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Good morning!
Good session here! It took you on a bit of a detour into Go territory but that is great, as it helps him work on being away from you and driving forward when you are behind and maybe not moving as fast as possible.
He did figure it out with the handling help and it was appropriate to help him like that – he was better on your left side (in the 2nd part of the video) than on your right (first part of the video). That might be a side preference, or that he learned the concept, and also the wing was better on his line on your left side than it was on your right.
One thing for the next session:
You can reward criteria on the go jump by throwing the toy towards the wrap wing – he was meeting criteria on the go jump (jumping straight, center of the bar, looking forward) even if he didn’t seem entirely convinced 🙂 and even if he didn’t get to the wing after it fully – the criteria on the Go is relevant to that jump and he did it fully within rewardable parameters, so you can isolate that element and reward. When he got it, the wrap was easy and looked great!For the next session, start same as you ended here but reward that very first go with a thrown reward to help wake up that skill. I think the soft turns on the wing will be easy for him, so adding more value to the Go is perfect!
On the wrap away session:
>>played a few rounds of chase the ball
I definitely need more coffee because I totally read that as “cheese ball” was wanted to know how I could play cheese ball too hahaha
>>he really hadn’t recovered from all the thinking from the Fast Lines session. >>
That fast lines game really shifts the processing responsibilities to the dogs, plus they are doing a lot of running; I can see why he would be brain tired!
Since ‘flip’ means “away from me”, you can change sides more often with a lot of help early on. Spending too much time on one side establishes a turn to that direction, which often means the first rep on the other side if a failure. You can basically change sides every rep, with the helping body language, to help him understand that it is not left or right, but it is away. And the balance reps would then be ‘towards’. If the verbals mean left or right, we would stay on the same side but change the handler’s position. Since his mean towards and away, we change his position on which side of you his is on very regularly so he gets a lot of practice turning away and not left or right. Let me know if that makes sense 🙂
One other suggestion: the handling help was mainly foot rotation (cutting across the rear cross line). You did have some handling help with your hands like at :57 and 1:05 – at this stage, you can emphasize the hand more and the feet less because the hand is easier to fade than the motion/feet. That way you can keep your feet running straight as possible and a little hand flip helps him.. then no hand flip at all! And that little hand flip can be used as part of the handling on course, especially in a gamble!
>>He worked hard and got a well deserved snow romp after all of this training. He is sound asleep in his Dad’s lap right now!>>
Awww good boy! Sounds like he had a full, fun day 🙂 Great job!
TracyHi!
Great plan!!>> Trying to think how to throw food reward beyond jump 2, outside.
Giant chunks of string cheese? Or those round crunchy cheese snacks (the name is escaping my brain at the moment LOL!
>>My words will be port and star (left and right are just spin cues).
Port and star! Brilliant! Love those verbals!
>>I will be at QS this weekend, sans rv.😔 just a little longer! 16 Mar. I’ll have it for a seminar and uki trial down at Windi’s end of Mar! See you at QS!>>
OMG it has been a long time for the RV but I am glad it is almost ready!! See you soon!
TracyHi! Good questions!
>>Not sure what to say there to send her for the turn on the wing ? I can say go, go as she comes off the wing but wouldn’t a verbal soft turn, or worse a verbal wrap, cue her to come in toward me ? Go,go seems to accelerate her commitment on the line she leaves the wing on as predicted by my use of soft turn verbal to get the turn on the wing. I see in the instructions that you say to use a physical cue for the wing. Just want to clarify….>>
Each dog is a little different but for the combo game, I generally use the following verbals:
When I want the dog to turn on the wing and come in for the serp jump, I will send to the wing with a soft turn verbal and say it a couple of times to get the serp jump line. Stay tuned for how we use the wrap verbal there on next week’s get :))
When I want to layer and do the Go line, I just do a little “ready ready” moment then step to the wing, or start from a stay and use “break!” which is a ‘go forward’ cue. Then as she is arriving at the wing and beginning to turn her head, you can be saying GO Go GOOOO to help her stay out on the line and NOT serp.
Let me know if that makes sense!
TracyHi!
>>I said it would never happen, but you’ve finally convinced me that I need Left and Right verbals.
