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I know how it is when things are really busy! You are doing a great job with her, she looked fabulous in class!!!!!
This is awesome!!!! He is so smart!!! I really like how the minny pinny builds this particular skill. My 2 youngest dogs were taught this way and they seem to truly understand the left/right verbals. I was running a speedstakes this weekend with my 2 year old, and I got behind him on a big line (shocking, not! hahahahaha!) I used my left verbal on time and properly (lehhhft lehhhhft) and he totally turned his head and nailed the turn, turning away from me to his left (he was on my left). I was so happy I almost forgot to keep running LOL!
Good morning!
Ah, the pond breaks sound awesome!!!! And I am sad to hear that there is no more worker bacon. Sigh. Times have changed indeed. And that is so funny about Ginger visiting the snack table LOL!>> I think I have that issue with a local trainer who sets up courses with illegal spacing and tight turns. Now that you spell it out for me, I think I should not take Prism there, or modify the course presented, what do you think?>>
Yes, if you go there – modify the courses so he has room to run run run! We don’t want him thinking that agility is a game that should be played in collection the whole time. At his age, he should be doing mostly extension with some turns thrown in here or there, in ways that he can be very successful 🙂 Some dogs learn to run in collection the whole time if that is what they are presented with… some dogs just get frustrated because they don’t want to run at a moderate pace the whole time. Either way, we want Prism to feel the wind in his hair on big fast lines 🙂 and NOT be frustrated.
>>Do you know Tracy Hanna?
Yes! I met her a bunch of years back down in FL, might be more than 10 years ago! Eek! She is wonderful!
>> I told her my desire to use verbals with the correct rate/rhythm. She busted my chops on being too loud/energetic on my wraps.
HAHAHA!!! That is awesome LOL!!! And that is why I use noises for my wrap cues… I cannot shout choochoochoo or tststs at my dogs. LOL! We all get a little excited on course so I limited my options by choosing verbals that make me calm down 🙂
>>And we had a discussion on the degree of turn desired-from the dog’s perspective-and which v.c. Should be used. The turn was tighter than a 90 , but not a wrap. UGH!! We used a toy drop and the wrap cue. What do you think? I love Tracy. She asks for my criteria and holds me to it. She takes video (Prism is pretty fast) and she looks for dog behavior/cue timing. She recognizes frustration, etc.>>
Yay for criteria! I remember her as being a really top notch dog trainer/handler and a super nice person too with a great sense of humor.
The not-quite-wrap and not-quite-soft-turn is a grey area indeed. It depends on the dog, and the line. If the dog can naturally slither around a jump and turn super tight, a soft turn verbal might be the better option. If they are not able to turn as tight naturally, the wrap verbal can help – it is very individualized and it is something that comes with learning how to run each individual. For example, I have these 3 young dogs: 2 of them would likely just need a soft turn verbals because they are whippet mixes and can turn like spaghetti noodles. The 3rd does not turn as well because of how she is built, so I would use the wrap with her.
In that situation, I also analyze what will create the fastest line on the next element of the sequence: is it the wrap? Or does letting them collect less/go a little wider get an overall faster line? It is fun to dissect!
Do you have a drawing of the sequence in question? It would be fun to discuss in the Chat tonight!!
Minny pinny –
Really nice session here! Hopefully the UPS truck brought good things LOL!>>On the M.P. I really tried to use correct rate/rhythm with v.c>>
It was super nice! My only suggestion is to place the reward for one more soft turn after the 3rd jump, but having him do the 90 degree turn and end up in front of you, parallel to the bar to get the reward.
>And use reset cookies, and start “easy” and progress to “hard” on each side (still had an error on side change).
It was a really strong successful session! The error after the side change was because the challenge is really hard and you were facing forward with no handling help – but no worries, he got it right after that.
>> So I think this was the correct decision to back up and do the simpler exercise while I corrected all of my previous handling inconsistencies.
This little game helps us teach the soft turns including turn away from us, so I like it for all the dogs! And it is challenging enough that they don’t get bored 🙂
>>( did you see the pre-cue handling-arm swing- I did on a left rear cross?) is this allowed?>>
Yes, it was really good – it was subtle, it was after you said the verbal a few times, and you didn’t need it afterwards. You can add in your feet pointing straight, that is the hardest part for the dogs – feet straight to the center of the bar, verbal cue, then that little hand help if needed (I would start with the hand help then fade it out).
>>For practice we did the Minnie Pinnie because we tried one jump and Prism had no clue what I meant (without handling help).
Do you mean the one jump with the turning away? I find that most dogs need the handling help at first because turning away is definitely not natural or comfy for them. As long as the verbal cue starts before the handling help, they learn it.
