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Start with a crate or Klimb right inside the door as a reinforcement location: comes in, gets rewarded, goes back out. Then move it more and more inside the house. And sometimes he comes in and gets a huge treat pile on the floor and the session is over 🙂
T
Good morning! Welcome to you and Brynn! I love that she still has that puppy energy 🙂
Have fun!
TracyHi!
Hi again!
>> I’m no longer getting abuse screening questions at the doctor so I’m totally satisfied with that 🤣.
That is actually a massive triumph, no joke!!!!
Tugging from hand – the strike went really well. The out is harder for him so the immediate strike after he outed was good! Using a slightly shorter toy will help get that underway so he doesn’t continue tugging on the long handle (clever dog LOL!)
Try to be stationary with the toy when you are cuing the strike from your hands in front of you, more like you were generally when it was off to the side.
He liked whooosh with the toy LOL! Fun!!!!
About the victory lap at 2:15 – it is possible that he needed a break – 2:15 of tugging is a bit tiring so I am not surprised that he called a quick Uber. You can do a couple of little things and keep the sessions short – and cue a victory lap. Literally tell him to take the toy and the Uber and go for a run, and do NOT try to call him back. Enjoy the beauty of his athleticism. And if he tries to come back to you before you ask him too, send him back out of a run. Putting it on cue will help reduce the frequency of it (counterintuitive, I know) and it will also add to the list of activities that you can use in reinforcement procedures! All of my dogs have ‘go for a run’ with the toy on cue, it has really helped make the sessions more efficient.
You can make training sessions shorter, leave him wanting more, use your ‘go for a run’ victory lap cue and also we can begin installing loops with the tug toy so that he brings it back and laps less. How does he do in terms of going back and forth between food and a tug toy?
The catch is looking good – one tweak is to throw lower – as we build it, it is not something where he has to leap up to catch it because he might break himself – it is thrown towards him, sometimes behavior him, but we will want to work the mechanics so that he does not leap up high for it.
>>Do you have marker cues specific to your frisbee?
No, they are the same as I would use for any other tug toy. When I am actually doing disc, I have a process that tells the dogs when they are allowed to start running straight for a disc throw but I don’t use that in anything other than disc throwing games like UpDog.
>>I foresee the words here being a problem for me. I already want to stress about something. Get it has been my go to for toy on the ground versus me running with a toy so I’ll try to keep that as clean as I can. I’ve worked strike in the past and think I can keep that one clean because it’s unique>>
I think you did fine here with the words! Be as clean as possible without getting too obsessive.
>>I plan to do more dock diving this year and for dry land I want to work jumping/popping up to bite a toy/frizz. Would you use strike in that situation or a new word? #overthinkersanonymous>>
Yes – when I am doing pop up for the frizz in my hand, I will say my bite cue but in that specific instance, I will also have my toy & hand already in the air (not moving, just located where the dog should leap to).
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
I don’t care what Noodle said about today, I want it to be a No Bones Day but yet… it is a Bones Day LOL!Great job with the food procedures. The main thing I am going to bug you about is sayin the word *then* moving the hand to place the reinforcement, You had it flipped for the most part, doing hand-moving-then-word. So to strengthen the words and be as clean as possible with the mechanics: have the cookie ready but keep your hands still until a heartbeat after you said the word, so search, snacks, catch, whoosh. Those are all great choices of words!
For the catch:
>>I’ve seen other trainers note that tossing food to face can raise arousal.
I don’t use it to raise arousal, as a blanket statement. It is simply a reinforcement procedure – the dog will let us know if it raises arousal or not. It *might* raise arousal with some dogs? But generally I use it as a way to reinforcement certain behaviors, so no worries about if it raises arousal or not. Reinforcement is in the eye of the reinforced 🙂 and arousal is based off of that.
>> I don’t feel like it raises his arousal because he’s so uncoordinated at it. He can catch the frisbee and bumper at high speed and height so I don’t quite understand how it doesn’t carry over but apparently it’s not the same
The food is MUCH smaller and there is a different coordination needed for it. He does not actually have to catch it – throw it more behind him than towards his mouth. It is more about being location-specific and not about actually catching it.
>>Some observations I had. I’m not sure my snacks and whoosh look different enough>>
I agree, the whoosh does look too much like snacks – for the whoosh, there is more motion so keep your hand moving so he follows it after arriving at it and continues to follow it. Snacks is a stationary hand at your side.
