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Hi!
This is a harder game, both dogs got a good brain workout and did really well!
Kaladin had a little trouble here, I think the tunnel has come up in value (might have something to do with game 1) so he was trying to sort it all out. He was able to commit to the wing so I am glad you rewarded even if it was not the correct direction – for him, I would go directly to the jump on this game so you can use a generic “jump” cue and not have to worry about the specifics of the directionals (I think he has a generic jump cue, right?). The directionals will be easier when the value balances out more evenly and plus we would be adding more handling too.
One thing I noticed with the wing wrap was the he was a little sticky at first when you stepped back and he pulled off the wing – Min was the same way, she pulled off the wing a little and was a little sticky running into the pressure of the game and the PT. She figured it out really quickly though and ended up having strong commitment. With both dogs, then, be slower in your motion to give them processing time as you up the ante on the challenges. She did really well and also the PT was a great distraction for her 🙂
Having the DW there created another discrimination, which was fun to see! She was really relying on your feet, even one little step would get the obstacle your foot was pointing too regardless of verbal. And the little wing was much harder to see than the tunnel or DW – she got a little sticky processing it, but then nailed it at the end.
As with Kaladin, you can go to a jump with Min (I am 1000% sure she will see a jump tunnel discrim at US Open).
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! You have some busy times ahead – fun!
Both dogs did really well here!
With Kaladin – Great job, he was really flying! you can add in the wrap verbals on the wing, or go to a jump to keep using the go go go verbal as you add more and more distance there. He is definitely ready for more distance!Min was great too. The Nemo ball worked well for Min on the GO because she could track the throw. So, on the left and right delay the throw til she exits and can see it, which will make it a higher value reward.
Both dogs are ready for the jump to get added in and the distances to expand 🙂Tracy
Good morning! Super nice session here – you played with some subtleties of timing and he was great!
Overall, because he was so successful, you can spread things out by adding more distance between the tunnel and the jump, as well as stay closer to the wing wrap jump to get him to drive further away from you.
The GO and the soft turns looked strong. Great job remembering the verbals LOL! And you changed the timing really well to get the soft turn over the jump as well. Towards the end, you did a GO on the tunnel then a soft turn for the jump – I think that is a great combo because it tells him how to exit the tunnel then how to take the jump. On the earlier right turn on the jump, you only used right – and that makes it harder to clarify if it is the jump or tunnel you want the right turn on (it comes down to timing, so using the GO then the right means you don’t have to be as perfect in timing).
He is definitely ready for you to add the next jumps to this game to build to the big distance!
Great job 🙂
TracyGood morning!
>> That is the reason I never used left and right before lol!!! I didn’t trust myself.
When I added left and right, I did a lot of double checking during the walk through and during training to make sure I was saying the correct verbal LOL! And now it is much easier, I just make sure I practice it a lot 🙂
>>This little girl has such a temper lol!!! This was the first mistake! I left all the video in. She gets frustrated so easily and then goes super, super high! We took a breather from “agility specific training” for awhile just to work on her going so “Red” so fast!
I welcome any and all tips on this as I haven’t had a dog with her personality before! It’s definitely caused me to think A LOT and change my training! We are signed up for your reward class also! I can’t wait for that with her.>>>
She has a bit of a short fuse for frustration (pretty normal in puppies) so the best things to do are to split the behaviors into tiny tiny chunks so she can be very successful, and establish reinforcement procedures. The Reward class will help with that for sure! For now, if she has a little question or error, call her back and give her a reset cookie then make the behavior easier. The reset cookies really help with frustration by keeping the overall success rate high and also by giving her something clear and easy to do (come back to you for a treat) when she is a little frustrated.
Let me know wha you think!
TracyGood morning again 🙂 The crosses looked terrific!
The blinds were especially good – you added challenge about halfway through by getting a bit further ahead so you were past the tunnel exit before she even entered… and she still got it. Yay! That is hard because a lot of dogs run right past the tunnel entry when you are already past the exit. You can repeat the tunnel verbal to support it but she did really well with that challenge.
She also did a great job with the FCs! The only suggestions i have for the FCs are to start them sooner, while she is still 4 or 5 feet from the tunnel, and call her – she lost you a little bit on the first rep or two and had to hesitate to find you.
