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Good morning!
<< My joy has always been teaching him new things = high ROR and in general, Yes, and you have done it well. And I agree that new things need a high ROR and that reinforcement must be primary (cookies! or the tennis ball :)) and not secondary (continuing to work) >> working on his worries and anxieties has = high ROR.
Yes, and you have done a great job with that too!
Your work with the high ROR is why he is ready for us to now move forward 🙂
>>Now it’s time to focus on building delayed rewardnfor fluent skills, both food and toy, with the concentration probably on the food.
Yes – the primary gets delayed and the behavior in the moment is theoretically reinforced with the secondary reinforcement (opportunity to keep working, which has value!) And food is a main thing for him but using the tennis ball and his magical chill/tug mat is great to have too.
>>Again, toy play is never a problem when training, but can disappear at trials, probably due to his worries. I have never seen his food drive disappear and do work to protect that, the primary reason that I pay with high value treats.>>
Correct – reinforcement is in the eye of the reinforcement receiver 🙂 And it does indeed shift depending on the context. So if he loves food at trials, but not tugging? Perfectly fine to use food as the reinforcement.
>>We have the basics in place I think – per the attached video
– place the reward together
– go do the work
– return to the reward together on cue.
So now to work on building the duration of the work.>>Yes, he did really well here! I love how he saw you put the treats down and then was able to go into the ring and offer the line up and sit. He was good with the short obedience routine here and I a, guessing he would have also done well if it was an agility sequence. So the main thing now is to gameplan the remote reinforcement for agility runs.
I’ve been thinking about it and the timing light hex 🙂 – rather than build up the skill in a forward-fashion by starting at jump 1 on a course, I think you might have more success with some backchaining of the end of the run. What I mean by that is taking those timing light hex moments where he is heading towards what he perceives as the ring exit, passes through timing lights… but it is not the end and needs to turn away from it all and keep going. He probably has enough agility experience at this point that he can predict the end of most runs based on the context of how the course curves around … and then in the instances where it is NOT the end, he doesn’t really know how to continue and that might be confusing or stressful.
So isolating that turning away at the end will help – set up something that looks like an ending line and reinforce him for NOT going to the exit gate (both by reinforcing on course as he turns away from the exit, and sometimes using your remote reinforcement marker to run to the exit).And the other thing is to try to keep things unpredictable in training – the exit location should not always be paired with the ending of the course. And, adding in the leash as part of it will help too: keep going, Cody, til you hear your “let’s go get your leash” marker. Then, leash on, run out to cookies (if he wants to tug on the leash, great! But he doesn’t have to if he does not find it reinforcing)
>I’m also going to keep working on building value for the leash as a toy with the hope of eventually getting it usable at a trial. Got him laying on his leash on his mat now ant then tugging on either the leash or the mat.>>
Great! And also establishing the ‘leash on, time for remote reinforcement’ procedure will help too.
>>how often do you run Max Pup? Looking to take on a puppy in the spring, should I take on the material now or will there be sessions running in spring?>>
We do the working version of it twice a year – late Autumn (we are in week 4 of 12 right now) and then usually late spring/early summer (mid June). The June session might be perfect for a new puppy!!!!
Tracy
Good morning!
>> I do love the change to Combined Pairs and also love the “Covid” baton (or no longer baton) exchange – SO much safer all the way around. 🙂 I was thrilled with how well Sly was able to focus when he ran 2nd!!!
It looked really fun, both dogs were on fire! Maybe someday they will bring back strategic pairs?
>>Catching up on the Week 4 games, the time has sure gone quickly in this class – I’ve had a couple of folks that take lessons from me ask if you are going to offer it again? So, I thought I’d ask? >>
I will put it on independent study for a while and maybe let Clean Run offer it as an independent study too. Probably won’t run a working version of it til spring.
>>And do you know what your plans are for other classes you’re going to be offering this winter?
Sorta LOL! The puppy class progressions are easy to plan, so I am working on planning other stuff – mainly revamping the Agility U concept a bit because we have our 10th birthday coming up, so I want to change things up 🙂 Stay tuned!
