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Good morning!
This was a really interesting session! I agree, it is worth building the value on his GO skill. He is really good when he is on your left, and I like how you broke it down to help him then built it back to include the tunnel then faded your motion.
He really had a lot of trouble when he was on your right! Did I see it correctly that he ran around the jump a lot? So he has some ‘organization’ questions on the go when you are not there, and that is affecting his commitment. Interesting! So, for the right side, you can break it down even more and have the jump even lower, and closer to the tunnel exit – and support with some motion. You won’t need a lot of motion, maybe just walking, but you can then fade it out.For when he is on your right, continue having the placed reward. When he is on your left, you can progress to throwing the reward and not having it placed – supporting with walking up the line will help too when the reward is not out ahead.
Nice work! Onwards to Emmie’s video!
Tracy
Good morning! These sessions looked really good! Honoring that 2 failure rule really makes a difference, I believe: the dogs end up being more successful overall and they learn more quickly, without frustration. Yay!
To help solidify the verbals even more, you can separate the verbal from the motion: say it, then move, separated by a heartbeat or two. For example, when you were working the left on the 2 jumps at the beginning, say the verbal without moving, then give that little bit of motion that got the turn (rather than doing it simultaneously). That will allow him to hear the left verbal and predict the motion that follows it (dogs are brilliant predictors LOL!) so he will start to really solidify the verbal alone.
He did really well with the tunnel!!!! I think he is ready for even more independence now: you were about halfway up the tunnel as he exited on these, so the next session can include you starting closer to the wing, so you are maybe only a quarter of the way up the tunnel… then even closer to the wing so you are only at the entry of the tunnel when he exits it. That will add tons of independence on the jump line (you can use handling while you are way back there but the verbals will be doing most of the work). This will eventually build to where you will be able to have him working well away from you, such as when there is a dog walk in the middle of the course and he has to take the tunnel under it and do a sequence on the other side of it.Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
Lots of great work here!
>>Enzo has seen exercises somewhat like today’s. In particular, his “go on” is pretty good. I try to plant a toy at the end of most training courses to support the long exit lines. >>
I agree – the go lines here were really good, it is definitely a strength for him. Because he is so strong with it, your verbals were able to be late and he would still go. The go verbals were happening when he was already in the tunnel. Not a problem at all for the go skill, but it is rehearsal of late verbal and will likely delay the turn info on the tunnel exit, which is not as strong of a skill. So even with the easier go verbal, try to get it to him while he is still a solid 6 feet from the tunnel.
Getting the go on 2 jumps was really good too – definitely a strong skill.
>>Alas, when trialing, he has more than once dropped the last bar when I have tried to send him independently on an exit line. Therefore, I try very hard to handle the last obstacles and, often, an obstacle after the last one.>>
Totally agree!!! Everyone should run to the invisible final obstacle or to the fence – it is easy to get into the habit of decelerating as the dog approaches the last obstacle and so many bars come down because of that.
Doing the go line after the tunnel without a lot of handler support here is more to build up to doing it from the other side of the dog walk – picturing the dog taking a tunnel under the dog walk then executing a sequence after it, while you remain on the other side of the dog walk. Such a popular trend lately!
>>In today’s training session, he had no trouble with the big GO but he didn’t generalize Left and Right after the tunnel. That surprised me and we had to go to the exit of the tunnel to refresh it.
>> training. I see that it doesn’t tell the story very well. He had a lot of trouble with tunnel, jump, left/right. He is quite proficient at simple left versus right but, apparently, the chain was too much. I moved to the exit of the tunnel and did a lot of left/right to help him get it.>>
I think this is where the late verbal was causing the questions – at approx 1:10, the jump left cue was late so he had already switched into ‘look for the ball’ mode. He got better as you broke it down and also as the verbals got earlier.
You can also “squish” the setup so that the tunnel is short and the jumps are low and closer – that means he will have less motion and will already be in more collection, which might make it easier to get the left and right on the jump from the tunnel. Then when he is getting it, you can spread it back out. You can also add a little bit of physical cue to it when it is closer and easier to see – not full out handling, but a little foot step from behind to see if it helps support the line.
