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Good morning!
>> above. I worked on the initial Reward worksheet (which I assume is for our own info and you don’t really want to see it)
You can totally post it, it is great for planning purposes 🙂
The threadle session went really well. She was VERY responsive to the threadle cue! I think she did best when you said it right before takeoff on the very last rep, in terms of timing and being ready for the threadle. Normally we would want to cue a turn on the turn jump but she didn’t really seem to need it here, and she also had no questions about the balance. Nice! Now, you might need to cue that turn instead of saying over when the bars are higher or there is even more speed, or when you go to the harder flat threadle setup. But she didn’t need it here! We will keep an eye on it and see what she says. It was smart to let it simmer 🙂
You can move the tunnel if you want more running room 🙂 the tunnel didn’t seem to be in the way here and your position was good, but moving it can give you more room to add motion, which of course adds challenge 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>Do you use a different marker for catch versus a toss of food purposely behind the dog (thinking I often reinforce back for a drop on recall or moving stand) or reinforcement placed behind the dog (as in the stays sometimes or again the moving stand)?>>
yes – tossed versus pre-placed are two different markers 🙂 Catch is only for tossed (dog should remain looking forward) and ideally is is sorta behind the dog (my aim is not always great) and ‘behind’ is for the thing I left on the ground behind the dog 🙂 o the dog should turn around. On a catch the dog lifts upwards but does not turn around unless my throw is really atrociou.
>>Warned you it would be obedience heavy LOL>>
I love it! Perfect!
TracyHi!
yes, hello from Georgia, heading into FL tomorrow!>>What do you give your dogs for their small meals during the competitive day?
I give them a small meal of their regular food (although the Papillon had part of a grilled cheese sandwich at the flyball tournament for lunch on Sunday LOL!!) and it seems to help them mentally 🙂
PS – Facebook ate my profile, so I had to start over 🙁 Please come friend me 🙂
TracyHi!
The layering went REALLY well! And I think she liked it!
Was the stop at :25 because the bar was down? Try to give her a better setup, that was a little close to the jump get a good takeoff while you started running.
:She had trouble getting the right turn and not the tunnel – at :47, I think she was on autopilot after a few layering reps, so you can balance sooner.
Also, to handle the turn – give the verbal basically when you gave it at :46 but also add in more handling to help: turn your shoulders sooner but also support the line – she might need a brake arm, because when you turned your shoulders too much she didn’t take the red jump, or threadled the 2 jumps on the last rep 🙂It sounds like she got it right at :52 but it might have been edited it out of the video by accident, or YouTube is being glitchy?
So I think that brake arm might make it easiest for her to get the jump AND turn – forward, no brake arm, tunnel verbals means go go go and the slight turn plus brake arm can be useful for the discimrination turn in front of the tunnel. Let me know if that makes sense!
Nice work here!PS – my Facebook account got eaten by Facebook, so if you see a new friend request, it really is me 🙂
TracyHi! Great list here!
he is definitely a foodie, so we can incorporate that for sure! Question about the interacting with people: do you have a cue on it, such as ‘say hi!’ so he knows when to go visit them?
And have you ever tried attaching the food stuffed toy to the flirt pole? We can get creative 🙂
Onwards to the foundation games! We will have fun incorporating them!
TracyHi!
>>The random times I offer him to go say hi he’s wiggly, happy but then quickly loses interest in the person and wants to chase a bug, watch ducks or something more entertaining.>>
So at best, the visiting of people is of relatively low value in the hierarchy at the moment.
>>He likes other dogs but can be a bit much for them these days now that he’s big and a teenager. He’s used to very rough and rowdy play with our Swissy and that tends to not be great in the settings we end up in. He also had a weird period of dog reactivity about 2 weeks ago while we were at dog camp so we’re working back up to where he was before that (prior to that he hadn’t really shown anything like that) and we’re aiming more for dogs are interesting but not a threat and don’t anticipate that I’ll be asking you to interact with them.>>>
I think at some point when he is adult, that he will probably end up with a group of buddies, such as dogs that he sees as training partners, teammates, etc. And that way he might eventually have a big romp with his buddies as an available reinforcement. At this point, especially as a teenager, I like that you are more focused on “dogs are interesting but not too interesting” 🙂
>>1. I’m a behavior nerd,
Yay! I love this!
>>2. He really likes clarity.
Yay to this too! And more importantly, you recognize the importance of clarity. That is so critical!
>> He doesn’t get fussy or not participate in training but did used to show some confusion when the reinforcer I was delivering or how I was delivering it weren’t what he expected. So, I’ve just added more over time to be super clear. He’s big into concepts so I try to use that to our advantage wherever I can.>>
OMG I feel like we are on similar paths – my young dogs are VERY big into concepts too. And I have also added more markers – as needed, because I don’t want to drive myself nuts wit markers on top of the 35 verbal directionals for agility 🙂 but I like how we are all listening to feedback from the dogs and working more towards clarity.