>>Hope to get a couple of leash tugging and some remote reward sessions videoed for some feedback. I’m pretty pleased with how they are going but am sure I’m missing some stuff!!!>>
Awesome!! I am looking forward to seeing it!
T
Good morning!
This is a great focal point for him, the leash-as-toy will be very useful for a whole lot of things!The leash was a real toy here in the beginning, before and after the wing wrapping! He seemed to prefer the chase of it and the get it and was not as excited about the ‘bite’ procedure. But the moving toy was the most exciting to him and he definitely engaged!
(With that in mind – we never really know how much mental effort there is for the dog, so after that section of the session he might have been mentally depleted. The session didn’t seem to go for too long on the clock, but his giant tongue and looking away did seem like the leash-as-toy depleted him a bit. I know he often has a giant tongue during training 🙂 But I don’t think it was *that* hot out and he was not doing all that much running… so in this case, giant tongue might have been a brain depletion indicator. And if that happens – you can chalk this first part up as a giant win and don’t introduce anything new after that.)
Building to using the leash as a leash and a toy: He seemed fine with you putting the leash over his head, but not as interested when you were leaning over asking for a strike. You can try that by leaning back and moving back, to entice him to come forward towards you more (but strike was not his favorite when the leash was not on him so it makes sense that he would not be as jazzed up about it when he was wearing it).
He was more interested when you were moving it away moving it away but his tongue was giant at this point and he was looking away, so he might have just needed a break from the tugging. Shifting to tricks with the leash on was also a good way to get the leash more ino the picture and he was definitely not feeling depleted when you did that! Yay!So tugging is a bit of a limited bank account for him – so when adding the leash as the toy, do incredibly short bursts so you limit the withdrawals from the tug account 🙂 But it seems tricks-for-treats is a pretty massive trust fund, so you can totally do more of these. And it does help build value for the leash!
And you can also do a ‘leash on’ game where you pair it with the remote reinforcement marker: he does a wing wrap or something, you get the leash on, then mark it and run to get cookies: super useful for the end of AKC trials where the leash needs to go back on.
>>I was really happy how the leash played into the loop with the frizz so I’m assuming I need to modify that someway to incorporate the leash.>>
Totally agree! We can play around with what is best for him
>>Again he likes tug, he doesn’t love it >>
With this in mind, make up some value transfer loopy games:
Wing wrap (which he seems to like) or tunnel – chase the leash til he grabs at it (or tugs on it) – friz through – return to you for cookie – wing wrap/tunnel – and so on. It can mirror the demo video I did with CB and the tennis ball, where it was a trained behavior that was stimulating AND associated with fast reinforcement – then the “new” reward (in your case, swooshing the leash around) – then a quick transition to the BIG reward (da friz!)The leash doesn’t need to be on his at any time soon, but you can start it like that and eventually it can be on him and dragging (but safely so that there are no obstacles or anything, just short silly games that install wearing the leash.
>>I see a definitive shift in him once the leash goes on>>
Probably a conditioned response – he has been wearing a leash of some sort since he was what, 8 weeks old? And Pavlov is one powerful mothereffer. So, it will take a short while to change the conditioned response which is why we install it into these procedures/games that already have a strong existing positive conditioned response, both in terms of “feelings” and also in terms of what you do (after the wing wrap, you chase the reward, it is what we do :))
>> also learned that I should never film in these pants because hello very visible cellulite 😳. I’m going to go starve myself now.
What? I liked those pants and saw no cellulite! I also liked the color combo! You look fabulous 🙂
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! This was a fun session to watch:
He started off just kind pf retrieving the leash for treats, but as soon as you you got the leash moving with the ‘shhhhhh’ – he really lit up! Great tugging! Having the leash on his neck and being closer to cookies was harder for him, so feel free to progress slowly with that – the leash can spend a lot of time as “just” a toy, and limited time as an actual leash 🙂
Also, with an eye towards raising value even more: instead of the the ‘give’ cue, you can use your remote reinforcement marker to get the leash back then run to the cookies placed further away and reward. That can really help build up the leash as a pretty irresistible toy and as part of the beginning & end of run routines 🙂>>PS Had a rousing game of Hide & Seek yesterday with Nuptse, ping pongng the reinforcement! It was very fun!!!>>
That sounds fun! And a great way to spend a cold day 🙂
Great job here!