She does indeed seem to love the ball the most! And i find that they are easy to throw as well 🙂 For the FCs, try to throw more in the direction of the line you are on, to encourage her to keep turning. The throws for the blinds were great!
Nice work here! She is ready for the next set of games 🙂
TracyGood morning!
She did really well here – she was committing to the tunnel really nicely! The soft left/right turns are going well – it is hard to know if she was targeting the MM or responding solely on the verbal, but either way – she was highly accurate and that will produce more accuracy as the MM moves out of the picture. 2 things to add to this now:
– start her further from the tunnel, so you can mix in the directional sooner and reward her for committing (and not popping out of the tunnel)
– mix in balance reps of the Go Go Go with the ball as a reward, with the MM still out there 🙂 That will add challenge to processing the verbals and it is a good challenge to run past the MM when you cue the ball!Great job!
TracyHi there! Both dogs looked great on these too!
For Breeze: The Go looked really good, good job starting with the jump close and the placed reward, then getting it further away and throwing the rewards.
Great soft turns after all the GO cues! Even though he had just had a lot of reward for going straight, he nailed the turn there on the first rep. Yay! One thing – I think you said left and it was a right? (Or maybe I need more coffee 😂)He recognized that it was not a go so he turned, but you can plan the verbals in advance to get more consistent with them.
After the turns, he went back to the Go really nicely, especially on 2 jumps. NICE! You can keep building up now – more distance on the 2 jumps, and adding in the turns too.
Promise: I love her tug drive!!! So fun!
>> She’s not a huge fan of getting close to me to start an exercise. She loves to anticipate. We are working on this! I will take any suggestions
I like the line up through your feet, it is a fun trick and gets her into a nice position next to you – then you can throw back rewards for the stay by tossing a treat back to her when you step away.
Also, you can start without a stay – get her close to you by doing a trick, something like a high five or a chin rest. That trick will bring her close to you and as soon as she does it – boom! Into the sequence you go. That will make coming close to you into a high value thing, without the pressure of a stay or line up behavior. You can add that back in when she loves coming close to you : )
She did really well with the tunnel and wings. You were smart to bring the wing closer when she had a question, you read my mind there LOL!
>> She then became frustrated, I left that part in! >>
That was an interesting moment! Was that the first error? It wasn’t even really an error, just a question. It was a big frustration response, she was REALLY MAD hahaha If it was the first error, we can game plan to help her work through things when something doesn’t go her way – she can come back and do a trick for you, for example, for a treat. That can help relieve any frustration.
Wing – tunnel – jump looked great!!! She was SO FUNNY when she got the toy – her noises were so funny when she grabbed it
You can expand the distance here a bit so the jump is further away and also start to add in throws.And your throws looked good 🙂
Great job on these! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Keep me posted on what ends up working best for you in the walk throughs! I am always interested in hearing how different people approach the walk throughs.
>> Just to clarify, the speed part is just for at home, right? I know there’s always that one person running during a trial walk-through, but I always assumed that was technically illegal.>>
The speed part is definitely for home, but also for trials too as much as possible. It is hard to go start to finish at speed in the trial setting (I try not to run into people haha) but it is totally legal to do it! So try to do bits and pieces at speed, or as much as you can. I do as much as possible while also being polite to not run into anyone 🙂
On the Go Go Go video – I agree that she prefers to turn towards you on the tunnel exit, so you’ll want to play this game pretty regularly to really bump up the value – she was already turning to you in the tunnel, so this skill will just take more practice with lots and lots of reinforcement out ahead 🙂 She will get it! And we do want her to drive straight out even if she can’t see the next obstacle, just to really build her go go go confidence 🙂
And your throws were fine lol and timely too 🙂
When you added the wing as a target, she definitely had an easier time! So you can start with the wing somewhat close like it was here, then move it further and further away to help expand her go skills. That might be able to build value faster than doing it just on the flat.
>> “Round” is my other dog’s turn cue. Annie may have heard it before, but I doubt she knows what it means. I think she would probably turn out of the tunnel even if I didn’t say anything, so it’s hard to tell if she is actually getting it.”