>>P.s. It is confusing to work Minnie Pinnie with LEFT/RIGHT Soft turns and then work the course progression with the one jump turns using the wrap cues.>>
Confusing because they are both working on the independence where the dog can be turning towards you or away? Sorry!! we don’t want any confusion!! You can back-burner one of them while you get the other rolling, and come back to the other later on. I definitely don’t want to confuse you or him 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
Great seeing you at the UKI trial! You and your dogs looked great!
These videos also look really good! Tons of progress!
>>I tried these a few different sessions – most often great results, but I could not use food or lower value toy for the “go” exercises. He’d “go” regardless, but wasn’t interested in anything but the tug he knew I had in my hand. Went once on another high value toy, but not the 2nd time. Just goes regardless.>>
The wraps were looking strong for sure – he was good with his wraps to the left and GREAT with the wraps to the right! YAY!!! I think he might be waing a bit for handling help on the wraps, especially to the left – and of course at a trial we try to help… but in training we can emphasize the verbals more to help him not rely on handling. So for these games (and the port/star games too)… handle less but rotating or trying to be on time 🙂 – just move forward, using the verbal, and don’t turn or do anything til after he makes the decision (Guinness gets to drive the bus here LOL! ). Because it is harder without handling help, move forward at a fast walk/slow jog so he is ahead of you and working the turns. High speed running might be too hard for now, but we can build up to it!
Yes, he was happy to go. Interesting that he only wanted the toy in your hand, so since we don’t want to fight with him or frustrating him, I guess we can use the high value toy for the GO as well 🙂 He i doing well with the turns so I am not worried about the value at this point 🙂
The port/star turns also look really strong without motion (especially to the right, he is a total righty :)) So now we need to add motion.
2 ideas for you:
Add the start wing here instead of just 2 jumps. I think he makes his decisions VERY early and that often means you get extension. So if you add the start wing here like you had with the wraps, you will have more time to give him the soft turn info (15 feet or so) and that should help. Start just by walking forward and see how it goes!The other thing is to change the delivery of port and star so they sound very different than GO!
GO! is big and loud and it was hard for me to hear the difference between Go, Port, an Star on the video because they were all said once, loud, and relatively short. So you can soften the delivery of port and star to staaar staaaar and poort poooort so they are longer, quieter and repeated. That should make them sound really different, which will help him process the different behaviors.
soft right really great too
Using the start wing, you can wrap him around the wing and as you walk forward, you can be saying ‘staaaar staaaaar staaaaar’ and see if that helps.As with the wraps – don’t change your line or throw the toy until you see him make a decision on the takeoff side. If he collects to turn, even a little – big party with the toy! Yay!
I am excited by his progress! Keep me posted on how the next session goes!
TracyGood morning!
LOTS to be happy with in these 2 sessions!
The first session was very precise, nice and quiet, he was pretty perfect on the turns to the left (and a couple of WOWZA moments on the wraps!!!) You were smart to recognize that the right turns were harder in that moment so you broke it down then built it back up – nice! I am happy with how he is using his body here – head down more, better spine position, not lifting his back feet above his shoulders anymore. My only suggestion is to throw sooner on the Go reps 🙂
The 2nd session had a barking dog in the background and he was more stimulated, which is GOOD! He had already been successful in a quieter setting so the added excitement was a great way to up the ante – he still did really well!!! he was moving faster and vocalizing but still able to maintain criteria really well on most reps. One thing in the past was that he would not always put in a collection on takeoff – he was doing that consistently here. HAPPY DANCE! And he didn’t particularly lose form or criteria when you added more motion, other than one dropped bar (you can check out the proofing games I added to get some ideas on that :))
So, keep visiting this one with excitement in the environment 🙂 And you can also move to the course work game which embeds these setups (but do them with a low bar at first and short sequences so he can get the idea and is not surprised). I bet you can embed these games into courses you run in class too!
Great job 🙂
TracyGood morning!
>>I worked on changing the tone of my voice and being more careful about the mechanics.
Yes! Totally sounded good and the reps with the cookie already in your hand and thrown quickly really looked good. Both dogs looked great!
>> The wing on the jump seemed to help. Keltie is still having trouble with the go.
The left/right turns with both of them looked really strong. I think Buccleigh was doing well with the go – he was definitely more center-of-the-bar on those, and your throws were well-timed! Keltie has more trouble with the Go reps, so I was thinking you could leave the MM or an empty food bowl out there the whole time as a focal point. For the left/right turns, continue to toss the rewars like you did here. For the GO, you can trigger the MM or toss a cookie to the bowl. That can help her learn to love driving straight ahead.
>>“His response to being tired is to bark more.” That’s kind of his response to everything. You can hear him “resting” in his crate while Keltie is running :-).