TracyHi!
>> I have space and lights on my front lawn. Wondering if any of tonight’s class exercises would be better with a little more space. Let me know what you think. I’d like to try using that outdoor option for anything where it might be nice.
One game would be good for more space but doable indoors in the space you have. The other 2 games are perfect for indoor spaces, not much room to move needed on those at all 🙂
Let me know – if you want to do the bigger game outdoors, we can do it first when you might still have natural light?
>>Also, he’s not swallowing the treats on the send and turn so I ended up fading them out.>>
That is fine, we don’t want him to learn to spit out treats LOL!!! You can always refresh the “eat the cookie” behavior in different contexts, separately from when you are running away and cuing other things. I think his food-eating has been really good in training lately, so no need to create any issues – fading the treat was a good choice.
I only have “woohoo!” for you as feedback on the video LOL! Everything looks great 🙂
The countermotion looks really good, he is maintaining his commitment while you are moving the other way and that is exactly what we want him to do. So… next step is to challenge him with things that might increase arousal:
– leaving a little faster
– using toys instead of food (but you moving slowly again) so it would be tug tug tug, take a breath to setup – send, countermotion, mark it with a toy cue, tug tug tug. The toy marker can be your ‘strike’ or a chase the moving toy marker, whichever you prefer is great!
CM – looks good, go to a tug toy now which will increase arousal
ThingRear crosses – super nice!!!! He is still committing to his prop even though you are really early (aka perfectly on time) with you cutting in behind him – it gives him plenty of time to read the cue and make the adjustment. To get him started, try to use a silly noise or something and try not to say “go” because that will mean something else soon enough 🙂 The prop hits are pretty strong! No worries if they are not perfect – the concept is the important part and he is nailing it. I think you can go to a toy here too!
Collection Sandwich – this looks good even with very little room to really run. He is getting really good at fast pivots even if you don’t have time to decel – yay! And I think he likes the decels/pivots which is really important – I want him to love to turn as much as he loves going fast and in extension. This game looked FUN with the toy and going up the stairs was impressive LOL
So you can shelve this one til you have big spaces, and the games we add this week and next week can replace it in terms of extension-to-collection-to extension.Great job! See you later!
TracyHi!
I think this went a lot better than you described LOL!The first minute looks good, you were really building things up nicely! I think having her line up in ‘place’ was a good idea and also the leg weaves – because she had to turn away from the rewards in order to earn them. She did well!
>>>hen I started getting harder and lost her.
Yes, a little – I think you were making it progressively harder, rather than gradually harder. What I mean by that is there was not enough of a ping pong effect where you did an easy one then a hard one then n easy one then a hard one. Each rep was progressively more challenging, so she had a little more trouble like with the repeated hand touches (she was like, why do you want another one LOL!) and then from no lead out to a pretty long lead out (she was pretty good, just a little butt lift then she put it back down).
Overall, you are on the right track, so the only suggestion I have is to ping pong the challenges more (easy to hard to easy to hard) to gradually increase difficulty.
Nice work! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>> but see my facebook post about my amazing dog training skills and how I ended up with two dogs covered in mud LOL
Eek! I will have to go take a look!!!