I agree, she naturally wants to turn – that makes me think you will have an easy time attached the ‘round’ cue to it. She might not be understanding the cue yet, but she will soon! And then having that cue will help her differentiate when you want the soft turn, versus go versus a really tight turn like a wrap. She did well with both but seems stronger turning to her left – she might look a little lost because she is looking for an obstacle, so you can put a wing out there too 🙂
>> I noticed that in the Tunnel games video you used “Right” to get the dog to take a soft turn at the tunnel exit. Then in the Distance Skills video (around the 6:00 mark) you used “Right” to cue the dog to go straight out of the tunnel, take a jump, then do a soft turn to a 2nd jump.”
For my demo dogs, the timing of the verbal depends on which obstacle and which dog 🙂 For my black terrier mix, I need to say things about 3 hours early because she is VERY forward 🙂 So her right verbal to turn right on the tunnel exit is pretty early but that right for the jump is wicked early – she needs to be hearing it as she exits the tunnel to commit to the jump and turn right, otherwise she jumps in extension. She is a very forward girl 🙂 So the verbal changes slightly in timing, as best as I can (still a work in progress with the younger dogs!)
>>>Since Annie will be just learning her new “Round” turn-toward-me verbal, when she’s in the tunnel and I say “Round”, how will she know whether I want her to turn at the tunnel exit or turn after the jump?
If you want her to exit the tunnel with the round turn, she should hear it before she enters – ideally about 6 feet before entry. That timing means ‘take the tunnel and exit turned’. And if you want her to turn on the jump and not on the tunnel exit, you can be saying the round cue as she exits the tunnel and not before she enters it. “Round” in that case would mean ‘take the jump and turn’ but it depends on how forward she is – she might not need it quite that early, and you can just tell her to jump or not say anything til she is out of the tunnel and needs the turn cue.
>>Typically she will head-check out of a tunnel if I’m not right there, so I’m anticipating that the first jump will be the harder one for her.
You can work on getting more go go go to the jump before adding the turn – and for my dogs that are less likely to go to the jump, I do ask them to jump before I use the turn cue.
>>Btw, this same setup came up in our lesson today: tunnel, tire straight ahead, then soft turn. I had to use “go tire” to get the tire, but then Annie had words for me about the surprise turn. I’m not sure how to fit all the words in.>>
So she got mad about the tire turn? It is possible that the “go” in “go tire” cued her to jump long then you cued a turn. If you just said ‘tire’ then round she might find it clearer.
>> I would have bet a hundred bucks she would refuse the tunnel, but she did great!
She was a rockstar here!! Wow, no problem at all! Since it might be harder at a trial, you can try it with less motion and see if she can be successful with it – she was perfect here and that allowed you to nail the FCs and the BC!!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! She was so funny here with the ball. I hope she got her breakfast after all that LOL! She seemed to really engage with the ball when she saw your throw it (such as when you picked it up after it landed). When it was landing or already landed, she didn’t seem to think it was as much fun. So for the ball reward, let her see you throw it so it will really be a reward for her. I think that will only work for the left and right turns, though, so for the go go go you can have the PT out ahead – and it can be out ahead the whole time, so she has to ignore it to make the turns in response to the left/right verbals (yes, I know, Sheltie torture LOL!).
She is also ready for the next game 🙂 Great job here!Tracy
Good morning!
Great job here! I don’t see a Min video but I think that is still in progress.Kaladin’s does indeed love the tunnel and the Nemo ball LOL! He was a little tentative going to the tunnel on just the verbal (no motion, no arm) at the beginning, so you can hold him back a bit, start saying the tunnel cue a few times then let him go when he is ready to rip himself from your hands LOL!
You can use your go cue sooner – it is almost a reinforcement for him, her gets SUPER zippy when he hears it.
Looks like he was perfectly happy to drive out straight and fast (helloooooo, Nemo!). Yay!The first left was a surprise to him (“I thought we were doing GO, mom?” LOL!) but then he got better and better. I don’t think we need him any tighter than he was on the last couple of left and right reps – he was doing a “NASCAR” line which means turning correctly but just wide enough to maintain extension and high speed the whole time. Yay!
He had one question about going to the tunnel on the 3rd to last rep at 1:05 – it was a GREAT question from him. You were saying go go and your feet were facing straight and not to the tunnel… so he went straight on the line and did not take the tunnel, which would have required veering away from the Go line. GOOD BOY! I like the literal understanding of GO, as that will help you in more complex handling situations. So just be sure your feet are pointing to the tunnel if you are not going to move.