He already has a ton of really good markers here! And you are consistent and reliable about matching the marker to the presentation (as opposed to saying one thing and delivering something different, so saying “get it” or “yes” for all the things LOL!) as you know, the consistency is the hardest part of us humans!
And it took me a moment to realize that heads & tails were links and that is so funny! Perfect!
Since these are well underway and your are not in the introductory stage, a couple of ideas for you:
He is watching your hands a bit and also watching contextual cues. That makes perfect sense and many of our markers are contextual anyway. You are really good about the marker with the hands in ‘neutral’ position then presenting the cookie for most of them so for those markers (some of the markers rely on the hand in a position like over his head, or the hand cue for tails), you can take one more heartbeat before you present to see if he will look to the right place and not just at your hands.
For example, the heads cue is perfect for this- say heads, wait 2 heartbeats, then toss the treat. You will know if he is truly reading it if he lifts his head to catch it before your hand moves. Plus, it is cute when they do this (cute is important :)) I also build in slight delays for get it and for yes (when the dog is relatively far away, because hand movement tells him which hand).>>. Tails – turn to take reinforcer behind you (our least used one so I added a hand cue here)
Least used a the moment, but fabulous to have in your repertoire because it is GREAT for training in the ring at trials! For example, UKI allows us to bring toys in the ring for ALL runs, not just training runs. I always leave the toy with the leash, behind the dog – sometimes I give the ‘tails’ cue to get it, which makes for a great start line reinforcement – sometimes I release forward to run.
>>8. Follow cookie in hand – no verbal really just based on context and how I hold my hand – using pieces of kibble here as like a treat magnet>>
As we add more movement into the training (your movement :)) you might end up putting a word on when you want his eyes on the treat magnet versus when your cookie hand will be moving but you don’t want him following it.
I liked the combos you did here! He did really well, it seemed that he had no questions. So you can take it up a notch – play with discrimination combos, rather than complementing combos. For example, get it tossed treat with the dish out there too – the get it treat is tossed in the same relative direction as the dish versus sometimes the dish cue, so he discriminates which one is available (I would start with an empty dish out there first to make it a little easier, and you can toss the treat into the dish when he is heading to it). Or you are next to the dish, alternate the yes where he moves to you and the dish where he leaves you for it. Let me know if that makes sense, or if I need to re-write it after morning coffee 🙂
And depending on how he feels about toy play, incorporating toys really helps clarify food procedures too! And makes for some fun games back and forth between food and toys.
>> want to try to increase the value of the udder tugger since it’s such a nice multipurpose toy and easier to carry than his favorite, favorite hollee roller on braided fleece.
We can insert the udder tug into the procedures in coming weeks! I just did that with a tennis ball… by baby dog is also training in flyball and did not have any value for the tennis ball (oops, my fault!) so I built value very quickly by inserting it into existing procedures. Now the tennis ball is quite valuable!
>>P.S. He is a long-time and fierce thrasher, since he was a tiny puppy (like literally since he was less than 8 weeks old). I try to reinforce weight shift back and steady pull but the act of thrashing is quite enjoyable for him (less so for my shoulders and neck).
Yes, I feel this pain too – my 2 year old dog comes from a long line of thrashers , like we are deep sea fishing and pulling in a marlin or something. Lordy!!!! So I also inserted non-trash intro procedures – I will get video of that too (plus I use a lot of bungee toys for the residual thrash moments to protect my shoulders :))
And, because I like my fingers to not get bitten up, I also worked my ‘bite’ cue to have no flesh involvement (especially because bite is right up close to my hands!) That is all going on the list of things to do add to the coming games 🙂Great job here! Let the know what you think!
TracyHi there!
Yes, Cowboy is going to think this first set of cookie games is the EASIEST thing on the planet haha! That is fine, we don’t need every single thing to be challenging for the dogs LOL! He was great here, of course 🙂These all went well – Cookies where he is following the hand almost sounded like you were singing to him LOL! Love it!
the main point of feedback is to be hyper vigilant about your hand movement, being as stationary as possible (for now) until after you have said the cue. That will really empower the cue rather than keep him watching your hands for info.
When you did the get it procedure, you were moving your hand after the “yes” and before/during the get it, so try to keep your cookie toss hand completely still after after get it. If you toss after ‘yes’, then ‘yes’ becomes the marker and he will stop what he is going to get the treat on a ‘yes’ moment (ask me how I know this LOL! Oops!)Same with the Snack – move your hands after the word- you had the hand then the word here. It is SO HARD, I know 🙂 It gets easier as we add more things to it 🙂
Cookies and hand moving to follow work well together with the movement, so I think you can keep going with that. The start of the Catch was best about word-then-move-your-hand at the beginning! yay! There was a clearer separation of the word and motion. It got a little more simultaneous towards the end, but the beginning was definitely more of the word-then-cookie-presentation.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
This is a great list!!!The food list is impressive, I am filling out an application to be your dog haha! Yummy yummy!!!! And all of it is relatively high value.
The toy stuff is interesting!