Awesome! It can only help to have them 🙂
>> I’ve found that sometimes I’m not sure if I really need a left/right cue or not.
They are a relatively collected turn – not as tight as a wrap, but still plenty of collection. So you don’t need them if the turn is a relatively open arc.
>>For example in the course map in the google doc link below, for the squares course would you say ‘Right’ for jump 3 and ‘Left’ for jump 4? Or do you think verbals wouldn’t be needed there? Most likely I would blind between 3 and 4. If it looked like it would be too hard for me to get around the far wing of 4, then I don’t know what I would do. Maybe I would try to change sides after 4.>
Of course it depends on the exact setup of the course and the individual dog but I would say probably not on 3, and only maybe on 4. 3 is a gentle arc so a right might be too much turn. 4 is probably a good place for a left to set up the weave entry.
If you look at square 6 to square 7 on that setup, you could use a left for square 7 if you wanted to go back to round 4/square 6.
Today>> in class I used left/right cues for the first time for rear crosses. Big confusion. Annie turned toward me even though I was putting a lot of pressure on her line. I think she understands that left and right are turn cues, but she probably thinks they both mean turn toward the handler. Should I stop using left/right in classes until we are perfect on the games in the VOTR course?>>
I agree, she probably thinks that left/right only mean towards da momma! So before adding them into rear crosses, check out the independent wrap verbals game I posted on Monday, and the Minny Pinny Part 2 – both of those help her understand that she can turn away on verbals too! And use them in class in situations where you can correctly name the behavior – in other words, if you think the handling supports it for now – use the verbals. If not, don’t use them til they’ve been introduced in the games.
>>She might have done it because she saw where I was when she entered the tunnel, but I’m still considering it a success because I gave the correct cue at the correct time.>
TOTALLY a success!!!! YAY!!!
>>I’m wondering though, what would you do differently if instead of a wrap at the tunnel exit, we wanted the dog to wrap a jump that was straight ahead after the tunnel exit? If I give my wrap cue 3 ft before the tunnel, then I want Annie to not take the jump, right? If I say Go 3 ft before the tunnel, then I want her to take the next jump in extension. How do I cue her to go straight out of the tunnel and wrap the next jump?>>
Great question! You are correct – it is the timing. The cue that happens 3 feet or so before the tunnel entry is for the tunnel exit only, and has nothing to do with what you want her to do on the next jump.
If you say GO 3 feet before the entry, you are only cuing the tunnel exit (straight). If you want straight on the next jump: keep saying Go 🙂 GO GO GO GO GOOOOOO! LOL! If you want her to wrap the next jump, the info changes depending on her needs:
– if she is VERY forward, you might not need to say go for the tunnel exit – you can switch to the wrap cue for the jump when she exits.
– if she needs more forward support, you can say Go before the tunnel to get her to exit straight, or jump. then switch to the wrap cue as she is exiting so it applies to the jump after the tunnel. If you give the wrap cue before t he tunnel, as you said: she should not take the jump.Let me know if that makes sense!
TracyHi!
For real, time has been flying! I don’t know where February went!! Looks like you have good weather, though, finally!This session was almost perfect 🙂 Yay! Her lines and turns were really strong throughout! Just 2 little details:
for your handling line, stay closer to the jump so you can reach out and touch the exit wing with a bent arm. On the first part (coming towards the camera) I think you were pulling away a little. On the second part (moving away from the camera) it looks like you had a much better line!
By running that line so close to the wing, you can add more challenges – you can start a little more to the center of the bar to send her to the start wing, so you are basically past the exit of the jump when she finishes coming around the wing. That will be hard: will she make the soft turn, or just run by it and chase you? And getting way ahead will lead you into the Part 2 game that I posted on Monday.And that challenges the send to the start wing – that was really her only question on this session, as you were sending on the last rep. I watched the clip a couple of times to figure out what was different: on all of the successful sends to the start wing, your dog side leg stepped forward to the start wing at some point before your shoulders turned to run. On the rep where she didn’t take it (:46) your dog side leg never came forward, so she was following the line of your shoulders as they turned and she did the last on the backside instead of the wing. The other bloopers were just getting her lined up again and then at the very end (:55) you TOTALLY had a great dog-side leg step and she nailed it.
