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Good morning!
>So, it’s the black toy she wants. No idea why. I couldn’t get her to chase the treat off of that toy. >
Taking that toy out of the picture for now to establish the game and toy procedures will be helpful, then we can bring it back eventually.
The other toys worked well for getting her to let go and go to the next one! Yay! But I would definitely dd in the cookie with these toys, to show her the procedure we will use when there is a higher value toy involved.
>Since she was switching I tried to see if she’d offer to go without activating the other side. She did, but maybe lumping and I should have made the other side active?>
Since she has experience with the concept here, I don’t think it was lumping with this value toy. It was Fast Tracking 😂 😆 She did well!!
The cone wrap with the treats went well. Break the cookie session up a lot to play with toys (every 3 or 4 toys) so she doesn’t start to default to ‘chill’ behavior (lots of value for that in that particular room) or look around because the treats get too repetitive. You can gradually add more and more distance with the cone inching away from you, especially on her easier side.
Great job!
Tracy
Good morning! This is a perfect game to start with and she did great!
>I’ll try to improve the video quality as we continue but I just wanted to get started.>
The video quality was great, no need to change anything 🙂
Well done to you for using the verbals too (so many verbals in this game LOL!)
Her wraps were pretty perfect and also the advanced level at the end was a big success(with the tunnel then wrap). Her wing commitment is great!!!
>She doesn’t quite have tunnel commitment down yet.
Part of that is because she is taller than the tunnel, so she has to decelerate and drop her head to get in (as compared to a much smaller dog that can just run in, no collection needed). She does seem to enjoy the tunnel but needed an extra stride to get into it without hitting her head 🙂
With both the wing and the tunnel, you can add in fading out the physical cues – for the wraps, wait a little longer to show her the toy (let her be coming back towards you, then you can present the toy). For the tunnel, you can turn to it to support the line, but see if she will keep going to it without you having to move as much. Then you can throw the toy to the end for her to run around with, which I think will be very motivating for running through the tunnel 🙂
Great job here!!
Tracy
Good morning!
>She really wants to target near my hand.>
A lot of dogs across all breeds and reward histories just love to be up by our hands. Maybe they get a better grip to be able to pull really hard on the tug?
A possibility for the moving target is to use a food-based reward instead of a tug toy. You can attach a big lotus ball or treat hugger to a line and drag it. She might be more interested in focusing on it if it is food. For the purposes of the jump foundation games, that is perfectly fine! Tugging is not needed, it is more about finding a target we can get her to look at.
The Smiley face game went GREAT!!! You had a good distance between the wings and tunnel, but you were VERY connected and she was able to find the lines like a grown up dog. Love it!!!
Only a couple of little bloopers –
At :30, you moved your hand forward so it looked like a cookie throw, perhaps? So she looked for a treat for a heartbeat LOL! Be sure to use your reward markers so she knows that a get it is the indicator and not the hand movement 🙂You had a tiny disconnect at 1:00 when cueing the wing, so she tagged you to let you know (thanks, Bokeh haha!!)
And at 1:12 there was a tiny tiny disconnect on the left turns and the wing might have been too far there at first. She got it nicely at 1:26 and 1:36 so her question might have been more about learning the context and not a connection question. The right turns at the end were very easy for her 🙂
>I have had a few more new tunnels bags and bags of rocks sitting around for well over a year. Finally filled them this morning! I guess I needed some additional motivation! Need it for class!!!>
I think her brilliance here added more motivation to have the tunnel bags filled and ready! You two looked great!
Nice work :)
TracyGood morning!
>Brioche is absolutely in need of a group class. He had the hardest time with the name game of all the things we did in the first class. Responding to his name with all the distractions. So I am going to be doing a lot of that game this weekend at the agility trial.>
Before asking him to respond to anything, you can help him focus by using the back and forth pattern game we did in MaxPup 1! The distractions you encountered are a perfect place to play that game.
Good job getting him outside to play the games!!
>. He was particularly distracted when coming out of the right end of the tunnel. I expect the more we work outside, the better this will get. >
Yes, so any time you sneak in a bit of outside work is good! Maybe come back to Florida to avoid the snow LOL!!
He did great with the discrimination game! He got the wrap element right away without looking at the tunnel. SUPER! He did well on both sides too and didn’t need help with handling to wrap.