Have you every tried attaching a frisbee to a tug toy? I do this for my 3 year old – I will get a picture. It has almost the same value as the frizz, but it is attached to a long toy so she can’t break herself chasing it too much.
>>super value in training, very low value in a trial environment outside the ring. High value though in the ring when I run FEO. Have not figured this out yet.
That is really interesting! And a good view f how the environment changes things. When you are FEO, are you able to move the toy more? Maybe there is more room so he is more comfy playing?
>> Also need to work on improving the out
We have some of that started this week! You’ll see it in the toy procedures and comob procedures – I know that technically the out is a cue, not a procedure, but toy play procedures are MUCH easier if we have a good out.
>>4 – bath mat – it’s his go relax and observe spot when waiting to run and then turns into a tug toy when I release him to get up -one of the things he will consistently tug with outside the ring>>
That is awesome! Reinforcement is in the eye of the reinforcee… and I like how the bath mat is both a relax spot and a toy LOL! Brilliant!
For the activities… I see a trend: Chase! That is good to know and we can play around with incorporating it.
>> been playing this a lot lately in training after a mistake I am also working on loosing my use of NRM’s. Cody hates making mistakes and I think the NRM’s have become a trigger to oh crap I screwed up and I’m out of here>>
Yes, I like that you are getting rid of NRMs. There is a lot of controversy about those – in general, I think the dogs perceive them as punishment markers (negative punishment, as in we are stopping and you are getting nothing LOL!). and so I can see why he doesn’t like them!
Nice start here with the lists! Onwards to the first set of games 🙂
TracyHi!
“Regardless of environment” is amazing!!! Environment is so powerful and having the hierarchy be stable is amazing!!
Safe drive to Jax! See you soon!
TracyHello and welcome! All 3 of your Eskies sound so fun!!!!
It sounds like we can totally help shift the value to driving ahead of you and also get Laci really confident. We can jump right in with the Hierarchies: they are all foodies, which is great! Also, check out the activity hierarchy. And one more question: do they like remote feeders like a Manners Minder or Pet Tutor? Lots of fun stuff ahead!
TracyGood morning!
It makes total sense! He is a wee puppy, still. My guess is that we don’t have a full picture of WM yet either, still a teenager. And due to the pandemic, you probably don’t have a full picture of Phyzz in new places. Hot Sauce is 3 and there was a shift in her hierarchy last weekend. So, it is ever-shifting and we just keep track of it 🙂
I do love that you’ve established a Chill The F Out routine and in doing so, raised the are ofow value reinforcement. Pairing, for the win! Brilliant!!! When do you leave for Florida?
TracyGood morning and great question!
I think we need to condition the silence (and facial expression that goes with it – set of mouth, where you are looking, etc). So for example: start the lure with permission to follow (shhhhhhh) then when he starts following it, you go to your silence then after a short silence – “get it!” or something that says now is the time for the cookie. So the shhhhh is more of a cue and not a mark for reinforcement, if that makes sense? Easy enough to fade and replace with the cue for the behavior when you want it.
Then, the silence gets built in as a keep going, all good, because it predicts reinforcement. But then there would need to be something else that breaks it off so he also doesn’t get silence when he is not correct or you don’t want him to keep going.Let me know if that makes sense or if I need more coffee lol!
Tracy
Good morning!
Great lists here – you’ve clearly been making positive reinforcement a focal point in life and training, as well as the underlying emotional state of the dogs. Perfect!!! It look all works together, as you know.A baby BC that likes food…. fabulous!!! We will protect that like gold 🙂 I suggest we insert food into the procedures sometimes just to maintain that – the didn’t-quite-swallow thing is normal with young BCs so I play a little game with treats and a toy: swallow the treat, get the toy (I make sure I see them swallow it 😄) Do it with the smaller treats in a setting where you aren’t training anything else, it is just a goofy living room game for now.
Toy play sounds good, and expectations in different settings getting adjusted also sound good (he is still a puppy so it is important we don’t pressure him). Some of these procedures can also be used for acclimation games in new environments.
And I agree that there are some activities we use for training and some we don’t want to use. Years back, I think it was Jean Donaldson from the SFSPCA who used leg-humping as a reward activity LOL! No thanks. Ha! But some games can be used if needed – if he loves loves loves playing with other dogs or greeting people, keep it in your back pocket in case we ever need it (Also teaches the dogs when to ignore other dogs, a lovely by-product!)The camel training sounds so fun! If you plan on filming any if his work, please feel free to open up a thread for him. Let’s gift him a free working spot 🙂 I’d love to see more, what a great opportunity!!!
Have fun!
TracyGood morning! This is a really good list.
The food and toys will be easy enough to incorporate, but I think we can also incorporate his love of people and dogs! And that reinforcement procedure (the when/where/how of greeting and playing) can also help him ignore the people and dogs, like the judge in the ring! We’ll get the food and toys established this week then work on inserting the people and dogs. Does he play with your other dogs?
Tracy
