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Hi!
I am trying to visualize this and I think I have enough coffee on board: so you are at a really hard position down by the reward target, sending him away on your right: he is doing awesome (you are between him and the poles). But when you put him between you and the poles (threadle side entry) and he has to leave you and turn away – not so easy.
If I have that correct – no worries! Totally normal. It sounds like it is a combination of him being more comfy working on your right side, and also the sending entry is easier at the 5 o’clock position than the threadle entry is there anyway.You can progress the challenges separately, meaning the right side sends from that position can be harder. And the left side threadle sends where he has to turn away can be done at the easier angles and then gradually you can work up to the harder angles. I think it is pretty normal for the sends to be better than the threadley side for a while, and that is fine! We can keep working towards finished poles on the sends and keep them open for longer on the harder threadle reps.
If I am not making sense 🙂 send a video so I can make sure I am visualizing it correctly 🙂
TracyHello and welcome to weaves!!
The good news is that he did seem to remember what actual weaving was, so on the harder angles he was trying to weave for real rather than do the very simple 3 and 9 o’clock poles. So, since we don’t want to confuse him or frustrate him, I agree with your assessment that the next session should leap forward to angled poles. I think that going right into 12 and 6 angle is probably too big a leap for the first couple of reps, at least – I suggest starting at a little more of an angled entry (1:30 and 7:30 LOL!) for 3 reasons –
1 – to give him a high success refresher since it has been a while
2 – to be able to add your motion. You can start off walking then go to jogging and running. He likes to run run run when you run, so adding motion early on but with easier angles will be perfect for him
3 – to work in those threadle anglesHowever – if you get into it with motion and it is still 100% super fabulous… then yes, tighten the angles. There is no need to waste reps on stuff that is too easy.
The other thing to add on easier angles is bring the poles to new locations (and also next to the tunnel). That is an easy way to generalize!Great job here! This is going to be FUN!!
TracyHi!
Super session here, she did really well! The reminder session and then the teeter session both looked good – she seemed to be engrossed in which foot goes where and was not at all concerned with the boards. Yay! Keep mixing up which side of you she enters the game from – that was changing which back foot she was ‘looking’ for the board with on a lot of the reps. So, just mix up which side you release her to so she practices starting with a different back foot each time to keep it balanced. During the teeter session, when you got to be more than an arm’s length from the board, the backing up was much harder (added distance made it harder for her to ‘find’ the board with her back feet). But that is ok – you can keep working or more distance, but I think you can also get closer and add a little bit of tip to this – try it first with the wobble board then with the teeter. Her response will guide you as to how much tip to add and how quickly. She was sooooo focused on her backing up here that I think she will be fine and you can add in tip, bit y bit!
Great job!
TracyHi Helen!
One word came to mind when I was watching him drive up the board: WOW!!! He was fast fast fast and then did a nice weight shift at the very end. Good boy! I had to chuckle at :35 – did you see him notice how well he could see everything from up there? It was like he discovered a whole new world view, based on his facial expression LOL!!
Since this went so well, and the teeter was in a new location… add a little more tip on the next session. Yay!
And the 4on at the end was really good too! Keep working that to make it super valuable for when we start putting all of the elements together 🙂Great job here!
TracyHi! He is doing really well here, good boy!!!! This was a really nice introductory session on the channels.
>> And yes – I’m missing a pole! Should have a new set in a week.>>
I didn’t notice til almost the end of the video – I was too busy watching him LOL!!!
Good job getting him figuring out the channels, and getting the MM moved down the length of the channel to the end. You took your time with it and he was finding the channels really nicely! Yay!
He was really good about finding the entry on your left side on a variety of angles. On your right, he was great on the 12, 1, and 2 o’clock entry, but the 3 o’clock angle was definitely harder for him – that is where we saw him miss a bunch. On the next session, you can start him closer to the poles at 2 oclock, get some success, then stay really close to the poles and inch over to the 3 o’clock angle. It is pretty normal that there is at least one difficult angle of entry and this is the same one that my dogs have trouble with too LOL!! So, starting closer gives him less distance to slip into the channels further down the line.
There was not a lot of running in the session so a slightly longer session was fine. He did get a little brain-tired at about 3:19 where he went for a sniff, so you can give him breaks and you can also add in tugging between reps to keep him pumped up 🙂One other little detail – at 5:33, he weaved back to you (really nicely too!) so you can reward that for now and step out to the side more to to call him back to you without weaving, after he gets rewards at the MM.
Great job here! Fingers crossed for good weather!!!
TracyHi!
Both the channels and the 2x2s are going well!
This was a really nice intro session on the channels! He offered the wrapping on some of them probably because it was the easiest path to the MM and he had not yet experienced these. Plus, his frame of reference before weaving was mainly “wrap the things” so it was a smart offer. I give him bonus points for offering it LOL!
