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Good morning!
>>1 – treat and then tug right after to build value for treats/food
2 – get excited giving her the treat, and moving the treat to make it more exciting (followed by tug after the delivery!).
3 – for the nose to target put it on the target (DRAT! I know to do that, me being lazy!)
4 – get on my feet. (Yikes! all the bending for the nose target)>>Yes – but bear in mind that it is really all about building value for food. The skills are very secondary at this point, because as you have seen: the skills won’t build if the reinforcement is not valuable enough. There are plenty of games you can work on with toys-only, so those will progress quickly. And the food-based games will progress quickly when food is higher in value 🙂
Tracy
Thanks for the video! A couple of ideas:
First, build the value of the food. Yes, she eats it… but it is not as valuable as the toy play. So, after every eat-a-cookie moment, I want you to play tug (1:1 ratio). Be sure she swallow the treat.Second – the energy of the session changed dramatically when you go to food. Yes, be quiet when she offers on the target, but then get exciting after the click! Praise, move the treat, have a little party (and tug!) Then back to quiet to let her offer, then back to party after the click. You don’t even need to click.
Third Feeding her away from the target is too challenging for now, she doesn’t quite know how to turn away from the food to go back to the target. So, after she boys, the target, bring the cookie hand over to the target and plop the cookie on it (this extra bit of movement will help add excitement too!)
4th – stand up 🙂 siting down, use of food being very calm and not super high value… she is offering a calm down and that is accidentally getting reinforced when you which out the tug (high value!)to get her moving again. Standing will change the energy and you can do the touch, cookie, toy loop with more excitement.
After a few sessions like this, you’ll see the food value start to change and then you won’t need to pair with the toy as much.
Separately, you can shape these behaviors with the toy too!
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>Well, I definitely need to improve my video skills>>
Stop beating yourself up, they were fine! You won’t need to re-do these games – just move on to the ones that will be played starting today!
>>We had been working doing a little training and once the food comes out . . . no toy interest at all . . . life with a Sheltie.>>
For now, I want you to NOT have a toy and cookies in the same session. Value for the toy is going to be built separately and cookies slowly added in. If we put cookies and the toy together too quickly, the dogs migrate to whatever is higher value (cookies for him) and learn to ignore the other (toys for him). So, build them separately for now 🙂
Foot target to the ‘prop’:
In this setup, if you want to play with the toy – have a very ‘clean’ environment meaning no cookies around, and the prop is not on the floor. You can get him to play in the clean environment, then introduce the cookies/clicker and when you have the cookies/clicker ready: put in the prop – and then the toy goes away, don’t leave it visible where he ignores it.>>Do I need only a front foot target?
Yes, that went really well! We just want the pups to smack it with a front foot or two. You did a nice job getting that behavior! One suggestion: either use cookies that he does not need to chew, or break those crunchy cookies into smaller bits. The chewing is delaying things 🙂
>>Should I back up and sit down with him?
Nope, I think the standing was good!
The nose touch is also going well – you can use the get it that you were using with the foot target. And you don’t need a clicker – just mark it and reward so your hands are free and you can be super quick. Also, as with the foot target, go for smaller cookies or soft cookies so he doesn’t need to chew 🙂 Chewing slows down the efficiency of the session and also he might end up dropping crumbs, which can be distracting for a pup 🙂
For this game, the next step would be to get you standing up – you’ll have to lean over so that the target is still at nose level, but he seems ready for you to stand up 🙂Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHowdy! You have a working spot… post up some video of this! The pre-game is a foot targeting game, so it is perfect.
>>Anything that I try to shape involving her using her feet (into something, onto something, shake a paw) seems to go nowhere fast, even with what seems to be high value rewards for her and even when she is successful she will leave the game.>>
I have some guesses but a video will make it easier. Grab a video of the good, bad and in-between and we will sort it out! My first guess is that there is something we can tweak in the reinforcement procedure 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
>>I’ve never brought the purple ball to a stressful place because she tends to knock things down with it,
Bring the ball! Try to stay away from anything too fragile LOL!
> but away from home, she will chase me but doesn’t want to tug without a lot of coaxing.
It is great that we have chase to work with, so I am excited to build on that!