So as you add more distance on the sending, really emphasize the dog side leg step and no need to turn and run til you see her heading to the wing and not the backside.
Great job here! Her serps look great and I think the Part 2 game will be very useful for independent stuff in the future!!
TracyHi!
>>’m not pulling her up, I’m hanging on for dear life.🤣 Jk. Sort of. She is jumping up as we prepare to start.>>
I figured she was rearing up on her back feet LOL!
>>I have started using softer, repeated cue for wraps and single down out verbal for soft turns. Typically have used a loud repeated verbal for GO! Backsides and threadles- repeated cue at moderate level voice.>>
I think the soft turn verbal should have a repeated element as well. Maybe it doesn’t need the urgency of the wrap or the go, but repeating it will help be sure she processes it and doesn’t miss it (there is a lot happening during a run!)
>>I’m not used to using go on a single jump when I will follow it with a turn. Thoughts? Do you think it would be helpful to have bigger spacing for this setup?>>
A bigger space might help but also you can say the Go sooner, and in this case, just once to suggest the straight line over the one jump. Part of it is training us humans to spit the verbals out nice and fast 🙂
T
Hi! Things are noisy in your yard! Are they building a starbucks? LOL!
>>We will need to stay at level 1 a little longer. This is his first time ever wrapping away from me.
Leevl 1 takes a long time to work through – Hot Sauce and CB are still at Level 1. I have no idea why Elektra figured it out so quickly and retained it (but I am not sad about it).
He did best on the reps where you had the verbal and motion starting before the hand motion, and you were able to get the hand to just a little flick on a lot of those. Yay!
His biggest question was about whether it was a backside or not – on those, you were either too in his way on the bar (blocking the front side) or you stepping to the backside – and that pressure on the line will get him to ping off to the backside.
So, let him have a visual of at least 2/3rds of the bar, you will be basically facing the exit wing of a normal turn-towards-me wrap, so taking the front side if very easy (because the challenge is not frnot versus back, it is which way on the front). And obsess on moving forward, slowly (this is HARD) because we all want to help with our motion by accident 🙂Since he was totally getting the idea of turning away here for the next session: switch back and forth more rather than do one side multiple times in a row. I want him thinking, “it could be either one, I’d better listen” rather than “it must be left because we’ve just done 10 of them” LOL!! So, line up facing the exit wing and throw in some normal post turns to hte left, for example, with some turn aways to the right (and vice versa) rather than post turn and turn away all to the same direction. That can really cement the idea that the verbals could mean either direction 🙂
>>Notice how he is getting better at his set ups after a failed attempt. 🙂
Yes! This was great! Keep giving the reset cookies – he got a couple at the beginning then you stopped. They are especially important on these games which are sooo hard.
Great job! Let me know how the next session goes!!
Tracy
Hi!
>>I had very poor impulse control yesterday and didn’t wait for your second round of feedback so I could have improved this reinforcement/exit line.
You can alternate games, so if one video is in the queue for feedback you can work a different game that has feedback on it already. That way each session can really build up faster without repeating things that can be changed up 🙂 and also it allows for more time for the skills to cement!
>>His initial wrap to start the sequences was fairly wide so I’d like your thoughts on that.>>
Part of it was a criteria thing – the placement of the wing was just over enough that he had to turn really tight to find the line. So more verbals will help (you were tending to say the dig only once maybe twice, and then took off with no connection for a few steps so I think he was not really hearing the verbal and drifting to find which side he needed to be on – he turned immediately when you reconnected! So to help him, I think that you can start with holding his collar, saying dig dig dig a few times, then letting go before turning and running up the line with a little more connection. So even with a lot of speed, he should eb able to turn tighter on that wing.
>>I also kept forgetting about that second jump after the wrap. I finally got it>>
Yes, that was a good rep at :52 when he found the exit line and you rewarded for that – it is a critical piece and you can do that from the start wing to the first jump as well.
