it faster from your right side than from your left side – could be more value for sticking with you on your left, could be that she is a lefty not a righty so starting on your right is easier for her. I keep track of this stuff but I don’t obsess on it too much (yet haha)
One thing I notice here (and this mught be why you don’t lvoe it yet) is that there is a big speed differential: she leaves you slowly and comes back FAST. You are wise to stick closer to it for now. This is normal and we can start shifting that – it is a value question from the pups. Here are some suggestions:
– you are pretty darned exciting with the toy, which might be why she wants to stay near you and why the prop might not be as exciting to drive to when the toy is with you. So when you play this, you can send to the prop and sometimes mark with a “get it’ and throw the toy past it (if she likes that :)) and sometimes mark with your word that means “come here to me and get the toy” (I use “bite” for that). That can help slather the value equally to and from the prop
– you can also do the game with treats only, same as above with the toy – sometimes the treats are tossed past the prop, sometimes she comes back to your hand.
For now, do more reinforcement out past the prop and less back at you – you can add more distance and when she goes to hit the prop, toss the treat past it from wherever you are. That might shift where she goes out fast and doesn’t want to come back LOL! So if that happens, we shift the reinforcement back to your hand.
Separately from the prop – build up the wing wrap foundation games because the turn and burn will also build the speed and drive away from you (driving back to you is the easy part on that one). The prop sends and the wing wrap foundations “marry” in the turn and burn games, so you don’t need to wait til the prop sends are perfect to get the wing wraps going.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>When we do the collection sandwich to the go are you actually feeding the pivot? Or, just expecting the turn and the reward is after the go?>>
It will depend on the value of the reinforcement and activity, specific to the dog 🙂 On the sandwich, you *can* totally feed the pivot if you feel that she does not want to be tight to you. I do recommend feeding the pivot (at least the arrival to your hand) for now, because the game that builds on it that we added on Tuesday will have some good distractions out ahead – so we can build in as much value as possible for now, before we introduce the distraction out ahead 🙂
If you find that Sprite has more trouble driving ahead of you to the reinforcement for the ‘go’ element, you can stop feeding the pivot as you shift the value back to the go section.
>> If I out a bowl out is it preloaded? Doubtful I could toss accurately in the bowl.
It depends on value of the bowl and handler mechanics – if she will drive ahead to an empty bowl because it is really valuable, then there is less pressure on you to have to toss early or accurately because you can get closer to it before tossing the treat 🙂 You can also pre-load the bowl as it is a GREAT element of self-control – in this week’s handling combos games, I pre-loaded the target plate with a stick of string cheese that was a little open, so the dog could lick it but was not going to swallow it whole (this depends on the dog, though, because I do think some dogs would swallow it whole, while others would see no value in it).
You can also skip the bowl entirely and use a lotus ball or treat hugger to throw. Those are great because they are easy to throw and are perfect for food delivery when we want to use food.
Strike a pose looks great! She is picking up the pattern of the game (which is exactly what we want :)) and was really strong about hitting the target hand before heading to the reinforcement.
Small suggestions for you: You can lean your target hand lower down so she doesn’t have to pop up to touch it at all (you were lower when it was in your left hand, so you can bring your right hand down a little lower too)
She was good with the food reward, that really set her up into the right body line for what the behavior will ultimately be. But she was great with the strike to the toy!! I believe that toys are (were?) lower value so I love how she drove to it and I also love how you made it active by backing up and she got happy and silly with it after she got to it. The backing up a little after the strike is also a nice release of the pressure from driving into our bodies that is part of the serp & threadle positions. Click/treat to you!
She was hitting the target hand super nicely in your left, maybe not as well in your right but both were solid enough for our purposes and you were good with your criteria maintenance 🙂 It is interesting to note the difference in the strength of her hit because it indicates which direction/side she is more comfortable on – good to know in case she has questions in the future.
Since this went well, the next step is to get the reinforcement on the ground – you can put it on the ground with your feet pointing to it, a step or two away, so she hits the target hand then can slide over to the reward (using your marker). I suggest starting this with an empty bowl (you can drop the treat in from above) until she is really happy with it. Then you can go to the toy – but I don’t want to put a toy in the picture in case she might want to dive on the toy and skip the hand LOL!! We don’t want her to skip the hand and dive on the toy for the purposes of training the skill but also because I don’t want to tell her she is wrong for showing passion for the toy because you are building her love for toys… so for now we avoid any possibility of that LOL! The behavior can be trained easily with food, and then it will be easy to add the toy in first by dangling it and then putting it on the ground. Let me know if that makes sense 🙂
I am glad Gemma got a turn – her excitement was a reflection of how fun you were and how much fun Sprite seemed to have with the toy! Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