The left and right on one jump is hard but going well – the visual of the jump draws him left so the right is harder. The little bit of handling help was useful to him for sure! But latency was still high, meaning there was a significant delay between cue and response (he didn’t even start moving til the 2nd cue, he was deep in thought, steam exiting ears and all that :)) So you can help with a very precise order of cues: be totally stationary, say the cue once, then after you say the cue, move a little bit to help. The order of delivery is critical here to get low latency and independent verbals: if you give the verbal and move simultaneously, he won’t really get the verbal independently because he is watching motion. But if you say the verbal then move after a heartbeat, he will pick up that the verbal predicts the motion, then he will move faster and more confidently on the verbal alone without the motion.
The “No Peeking Game” might be the funniest game ever!!! I totally am going to try it with my dogs! And he was such a patient dog to stay there til you got back, then he nailed the sequence. Brilliant! Do more of it, it is great for placing the reinforcement without tipping off the dog where it is in advance. Love it!
>>I was using a ball on a rope. It worked well when I planted it but not so well when I tried to throw it. I would prefer to use a Chuck-it ball and thrower but he is not a reliable “let-er go” of a plain ball.>>
Yes, half the planning here is which toy to use LOL! Will he trade the plain ball for a treat? That is my loop for training these with the tennis ball: throw the ball, get the retrieve, cue the out, toss the cookie, grab the ball 🙂
<<We were having such fun that it probably went on longer than was wise. By the end, he was becoming much more reliable but we will need to do more training to cement the concept of multiple things strung together with verbals.>>
He didn’t seem physically or mentally worn out, so the session length was probably fine for him. I usually like the short sessions but sometimes a longer session works well to sort out how to get the skill where we need it to be when the dog has questions.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! I see what you mean by one side being easier than the other! The first section was perfect when he was on your right! The second section was much harder; I am not sure why – nothing in the handling was telling her to go to the tunnel, so either it is a difficult side for her or the wing was “hidden” in the shade and she didn’t really see it. You can try doing it with more sunlight and moving more directly towards it like you did at 1:05, and if that doesn’t work then yes, move the wing further from the tunnel. I thing it might be the wing being too shaded (poor maybe there was some other visual which made it harder for her to see the wing?) so you can move it away from any visual distractions and see if that helps.
Nice work here! Looking forward to seeing you tomorrow!
TracyHi! This looked really good too! On most of the reps, I could see her turn to look at the obstacle when she her the verbal cue before you let her go, and that is exactly what we want. Yay! She had one error, no big deal – motion and a bit of handling will help get it perfect. I see you have added the motion below, so I will go to that video now since it is the exactly right next step 🙂
Nice work!
TracyHi and welcome!!
This session went really well! A couple of ideas for you:
The Go lines looked good – you were ahead of her on the tunnel exit, so try them with your not ahead – place yourself closer to the entry so she can drive ahead on the Go exit (but keep throwing the reward nice and early like you did here).The left soft turn was pretty good on the first reps but it was REALLY good when you placed the toy to help her! And then it was also good on the other side. So one thing you can do is leave the placed toy there the whole time – and sometimes cue the soft turn, and sometimes cue the go go go (have a 2nd toy you can throw as a reward to reward her for the go). I think that will help solidify the go versus soft turn.
>> Should I try the Distance Skills Part 1 or wait until she has more clarity between the soft turns and “go”?
I think she is ready for the distance skills, she was differentiated the GO versus turn well enough here 🙂
Great job!
TracyYay! Congrats on Chief’s big win! That is awesome!!!!
For the turns – in general, we don’t want to ever slow Chief down 🙂 Let him run in extension as much as possible, so he can make slightly wider turns but they are faster because he never slows down.
River is a little different – we need some collection but also bearing in mind as an Aussie, her power is in her hind end and running speed on the flat. So we do need to ask for collections and get her head turned, but it is likely that the fastest, most competitive turns for her will be when you get a little collection to get her head turned and then let her set up the rest to power up the next line.