Great job! You can definitely add in the crosses and also move on to the next games.
Tracy
Good morning!
On the first reps at the club building, he had super strong commitment to the tunnel in isolation, as expected. My only suggestion is to always give an exit cue to help him not default to looking for you. The exit cue can be physical or verbal or both, to cue a line rather than him looking for you at the exit which is what was happening when you only said tunnel but didn’t really move. When you added exit cues, he was much better about looking towards a line and not at you. Yay!
Left and right are easy for him. He did REALLY well on the wraps, those are harder for all dogs! So I think the main thing to emphasize with him are the big go go go lines – those are hardest for him (he naturally wants to look for you on the softer left/right lines) and more reinforcement out ahead for the GO will help strengthen them more. (And adding the distance games that come next will help too).
In the outdoor session:
Working the angles with the weaves right there was a good session, he did well making the bend into the tunnel on the angle and didn’t seem to be looking for the weaves. You can challenge him to see if he can find the weaves from that angle – MUCH harder 🙂 but useful!
Here, too, you can give a directional exit so he doesn’t default into looking back at you when he exits.
When you started straight on, he had more trouble because weaves are very high value for him (as expected :)) He was not really waiting to process the cue on those first couple of reps where you said it and moved – he was just diving into the weaves. You can gently hold his collar and begin the cue while holding him – and watch his head. If he looks at the correct obstacle, let him go. If not, keep repeating it til he does look correctly. That will help jump start the thinking/processing the cue, while the gentle restraint also adds excitement to simulate how he might be feeling on course. And if he can’t process it and look at the correct obstacle? Move to an easier spot or add more distance.Working it from the frame was fun to see – your movement path was subtle but very helpful for him 🙂 When you were out of the picture, he had an error (2nd to last rep where you were further behind) so the first thing to do here is to be ahead like you were, but fade the handling help – then you can move yourself back out of the picture (you can replace the a-frame with a tunnel to get lots of speed without any bang on his body from reps).
You can definitely add the tunnel- jump discrimination game too, it is challenging but also the concept of “listen for the cue and don’t rely on the physical motion” will really help the challenges with the weaves! Many of our dogs don’t process verbals that well while there is a lot of motion, so these games should really help strengthen that skill.
>Luckily, we are almost always able to give a bit of a hint (verbal “out weave” versus “come tunnel” or physical: line of motion or acceleration/deceleration).>>
True!!!! Even at a distance, we can use motion. But a trend that I am seeing is that we humans need to run like mad the entire time and somehow magically yell turn cues or obstacle names – with a little physical help as possible, so we can run like mad to our next position. I ran this (as a student) as a recent seminar – Lordy it really shines a light on what we need to do and when and how the dogs process. It will also be highly individualized – I ran 2 dogs, both pretty speedy. The more experienced of the 2 is also a little more ‘forward’ (gets on a line, stays on a line) so it was harder to get turns while I kept running. My less experienced youngster allowed me to run hard and responded to the verbals as if I was handling with decel and stuff… whew! So it is because he is less experienced? Or because he is just better at processing while running? Or is it because he has more experience with the foundation games for these skills (the other dog had to sit out to get a patella repaired). Or all of the above? Hard to know, but it gives us insight into the individual needs.
Based on what I have seen, Enzo is somewhere between my 2 in how he processes – a good combo of forward and responsive, but needs more experience with processing turn info while you run hard, if that makes sense.
Great job on these! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! These went really well! Her tunnel commitment looks great, she was really driving to these (Maple will get faster and faster with these, so keep playing them with lots of rewards :))
One subtle thing: Winn wants to look for you on the tunnel exits – you can see it on the reps where she is coming towards the camera. Watching her face, you can see her head turned towards where you are (while she is still in the tunnel) even when you are yelling go go go. So, to help her drive straight and not look for you, a simple solution: throw sooner LOL! Throw the reward as soon as she gets into the tunnel, so it is landing out ahead while she is maybe halfway through it. She will learn that Go go go means look ahead because she will see the reward landing sooner – and then eventually you can throw it later.The left and right were easy for her, yay! And the Blind cross looked great. The front cross looked like it was hard to get out of the way on time LOL! So rather than do the FC on the same line as the BC, do it moving in the other direction, back towards the side you sent her from – that way you get a tight turn but you don’t get run over by a flying pointer LOL!!!