The angle of the tunnel made finding the tunnel entry a little harder at first so you can change its position by 90 degrees so as he exits the wrap, the tunnel entry is staring him right in the face 🙂
And great job making your wrap snd tight verbals sound completely different from the tunnel verbal: that definitely contributed to his success. And great job to you for using both the wrap & tight verbals!!
For the smiley face game:
You can pull out a longer tunnel for this after the snow goes away!Great job with the connection from wing to tunnel at the start!
Use cookies to line him up – he doesn’t always know what to do in the transition moments from the tugging to the start.
>The other thing he needs to work thru is ignoring the toy if it is in the hand that I am sending him with. >
Actually, I don’t think it was a toy issue – it was a connection question!
When you were very connected (eye contact and your dog-side arm back behind you so he could see the connection )- he had no questions and it did not matter where the toy was, he knew where to go on the line. The very beginning looked great, and then when you did the soft turns in the middle there was a lot of connection so he was correct even with the toy flapping around 🙂 Yay!
As you added more speed into the sequence and more obstacles in the middle of the session, you had less connection and you were using your hands more and you were not really looking back at him.
Without seeing connection at this stage, he didn’t know where to go so he came into you. It might look like he was coming to the toy (1:38) but it was not really that – he came into you at 2:24 and 2:40-2:48 because he needed connection to show him the line (he was not looking at the toy at all there).
So definitely prioritize looking at him with your arm pointing back to him (and not pointing at your side), so he can see your connection and the line,
>Trying to manage his distraction and keeping my handling clear was apparently difficult for me!>
Don’t worry about managing the distractions, he did really well! Keeping the sequences short with lots of rewards will help the blowing leaves fade into the background for him.
Nice work here!
Tracy
Good morning!
>I think when I was holding the toy, which is a huge favorite of his he found it a little distracting.>
He was definitely aware of what the toy was doing! I think the toy question was more of a mechanics question and not a distraction issue: For example, at the beginning you were sending him and switching the toy from hand to hand at the same time, so he was not sure where to look and came back to you (same at :21, :28).
But when the mechanics were clear (nice connection!!) and he saw you cueing the jump, he had NO questions about ignoring the toy 🙂 Yay!
So when using the toy in your hand while cueing the wrap – have the toy already in the hand that you with throw with, so there is no toy transferring when you are also sending. That way he can read the cue and not ask questions about whether he should look at the toy or at the wing.
He did super well with the placed toy – no questions about wrapping the wing because the send mechanics were clear (no toy hand switches :)) When placing the toy past the jump, let go of his collar and reward him for *not* going to it 🙂 it might be easier to go to the spot, put the toy down, then give cookies as you walk back to your start position.
>Lately he has been more reluctant to immediately bring back the favs…>
To keep the retrieve going, be sure to do lots of play play play when he brings it back, then maybe even let him have it again. We tend to lose the retrieve when we take it away pretty quickly to go back to the next rep, so the teenagers keep it away from us for longer because they want to keep playing 🙂 You were doing that in the wrap proofing video and he was really good about bringing the toy back.
I agree – the smiley face went great! A big reason for the success was that your connection was SUPER clear!! Big eye contact while you were moving, low arm that was back also it did not block connection, verbals delivered to him, just lovely!!
On the soft turns, remember to keep the arm low and out of the way like you did with the wraps – it was a little higher up so he was looking at you a little bit more on those reps.
And I will point out that he really had no trouble with the toy in your hand here – because you were not switching it around 🙂 He did look at it at one point after a wrap because your hand movement looked liked you were going to throw it like you had on previous reps. But you didn’t throw it or say ‘get it’ so he kept gong to the tunnel. Good boy!!! You were tending to start the throw before saying ‘get it’ which contributes to why he looks a you a bit when the arm moves in a throw-like way so try to say get it before throwing the toy.
You can add a little more distance to this game if you like – it will challenge you to maintain the fantastic connection while moving even faster 🙂
The wrap proofing game is going well. You can let him hear the verbal 3 or 4 times as you hold onto him before letting him go – that will help him process it better as we add more and more challenge.
For the tunnel reps – the tunnel verbal is all you need on those reps (he will layer the wing to get to it). You don’t need the wrap verbal then tunnel because he won’t be sure which you want. At :58, for example, you can see him start to wrap then go back out to the tunnel.