You can sort it out for sure by running a sequence a few different ways: full on extension versus asking for some collection versus really getting a TON of collection on turns. Then time then and compare 🙂 You might be surprised to see that the wider lines produce the faster turns in many cases.Tracy
Good morning! So fun to see MC got to play too!!!
>> I think I know the answer, but should I have different 90° turn cues for jumps vs. tunnels? I used Left and Right, but I suspect that might cause confusion when there is a discrimination?>>
There is a lot of discussion about this in the agility world, and also include running contact exits in it 🙂
I personally have the same 90 degree turns verbals (left and right) and also the same wrap exit verbals on jumps and tunnels because of how the cues are timed:
I say “tunnel” (or tunnel tunnel tunnel haha) to commit the dog to the line, then at the 6 foot distance or so, add the directional. If I want a jump, I use the directional – if there is a discrimination, it is always the jump unless the dog hears the tunnel cue: so in the face of the jump-tunnel discrims like in game 3, tunnel means tunnel and the directional means jump. The dog won’t hear a directional on a tunnel until after they are committed to the line to the tunnel.
No confusion from the dogs on this. Let me know if it makes sense, I have not had a lot of coffee yet today 🙂Both dogs did really well on the video!!! River looked great and got faster and faster – when she started barking, I knew you were in good shape haha! The left turn for her is the strongest, so lots of rewards for go go go and for the soft right are good to keep in the training rotation. It looks like the physical cue for the soft right was a little late, which could be why the turn was not as good (especially after all of the go reps). The soft left looked earlier and she also got the idea really quickly, producing some fabulous turns.
Chief did really well too! Bearing in mind that we don’t want very tight turns from him because we want him running in full on extension, your soft turns from him can be more casual (quieter cues) with slightly wider rewards lines – the goal is a NASCAR race line so he never has to slow down. And, for him, over-emphasize the go go go lines so he can drive out straight and almost too far LOL! With small dogs, I like to just get them going ridiculously fast and not worry about turns as much: that is the key to the small dogs wins that I have seen 🙂
Great job with both! I think they are ready for you to add in the distance games with jumps!
TracyGood morning!
Holy cow, his teeter looks AWESOME!!!!!!!!!! I am so excited that he is going to the end like that!!!!He did a great job on the tunnel games! He seems to naturally want to produce the softer turns, so on the first video he was looking for you a tiny tiny bit on the Go exits, especially when he was on your left. So keep throwing early and often on the go go go eps, to help him really look forward. He was getting better and better as you did it, and I think having a jump out ahead will also help because he will have a jump to target to. Getting it great without a jump is important for the bigger distances, so you can alternate playing with a jump out ahead for the go and with nothing out ahead.
The turns video looked great – I think the only suggestion is to reward a tiny bit more on a tighter turn, closer to a 90 degree turn. He was finding it pretty easy to turn when he was turning towards the side you were on, and a little bit tighter will make it perfect for trial situations. He wasn’t choosing the wide line, he was targeting the toy throw, so changing the placement to a tighter line will change his line too.
He did REALLY well on the soft turns turning away from you – that is really hard! Your toy placement really helped him out there, well done to you for getting the toy into position to help him produce the behavior. That is going to really help him pair the directional with where to look for the reward, which will solidify the directional.
The crosses looked great – easy as pie, because he has great commitment you had soooooo much time to make the cross. On the FCs, my only suggestion is to call him – it is hard for him to see you on those, so he didn’t know where to look on the exit right away. A name call or directional will help him find you immediately and drive the line.
I think he is ready for you to add the distance elements of the next game here! The tunnel independence is really looking confident so you can increase the challenge now 🙂
Great job!!!
TracyGood morning! Excellent session here! Back chaining it definitely helped him out (and your throws were almost all perfect too, he basically never had to look back!)
So using this go go go setup, you can start to throw a little later and also start to spread out the distance a bit. And definitely add in the turns too – get him to take the first jump out of the tunnel and then turn on it rather than take the 2nd one (alternating with the go go go line). That way he will get to practice really processing the cues as he is working at a distance. As you build it up to the bigger sequence, you can also add in more of your motion to support the go or the turns.Great job here!
