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Hi!
This is a really good game for him as he prepares to get back into training! He did have a little trouble leaving the goodies behind: he had loving looks back at the cookies and tried to bring the toy with him LOL! So funny!
And it sounds like he was aroused when he got your finger during tugging at around 1:00. All of that is indicative of just how hard this game is – but so important for the trial ring.
The leash tugging was helpful as this is something you can totally bring into the ring. And he seemed to really like it!
Seeing the weaves nearby reminds me that you can play this game near the weaves – not with having him weave yet, just approaching them then going back to rewards nearby – anything to pair the weaves with great stuff 🙂
When he is allowed off leash, we can add in taking the leash off, leaving the toy with leash, lead outs, etc – and eventually weaving with the toy behind him too! He did well here and I am excited to expand on it when he is allowed to have more freedom. For now, keep taking it to new places or in front of distractions at home. Great job!Tracy
Good morning!
This is looking good, bummer about the first part not getting recorded!!I like loop loop as a cue! And yes, you were stepping in – try to put a leash on the ground or something for you to walk along straight, so you can just do it all on little hand flicks and not change of line – moving straight becomes critical when we add in the send to the other side of the wing as well as the ‘don’t take anything’ moment. Make your hand flicks very small so you’ll see him start to turn himself away 🙂 And the smaller hand flicks should make it feel less awkward so you will be less likely to step towards the jump.
I think you can add the loop loop verbal now, and then when he seems to get it – you can go to the last part where you show him all 3 handling things: send, loop loop, and following your line (no wing).Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Life does get busy, I know that feeling!!!
Good work on these:
>>We tried the Sequences from Game Package 2, as I have been working on Yowza’s collection for turns – but I hope I am not teaching her to go slow – please guide me here – I do not want to teach her to slow down too much because I am teaching her to collect too much!>>
After watching them, 2 main things come to mind:
– she is a really nice turning dog and you have taught her a lot… that means you don’t need to control her turns or lines nearly as much. Let her rip more! Wheeee! Slightly wider is indeed faster, and I think you were trying to work the turns more than needed– you can clarify which turn cues means what – some of the cues were the same but you wanted very different turns, so she had a few questions about that LOL!
Here are specifics:
First baseline run: This is one where I thought you were working too hard on controlling each turn and line, and didn’t have enough woohooo giddy up run fast 🙂
1-2-3: you can lead out less and run more up that first line to let her really explode.
4-5-6 at :09 – it almost looked like you wanted her to go from 4 to 6 because you had a lot of decel and an early turn, so she really collected and had questions – so be sure to drive in more between 4 and 5 to give her a big send to 5. This turn can be relatively “wide” because it will be really fast that way.From 8-9 at :13 – too much collection cue here too -so she did just that: collected mightily, she was preparing for a wrap – then you opened up to 9 and she dropped the bar trying to adjust.
When you added the wrap at 11 at :28, still too much control – you were facing the jump still cuing collection as she took off so she landed, waiting for more info (and ticked the wing, from what it sounded like there) – you might not need a spin here, but a send-and-go will be more effective and faster while still getting a good turn.
Day 2 – 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 sooooo much better! Nice and fast! You were not as concerned about tightening those lines.
At :16 when she continued back to 5 – you had basically identical cues (physical and also said jump) – you started the turn cue when she landed from 4 so by the time she really saw it, too late. It was a little earlier and clearer when you went through there at :19 and you had a very different looking physical cue – but try a different verbal too (was that your wrap verbal?) The double handed collection cue with big decel might be too strong for that type of turn for her.
So that brings up a clarification question for here and also at :51: “jump” appears to be a forward cue (you were using it for the 4 and 5 jumps and it worked well, but when you said it at 8 it was intended to turn her more… then you switched to more of the chchch or check check check… but that is also a wrap verbal? I think the 8-9 jump is perfect for a soft turn verbal such as a ‘right’. If ‘jump’ is a forward cue, and checkcheckcheck is a wrap cue… then the turn at 8 is neither of these 🙂 It needs a different verbal and physical cue – so when she exits the tunnel, you can use a right verbal and just move away laterally.
The wrap on 11 at :28 looked the same as the cue on 8 (couldn’t hear verbal) until after she landed, so she had a little question there too. You can give the different cues for 8 and for 11 right after she exits the tunnel, which will help clarify what she should do on the jump after the tunnel.
You can use a bit more connection at 1:16 but that is a spot where we can see that “jump” is definitely a forward cue for her. Good to know!! And I liked the spin here on 11 at the end – she had a nice turn and really powered out, it was very different than the other cues so she had no questions. You can try a send-and-go there and we can compare.
>>I am thinking she maybe slowing down TOO much – what do you think?
