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Hi!
Looking at both of these videos together, I think the frisbee on the ground as a reward target was working when she could see it through the poles – but when you straightened the 2 poles, she didn’t have the idea that she should do the poles then get the frisbee. A couple of ideas for you to help her out:At the beginning of the first video, the poles were at a nice open angle. For a session or two, go back to that or a slightly hard angle but not straight yet. And instead of the frisbee on the ground, you can use an empty food bowl or a plastic lid as a focal point (nothing on it, just there for her to see). And when she goes through the poles, toss the frisbee or a big treat towards the bowl or lid. In a perfect world, the reward would land on it but as long as you get the reward near it, she will get the idea 🙂
And with the poles angled open and the reward target out there – work all the angles with you sending and with you moving, so she gets much more sure that it is through the poles then the reward. So if the poles were angles at 2 & 8 o’clock on the first part of the first video, and she is fine with that with you moving and throwing the reward after she gets it – then angle them just a little bit so they at 1 and 7 on the clock, and repeat that process of sending her through (and you moving) and you throw the reward after she goes through.
It is fine if she looks back at you a little bit for now after she gets through the poles – she is fast and we don’t want to throw before she chooses to go through the poles. The visual of the target will help keep her head straight, and the repeated placement of the thrown rewards will help too.
And then after a couple of sessions where she chooses to go through with the poles at 1&7 and you throw the reward towards the target after she chooses… then try the straight poles again – but as with the other angles, the reward is not already on the ground. It is in your hand and you throw it after she chooses to go through (but an empty bowl or lid can be out there as a focal point to throw towards).
You will see a lightbulb go on for her when you go back to the straight poles: she will be saying “aha! It is through the poles then the reward will be thrown out there somewhere” 🙂
>>Adding the 2nd set worked pretty well, but she started to stop before going through the 2nd set. Was my husband right that I should have let him call her or mark? I was saying excellent/good job to mark, then yesterday went back to clicker.>>
Where was the reward when you were working with the 2nd set? If you were marking and she was turning back, it might be that what you were holding was a little late in the throw or whatever your husband was placing was lower value (or both :)) So with the 2 sets, we want the same idea that she chooses to go through the first 2 poles and then you throw the reward out to an empty reward target. (or he can throw it, as long as it is high value). The timing of the throw is when her right shoulder is at pole 2, for now. Let me know, or post video if you have it 🙂
Nice work! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Nice work here, he was doing a lovely job with the cone wraps AND finding the jump! So… onwards to the next step which is to NOT have the toy out ahead, but in your hand instead. The jump becomes the target and then it is up to you to throw before he looks back 🙂 To do this, you can also progressively add more distance between the jump and the cone to build up the go into longer and longer distances (bearing in mind that the goal is to throw while he is looking straight before he takes off, and not when he looks back after landing).
If that is easy for him, add 2 more variables (when there is more distance between the cone and the jump):
– send to the cone from super far away (you can be close to the jump) – that way he will exit the cone wrap and you will be past the jump, challenging him to find it with you waaaay ahead. Many young dogs find this difficult and go into ‘chase’ mode, missing the jump. It that happens, slow down your motion so he can ‘see’ the jump more– do the opposite as well: start right next to the cone, close enough to touch it, and wait there til he is done wrapping it… then drive forward so he learns to drive ahead of you to get the jump (also with the toy in your hand, not out ahead).
These are more complex, so you might need the other dog to be safely out of the way so there are no collisions 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
She is doing well here! Yes, the connection is still super important but you are getting it more into your comfort zone and muscle memory, so she is doing better too! And also, like you mentioned: she is figuring out where to go so you don’t have to be as perfect.
There was only one connection ‘break’ (:14) where she had a question, and also she was a really good girl about not jumping up! That was a combination of clear reinforcement, clear connection, and she is beginning to understand the game 🙂Also yes – you are going to need your running leg now for Fast Forward Ruby. She is quick when she is figuring something out, but as soon as she knows it… zoom zoom super fast! And I think she is really getting the idea of it here 🙂
On your tunnel turn verbals – she is better turning to her right on the tunnel exit here. It might be that she is better at turning to her right, or there is no wing straight ahead, or both. On the left turn tunnel exits, if you were late (like at :26 or 1:23), she was wide. When you told her before she went into the tunnel, she had really nice left turn like at :56 – so keep telling her before she goes into the tunnel.