>> yes, she likes tennis balls with and without squeakers, and she loves any tug toy or anything that can be tugged and shaken. She loves chasing tennis balls, but she’s the poster child for why experts say not to throw tennis balls. I use the tennis-ball-sized holey roller instead because it’s easier to grab out of the air after the bounce rather than doing a dramatic wipeout.>
More toy ideas:
put a tennis ball inside a hollee roller.
Tug on tennis balls, even if it is the long stick or oval with a hole that Kong makes>> I’ve never used a flirt pole with her because she has such a death grip that there’s no flirting, lol.>>
Ha! The flirt pole might be something you save for difficult environments, where she is less likely to want to tug/death grip but definitely will want to chase!
T
Good morning!
>>We do take all of this on the road and play at this at agility shows where we go just to acclimate to new environments. He is able to take treats and play with his toys in those environments so far. Maybe just a little more need to sniff, especially as I think his hormones have kicked in a bit recently.>>
We will be using some reinforcement procedures to help with the sniffing, as well as help with when he realizes just how much fun agility is to watch/listen to! They build very easily into patterns with food and toys 🙂
>>Also, he wishes I was smarter – at one point here I give his “collar” cue to put his collar in my hand and he’s not wearing a collar. He gave me a “you’re stupid” look >>
Ha! That is hysterical. He is too young to judge us already LOL!
He did really well with games here! Good choices for the toy and for the food. And no problems going back and forth between food and toys. When rewarding the out, try to either have the cookie already in your hand for a decent amount of time while continuing to tug, to ask for the out and dig the cookie out afterwards – the verbal and the hand-to-cookie-pocket were happening close enough in time that he might be pairing the movement of the cookie as the cue to release the toy (I have done that by accident in the past and the dogs learn very quickly to keep a grip on the toy until we reach for the cookie LOL! Oops!) I don’t think he is doing that at the moment and we want to avoid it.
You had a bit of accidental chase proofing at :51 when you dropped the toy but he still moved in the chase direction, good boy!
>>I think catch the toy (vs heads for cheeseballs which he loves) is his least preferred. I think it was taught with a frisbee between throws when I would play a 3 frisbee game with him and 2 other dogs so he would catch it then immediately drop it to get his next throw (which is what I taught them to keep the 3 dog game in sync). I think if I turned it into a catch then immediately tug game he would like it more>>
Totally agree, especially when you were close to him:
catch does not have the same drive back to you as the other toy games. And it could be related to the frisbee came you describe. Two of my youngsters are frisbee-obsessed and I am lazy, so I taught them that the friz drop needs to be at my feet in order to get the next friz throw, and that has helped ( same with the tennis ball :))You can totally present a tug game back at you after a catch to help build up driving back to you, or a get it game throwing the toy the other direction. Also, you can start him further away so he can move towards you wth the toy after the catch without you having to move – you can invite him to you but remain facing him, rather than turning and moving away.
Catch does not necessarily need a drive back to you but it sure is nice for getting the toy back, especially when we will have him a fair distance away
Toy races (and the collar-no-collar moment haha) look good! You can let the toy be ‘dead’ for gradually increasing amounts of time before driving to it. so that raises the value (ping pong the timing of letting him drive to it though, so it is not only all dead, all the time – sometimes the toy is moving, sometimes it has been dead for a few seconds, etc.)
One other thing – I don’t think he loves it when you let go of the toy during a tug game and he has to follow you with it – his body language is interesting there. I am just getting to know him, but in those moments early in the video when you let go of the toy and moved away, he did follow you with it but with an expression/posture of “what just happened?” and not a “heck yeah, game on!” expression/posture. It is really subtle – since we know that possessing the toy is not his favorite thing, you can maintain the tugging until you cue the out or present something else to do – all of that is valuable for him. Let me know what you think!
Great job here 🙂
TracyHi! These are great questions!
>At what point in a puppy’s life, do we begin teaching these reinforcement procedures?
AS early as possible so we can be as consistent as possible. I start using them as soon as I know the puppy will eat the treats and play with the toys 🙂
>>How does “snack” differ from the clicker or “Yes”?