>We have a slight disconnect then going to collar grab. >
Thanks for leaving that in! When he did that and grabbed for the toy, I think he was avoiding the collar grab. You had given him a cookie then gotten the toy ready then reached for him -at which point he avoided it. He might be avoiding it because he doesn’t want to be moved around by the collar or pulled back? So when you are ready for the next rep, you can use a cookie to line him up at your side, then slide your hand to his collar and simply hold it – no moving him around, and when you start the verbal, don’t pull back (and I don’t think you need to say ‘ready’ because he starts moving around on those). That can help make the transitions smooth and clear, so he won’t avoid the collar hold or try to grab the toy 🙂
Great job here! Have fun at the seminar!!
Tracy
Oops, forgot to answer this:
>Do you prefer 1 game per video? or can we do different games in one video?>
I am happy either way! Whatever is easiest for you is great!
T
Good morning!
>I think the every two weeks will be more for me… just to make sure we get everything in without rushing him.< 2 weeks is very civilized because it lets the baby pups learn without the pressure in the humans trying to get it all in! The game went really well here! He drove ahead beautifully and was a super tugger! His little foot trying to smack the toy when you were holding him on the first rep was the cutest thing ever!!!! You can use a longer toy so you can keep the tug lower wen you tug with him - that way he can keep his head lower and pull back more to tug, and you won’t hurt your back leaning over as much 🙂 You can tie another toy to the one you had here, to make a toy that is 3 or 4 feet long. My only suggestion is that you can let go of him sooner: he was focusing forward then looking back at you, so try to let him go to get the toy before he looks back at you. You can start adding your movement by walking forward! For the food and toy stuff: You can have exactly one boring kibble in a cup on a shelf in this room somewhere away from where you are playing with the toy… play a bit of this game with the most exciting toy 🙂 then after a couple of reps, give him that one boring cookie - then go right back to the big party game with the toy. Using fur on the toy might be very enticing when boring cookies are around! And if he has trouble going back to the toy even after the boring cookie - you can give him the cookie in a different room then run back to this training area to play with the toy. We will start by keeping the toy and tug separate then gradually move them closer together so you will be able to use both in the same session 🙂 Nice work here! Tracy
Hi!
>So I have done alot of switching between the two and he will stay engaged and working with food when a toy is around now. As long as toy comes out frequently as a break in between.>
Great! You are doing a great job, the food driving is building really well! You can mix in lower value food so it starts to build value as well!
>like this he tends to back away from toy when he thinks I am going to throw it – think he wants a head start,,,,, so like this idea>
That is totally possible (backing away to get the throw :)) so working in the lineup at this early stage of training will help get clean starts to a lot of the games.
>I agree which was why I was surprised this top nstructor did it.>
A lot of top instructors set pup up to fail with distractions that are too hard, so you can help him out by adding distance or asking the distraction to move further away.
>He generally doesnt seem to notice static things in his environment when he understands and is engaged.>This is good to know! You can add in moving distractions at more of a distance or moving very slowly.
Looking at the shaping in arousal video: He did really well going back and forth between the toy and food, and offered behavior nicely even in higher arousal. Super!
Keeping your hands still will help him offer more behavior. I think you were trying to place a cookie to get him to move, but that was actually teaching him to watch your hands and stay there til you put another cookie out 🙂
You can also use tossed treats as the reward to get him moving when offering behavior – when he interacts with the object, mark and toss the treat off to the side rather than hand it to him because handing it to him encourages standing still facing you.
Prop sends:
Trying to figure out how to be able to throw the treat without it disappearing into the crack definitely adds challenge! Having several mats out might have obscured the prop in terms of which thing you wanted him to touch. Having one mat instead of several will be helpful, if you have something big enough. For the prop send game, you can also reward from hand with the treats or toy after he hits it (which will solve the disappearing treat question for this game :))
Two bowls:
Definite improvement in this game! He was offering going back and forth really well. Yes, he was looking at the hands a bit so you can move them into your lap, then reach out to place the cookie after he starts moving towards the next bowl. If he can ignore the hands in your lap, you can add in the upright for him to go around!The hand target game is going really well too! Nice job getting the target low and visible for him to drive to. Super! He is ready for next steps – We will use this game in a few weeks, so you can ignore it until we get ready to use it again 🙂
Great job here!!