>>I left a point in where he ran off. Not sure if he got spooked or something else happened that I didn’t observe. He’s really bad if he thinks he will be put up for Callie to work about coming back to me. I’ll usually get Callie out like I did here to show him he’s not going up.>>
Was that at about 1:00ish? He did look spooked about something. You can use reinforcement procedures to help him understand that going in a crate or on a Klimb still means reinforcement in in play (it is a great opportunity for more ‘catch’ or using a MM!)
Onwards to the toys!
TracyGood morning!
Thanks for the videos! These look really strong!
Laci is so cute!!!! I had to watch the video a few times because her cuteness was distracting LOL! She seemed to think this session was WAAAAAY too good to be true LOL and kept offering the down (and that is fine for now :))
Well done to you for making sure you said the word and *then* moved the hand – it is harder than it sounds LOL! You wanted to pump the hand a little bit before the catch word, but then you caught yourself and you were clean there too.
The MM part was also great, she totally thought it was the down behavior and that is fine for now 🙂 Because you mentioned wanting more motivation and less handler focus for her, I envision the MM being used partially as a remote reinforcement to get her faster in the ring, and partially placing it so that she can learn to leave you in the dust 🙂
The cat was cracking me up, strolling by then talking in the background. My cat would do the same thing, it is as if the cats know when there is a camera on!
Keko also did a great job! He is stunning! And I love his tail wagging. And the operatic singing of the others in the background was cracking me up and it is a great distraction for him.
He also seemed to think this was the best thing ever (free cookies! Ha!) He totally seems to position himself to be able to watch your face, and that might be something we really focus on when we add these into trained behaviors: making sure we emphasize the reinforcement procedures where he is looking at the line and driving away, rather than being near you or looking at you.You did a great job with him as well, in terms of focusing on the clean mechanics of the various cues. Well done! I am looking forward to the toy videos you mentioned. Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>1st clip – send to the ball, I’ve been using this instead Question is, what am I rewarding when I release him tot he ball?>>
For right now, we are just practicing mechanics and not rewarding anything specific – jut giving the dogs a good time while we get the words attached and the mechanics in place 🙂
You worked it from a stay which is fine for now, but you can also just hold his collar. We will be adding more to it soon! He did really well with the stay behavior and clearly the ball is very high value.
>>You can also see some of his I’ve got the food and the ball, which one do I really want -always entertaining>>
He did well when both were there! I like that he didn’t obsess on one or the other and was able to stay engaged 🙂
>>2nd clip – catch with a ball – 1st couple of reps always have the victory lap, then it fades
The Catch is also looking strong, the value of the reinforcement type has transferred to the tossing it to him. My only suggestion is to always have it thrown towards him. and not where he moves forward to get it. We will be adding behavior to it soon which will clarify it as well. –
The victory lap was no problem – it was pretty short, and seemed joyous 🙂 That is just a reflection of the reinforcement procedure where the catch has a bit of a victory lap built in at first. But then he seems to remember that it is inefficient in terms of getting the next catch or toy throw, so he brings it back quickly. Either way, he seems like he is having a great time and the victory lap doesn’t take hours, so it is all good 🙂
>>clip 3 – tug, again, the out can use a bit of work
This is going well – the mechanics here are the hardest part! You were clearly focusing on the word separate from moving hands, and clean words (I think I heard a ‘get it’ sneak out in place of the ‘tug’ word, but otherwise it was pretty darned perfect!) He did well with the out behavior and you were good about reinforcing immediately! If you reward with a treat, will he continue to tug after that?
>>We were at a trial this past weekend – did a bunch of work ringside on the food catch cue. Looks like it’s a good focus exercise for him>>
Yay! That is a really good application for it! And if he is reasonably good at catching balls, you can use 2 tennis balls and short tosses outside the ring too (if he is bad about catching short tosses and the balls go bouncing away… it might be a bad idea to use that outside the ring LOL!)
Great job here!!! Let me know what you think!
TracyHere ya go! It should also be in your email:
https://www.paypal.com/invoice/p/#C9HLP7DUZ3HK529ZTracy
Good morning!
>>When she’s stressed, she will take food but not toys – but activities like chasing are still fun for her. When we’ve done NFC runs or worked in unfamiliar places, I take a toy in the ring, run away and tease her with it, and the chasing gets her interested enough to work for the toy.
This is good to know and we will definitely incorporate that!!!