On the soft turns… I still think he is correct LOL! The line he would need to run from the wing to the jump on the right verbal is pretty extended, not really that 90-degree right turn that he did at 1:05 – but I think 1:05 is the correct criteria for a right verbal. The tree looked to be in the way for placing the jump, so you might need to change your setup a little -walk that perfect 90 degree exit line and put the jump right on it (which also provides a great distraction jump for the wraps :))
>>Towards the end, there were some scary world noises that he didn’t like but he kept working and picked it up after he realized it was an engine backfire and that they weren’t hunting red border collies.
That was pretty loud and he did a great job of working through it!!!
>> I did much better with my reset cookie here. Click treat.>>
YAY!!! And I am sure that contributed to him being able to work through the noise too!
Nice work! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>I feel so behind!!! Trying to do small amounts of several of the things to get feedback before moving on.>>I think you are right on track and doing well!
Fast lines –
A couple of general ideas for you here to help answer her questions:
– don’t start as close to the start wing for now, she is not quite ready to drive that far ahead of you yet in this game. Try starting one step away from it, one step closer to the jump – that can make just enough difference 🙂– organize your verbals a little differently. On some reps, you were giving the wrap verbals the whole time, and on others you were giving the verbal for the turn wing too early (I know – early! Usually we are all late LOL!) so she thought it was for the jump, not the wing. So, use a quiet wrap cue on the start wing, then give her one GO for the jump (because we always want her to take the jump straight towards turn wing here.
Then, based on her feedback: give the turn cue as you see her lifting off (then repeat it a few times).
At ::39 and :59 (soft right) – she didn’t commit because she was hearing the right verbal about 2 strides from the bar, so she turned on the jump. At 1:02, you did it as she was over the bar and she got it, even though the wing was closer – I liked the timing on that one!
Same with the wraps at :46 and :50: your check check was too early, it was a solid stride before takeoff for the jump so she turned on the jump. You were too early at :52 as well but you ran more, so she got the wing but I think giving her a go for the jump and then when she is lifting off, a turn cue for the wing will be the ideal timing of the verbals. Adding that little “GO!” element will also help on bigger courses, to propel her out on the lines when she is ahead!
Backside wraps
>>Definitely need to work slower on the backside wraps– or move the jump further away?>>
Slower, and on a slightly more angled approach will help. Starting her on more of an angle so she can access the wing without running across you will help her see it, more like what you did at 1:32. And the motion you used at 1:35 is spot on for the level of difficulty of this game 🙂 So for the next session, start on even more of an angle so she can see the whole wing, but use the motion you had here on the last rep, that was great!
The backside slices look good! You can add a bit more motion now, jogging up the line. And if she is fine with that, you can go to step 3 which is front side cue versus backside cue. I would start that step 3 session with a front side cue, so she realizes that the front side is ‘in play’ and does not get herself into a backside vortex 🙂
When you start her, try to convince her to keep all 4 feet on the ground – try not to lift her up by the collar (or let herself stand up) as it changes her weight shift to her forehand when she starts moving and can mess up the balance for turns.Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
Yes, I totally understand. I don’t have a puppy but I have spent some early mornings and late nights recently trying to deal with some of the bank stuff needed to get money into the hands of our colleagues in Kyiv who are running out of food 🙁 Horrible times all around and it is hard to be able to focus in more than one direction – but there are so many areas needing focus right now. Thank you for your social justice work!!!
>>Turned out I needed a nap more than I needed to train.
Well, a good nap can set up the best training sessions. I try to never train when I should be napping instead, so I support the nap decision!
And your session video looked really good!!! One thing I particularly liked was that you got the soft turns with very little lateral motion (on the right turns) and no lateral motion on the left turns – you were basically moving forward the whole time. So, body language did not really help the verbal and he was still excellent! And he had very little space between the wing and jump on the left turns LOL! I think he can see 2 jumps on this setup for sure, and you can move the start wing further back. That way you can be moving forward, a bit behind him, and you won’t need to decel. The only error he had here was when you were accelerating forward. So if you can start with more of a medium pace but without decel, he can get practice with the verbal overriding forward motion as you add more and more speed.