Tracy
Good morning!
>Thinking we need to take a day or two off from foot target. Tried the hat, a bag and then the mat I mentioned. I went too long on the mat session. Maybe some latent learning will help.>
Latent learning is magical! But also, you had a big breakthrough here!
The hat video is private so I couldn’t see it, but I am guessing it was similar to the bag video. You had a nice transition into the shaping on the bag, but then you waited a little too long to reward and he went into his ‘chill with momma’ behavior 🙂
You can split the behavior a little more and reward the moments he looks at it – by tossing the treat a bit away so he can easily turn and look at it/head back to it .
That is exactly what you did on the mat target video:
The BIG breakthrough was at 1:01 on the foot target mat video when he was in a down but you rewarded for looking at it which got him back in the game then tossed the treat which got him out of the down and moving. That was a huge lightbulb moment and he was able to offer foot targeting for over 2 more minutes! YAY!! Lots of rewards!
For now, you will want to keep the rewards early for the targeting (as he is looking at it, heading towards it, or just barely arriving at it – mix it up to keep it surprising in a good way!) so he doesn’t offer his ‘chill with momma’ behavior 🙂
Tow bowl game:
Lovely session, adding the cone went super well!! He seems to be showing us that he is a righty 🙂 He was 100% perfect going from your left hand to your right hand (turning right). When he was going to his left (from your right hand to your left hand), he would slide between you and the cone when there was room to do it. I love knowing a side preference because it helps us strengthen both sides and teach new stuff more easily!
In this game, when he is going from your left to right – you can add a little more distance between you and the cone, bit by bit. When he is going from your right to left, slide the cone back in closer to you so there is a little distance but he can still be correct in going around it (not even room to slide in next to you :)). You will see that the harder side (left turns) gets stronger and stronger with practice – it is like us humans learning to write with our non-dominant hand.
Driving ahead: nice transition to the line up with the cookie moving hm into position! It was good practice going from toy to food to toy, also!
He was definitely driving ahead and focusing forward perfectly, no questions! No need to run faster or sooner, you were great.
For now, this can be a game that goes ‘on the road’: where can you take him and this game to safely play it? If you have grass outside and warm enough weather, you try it outside 🙂 Or a long hallway with carpet so he doesn’t slip? If he is in a group puppy class, you can try it there too (with a shorter distance and maybe on leash so he can’t go anywhere :)) The craziest place I take this game is to the vet’s office, to play it in the exam room while waiting to get puppy vaccines LOL!!
Drive to handler went great too! He is so good about going back and forth between all of these games <3 Great job with the low hand and pivots. You can combine this game with the blind cross game: throw the cookie, do the blind as he starts moving to you, then decel, then pivot when he gets to you. And you can take this game on the road too - different locations are always good to show the pup 🙂
Great job here!!!
Tracy
Good morning!
Driving to your side looked really strong here – excellent reward placement, nice and low with such a small pup!
Adding the pivot went great too – it was a little harder to keep your hand low so her front feet came up a little but she turned really well with you!
Because this went so well, you can add more of your motion. After tossing the start cookie, you can start walking the other direction. When she eats the start cookie and is moving toward you, let her see you change from walking to being stopped (decel!) and drive to your side then pivot. I am sure that will be easy for her, so you will be able to go to fast walking and jogging, as long as you show her clear deceleration as soon as she starts running toward you.
The focus forward also went great – she was driving ahead brilliantly with you running, no questions at all! I am impressed with how well she can carry that huge toy back to you LOL!! It is a workout for her LOL!!! Since her retrieve is going really well, be sure to play BIG tug with the toy she brings back and then sometimes let her have it again right away – that will keep bringing it back valuable and so she will keep bringing it back 🙂
One thing to add to this is a “go” verbal: when she is focusing forward, you can starting saying “go go go” then let her go – that will build the foundation for the Go verbal on course in the future! And you can still ay ‘get it’ as she closes in on the toy.
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
>Since she was being so mouthy I quit holding on to the harness at the start and worked on getting a connection without holding on to her. >
That was a good decision: keep it fun and teach her the game, without arguing about holding the harness.