>>instead I have a question about quiet being reinforcing and meaning yes…you are doing it right keep going. So if I put a remote reinforcement out of higher value than the dry kibble in my hand (assuming I’ve taught the remote reinforcement well) and I do something–like a stay–that is easy to work on duration–and I start with some quick careful and catches to warm up the behavior. And then do a longer duration saying nothing and then do the remote reinforcer…I feel like it’s almost a good thought but I’m missing a piece…Thoughts?>>
Yes, good stuff but I think there needs to be something that is an environmental “keep going” cue. For example, if you are working a stay on the mat, the mat is the keep going cue. An example on the opposite end of the spectrum (this is not something that I think you would do, just an illustration): we wouldn’t start by asking for a stay with a remote reinforcement behind the dog… then have you simply leave the room for a few minutes LOL! So I guess my question is: what is helping cue the stay in these early stages? It can be you standing there, quietly, looking at her. Or moving away a certain number of steps before marking the behavior and delivering reinforcement. And building duration gradually with these environmental or situational keep going cues will help too, so you don’t need additional verbal cues.
Let me know if that makes sense 🙂
TracyGood morning!
On contact training at your home base – get her more stimulated so you can simulate the trial level of arousal – you can use a tug toy before the contact and as the reward, and you can put a tunnel out ahead so she is more tempted to get excited 🙂
>>Do I keep working the catch on her stay to reinforce to her that she can move?
You can – throw it far enough away from her that she does move to get it 🙂 I mean, you can go the route of NOT having her move regardless of where the toy or treat ends up landing if you want to add that extra layer pf criteria.
>>I feel like the main behaviors I should keep working on are the catch and turn back for her start line stay and for the contacts it would be catch and the remote reinforcement.>>
Yes, these sound good and remote reinforcement in general because it really helps the dogs stay in a better, more centered state of arousal at trials.
Remote reinforcement video – the barking indicates that there is some arousal happening, which is great! We want to work her in an arousal that she might feel at trials. I couldn’t necessarily hear all the markers but I will trust you that it was perfect 🙂
After the wrap – you can add in her coming to you before cuing the remote reinforcement with the food, I think this will also help when you add the toy.
Toy remote reinforcement – this was definitely harder, which is great because it will help simulate trial behavior. With the higher excitement toys, you might need to revisit the initial step of moving away from the reinforcement for just a step or tow then simple behaviors to build up on it, making it easier for her to ignore it
>> the toy not so much and then doesn’t she bring it back right to my hands like I’ve been working on.>>
This is also an indicator of arousal, it is almost like she needed a moment to blow off steam because it was a hard setup (mentally). That is good news, but we don’t want to break behaviors you have been training, so a different setup (like the windowsill you mentioned) will really help. When she is more experienced with doing this in arousal, I think the toy retrieve will be no problem here.
>> The next part though is – I do want a certain behavior at the toy. Is it unrealistic for her to sit? and I give her whatever reward it is? I’m going to have to work up to that. What about if I put the reward up on a window sill? She’d be less likely to grab it up there.>>
I don’t think it is unrealistic but it definitely has to be built. At the very end, it looks like she took it and ran off. I agree that the first step is going to be putting the reward somewhere that helps you get the behavior you want – a tall table or windowsill is a great idea because it prevents the behavior of taking it by herself and running around with it. So you can shape the behavior that way – she will wait for you to get there and then you can give her the reinforcement. And then you eventually can get there and wait for her to offer a sit – then give her the reinforcement. You might find you don’t need to add the sit, especially as the leash comes into the picture, it might be easier to just add waiting for you to get there 🙂
Nice work! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
Th training video looked good – he was happy to engage with the toy, and happy to ignore it while you were running the sequence. Yay! So, with that in mind, I think the biggest thing for Cody at this point is going to be getting him really happy with the remote reinforcement games, so he understands how to run at trials when toys & treats are not in the ring.>>So I put a hex on myself talking about timing lights. Our Saturday jumpers run took us thru the timing uprights for the last 3 jumps – after the 2nd time, he said what the F I’m done. It was an adventure getting him to take the 3rd.
This is a great thing to focus on specifically, because it is definitely a remote reinforcement question for him. Does the training center have timing lights you can borrow for training purposes? If not, use a white wingless upright so you have something that looks like the end-of-run timers on a jump near the exit gate.