>>Food:
These are all good but the pill pockets just crack me up LOL!!!
>>Toys:
1. Big purple ball she can herd
2. Competition frisbee
3. Soft frisbees – Chuckit, WestPaw
4. Holey Roller ball
5. Squeak toys>>Have you ever tried a tennis ball – either a regular tennis ball or one of the little ones that squeak? She likes all of the things that are similar…
Also, for the frizzers, to add in chase – my Hot Sauce is a frizzer maniac but we can’t always throw the frizzers – so I punched a hole in the middle and attached it to a long tug toy – she loves to chase the frizzer on a rope and tug on it too! Might be something to play around with especially for NFC runs.
>>Activities:
1. Chasing
2. Licking my face/Find My Face game
3. Chasing & finding tossed treats on the ground or in the grass
4. Running
5. Digging>>So, all movement-based, chase-based activities 🙂 Perfect! We will keep that in mind.
Great job here!!! Onwards to playing with the various procedures!
TracyGood morning!
Thanks for the lists and videos, lots of good stuff here! And yes, I think these will help with the frustration behaviors you see because it makes things so much more predictable (and also helps up figure out what she is predicting when she gets frustrated).
>>She is much better about taking food at all times now. For a long time she would refuse kibble in new environments. She will still refuse kibble if overaroused>>
Will she play with toys in that overaroused situation, either tugging or chasing the tennis ball?
>>Throwing a toy and running to chase the toy makes it much more valuable to her than a dead toy
We can build that up, stay tuned for more on that in the next set of games.
>>she may not tug if I have chicken also. She will tug if I have kibble or zukes.
You might have to begin this with food in the room but not as part of the training – for example, tugging on one side of the kitchen while there is a small piece of chicken on the countr on the other side.
>>I have been taking her to other places and she is playing and tugging just like home!
Awesome!!!!! I love that!!!
>>>Activities
tugging on my shoe laces, tugging on my pants
biting spraying water, chasing a variety of things
1.Chasing
me, another dog, or the ducks
right now chasing another dog or ducks is more valuable than anything
2. biting spraying water-this makes her lose her mind so we don’t do it very much lol
3. she loves to tug my pants and shoelaces!! No toy, no problem, just grab mom’s leg. >>These are all great activities, I suggest you start to put them on cue so that you can access them more easily as reinforcement. For example, for the water spray – add a word to it just before you spray it 🙂 It can be SUPER useful to have the water spray available both as a reinforcement and as a distraction!
Same with biting shoes/pants, if you know you can elicit it then add a cue to it just before you elicit it.On the videos:
Strike – because she is little, I recommend holding the toy lower so she doesn’t leap up as much and can just drive to it, kind of like what you did at :40 and after it, when you were doing the drop it then strike. That was really strong! Jumping up is creating slightly weaker tugging (it is harder for her to grip) and we don’t want her to offer jumping up on you 🙂
Get it – she is driving to the toy nicely. You can use a 2-toy approach to get her to bring it back: when she starts to bring it back like at :27, you can cue a drop it and whip out toy #2 for her to drive to (strike!) or throw it the other direction (get it!). That will improve the bring it because it is reinforcing to do so. She seems to like thrashing with the hollee roller, so be sure to let her thrash before you ask her to bring it (don’t want to interrupt the fun LOL!)
On the video, she started off pretty good with the bring it, which means that there is something not all that reinforcing about bringing it, so the 2-toy approach might really help build that up.Toy Chase ‘shhhhh’ – since we are just working mechanics, you don’t need to wait for her to sit or look at you – you can get the toy back and immediately start the shhhhh again. She picked it up really nicely, probably because it involves chase which is one of her favorite things 🙂
When you did the ‘all done’ and walked away, she grabbed your pants – that might be a frustration behavior because ‘all done’ might actually be a negative punisher (withdrawal of access to reinforcement). So even if you are walking off to give her a cookie, you are withdrawing access to positive reinforcement in the form of the action games, agility, etc. I personally don’t have a specific ‘all done’ cue for that very reason 🙂 so you can play your way off rather than indicate to her that the party is over. Then after playing your way off, you can go to treats, maybe toss some in the grass so she can sniff around to reduce her heart rate and begin to relax.Catch is going well! Just be as sure as possible to say it then move your hand – you were unfurling your arm before the catch word there, and we want to be as stationary as possible (or, don’t unfurl the throwing motion til after the catch word because there will be times we are in motion).