1:28 – 1:31 was a big moment in sports history – he leaned to wrap, fixed his lean to the center of the channel, you gave the cue at that instant… BOOM! Then it was clear sailing for the rest of the session. Really cool to see – I am not sure if you noticed it in the moment (probably, based on the timing of your cue) but it was really clear on the video!2x2s – These are going nicely too! Adding motion on the sends went great, no problems for the most part, you can probably add more motion too! The 3 o’clock angle is typically difficult for all of the dogs (and/or the 9 o’clock position too) but they sort it out with practice. You were good about keeping the success rate high and he did have a lot of successes from that angle.
When you start him on the threadle side, stand still, send, don’t move til after he is in the entry for now – you were doing the handling it a little so you can add challenge by having him just go find it on his own, then you click for right shoulder at pole 2.
The added angle of the poles – no problem at all! Yay! You can totally start there on the next session.>> We’ll be at TCOTC tonight so I’m going to try their channel weaves – definitely different and are in set of 4, so it will be 8 poles. >>
Do you mean it is 4 and 4, and you can separate out into 2 groups of 4? If so… just do 4 poles for now. If not – onwards to 8 LOL! You might need to do another intro session because it is so new to him.
>I don’t think I can do many more sessions in my basement – the surface is already looking too slippery for him>
Yeah, I feel that! I did a couple of sessions in the house on a small area rug, working without speed or motion on just getting Elektra to find the right side entries at 2 and 3 and 4 oclock when the 2 poles were straight – she didn’t need much speed, just needed to find them. So, that is something to consider a bit further down if he needs a bit of spot-checking on certain angles of entry.
Great job!!! Let me know how it goes at the club!
TracyHi! My teeter doesn’t have rubber stoppers (it is a Max200 teeter) so I just put the teach it at the end of the board.
How stable is the setup if the rubber stoppers hit the metal bar? And I am guessing there is not enough room in front of the rubber stoppers.
So, you might need a little arts and crafts, a good ol’ spoon and duct tape session?
I will also ask the people who make it what they do with teeters that have the rubber stoppers.
Let me know which teeter it is and I’ll let you know what they say.
TracyGood morning! This was a good session!
He did lose his speed a little towards the end – it might have been hot or the bloody tongue or he might have been careful after he had the one error where he went to the toy without the weaves. Overall though – very nice session!
My TnT is also being weird so I feel your pain with that. I still use it as a target even if it is not a treat dispense – for Contraband, it stays out there as a focal point and I throw a frisbee for the rewards because he prefers the frizzer anyway 🙂 So Fever might like that too – TnT as the focal point but toy as reward.
The session was really strong! The toy as the target on the ground was easy on the straight entries but it provided EXCELLENT distraction work on the harder angles! And that is exactly what he needs: choose to collect to make the entry even when there is an ‘easier’ option that he might find rewarding. He was terrific! He did well on the sends and when you added motion.
So, since it went so nicely and since he is not starting from scratch: go to the angles of the weave poles. Do a quick session with the poles at 2 and 8. if that is super easy peasy mac’n’cheesy? Next session is 1 and 7 for the weave pole angle. We want to add the collection challenge early on, because that is your main goal.
The other thing I do with the 2x2s which is an advantage over the channels – I move them someplace different for every single session 🙂 You’ll start to see that in the demos: all different spots around my house or in the agility field LOL!!! It helps the dogs generalize the poles rather than doing them perfectly in one place for a while then having to start over in a new spot. I think he is totally ready for you to just plop the 2×2 base in a new spot each time.
Great job here! Keep me posted!
TracyGood morning!
I will answer the easy question first:
>> Also wondering how to decide to use a threadle arm vs open shoulder (which I do for jump threadles)?>>
It depends on a couple of things:
First, how responsive is the dog to verbals? If the dog is GREAT with verbals, the physical cues are not all that important. Some dogs can process verbals better than others when the wind is rushing through their ears 🙂
Second, of course it is personal preference, but here is how I decide:
I train BOTH arm uses on jump threadles – the open shoulder/dog-side arm is used when it is an easier threadle and also when I am in great position. And for dogs that process verbals better.
I use my outside arm for the really hard threadles and when I am NOT in great position, particularly when I am behind the dog. That little bit of extra help goes a long way to giving info to my teammate – when I am behind on a hard line and yelling verbals, basically the dog is driving the bus at that point so I am going to try to give as much info as possible because I cannot/will not turn my feet at that point.So…. same goes for tunnels 🙂 But in general, tunnel threadles are ALL harder because course design has put the dog squarely on the line to the incorrect end of the tunnel and also has put my slow butt behind the dog. And, something about the way I train makes my dogs really love driving to the tunnel 🙂 So I almost always use the opposite arm on those as it is really clear.
Some other folks only use the opposite arm for tunnel threadles (or any threadle) and it is the only time the dog sees that arm.
So it is a combination of your preference, the dog’s ability to process verbals at high speed, and what works best for you and the dog.
>>On tunnel threadle do you have a demo video on progressing past the obvious end?
And when to graduate to a curved tunnel?>>We add all of that in the 2nd and 3rd MaxPup classes, building to sequences that involve full on tunnel threadles coming down a fast line.