>She wears the harness all the time so she should be quite used to it. When she is in the house it has a short (4-5’) light rope attached so that I can manage her behavior better. I’m thinking that the shaking could have been a result of her “tugging” behavior – dragging around belly to the ground on the tug toy.>
That is possible – if she was doing the “Swiffer” move while tugging 😂 then she might shake it off after standing up LOL!
>Her set point jumping doesn’t look that smooth. Do I have the jumps to close/far apart?>
It was a super good introductory session!!! Excellent stay and rewards, and she understood the assignment of bouncing the jumps and going to the reward spot. Super!! She was sorting out what to do with her movement and at 1:23 she was MUCH smoother!
You can do 2 things with the set point: use the bowl or MM, but move it further away.
But ideally, move to the moving target as th reward from the pre-game. You will see that the moving target will work really well to help her power off her hind end and lower her head. Some of the un-smooth parts on the video were because she was sorting out how to stop to get the cookies. The moving target promotes more power/not stopping so you will see a change in her jumping style.Great job!
Tracy
Hi!
>It feels kind of like a high class problem to have but it does likely mean it might be a while before toys are a reinforcer for work.>
It is a similar training puzzle to what you mentioned about the pups who prefer food to toys, or toys to food, so we make the less preferred thing the ‘job’ which we reward with what they want. I think what you describe is more similar to the pups that want work or toys but not food, so we build value for food while acknowledging it is not (yet) the reward.
So for example, a pup that doesn’t want cookies as a reward gets to do a ‘work’ thing (wrap a wing for example) then eat a cookie (still work) then gets the real reward (toy, for those dogs).
What happens is that the food very quickly increases in value until it does indeed become a reinforcement for real. My dog Contraband is a great example of that! Work + frisbees built his love for food, and now he is a true piggie and will work/train/compete for food.
>I feel like I need to figure out how to make the opportunity to work contingent on toy play.>
This is the key! The ‘tug’ is what we are shaping, not what we want to actually shape LOL
Setting this sequence up so the work and the food/more work sandwich the toy play, to increase the value of toy play, will flip things around. Thankfully he does like the toy play already, so I think it will be fun to do this and work very quickly.
So tossing out some ideas, it can be something like this:
Toss a treat, get him to tug, then as a reward for tugging: you can offer a ‘work’ opportunity like going around his cone (he seemed to really like that!). Then as he finishes going around the cone: treat, tug, cone wrap. It becomes a nice loop with the tug as the work for a bit (because ‘work’ is actually the reward, from what it sounds like) Then you will see things shift: the toy will take on a ton of value and can replace the treat in the loop and will become a true reward in the shaping context.
For example, using the Cato board you had in the video:
Treat toss, tug…. Then you put the Cato down. He hops on, treat toss (pick up Cato when he gets off for the treat) then tug… then after tugging, cato goes back down to the ground. If he wants the Cato? He is going to be tugging really hard! And it turns out he is also going to have a grand time doing it (and probably release some good feel good endorphins too :)) and tugging will be the reward on its own then we can flip things to have the tug as the reward.Let me know if that makes sense, or if I need to describe it again (or put it on video) after morning caffeine 🙂
>He has seen the Cato board before but the plastic bin thing he’s never seen before.>
He did interact with that plastic bin like he’d been doing it his whole life LOL!!!! So cute!
Tracy
Hi! He did well with these games!
It is normal and pretty common that pups will prefer toys or treats at this age (rather than love both :)) but we can help build up the treat love!
One way to do it is to pair the treat with a toy he loves: after each treat or two (depending on the game) you can whip out a tug toy.
So for the bowl game – you can drop a treat in bowl 1, then when he eats it, drop a treat in bowl 2 – then when he eats that treat: toy party time! That can teach the skill and build up the treat love all in the same session (then we can fade out tugging as much when he is loving the treats more).
When you did the wrap shaping w/ toys: very nice session! I think part of the reason he was really into the small toy in your left hand was that it was small and he couldn’t quite get to it LOL! So a bigger toy in both hands will work great!
To help make the transition between toys smoother, you can make the first toy dead’ for a few seconds then activate the 2nd toy by moving it. Also, you can make a big fuss over the 2nd toy by looking at it and directing all your focus to it while making it enticing. That will make going back and forth into more of a pattern, and then you can put a cone or upright in front of you to go around.