Food reinforcement: good choice of location for this session, it was really easy for her to see where the thrown cookies were!
Get it: This was strong, you did a really good job of focusing on mechanics and not moving hand too early
Cookie: this was easy for her, also good emphasis on saying the word then moving – you are really focusing on clean mechanics and that is great!
Shhhh – sheltie heaven LOL!! Be sure to give her a chance to swallow the treat LOL! This also went well.
Catch versus get it went well too – she doesn’t have to catch the thrown, but you can throw it behind her more so she doesn’t move forward for it to help keep it different from the ‘get it’.Tugging then drop the toy to the cookie combo: what types of treats did you use here? She did a great job going back and forth between tugging and food! I think this went really well and she appeared to actually be *patient* in the transitions – didn’t grab the toy until cued, ate the cookie, got back on the toy – NICE!
>>Also one other question, when she loses her grip on the toy and rebites should I say something? I saw her looking at me when this happened for permission, which may be a good thing>>
It depends on the context, but generally you don’t need to – you can keep the toy moving and keep it low. If food is in the picture, she might be offering a drop for the food? For the re-grips, that is one situation where I might use the “shhhhh’ moving toy marker because I want to encourage the dogs to really grip the toy and also because they are less likely to grip my fingers by accident 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! Thanks for the great lists!
A couple of questions for you so we can plan even more:
About the food:
>>If they are really nervous they can’t take the food. Either they ignore if or take it rapidly and then drop it.>>
Do you know what might trigger them to be nervous? Is it something like being at the vet? Or anything your might encounter in the training environment?
And in general, if they cannot take food, try to move them further away from whatever might be triggering the nervousness (if possible, it is not always possible!)
About toys:
>>Any distraction at all in the environment will distract them from playing with any toys. I am most successful at getting them to play with toys inside when there is nothing else going on. Introducing food into the environment pretty much stops toy play >>
This is not that unusual, and we can build up the toy play (because it is really useful!) so here is a question:
will they chase the treat hugger even if it doesn’t hav a treat in it? At least go to it, maybe pick it up?
And also, will they chase a ball even with some minimal distractions?More coming soon on how we can build up more toy play value 🙂
About the activities:
I agree with your assessment that those activities are valuable because of the food reinforcement component 🙂 Yum!>>They both would like to chase cars, airplanes, anything with lights. >>
We can use the chase element to build up some toy play- we don’t want them chasing cars/planes, obviously LOL! but maybe something like a plastic bag on a flirt pole, or a piece of fur on a long leash they can chase? We can get really creative and see what inspires the chase, because that can be super reinforcing!
Let me know what you think!
TracyHello!!! And welcome to you and your baby BorderPap!!!! One of the demo dogs is my BorderWhippet x Pap when she was about 3-4 months old 🙂 so fun! Can’t wait to hear more about Filly!
TracyHello and welcome!! I totally understand the accountability of a working spot LOL!!!
You probably won’t find much in terms of my US Open runs – I only ran a couple of things the first 2 days to get my baby dogs in the ring, and I didn’t enter anything else because I was in charge of making sure all courses in the 8 rings got built. It was exhausting LOL so I am glad the puppies got to play but I’m also glad I didn’t enter anything else 🙂
The pre-games looked good! They are both value-building games – mission accomplished! For the foot target – the tote bag (I think that is what it is) is perfect 🙂 Your click timing was generally spot on. And here and there it was a little early which is still fine in this case. There were a couple of clicks for almost-touching the bag, so especially if you might want to train running contacts: stare at the bag and wait for feet to touch 🙂
The target in hand looks good too. A suggestion on changing mechanics a bit: the target was in your right hand, so that hand can stay stationary out to the side, elbow locked. After he touches it, the left hand can come over and deliver the treat to him at the target (then move him away with a get it toss). That will speed up the delivery (you can have the treat in your fingertips of your left hand before you present the target) and will change the placement to get the target hand super valuable and also so he doesn’t face you while waiting for the treat in front of you. It will make more sense when we put it in context (cliffhanger!)
The space you used for the video is perfect for tomorrow night!!! Can’t wait!
TracyHello and welcome!!!
Sounds like he is living his best life and learning lots of things 🙂 there are a ton of games here, but they are all tiny chunks that are easy to do, so you won’t feel overwhelmed. I’m looking forward to hearing more about his adventures!
Tracy