Progressing to a curved tunnel is gradual because I don’t want to wrench baby dog bodies (dogs fall in tunnels ALL the time). So you can, separately from threadles, start to do “banana” curve entry or exits in training (I personally avoid the tighter curves of the tunnel that we see in AKC style courses here, in favor of softer banana curves.
And for the threadles on the straight tunnels, you can use the double whammy game where you end up threadling to the other end from way back on the other end of the tunnel. Then build up starting from in front of the “wrong” end and sometimes driving the pup into it, and sometimes threadling to the other side, with the motion progression of you walking, then jogging, the running.
And, when the tunnel is a bit curved and the threadles are good on the straight tunnel, blend the two together and the voila! Tunnel threadles on curved tunnels 🙂Let me know if that makes sense!
TracyGood morning!
It cracks me up that you call him Hairy hahaha!!!!And you should be able to see the Weaves class now – it took a minute for the websites to talk to each other, but I checked on it and you are definitely in. Onwards to weaving! Fun!!!
Good job on both of these sessions, he is really just such a fun dog!!!
On the end position session – because this is a new concept (stopping at the end of a plank rather than run run run), you can totally start off by being in front to help him line up then moving off to the side. It will be easy enough to get you standing and moving in coming days. He was doing a really good job about putting himself in position and getting his hind end on the board.
I feel the pain of accidentally clicking the wrong thing just once then having to undo it haha! I did that in the weaves class (I think you can see it in one of the demos) and rather than frustrate my dog, I decided to go in and help him as an apology for my error 🙂 As soon as I helped – he got right back on track and didn’t need help. I guess that is the good news and bad news about clicker-savvy dogs, right?AS he is building this skill, the one thing I think we can add to his targeting here is a specific focal point. Because it is mainly a foot target, he is looking at you – which makes the straight foot targeting harder because it will turn his body. 2 ideas to get him looking straighter, both involving reward placement:
When you reward, plop the treat either right down on the tape or just past the edge of the board so his toes are at the very edge of the tape. If you consistently get the reward there, Mr. Efficient is more likely to stop looking at you. Now, I say more likely only because he is quick enough to watch you move the treat AND look at the reward placement spot. With that in mind, another option:
With 4on dogs, I like to have the reward target attached to the board, somehow, when the teeter starts to move. That keeps their heads straight. The easiest thing to do is to tape a spoon to the underside of the plank so that the cup of the spoon is sticking out just enough for the treat to be placed in it and for him to reach it while keeping his toes right at the edge of the plank. I do that on the teeter for sure, so we might as well install it here on the plank early on the learning stages to give him a focal point.I know, a spoon and duct tape is not super fancy but it is cheap and easy LOL!!! Let me know if that makes sense, I probably have photos or a video of it from when I trained the Papillons (I will go look after I post this :))
Hooray for the wobble board arriving!! It is a perfect sized board too, for what we need it for 🙂 I am very glad to see he was super happy to get on it and move it. It is a little small for him to turn around on, but he will probably figure out how to do that within a session or two (the cookie lure is fine for getting him to slowly turn around on it).
Because he seems perfectly happy with it, you can add in other wobble board games:
– you can be further away from it and when he moves the board, reward by tossing the cookie off to the side so he runs off, grabs it, then drives back to it. The way to make the reward appear is to move the board 🙂 And if he starts to slide to do that? Even better! (I like sliding on the teeter because of the weight shift).
– separately from the jumping on, you can cue him to back up onto the board. If he has a back up cue, you can totally use it – start him all 4 on it and cue it. Then he can have his front feet off, then all 4 feet off. It might take a few sessions (or less, or more LOL!) but it is a great game for that all-important hind end awareness and weight shift.Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
She is a brave on, hoping on the middle to run to the top LOL! I allow those types of shenanigans early on, because I want the complete confidence on the board before it starts to move.
She did really well with you near her and moving with her – the big lead out made her head explode a tiny bit on the first rep of that (possibly trying to go too fast to get coordinated going up the board?) But then the rest of the reps were great and she was great with all the challenges. Super!!!Since you mentioned she has already seen a couple of inches of tip – the next session can totally start with that tip, adding challenges, and see how she does. As always, her response will guide us as to how quickly we can add more challenge and/or tip. And add in having her jump off the side on cue (which she was basically doing here and not really running through target position).
Nice job! She is making quick progress!!
TracyHi! I think sometimes when they freeze up on the dog walk, it is indicating a confusion as to which is the long board and which is the moving board. Mountain climbers will totally help too – I think having a table next to it will allow for easily getting her off the top of the board. Let me know how it goes!
YAY! Good update! Yes – next step is to go all the way around the clock on both sides. The 11-10-9-8-7- side can have relatively straight poles and the 1-2-3-4-5 side can have angled poles.
Then the next step is for you to add your motion 🙂
Have fun!
TracyHi! I think the Pet Tutor does make a quiet, pleasant beep (at least in comparison to the super noisy Manners Minder LOL!)
You can submit 5-7 minutes per track, per week of video. All of the info is in the Weaves User Guide 🙂
Have fun!
Tracy