Yes, that is definitely his “thing” LOL! Is there any place he can be crated where he can actually rest? If he is barking, he isn’t resting – and that will potentially make the training sessions harder because he is already frustrated, even before starting his turn.
The only other little detail is to keep the bar low on the distraction jump when you are doing the left/right on the wing, so it is very tempting because it is so easy (the taller bar there might have just been a leftover from a previous course setup.
Great job here! All fingers and toes are crossed for good weather soyou can get outside 🙂
Tracy
Hello and welcome! But UGH about the winter storm coming! BOOOOO! I am ready for a long streak of great weather 🙂
Have fun!
TracyHello! Great to see you and Dice here! Yay! Fingers crossed for a long streak of great weather!!
Tracy
Hi!
We teach the verbals to mean “take the jump and turn” so she will probably not turn *before* the jump 🙂>> how do I teach turn and right so they understand which one I want?>>
The minny pinny from the first MaxPup is how we start that, and we will continue it in this class 🙂
TracyHi! Glad to see you here!!!
Thank you for the update!! It sounds like she is using her skills beautifully – I am excited for you both! Now, we need the snow to melt….Have fun!
TracyHi!
He asked some good questions here! And this is good to know with a trial coming up this weekend!For this particular exercise, don’t do the loop over and over – just do it once, and reward, then reset for the next rep. That way it is start wing, jump, turn wing – and with the wrap cue, he should take the jump again on the way to the reward. I think when you were trying to do it several times in a row, the verbals and handling were getting muddy so he was unsure of what to do or how to earn the reward.
>>What am I doing wrong with the send ? She checks in is it my body language feet etc.
Looking at the difference between the reps where he was smooth and beautiful versus the reps when he didn’t go to the turn wing:
When you were connected, kept moving, and your arms were low – he was perfect!
When you were looking at the wing (not at him) and decelerated sharply and your arm came up high – he stopped and looked at you. Because he is so inexperienced, he still needs the physical support of the motion, connection and low arm.Look at :18-:20 – you stayed in motion, you were looking at him, and your arm stayed low (you pointed forward after he passed you, which is fine :))
Same thing at :27-:30… perfect!Those 2 moments are what you should do at the trial this weekend:
keep moving
look at him, lots of connection,
keep your arms low and smooth (don’t point ahead of him or let your arms come up high.Compare to a couple of the moments when he had questions:
:09, where you were standing still at the wing, looking ahead and your hand ended up above your head 🙂
:10-:12, not enough motion or connection (nice low arm!)
:40-:41 and 1:01-1:03 both had too much slamming of the brakes with not enough connection, so he stopped.When he is more experienced, the motion and connection will not be as important. And the low arm helps with the connection, because it keeps your eyes visible and shoulders pointed to the wing. If you point forward, connection gets broken and your shoulders turn away from the wing.
Let me know what you think! The motion/connection/low arm should smooth it all out 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
Wait, Maroon 5?!?!?! I am jealous!!!! It sounds like you have had some big fun lately, that is AWESOME!!
And I love the video of Promise’s first year – great pup, great video, great song 🙂 YAY!!
Her training session looked lovely here too – it is a really challenging skill and she did well! She generally got them all correct, just a little blooper here and there. She did her best when you held her long enough that she heard the verbal several times and then was practically pulling out of your hand to go the correct place LOL!
2 ideas for you:
When there is an error, don’t mark it other than to immediately call her back with a casual call (something like “c’mere!” and show a cookie) to immediately reset with the cookie. The reset cookies are definitely helping but I noticed that when you reacted to the error, even if it was just to say “oh” or something (like at :33 and 1:19), she barked and got real mad haha! When you were quiet, like at :58, she didn’t bark – so calling her back to the reset cookie will help to further get rid of the anger barking 🙂The only other question she had was about taking the jump when she got to the backside – we can help train it as a default behavior by changing the timing and placement of the reward:
As soon as she arrives at the wing, toss the toy to the landing side of the jump so she doesn’t look at you at all (your timing at :55 was PERFECT, do more of that :))And, when you do throw it, throw it behind you and back towards the entry wing, so as she rounds the entry wing, she is looking at the landing spot and bar and not at you. If you are later with the throw and throw it ahead, she might be watching you too much and not looking for the bar – so if you throw is not perfect, she won’t take the bar. When you throw it earlier and behind you, she won’t look at you and she will just go to the bar 🙂
She had a little blooper at 1:34 when you said go she did backside – I think maybe you were blocking the front of the bar a little, and when you gave her a little more room at 1:46 she was perfect!
>>. Also, I had not tried out the left and right much with the rears yet. I did here and we will need some work on those.
She did well with the rear cross handling! I definitely suggest adding a little hand cue for the turn aways, it makes it faster to fade the motion (and it is easy to fade out the hand cues).
Great job! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