I think she is super responsive to turn cues… so if you clarify which cue is needed in which scenario, then she will have a lot of speed and great turns too 🙂 For now, push her to go fast primarily because it is easier to get the turns than it is to get the dogs to go fast. And when we time the difference, going a bit wider on the bigger lines is proving to be faster for all the dogs 🙂 And she has rally good turn skills, so I don’t think you will have to worry about tight turns with her – it will be more about exactly what she needs, and when.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Lots of good stuff here!
>>I think that the name of the games here is that I need to work on some of my fundamentals again.>>
That is pretty normal – sometimes we find little holes in the foundation as the games expand. There is so much to train that the little holes are not a problem and easy to fill in.
Straight line:
One thing that will help (especially for the wraps to the right when you were doing the rear crosses) is to use a bigger lead out to set the line from 1 -2. So on all of these, you can lead out past jump 1 by a step or two then release. That will make all of the cues easier to show. You were starting with or behind her, which made it harder to show her the lines. And add in lots of stay rewards, so she lets you do the lead out 🙂The Go at the beginning is looking good! You can have your rewards ready and throw them as she is looking forward between 1 and 2 to help her not turn back to you.
On these and on the wraps to the left, I think she is going to graduate into the need for better footing, especially as you add jump height to it. This floor was really slippery so that changes what she is doing. The wraps to the left looked good, she is getting the idea for sure!
The wraps to the right involved rear cross handling, which is one of the harder cues for younger dogs. You can show her the rear cross with more pressure into the line by staying in motion towards the center of the bar on jump 2 then cutting in behind her, until she has turned the correct way. For example, at 1:24 your feet were facing the correct direction but you were n the left-wrap side of the bar – you needed one or two more steps across the line (moving towards the center of the bar then to the right wrap wing) for her to get it smoothly.
At 2:15 you did cut across and keep moving (yay!!! that was the correct line!!) but it was a little late, she was already committed to the left turn wrap. Ideally, that info (moving towards center of the bar) starts when she lands from 1.
You were getting better and better with showing her the line there! 2:36, 2:52 and 3:05 were all better, and you were also working to get the toy thrown sooner. You can even leave it out there on the landing spot to help give her a focal point.One other thought – you might find it easier to start from the tunnel so you can get ahead on all of these sooner.
2nd video, Backwards sends – this is going well! It appears that you do have a lot of value for the middle line up position – try to put it on stimulus control where she only does it on the verbal cue and does not get any reinforcement for offering it in any situations where you have not specifically cued it. It was smart to move the wings together – she did really well when you were closer to the wings!! And your mechanics were really good – you had a very clear send/step and connection, lovely! When you added moving away, that looked great! Her commitment was looking rally good. And doing 2 wings also looked good – you can walk forward out of them and rotate towards her, rather than turning with her to face the wing, to make the cues easier.
Countermotion – I agree that she doesn’t seem to understand the sit versus the down cue, so a few ideas to clarify it for her:
she did sit in front of you when you were not moving but then wanted to go into the down. If you click the sit and she moves into a down – feed her high so she comes up into the sit rather than rewarding here in the down. The saying “everything between the click and the reward gets reinforceed” holds true here – moving into the down gets reinforced if you reward her in the down position, so have the cookie ready and hold it up high for her to eat so she is less likely to offer the down.
Also, she seems to understand the sit hand cue and not the verbal, so we can isolate the verbal to make it more independent:without adding your motion yet, say the sit verbal without any movement, be completely still – then give the hand cue about a second after it. Then reward in the sit position. The verbal will get stronger because it predicts the hand cue, then we can fade the hand cue out.
When she is happier to sit rather than down, we can add back motion.
Backing up – I was glad the noise didn’t bother her! About the backing up: separately from the teeter, how does she do on the flat with backing up onto something like a dog bed or mat, or just backing up in general? She was happy to go forward up the teeter but didn’t understand that you wanted backing up. If her backing up on the flat is going well, you can change how you set things up on the teeter – remove any tip of the teeter, then start with her with all four feet on the board, near the very bottom. You can sit on the ground pretty close to the end of the board. Lure her front feet to come off, then let her offer stepping back with her front feet to get on the board and reward. When she can do that several times, you can scoot your position back – start her with all 4 feet on the board and lure 3 of her feet to come off… then reward for her stepping back onto the board. Eventually build up to luring all 4 feet off, then rewarding for stepping back on (this might take several sessions). But before you try it on the teeter, make sure she can do it on the ground to a dog bed of something easier.
Also, as you begin this, reward approximations (tiny bits) – even if she only puts one foot on it, or one back foot: reward! It is a start! At 3:06 and 4:37 she put one back foot on it – that is rewardable 🙂
Nice work here!