The rest of it looked great – she is getting really good at finding her line on those little racetracks after the left & right turn tunnel exits! Strong connection from you, plus she is looking for the wings, so she was fast AND did not jump up at all.
Great job!!! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Thanks for posting these! I think this was mainly her learning how to work through distractions (and not a handling error) – whenever she had to go towards the fence to get into the tunnel, you can see her lifting her head to look into the distance. When she turned away from the fence, she got the tunnel perfectly. So, when you see that happening, you can break things down into little tricks in front of the distraction, or wing wraps, and even letting her go explore for a minute so she could check it out 🙂 It is a good thing to work through an will be useful as she gets into busier situations.
TracyHi! He is definitely getting the idea!
He wants to move into position AND look at you, and he is quick enough to do both LOL! We want him to be looking at the ‘work’ and then after he arrives, he can look at you. It will look more like what he was doing one the reps at :39, :50 and 1:34. The way to get him to look at you less while moving into position is to take yourself out of the reinforcement picture as much as possible:
using the MM out ahead and releasing him to get the reward from it totally helps!
and, throwing the reinforcement in towards the target (not handing it to him) will help too. I use my catch cue for this: it means the reward is being tossed back to (ideally) between the front feet and he is allowed to move to get it (for when my toss is NOT good LOL!). That will help keep him looking at his work for where the cookie will land, and not at you as you step in to deliver the reward.And with those reinforcement strategies in mind – the next session should have you located anywhere *except* next to the end of the board. That can be moving past the boar, hanging back, moving away laterally, etc. Your feet can be anywhere except next to the target 🙂 That way, you can develop the independent behavior and make sure he is not relying on your feet as part of the cue to stop there.
>>. I didn’t make him do a down, but can still do that if it will help. Are we getting close to naming this thing yet?>>
Yes! We definitely can start naming it, after one more question: do you want the down as part of the behavior? If so, ask for it consistently so he understands, then you can name the behavior. If you don’t want the down and the stand is fine – then yes, name the behavior. I don’t think he needs the down, I think standing in position will be fine 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
He is just learning the differences between the Elevator and the Bang Game LOL! I suggest going old school and leaving the cookies in his face for now – so from the moment you line him up and he needs to wait for you to grab the board, do the countdown, etc: cookie eating like he is licking an ice cream cone LOL!!!! When he recognizes the game, you won’t have to have the cookies in his face as much, and you will see him focus forward and weight shift during the countdown.But overall – he was great! He was trying to anticipate getting into target position because of all the bang game value, but as soon as he realizes there is more anticipation in this game, it will be easier for you 🙂 He didn’t seem concerned about the movement or drop at all. Super!!!! You can add a tiny bit more tip!
And bring your target to classes so that if you have the opportunity to do the bang or elevator game on a new teeter, you can squeeze in a couple of reps.
BWahahahahah about the 3rd hand haha!
>>For a fluffball he’s kinda heavy on a board.>>
For real! I think it has something to do with the density packed in closer to the edge. I am finding it easier to do this with Contraband who is probably 35 or 38 lbs than with Hot Sauce, who is the same size/weight as Kaladin (but sadly no fluff). I think the larger dogs have the weight distributed more evenly up the board and the smaller ones have it densely packed at the end. Little powerhouses!
Great job here!
TracyYay for a great session!! Boo for no video. I feel this: yesterday I did a great session of the final stages to build to a full teeter, including Elektra’s first ever full teeter. YAY!!! And when I went to turn off the camera… I never hit record. f*#$(%%ck! Oh well, I will try again today LOL!!!
I am glad Stark was fabulous on it! He is really progressing beautifully 🙂
T
Good morning!
Behold the magic of duct tape!
I also use random leftover masks as targets for Elektra. LOL!!! Mask + duct tape = target position. She is truly a pandemic puppy.He is doing well finding the position AND holding it while you move past! Good boy!