Since you are busy, you can skip around a bit and prioritize – these 2 jump wrap and soft turn games build into the exit line combo game
And then into the Fast Lines Challenge
which simulates what he will see on course 🙂The other games are useful too, but you don’t need to do all games each week in order if you are short on time – just do concepts in order, if that makes sense.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>I feel like there are things from the previous weeks that I still need to work on and improve. I then get overwhelmed and I feel like I start putting gaps in the training because I have missed something from previous weeks! >>
I feel this pain! I think we can prioritize so you don’t have to work on ALL the things and feel overwhelmed. And you can alternate days with the different skills – that way each skill gets a ‘day off’ to cement while you work something else.
Bearing in mind what I know is coming next week”
I like the Fast Lines game for him a WHOLE LOT because it directly tackles finding the line AFTER the turn, which will help him set up the turn before the jump – all with you being able to move.
The serp versus go game is not as important for now. The independent wrap game is also a lower priority. No need to put those on the schedule at the moment.
I would add more of the in the backside slice games so you can work the difference between front side cues and backside cues. That also helps him understand the turn cues and how to pick up the line to a jump rather than go around anything.
So if you get 3 sessions in between now and next Monday, focus on the fast lines game (no helping, and starting closer to the start wing) and some of the backside work 🙂 that will set you up beautifully for what is coming next – which should set you up for trials which is where we really want to see the good turns.
Hopefully that helps narrow down the list 🙂
TracyHi!
This was really interesting!
Great job breaking down the go versus left/right at the beginning, and the variation in arm position totally helped him. And that is fine for this game!He had a bunch of really really good reps… then got sucked into the dreaded THREADLE VORTEX hahaha I think the first couple of threadle reps were a combination of just having done a bunch of reps of the same thing, so he was offering different behavior – and at :45, :53, :57 it looked like you were in threadle position on the entry wing of the jump more than in serp position in the center of the bar. So he might have been offering different behavior based on different position, then just started threadle vortexing. I think the threadle vortex happens with some types of dogs because it is possible that it is easier to threadle to be able to jump away from you, than it is to serp and jump towards you? I mean, there is a lot of BC and Whippet in this beast, and neither of those breeds love to drive right at us over a jump. Threadle behavior is more of what a BC would do. I have never had a purebred Papillon go into a threadle vortex, so the Papillon side of him doesn’t get the blame hahaha
So what to do in those vortex moments? It is basically a plateau, and we need to break the plateau not by trying to get the other behavior, but by just doing something different and easy to kind of shake him off the plateau. It is easier to shake the dog off the plateau by stepping back then making it harder again, then it is to continue to try the hard stuff (which is what was happening here). So the vortex-breaker here would be to do what you did on the first couple of reps where threadling was basically impossible. Then take a break (which is great for vortex-breaking) and look at the video. Usually a position change helps when you come back to the next session, like getting further across the serp bar so he can clearly see you between the uprights.
Let me know if that makes sense! Nice work here, even with the accidental vortex 🙂
Tracy
Good morning!
Oh, this is SUCH a good one for him LOL! Turning tight to then pick up the next line is VERY hard when you are both moving so fast 🙂
First, I’ll just say that I thought he totally nailed the left and right soft turns – looks like he nailed every single one of those. YAY!!!!!
The wraps are a lot harder, of course 🙂 There was a massive progression forward in this game – compare his first line at :04 to his last rep at 1:48…. SO MUCH BETTER!!!! To keep getting the turn tight, we are going to have you help a lot less LOL!
I think you were helping too much – I know he is going to come around the wing, but on course sometimes he will run past things, right? So…. no more helping after the wrap. By helping, you were sometimes pointing at the jump, or sometimes saying jump, or sometimes throwing the toy too early (like at :17). To help him understand the turn and the importance of finding the correct line after it, 2 ideas for you:
– run forward, do your wrap cue, all that was great! But then be quiet and run away generally back towards the start wing. If he maintains criteria, he will exit tight enough to be on the line that automatically shows the jump – when you see him approaching the jump with no help, throw the reward. If he does not maintain criteria and misses the jump: tell him he is very cute, reset cookie at your side in front of the start wing, try again.