Great job here! You can do a couple of practices of the go go go then onwards to Game 2 🙂
Tracy
Thanks!!! I saw it come through on messenger, I will sort those maps today and post them. YAY WAGER!!! And I am sure Spot will nail it too, his generation has these skills built into their foundation. Do you have video of Wager nailing it? I would love to see!
TracyGood morning! Both dogs look great here! A couple of ideas for you:
With Breeze: he is driving to the tunnel brilliantly! He wants to look towards you on the exits – it is easier to see this when he is tunneling towards the camera in the 2nd video – so you can throw sooner and lower, so he learns to associate the go go go with just looking ahead because that is where the toy will be (or the jump in the next set of games :)) Throwing sooner will allow him to see the toy before he thinks about looking for you.
One thing with him (and baby Promise too) is that you can release with an obstacle name rather than just the release word – that clarifies exactly what to do. The release word is fine is the obstacle is really obvious (like between you and him, and you are moving) but when it is a little more independent you can just use the tunnel cue. Promise was having a little more trouble holding the stay, which is normal because she is young – so you can reward lots of stays and also do lots of sending without stays 🙂Yes, definitely add in more left and right, those exits are getting really common on course and you won’t want to have to stand still near a tunnel to handle it. But it is pretty easy – cue it nice and early, then toss the toy to the line you want. Do that for a couple of sessions and he will have it 🙂 Showing a bit of handling cue will help too. You can also place the reward out on the line in advance so he doesn’t have to wait for a throw. Promise can do this too!
When you added the crosses, the independence on the tunnel made them easy peasy for you! Nice!! The BCs were really great, that will give you a tremendous advantage on course, positionally. The FC was good too – you did it on the same line as the BC, but you can also send to the tunnel and do the FC heading back to the direction you sent from.
Promise did great too! She is definitely wanting to find the momma after the tunnels, so for her you will want to throw even sooner than you would for Breeze, and much lower (she is little and she didn’t know to look up 🙂 ) One that that can help is to have the toy already out there (if she likes a ‘dead’ toy) or you can use a Manners Minder if she likes those too! That will help the reward be out there super early and then you can make it later as she learns to look ahead. And the other thing you can do is work it on a shorter tunnel, which will make it easier too.
No need to add the left or right until she is looking ahead better- the left and right will be easy for her, so let’s get her driving straight out of the tunnels more first.
Keep working the angles, but with less movement from you for now – it is a lot of collection for her, so stand totally still til she is bending into the tunnel, then you can throw the toy. You were a little early and a little exciting, so she didn’t quite make the collection on that last rep. But she will figure it out, she seems really brilliant!Great job with both dogs!!! Let me know what you think 🙂
TracyHello, and welcome!!!
Your walk through question is a great one – I totally feel your pain! A couple of ideas for you:
Practicing the walk through procedures at home and classes will really help – the part where we try to match our walk through speed and timing to the actual dog’s speed in the run is the MOST important part, because it gets the rhythm of the dog and the needs of the dog into your bones. That makes those short trial walk throughs easier because you will have a natural sense of the dogs’ needs.
What works for you at a trial is going to be something you play around with, using the same consistent method a bunch of times then seeing how it works. Right now I am running 3 completely different dogs, so when they are all running on the same course (eek!) this is what I do:
I go into the walk through very well-prepared, meaning I really have a strong idea of what the lines are and what I am going to do
I set a timer for 90 seconds: and walk the “first” dog for 90 seconds. Then switch to the 2nd dog for the next 90 seconds. Then the 3rd dog for the 3rd 90 seconds. That puts me at about 4.5 minutes into the walk through (yes, the timer on my phone helps keep me on track LOL!). Then I can spend the next minute or two reviewing anything that felt uncomfortable – then at the end, I try to “run” all 3 dogs in a row, visualizing each dog to get their specifics plans into my bones 🙂
Having things broken down like that gives me a plan and also gives me time in the walk through to do all the things without feeling too rushed.
When I don’t walk the courses like that for multiple dogs, it is very easy to lose track of time or short-change the plan for one of them (usually my most experienced dog gets short-changed, which is NOT good but he requires a LOT of focus to run).Let me know what you think!
Tracy