He likes to look at da momma while he is going into position. He will be more balanced riding it down if we can keep his heads straighter. He is quick – does it so fast that we can’t go faster than he does to try to get him to not look at you. He is totally fine to look for you after arriving in position, I just want to see if we can convince him to not look for you while moving into position. So, 2 ideas to keep him looking at his ‘job’ and less at you while moving into position:
As you move ahead of him, you can toss the reward back towards the target as he gets to position. I use my ‘catch’ cue, which means the cookie or toy is coming back towards him. Ideally, I magically get the reward to land on the target. But the catch cue means he can move when the throw is poopy. So the end result is he watches the target area more and me less 🙂
You can also have a reward target out ahead (bowl or toy on the ground or the MM if he is liking it again) – and sometimes release him to it.So the main reinforcement strategies will be throwing back or releasing ahead rather than trying to place the cookie on the target – and then it will be all about looking at the target and ahead, and not at your hands.
He seems SUPER confident here and was leaving you to start the game! Ha! So you can add a little more tip! I think you can also add the Elevator Game first steps, he will like that a lot based on his joyous attitude here!
Downhills – it took him a moment to realize that it was about the toys and to not look for cookies – but then he was much happier driving straight across! I agree – the last rep was great and I also like the 2nd to last rep (yes, he didn’t really stop on that one but he was not sure if he should stop – but you got a great reward in for driving all the way across the board.)
>>I think this is the setup I’m going to start with for Downhill all the way to the ground 🙂
Yes! I like it! He is very close to the ground here. I think the next step is to go to the lower PVC thingies on the teach it, so there is less of a visual as he is coming down the board. Go to the medium sized ones, then to the little ones. The visual of the PVC poles really helped Contraband get this game rolling and then it was easy to fade them.
Then onwards to more tip!Great job here!!! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
The uphill looked really good! He took a moment to get organized but then drove across the board beautifully! Was it just a one hit wonder session? I am really happy with how he drove up the board there.
Backing up – once he got started, he did a really good job! You can jump start the behavior in new places but having him in his 2o2o to start, then draw him forward (cookie lure :)) then let him offer leaning back. Then draw him all the way off, so he can back up. It is a good one to keep bringing to new places. My only suggestion is to be a couple of inches closer to the board, so when he backs up you can feed him closer to the edge of the board – that will produce a better weight shift. He was reaching forward a little here so changing your position a bit will fix that.
Downhills – so much good about the way you structured this session!!! Play – hop on and balance and eat the cookie. Down the board, food… then you got him the heck off the board (which is also pretty reinforcing and then the toy gets involved, which he enjoys, and that likely raises the value of the food and the drive across the board). So the behavior you got was pretty ideal, especially on that last rep: run fast down the board, head low and weight shift at the end (where he would be weight shifting in the target position). LOVELY! I think another session or two here like this, and then add some more tip! How is the end position going? He is very close to the downhills meeting the ground, so be sure to play with your bang game – the bang game and downhills are going to merge soon for him 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
He did a great job here, 100% finding the entry and making a nice bend down the line. The only miss was when he sent himself as you were changing positions, so you can use line up cookies to help prevent that.>Should I do another session making the entries harder with the same angle on the poles?>>
Yes – and also add your motion. Now that he recognizes the progression so well, you can mix in your motion right away. Rather than doing an entire session of sending, you can mix in sending and motion as you work all the angles. So one more session with these angles to be sure the harder entries and motion are all good (I am sure they will be) and then you can quickly progress to angling poles 3 and 4 (sends, motion, entries) then things will come together really quickly! You’ll find that the poles will tighten up pretty fast at this stage.
Great job!
TracyHi!
I agree, it is really fun watching them put it together!!! And yes, they do figure us out pretty quickly LOL! Half of the verbals I use are ones that developed by accident that the dogs figured out LOL!She is doing well here – before tightening the poles more, I think we should try to convince her to run to the poles more rather than trot in then pick up speed. She is probably still sorting out the weight shift to make the entry, so a couple more sessions at this angle or even a slightly easier angle (for the toy throw idea, see below) can help. As soon as she consistently runs to the entry, we can move to the next steps.