– move the soft turn jump in closer to the wrap exit line 🙂 Evil, I know 🙂 Looking at his exit of the wrap on the 1st 2 reps here, put the soft turn jump right there 🙂 He is going to have a decision to make about how tight he turns on the wrap cues!I think this will help build on the progress we are already seeing. For example at :36, he was turning himself and looking for the bar, rather than responding after you said jump or threw the toy. YAY!! And then he was doing it that on the other side too, like at 1:30 and the last couple of reps. Super yay!
So think of it as a giant “it is your choice, dude” game on the wrap exits: he either chooses the tight wrap for the party, or goes wide (no party). Of course, since this is really challenging, you can be watchful of the success rate: 2 failures, dial back the speed of your running (but don’t help with any indication of how to exit the wrap.
Great job here, I am excited by the progress!! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
Nice work on this game – it is pretty hard and you two did really well!!
Overall, I think she was responding really well to the different verbals!!!
One of the things she had trouble with were when you stopped suddenly – so try to stay in motion and not stop for now – you can decelerate and that will work up to being able to slam on the brakes, but she had questions and errors when you stopped moving. More on that below.
First couple of reps, left wraps, she committed nicely! Trust her more and keep moving back up the line so she decides if she will wrap and take the next jump, or not 🙂 You were waiting a little and I don’t think she needed that 🙂 Same at 4:52, keep moving as that is part of the challenge 🙂
When you moved to the right wraps (no problem watching the setup change LOL!):
She hit the wing at 1:18 – It was mainly caused by lack of connection (you were looking ahead and not at her) and she didn’t do it again. In a perfect world, we handlers would never disconnect 🙂 but in reality, we disconnect all the time, so we can teach her to NOT hit the wing when you disconnect a bit. I posted some of those proofing games for this in the Course Syllabus section for this week, in the Bonus Games section. My 9 year old dog would hit the wing and bar every time I disconnected even a little when he was young, so these games helped a lot!
At 1:49 – GREAT job staying in motion for the right wraps!! That is what you should do on all of them – cue, turn, run away and see if she can maintain criteria 🙂
On the soft turns to the right, you can totally reward approximations, if she turns correctly even if she doesn’t take the next jump – that next jump needed more info so she was sure she had permission to take it. You either needed to move more, of use a jump verbal if you stopped. Wen yu stopped AND got quiet, she had big questions. For example, at 2:07 – her turn was correct then you stopped moving and got quiet, so she wasn’t sure – you can throw the toy for a correct turn even if she isn’t perfect 🙂 You moved more on the next rep and it helped her completely 🙂
The soft left turn was really good! At 3:35, that left wrap oopsie was a legit mistake, she just didn’t get to the correct side of the wing. In those moments, you can use a reset cookie (calling her back to you, reset with a cookie at your side for the next rep) that so she doesn’t get frustrated and barky 🙂 She was able to fix her oopsie on the next rep – nice!!!
As with the soft turns to the right, either keep moving or use a jump verbal to get her to take the jump after the soft turn if you are decelerating or standing still. I think the decel on the soft turns confused her when there was decel and no verbal cue, like at 4:03 – she turned correctly but there was a big decel and no other info, so she came in. If you stop moving, verbals will help a lot to override the decel.
Check out the absolutely brilliant Katy moment at 5:14 where you totally pulled away too soon (something we handlers do in the real world) but your verbals were really good so she nailed it!!! THAT moment is why we train these games. Hooray!
When you changed us the start at the end, you can wait one more moment on those sends to be sure she is seeing the start wing and moving, before you turn and run. You were leaving in the opposition direction before she moved so she did not commit to the wing – it was not so much of a toy distraction as a motion distraction, then she grabs for the toy when she is not sure or frustrated. So give a big send and don’t leave til you see her move to the wing for a step or two.
And one more thought about the motion versus decel or stops… at 5:39 you had a sudden stop as you sent to the wrap and she didn’t go. The decel was a little early but the verbals were good – ideally we would NEVER mess us the handling by being one step early hahaha 🙂 but we can introduce the idea of “mom might slam the brakes too soon” by introducing the stop more gradually – decelerate as a you move forward a bit, then decelerate more and more and more forward less and less. The verbals will then override your physical cues – and she is definitely going to learn it because we are already seeing it happen at 5:14 for example. It will just take a few sessions to get her more used to lack of physical support.