You can have him run through it, past the exit gate, then over a jump or two or three – and reward right there in the ring with a toy or treat. That lays the foundation 🙂
Then, use the remote reinforcement: you can have the toy you used in training on this video hanging on the ring gate or on a chair past the ‘last jump’ setup. Get him to take the last jump and turn away from the reward – then use your remote reinforcement marker and go run to the reward. Then you can build it up to taking one jump after what he thinks is the last jump, then 2 jumps, and so on. At first the toy can be in the ring and obvious, then you can move it outside the ring like it would be at a trial/
And then you can change the toy out for the tennis ball or treats – that might be harder 🙂
And then build it up to bigger courses *before* the last jump, so he gets used to that perceived delay in getting the reinforcement and to strengthen the remote reinforcement marker.
Let me know what you think! Everything else looks good so we can really focus on remote reinforcement.
TracyHi!
Having the weaves all the way in that corner makes things harder to train the weaves!! And yes, exiting from the far door does make it a little harder – does that door lead to a room or to the outdoors? Good job figuring out how to reward. I think this was the MISC class, so you don’t have to have the reward as far away at the beginning of the remote reinforcement for weaves – it can be 10 feet behind him which will make this type of course easier to get the reinforcement in faster. Then you can gradually get the reward further and further back, til it is out of the ring (and maybe post a friend or someone to toss the reward in when you use your marker for toy time 🙂The judge moving the toy did make it harder but it was a good distraction too – a very realistic scenario!!
Nice work here!
TracyWow! That looks SO FUN!!! I like the combined pairs concept. Both of you ran aggressively with connection, and the dogs looked great!!! Well done 🙂
TracyGood morning!
I am glad she is familiar with this, it is a useful game!
You were indeed a little too close since she ran right over to it – good adjustment to move a little further way. But overall she had a really successful session overall, and made great choices while offering great engagement! You can also play this with toys, since she likes toys. Toys might be helpful because sometimes arousal being higher (thanks to toys) helps distractions fade away… or toys might be more challenging because her arousal is higher and she might have more trouble making good decisions.I think she was offering other behaviors because the context of the game had no other behaviors to offer so she was asking if a stay would get the food into her mouth (and she really really wanted the food bowl LOL!)
So now, looking at your distraction hierarchy list: you can go up to the next step of difficulty in terms of distraction. You can add more of your motion and higher level reinforcement as the difficulty increases.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! I mist have missed this yesterday, SORRY!!
>>I thought there were a lot of really nice things happening in this run and even with the two ring-crew visits (off camera), he had more than enough points to qualify.
I agree, lots of nice stuff here! He probably needs more experience with random ring crew people – can you ask classmates to sit in chairs in the ring, during his turn?
>Unfortunately, Cowboy noticed a gap near the gate and ran out of the ring so we were eliminated.
>I thought about it for a while and am wondering if my reinforcement approach caused this.
>>Currently, most of the rewards occur at the end of the run near the exit. I am sure he was >>experiencing some stress but based upon his behavior before, during and after the run, he didn’t >>seem totally freaked out.Yes, I think there was some ring stress (there always is with youngsters in new environment – stress is not always a bad thing :)) but also yes – the reinforcement procedures will totally help!
I think he probably does not fully understand the remote reinforcement procedures of when to go to the reward outside the ring (and when to continue to run the course, even when turning away from obvious exit gate).
>>In class/practice, I plan to start tossing the Lotus ball away from the gate at the end of the run and randomly rewarding at the other end of the ring but if you have other suggestions, I would love to hear your thoughts 🙂>>
Yes, the lotus ball will help reward him for turning away from the exit gate, and that is great! Pair that will have the obvious reinforcement there, and mix in having him come to you at the end of a sequence or run – praise – then use your remote reinforcement marker to run to the exit & reward. And the next step is adding in the leash, which is mandatory for AKC. I just posted leash stuff yesterday afternoon so you can begin playing with the leash as a reward and also as part of the remote reinforcement procedures – all good stuff to teach him as he is learning how to compete. And definitely show him all this in class 🙂
>>BTW: There is someone who is speaking off camera; not sure who but not me:)
Yeah, that was strange LOL!!!
Let me know what you think!
Tracy