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>– even though he got rewarded for the openings, he still has a sense that something went wrong and I don’t think he is a fan of the start and stops in training (even with rewards)
So I understand what start and stop means, but how do I best avoid while still frequently reinforcing? Just terminate the session? Keep moving on in the sequence?>>
You can either keep going in the sequence, or you can run out of the moment and reward as if it is the end of the sequence. And also – don’t repeat as much – do it once, maybe twice, then move on, you can always revisit it later.
>>Or is this the correct answer ?
So…. keep going rather than stop. And if you want to reward – keep running and let him chase you, as if the course is finished.>>
Considering that he doesn’t like the start & stop or any drilling/repetitive handling stuff, you can keep running to reward as if you just nailed the whole course.
>>Circling back to the backside, should I run out of it with the toy to avoid tossing?
This is a skill specific training thing, to get the backside skill so that you can leave and not have to be there to help – so yes, you would want to throw the toy for him there for good placement of reinforcement – but then don’t do it again, continue on. Revisit that skill later.
About the RDW:
>>The only prop I’ve utilized is the mat, well and occasionally a standard for hard turns. I am intrigued by flyball jump, does that work as a stride regulator?>>
Did you ever have a reward placed out ahead, like a toy or MM? That can give him a focal point and faster reinforcement that is off your body.
>>He has also done best when I have reinforced everything even misses and really really lost my shit for for good hits. He’s not so big on the MM for RDW training. He just kind of trots for it, not as excited.>>
I think reinforcing everything can create problems later on, if you ever want to tell him he is wrong for misses – he won’t know how to be right. For the MM, you can pair it with something better: RDW hit to MM to favorite toy (I use MM to frisbee for Contraband, who doesn’t really love the MM by itself)
>>I am intrigued by flyball jump, does that work as a stride regulator?
The flyball jump sits about 10 feet off the bottom of the dog walk and it is a focal point and also useful for turns (because it gives her a focal point on those too) – it is part of a chain of behavior (mat to jump to reward) that really sets up the striding nicely.
>>This is where I get a little confused on my reinforcement strategies because in his DW training (and mostly in the weaves) I get super excited and throw the toy. Jackpot is we do that several times and he seems to love it (most of the time). When I did you weave class there were sometimes where he was a little mehh about it. Usually depends on the toy and how many reps we’ve done.>>
The common denominator I see if # of reps – I am a huge fan of doing very very limited reps to build drive and speed – and also, limited reps allow me to expand my reinforcement tools because the reinforcement becomes so exciting and precious. My dogs have toys and stuff in the house… but the meatballs and the frisbees and tennis balls and such are *only* for certain trainings, and that is VERY exciting – and they see it a grand total of one or two reps, then we are done. It turns the reinforcement into very precious stuff, so as they mature, I have more options and can go for longer with just about any reinforcement. I also play a lot of the transition to trials games where I have tricks and stuff that get the dogs higher in case they get a little low. The heat is pretty intense for all of us right now, so my barking tricks and super short sessions allow me to have an expanded reinforcement strategy. Let me know if that makes sense!
TracyGood morning!
Fingers crossed for a smoooooth Thor pickup!
first rep –
nice opening, good lines and nice connection!>> I am embarrassed to say he hasn’t seen this obstacle since last fall. I haven’t spent much time with it so overall and I was surprised at how well he did. I think he is hitting the yellow too high. I am thinking a strider and his mat when I go back and work with this. Your thoughts?
his a- frame didn’t look too bad, a little high maybe but not leapy! His second frame looked GREAT so yes, you can add his mat back but he probably doesn’t need a strider.
On the wrap at :11 (after the a-frame), you can leave sooner and get the blind in to put him on your right side for the tunnel. Keeping him on your left and getting the RC on the tunnel puts you behind to set the line to the DW, which is part of the reason he turned on the tunnel exit (the other part is that you would need to connect more to him to turn him back to the DW, as you mentioned). You had great connection at :25 and he nailed it! Nice ending line!
2nd run – the connection 1-2 didn’t look as strong on this rep as it was on rep 1,so he missed 2.
A-frame was REALLY good here!>> I could just kick myself for not connecting and showing the dog walk. I kept losing connection and the dread arm came up.>>
I think it was the rear cross on the tunnel entry before it that made it harder for you – getting him to your other side (dog on right for the tunnel entry) after the jump will make it much easier 🙂
You did have more connection on the tunnel exit at :50, but he was already committing to turn because of the RC when you sent him on in your left side. You got great connection and closer to the line to the DW a the end, so he picked it up nicely – getting him to your right side before the tunnel will make it even easier 🙂 Good job working the exit of the DW too, that lateral distance is difficult! The cone really helps.