With that in mind, I think you can change your start position on the next session, so you are pretty close to the start wing – that way she drives ahead of you into the turns more independently, and the handling helps less and less as the verbals take charge more and more 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>Not including video of these as I think they are insignificant; all were fine and as expected. Tight turns
Very nice! Great!!
First video with the start wing – also very nice! You can add in starting closer to the start wing, practically touching it, so you are running forward into the wrap a bit more – that will add some more challenge 🙂 When you are ahead, you are able to handle. When he is ahead and you are driving forward… he needs to listen to the verbal more 🙂
On the 2 jump videos – these were really cool to watch him figure it out!!!
>>The 2 jump work is not perfect and is telling to me. 1) Guinness has a really STRONG go go command (his default by the way), so if he’s not going, then he’s patterning on the wrap from trng, regardless of what I’m telling him.>>
Yes – go as a default is a good thing! When you do the GO reps on this game, 2 things to help:
– place yourself outside the wing of jump 1 as you move up the line. When you got caught behind the wing, he was confused about whether he should go or not.
– be sure to throw the reward out past jump 2 for the go. You were rewarding back on you, so he was go a little then coming back because of the reward placement. So for the Go, always throw the reward. The reward for the wraps will be from your hands, which is part of how he will learn the difference.Also, if his default is go, don’t worry about it as much for now – all you’ll probably need to do is run a little more and he will go go go go very easily (BTW, my preference for young dogs is that they have a LOT of go early on, because we add in the turns and end up with GREAT balance of go versus turn :))
Thinking about the rewards… I don’t know him well at all, but I think toys are more reinforcing that treats for him? I wonder if we can use a toy instead of food here, to make the reward higher value for the collections, which are not naturally as much fun as the go go go 🙂 So you might need 3 hands for this: throw cookies for the Go reps, and have him come back to you for a toy for the wraps. Yes, the toy will be more stimulating but he is ready for it!
>> 2) He’s much stronger jumping and following thru to the left than to the right (I noticed this before when I first started rear crossing – he couldn’t go to the right until I trained a switch).
Meaning, he tends to go wider when turning to his left? He was wider turning to his left on the 2 jump setup, and collected better turning to his right here.
>>Also noticed wing wrap getting wider (I’ve seen this before when working more than a few reps).
On the 2 jump game, you did a great job of reinforcing the approximations to shape the behavior. Most folks would not be nearly as patient and would get mad at the wider turns. Instead, you rewarding him for coming back around the wing: any rep where he came back around the wing and did not take the 2nd jump got rewarded. And it was working!!!! The first 2 videos with the 2 jumps had wide turns, but you were rewarding and shaping.
Then the 3rd video – boom! He started off with a collection on the takeoff side of jump 1 on the wrap to the right. YES!!! Then on the last video, he offered takeoff side collection to the left at :18! And collection to the right as well after that!!!! YESSSSSSS!!!
I see this as enormous progress. It is a REALLY hard game especially for dogs with a lot of natural GO and you can already see progress 🙂
>>And son of a gun… I see that I am rewarding (at least with food) in front of me instead of to the side. Even in the videos, I start trying to keep him to my side, but I need to work this big time!>>
I think rewarding at your side in front of you for the wraps will be fine, as long as it is from you hand versus throwing for the Go reps. And yes – make clean starts, as those are the most successful ones. Don’t worry about a stay, I think the collar hold will be good 🙂 And soon enough we will add in a start wing.
>>Should I keep working the 2 jump exercise until I get 90%+? When I’m relatively sure he’s listening to verbals? Should I do collar grab also?>>>
Yes, I would do this same game at least one more time, exactly as you did it here (maybe with fewer go reps) so that we see more and more of the collection before jump 1. And either he will nail it and you can add a start wing after that, or you can repeat the session one more time 🙂 It is an important concept, so it is fine to do it a few times.
You can also take the wing-jump setup and start working the soft turns (left/right) because you will use those a TON on course too!
Did I read things correctly that you will be down at Quicksilver this weekend? Me too! If so, are you bringing your RV?
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