“Snack”, for example, is very specific to the location of the reinforcement: reinforcement is available in my hand next to my leg. A clicker and “yes” are not specific about that – those are both normally used to mark a moment in time as one that will garner positive reinforcement, but they are non-specific about the location of that reinforcement. And, since placement of reinforcement is so critical, the location markers are super helpful. They don’t necessarily replace the clicker or a ‘yes’ but they can work in conjunction with them to clarify things for the dogs.
>>In practical use, when training eye contact, when puppy looks at you, do you click or say “snack”?
Looking forward to a discussion w/r to theses questions.It can vary, there are a lot of ways to do it. In the ‘get it’ procedure with food, we are basically clicking the eye contact then saying get it to toss the food away, so the dog can get the reinforcement and then offer more eye contact to get more reinforcement. You can also do this without a clicker or a yes – a snack or get it cue can also serve as an event marker like a click would, as well as provide info as to where the reinforcement is located.
Tracy
Hi! These went really well!
For the layering – I think you were trying to pull away sooner than needed, and that was causing him to ask questions. For example, at :03 and :21, you were fully turned by the time he landed from the first jump, so he was correct to respond by coming to you and not staying on the line. You were clearer at :13 and :29, by taking a step or two past the landing spot to commit him before pulling away, and he go it really nicely!
On the Go Tunnels – motion will really help! You were using a lot of decel a :37 and :49, but as soon as you started moving more, he got it nicely 🙂
You can also use more of your dog-side arm, especially on the sends: as he is passing you, your arm can ‘bowl’ him forward a little to support the line. You don’t want to fling it to the sky or point up in the air, but bowling-for-Aussies will help support the line as you peel away 🙂And yes… try to stop saying over LOL!!!!!
The threadles are going really well!
On the Threadle wraps – arm swooshing is fine for those as long as your feet don’t show slice – I think you might be leaning back a little so that might show a bit of slice rather than cotinuing to move forward. When you were swooshing but not leaning back, he did well and also the threadle wrap cues work best when you are away from the jump like at 2:37 and 3:16, and the threadle slices are closer to the wing – it sets up a clear difference in the positional cues!
You were doing a really strong job showing the threadle slices – good timing, arms, and stepping to the center of the bar! By the end of the video, he was really starting to nail them with speed from the tunnel AND your speed! It was beginning to look like what we want him to do at a trial – very exciting that he was able to do both with all that speed (and also take the front of the jump when asked). Good boy!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyThere were a couple of spots with those run-arounds that looked pretty much like what we did in class LOL!!!!
Good morning! Hope you are safely home and getting some well-earned rest!
>>we were all too busy at the Open to focus on anything else.>>
So true! It was pretty non-stop and I didn’t even enter most of the classes!
>>I don’t remember specifically training an off arm to turn away with Min
They read it pretty naturally, not much training required. If only threadles were as easily trained LOL!
Kaladin – I think the hardest part was keeping the toy in one hand, not switching it around LOL! Or you can stick it in a pocket – he had some confusion about when he needed to watch the toy or when he should keep goin.
These are looking really good! You can tell him to go tunnel sooner on the line after the pinwheel jump- as soon as he lands and looks down the line, you can start cuing it.
For the left/right soft turns, no problem turning right on the first run. Not as strong turning left at :20 but you were late – when you should have been cuing the turn, you were switching the toy to the other hand so you were a stride late and he had a takeoff decision already made.
You were earlier at :31 so now we have entered th Goldilocks Zone of trying to figure out what is “just right”: He is super responsive to turn cues, so that one had a little too much decel and was a little too tight. Try being more lateral so you don’t have to decel as much and also a slightly softer brake arm, but at the same timing as you were here.
Tunnel threadle – he is doing well here!! You can be more lateral and use a turn cue on jump after the pinwheel jump to help prepare for the threadle – you might have used one quietly? I could hear it when you switched sides and the camera picked up the verbals better.
I think you can keep running to the tunnel entry at 1:09 – you decelerated a lot and changed toy hands, so he was not sure if you were rewarding or continuing.
You stayed in motion nicely at 1:24 but pulled away more than he needed – try doing everything the same by running more directly to the tunnel entry and see what he does – my guess is he will be perfect 🙂Min was great on her runs! At :20, you said ‘good job’ as she entered the tunnel, and she came out looking at you. So try to give her a directional – GO! – so she doesn’t look a stride looking at you (and possibly judging you haha!) I think she also slowed down a little at :38 when you were quiet – you can also give her a ‘go’ before she enters the tunnel there too to get her to accelerate out of it
Brake arm looked great!! And she was great with her tunnel threadles. So, like Kaladin: cue everything the same as you did here – but instead of pulling away, try to run directly to the outer edge of the tunnel entry you want and see if she can drive in straight rather than have a couple of extra strides.