So, to get her to run to the entry, there are a few ways to do it and you can mix them all in during the training:
– you can take out your movement entirely, standing totally still, so she is not cuing off your motion (she runs when you start moving in the poles, for example). To take out your motion while also getting speed, the toy throws should happen at when her right shoulder is at pole 2, so basically she bends into the entry and then the toy is thrown – which means the 2nd base should be a ‘gimme’ that she can easily find while running to the toy (a gimme angle for her is probably 2&8 on that 2nd base).
You can verbally mark and be exciting… but don’t move or run – the propulsion to the poles should be separate from your motion.– you can also do a bit of the polar opposite: you are running at high speed, the whole time. I still suggest early toy throws (right shoulder at pole 2, as soon as she bends into the entry) but basically you cue the poles and take off and run. Wheeeee!
On both of those, work in the harder angles too – kind of as a back and forth between easy entry, hard entry, easy entry, hard entry – so the running to the easier entries gets mixed in too.
– the other thing to add in is the Find ‘Em game using wings that I posted yesterday – the wing wraps are stimulating and you can use those to elicit more driving to the weaves. Get her all excited, cue a wing wrap, and throw the reward early 🙂
>>The next session I switched back to the ball but really watched my verbals. She trotted out to the weaves but as soon as she got to them she drove through and kept her head looking forward down the line. I can try another session increasing around the arch with both the pet tutor vs the ball to see how that goes.>>
It is pretty normal that the PT elicits a bit of a slower drive to the poles at some point than a toy does (ball or lotus ball etc) – Because her head was straight with the ball and your verbals were stronger, I think sticking with the ball now will work. She is doing a great job of finding the behavior with the PT out there (rather than just running to the PT :)) and her head is straight, so you can keep the ball in play for now. If she starts to look back at you too much, we can switch back to the PT but I don’t think that will happen, I think she has the idea of ‘go straight’.
Nice work here!!! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
He did well here – I agree that it is a hard game and the dogs really have to think about it, which is why the speed is not necessarily the same as it would be going towards the MM. He hit the angles nicely and only had one judgey look at the MM haha 🙂 He stayed in really well too except when you were moving away a little and have a really excited marker verbal so he came out, perhaps expecting reinforcement. He was faster when you were moving more – so as you mentioned, using a toy reward will help that so he won’t be as thoughtful about having to move away from the MM. And it helps us fade the MM and layers in a bit of arousal because he also has to ignore the toy in your hand. And the toy will allow you to set up the next rep without him going back through the weaves 🙂 It is good to mix the throw reward in more and more at this point because then we will get the MM out entirely pretty soon too.This game only needs to be looked at a little bit here and there, so you move into the other games that involve tightening the poles 🙂
>>Hope it’s ok that I shared videos of Presto from class – probably should ask first>>
No problem!!! It is fun to see the compilation!!!
Great job here 🙂
TracyHi Leslie and Tofer!
Lisa is THE BEST! He did really well on the channels intro here – for a Border Collie, I believe the channels are terrific for getting the footwork. He is probably going to ‘swim’ – I posted some info about striding today. Bouncing is fine too, but based on his size, length and power, I think we will get swimming.
Plus the channels are great for teaching sooooo much independence! You can already see that in the 2 videos.
First video:
He had no trouble with this session – good boy, he was finding the entry and heading down the channel really well on your left side! On your right side, he just needed to be patient to let you set him up – so you can call him back and reward him as you line him up, so he doesn’t start without you. When you started him, he found those entries really well!On the 2nd video, with you moving, he did exactly what we want: hit the entry and run down the channels without paying the slightest attention to what you were doing LOL! Send, rear cross, run, it didn’t matter, he was weaving! Great job!
So now you can go onwards in the channel progression: adding harder angles of sending, countermotion, lateral motion, etc.
If he continues as well as he did here, you will be able to introduce him to the 12 pole channel really quickly and work the challenges on 12 poles.Great job!!!!
TracyExactly! She will let us know. If she chooses one that looks awkward, we can gently massage her choice towards the other haha! For example, Contraband for a moment chose the bounce, but he was very scrunched up. So I let him feel the swim on the channels, and that was soooo much more comfy. We will find out in the next week or so 🙂
T