>Drive to handler using treats – you will see his energy level is much lower when I use treats instead of toys. >
The skill of driving to you looked good but yes, I see what you mean about him not necessarily being super excited about the treats. So we can totally add in the toy and use both. There are two ways to do it:
– you use a cookie toss to start so you can get ahead of him, then the toy as the reward for driving to you
– you can use a cookie toss to start so you can get ahead of him, then he gets a cookie when he gets to you – then you bring out his favorite toy 🙂
Both of those will keep building the decel/drive to handler skill while pumping up the love of treats in training.
He loved the driving ahead game! Fun! The toy was small so I think he loved getting it but was not sure that it was actually a tug toy 🙂 So a longer toy will help tug – it is a fine balance with such a small pup, to get the right size of toy for throwing, retrieving, AND tugging! He was retrieving it well by the end so you can maybe tie a small light toy to it so you can tug with it more easily?
>Let me know if I was moving too late?
A little bit, yes, but mainly because you were letting him go too son 🙂 Be sure to hold him while you throw, let the toy land, let him look at it for a couple of seconds… then let him go (and you can move too). When you throw and let go of him all in one motion, he is not tracking the toy as well or building the anticipation to drive to it as well as he will if you hold him a little longer.
Great job here! Let me know if the cookie-to-toy ideas make sense!
Tracy
Good morning!
>She has always loved getting on things I accidentally left a kitchen chair and she gets right on the table, or she’ll jump onto a crate to get on the kitchen island.>
Ha! She is a natural goat!!!
The shaping went well. You can use this type of game to add in a couple of things:
– a marker that tells her you have thrown the treat (get it) as well as a marker that tells her when to take it from your hand (something like ‘yes’ or cookie for example :))That way you can fade out the clicker and throw treats or indicate when you want her to take it from your hand (all of which will be super useful!)
– you had a some cookie excitement to raise arousal in the middle, which is great! You can also incorporate a toy because it helps her offer behavior even when she is very pumped up – and when the toy is visible.
The behavior itself being very simple is perfect, because the added stuff like markers, presence of the toy, and more internal arousal will certainly make it harder!
Great job here 🙂 Tracy
Good morning!
>I’m not sure what you mean by this. “ make it stationary then toss a treat when she releases it.” She is NOT letting go of the toy that she wants. So, when do I toss the treat?>
You can get the toy stationary, then present the treat (before she looks at it). Then toss the treat. She is likely to let go of the toy at that point if she hasn’t already let go of it. It primes the pump for the toy going ‘dead’ meaning releasing it to do the next thing, and shifts the focal point away from that toy. And it rewards letting go of it too 🙂 So the treat is basically a bridge to help transition away from toy 1 and towards toy 2 (which she can have after she gets the tossed treat).
Driving ahead looks great! Do you have a taller toy (big hollee roller?) that you can throw far and she can scoop up more easily? The low profile toy makes it harder to stop for it when she is moving that fast.
>You can see she has zero interest in returning to me with the toy.>
Since she is going to beat you to the toy 🙂 you can change the game a bit: throw a good-not-great toy for her to drive to. Then when she is arriving at the toy, you turn and run the other direction while you whip out a GREAT toy from your pocket to call her back to you. She might not always drive ahead as well, but I think shifting gears into returning to you more is good and it doesn’t matter yet if she brings the original toy back 🙂 That will lead us to being able to take off the long line!
Decel to handler:
She is coming immediately on the name call which is great! And by the end, she was driving away from the targets pretty immediately too!
I think the targets to find the cookie might be too small even when they are grouped together – you can introduce the manners minder to this game or use the sit 🙂She is driving in beautifully to the decel and turning really tight with the pivots! Yay!
>Decel was hard with the toy as she swings wide when tugging. Is that a problem?>
Not a problem at all! She was tight to you on the pivots til you marked and offered the tug, so it was perfectly fine to swing in front to play. Super!!!
>I’ll been told she needs to lose weight so pieces are small. She requires kongs and chews at night to settle. Literally, she can eat an entire fidelis chew in one setting. Too many calories so now I’m limiting them.>
How does she feel about veggies? You can try using veggies as treats – bits of broccoli stems might delish? And have you tried freezing the songs/chews so she gets the same chewing outlet but fewer calories because it takes longer to get through them? I can research what veggies people have been using as treats because it is a great low calorie option!
Nice work here!
Tracy