WELL DONE on the biathlon jumping!! You worked every inch of every line! Loved the double BC action haha! And you were connected and aggressive all the way through. The outside arm got her to tat 2nd to last jump nicely! A slightly earlier RC and call would have tightened it, but my guess is that the delay might have had something to do with the length of that course and burning legs/lungs 🙂
Great job!!!!!!!
TracyGood morning!
Super nice USDAA run!!! That tunnel-teeter line after the dog walk is kind of how we started CAMP this summer (teeter independence) LOL! The Blind can come sooner if you trust him to be more independent on the teeter so you don’t have to be as close to it. I am glad you felt prepared for the various challenges!>>I could BC whenNuptse enters the tunnel because the jump after the tunnel is on the path.
The jump is only a given on his path if your path supports it as well, and I don’t think that was the case on this setup – you would need your running path to be between the uprights of the jump after the tunnel.
On the training video, I think the BC timing was good – not sure if it can be any earlier there because your path is not between the uprights of the jump after the tunnel. So if you are earlier (doing the BC while he is in the tunnel) and in the right position heading towards the 2nd jump after the tunnel, you might pull him off the jump after the tunnel.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHello and welcome!! Do you call him Pony because he is tall? I like his height!
>> I promise to be more energetic next time 🙂 ! I haven’t been on camera training in a few years!
You were fine in terms of energy! We don’t need to be too energetic during shaping 🙂 You can also break off and play tug after 4 or 5 treats if you want him to be a little more energetic, but I thought he was quite perfect here 🙂
Good clicks – I think the session was better when you tossed the treat rather than handed it to him – you can build value by d0orpping the treat on the prop at the very beginning rather than delivering to his mouth, as that was actually pulling his focus to you and his feet off the prop But tossing back and forth worked best with him – you can add a ‘get it’ marker (anything you might already use with the other dog or any word/phrase that means Ronan can go get the treats) to the tosses, to begin building in words to the placement of reinforcement.
Nose to target shaping was great! You don’t have to move to a new spot after each click, you can stay where you are and let him drive back into the target (which also builds nice value for driving into you even when you are decelerated, which is useful on the agility course!). It looks like he had plenty of value for touching the target, so the cookie toss was a great way to reset him to then be able to come back and hit the target again. Two more things about the cookie toss reinforcement – you can add a ‘get it’ cue to this one too! And also, if you feel his touch to the target beginning to weaken because he is anticipating the thrown reward, you can leave the target hand where it is but change the placement of reinforcement: using the cookie hand, deliver the treat to the target so he stays very close to it to help maintain value for it.
And you can totally incorporate tugging before/during/after food sessions (you might be doing that and editing it out LOL!)
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
These look great!
>> I put the two games clips on one video to upload. I hope that’s ok.
Yes, that is perfect 🙂
Dice is so cool! Is he a color-headed white? (I am describing the color correctly?)
He is VERY keen to offer behavior and that is fabulous! You did a better job getting into the shaping part on the 2nd rep, it was a smoother transition from the toy to the prop: toy comes out, prop goes in, shaping begins. Lovely! And your clicks were really strong, spot on for his front foot hits. Yay! And is that a dust pan? Perfect! LOL!!! And I am thrilled with how well he was able to do treats and tugging in the same session – that is NOT easy for baby dogs and he was great!
Touching the target looks great too. You had a nice reset cookie toss to set him up to be able to then come back to the target in a bit of a loop, and that is great! You can add a marker word to the cookie toss, something like “get it”. We use those to help the dogs understand where to go for the reinforcement. If you find that the touch to the target is weakening because he is anticipating turning back for the treat, you can change your reward placement: leaving the target hand in position like you had it here, your other hand can bring the cookie over to it and deliver it right there at the target. That can keep the target value high in case he anticipates moving away from it.
Great job here! I am really pumped up for the live class tonight!!!
Tracy