TracyGood morning! I hope Breeze feels better ❤️
Promise was great here! Her line up looked good (hooray for her liking the collar grabs!) and she was great at reading the physical cues for the wing versus the tunnel. Yes, you saw it – when you stepped to the tunnel but said the wing wrap cue, she did take the tunnel. Eventually the verbals will be strong enough to override that foot step, but for now the foot does need to match the verbals.
I think one more session like this will be great, then add the wing wrap before it so she can add more speed – send her to the wing wrap so you aren’t really moving much yet, and if a session or two of that go well, you can add your motion too!
And I think the reset cookies are going to really help – she didn’t get mad at you after the one error and seemed very happy to come back and get a cookie. I have found these reset cookies to help keep the dogs calm and happy, and then they actually learn better because they are calm and happy 🙂 And also she learns that errors are still followed by reward opportunities, which is less frustrating that errors begin followed by no rewards.Great job here!!!
TracyThanks! It is on the list for sure, starting in a different context to get the skill then you can move it to the weaves 🙂
TracyHi! I am definitely behind with my emails, sorry!!! I think the Confident Canines class will be very useful, definitely more useful than the Reward class because it addresses the issues you describe pretty directly. Reward is a fun class but it doesn’t address any worries the way Confident Canines does 🙂
TracyHi, great questions! I consider the discriminations to be different than bypasses… with a bypass, the cud means take nothing til further notice. Discriminations are just all about telling the dog which obstacle to take. So, they are trained differently for sure… stay tuned, we get into bypass training next week 🙂
TracyGood morning! I am glad the weather was sorta ok for you – I really think I should put a bunch of cottages on my property so my MN folks can come spend some nice weather months in Virginia so we can keep training the dogs LOL!!! We can all work remotely now, right? Ha!
Nice sessions here with all 3 dogs! You did not go off the rails at all. And yes you can use the MM for go and a toy for left/right, but I was really happy with how they did here.
First up, Presto – he was terrific, just some little details to consider –
GO GO GO looks good! He was looking at you a little because it was just a wing so when you switch to a jump, he will keep looking straight but overall his go lines are strong!
The wing wrap went well too, my only suggestion is to turn off the GO verbal sooner, so when he exits the tunnel you can start the wrap verbal. You had a lot of GO happening which made the wrap verbal a little late. Playing with the timing, you might find that saying tunnel then GO GO GO before he enters then let him exit then use your wrap cue – it varies by dog, so feel free to experiment. That timing works well for 3 of my dogs but is pretty late for Hot Sauce, who gets her wrap cue when she is in the tunnel.
The right turns were good – we really don’t need them much tighter than that out of a tunnel because we want the speed (a tighter right would require more collection) and also a tighter turn would end up being more of a wrap on the tunnel exit.Nikko and Sole both wanted to look at you after the tunnel – partially because they naturally prefer to turn after a tunnel than to drive straight without a glance at you 🙂 and I think partially because it was just a little wing out there (a jump might be a bigger visual draw on the GO lines for them). So, for all members of Team Toller – move to a jump out there instead of a wing.
The right turns were a little harder for the girls – one thing to try is to change the energy of your verbal: the GO is loud and insistent. The Right is like that too, so you can try to change the right verbal to be softer and longer, so it stands out as being very different from Go. I personally am loud all the time, so I have gone to saying my left/right verbals as questions: Riiight? Left? That way I have to extend them and be a little softer.
But, as with Presto, don’t drive yourself tooooo crazy about it – those are good turns and when we add handling and obstacles, they will make more sense to the girls and then they will get even tighter.Also, don’t worry too much about your arm – yes, think of it more like bowling but as long as you are moving freely, the dogs will sort it out and then you won’t get stiff trying to get your arm to stay low. The higher arm didn’t seem to be a bother to them at all here 🙂 No shame at all!
I think the crew is ready for the next steps: a jump after the tunnel, then building up to the mini sequences. Yay! Have fun!!
Great job!
Tracy