2nd video – good job working this serp skill! I think at first he was reading pressure into the line as a backside cue, so keeping your feet straight really helped him – that is what you did at :45 and he nailed it. Your feet can remain straight on the line, and the upper body cue will get the turns – if you step in, he will ping away to the backside (which is how we would cue the backside if we wanted it :))
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Yuki did well here too, and I agree that more motion = more speed 🙂
I personally have no problem with the false turn choice -but both of the girls would need to see it sooner (as they are making a takeoff decision for the #8 jump). On her runs:
She had a question at the beginning – you were pointing forward at :07 which broke connection so she looked up at you. When she is behind you, she reads lines best when your arm is either behind you (pointing to her) or no further forward than parallel to you, so she can see your connection.
About the false turn: the ‘with me’ verbal and outside arm was late, happened after landing of 8 when ideally it would be shown when she was maybe halfway between the tunnel exit and the 8 jump, so she got really mad at you, lots of opinions LOL! It doesn’t mean the false turn was a bad choice, it just means it can be sooner.
When you did the spin at :20 for the wrap, it is similar timing to the false turn (no later than halfway between the tunnel exit and jump) – she was already jumping when you did it, so she was wide there.on the 2nd run, the send to the pinwheel was a more connected and you had better motion/earlier verbal, so she only had a small question (looked at you a little there). About the bar at :33 – it was a disconnection bar. Watch your upper body and head just as she is taking off: you were turning away, looking forward, with your arm forward and out ahead of you. When you turned and looked away, that caused her to question the line ever so slightly, so she dropped the bar.
Your timing of the spin at :39 was better and you had some decel too – and it was actually a little too tight, you had to push her back out. Based on how she reads things – I bet she only needs a decel (and maybe a small false turn arm) and to see you move away to 9, rather than a spin there? If it happens between the tunnel and the jump, it can work perfectly for her. The wrap cue at 11 was really nice, better timed so she was nice and tight! Yay!
And the go on at the end looked great.Nice job here too! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! The side-by-side stuff is really fun to play with!
I totally agree that more motion got more speed. On the first run, you were sending so she was decelerating, and when you ran, she ran. When you decelerated into the false turn, it was too much of a collection cue s she really slowed down. The false turn arm is fine as a handling choice, but you can accelerate into it and show it softly as she is making a takeoff decision. Running closer to the tunnel rather than using her send skills will help get more speed on smaller courses like this.
Compared to the second run, with so much more motion… motion is definitely helpful! Adding the spins as a turn cue is also good – try to start the rotation when she is making her takeoff decision, so it will be before the 8 jump and 11 jump. They both came as she was jumping here, so they were late and she went wide. You can see her exit the tunnel, take a stride and then you can send her into the spin so she sees it before takeoff.>>Keiko consistently went wide there, something she didn’t do on the first day.
I think you had more motion so she was faster, which changes the timing. She wasn’t moving as fast on the first day, so getting tight turns was easier.
I think the only other detail is on the 2nd run, after the spin – look back at her sooner to cue 9, you were looking ahead so she slowed down to wait for more info.
>>, I do think that the changes I made in my behavior and handling did have a positive impact on Keiko’s time and performance.
1000% agree! The main thing was starting with more motion – that got her off the line with speed, as compared to less motion/more sending of the original run, so she didn’t get up to speed til much later. Plus, the squirrel helps 🙂 But we can pay some games so she can run fast without the squirrel in your hand (the transition to trials game where you leave it behind you will help that!)
Nice work here! Onwards to Yuki!
Tracy
Not a silly question! That arrow is to show the turn to the outside (to the dog’s right) on the 5-6 line rather than wrapping to the inside of the course.
T
Hi!
>> I think I may have tried to squeeze in too much training too soon for Arty this evening. She had about 30 minutes in the AC between sessions and both sessions were about 8 minutes total but this one you’re about to see was much harder for us.
It is possible that she was mentally fatigued or hot, but I have some other ideas too!
>> We got stuck in the beginning with just the first jump and wrapping back around.
I think a couple of things might have been contributing: you might have been a bit too far from the jump, plus the high value reward in your hand and tunnel behind you definitely had her attention. Also, you can be more connected to her eyes on the one-step sends: your arm was coming up and you were looking forward, which rolled your shoulders away from the jump (particularly with the toy in your other hand and tunnel behind you) – try to look more her in the eyes to send and keep your arm lower. Turning away from the course is really hard, so exaggerate the cues. Look at the last one you did – nicely exaggerated, great connection at 2:26 and she nailed it.
>> She got stuck similarly last week in our in person class where I was queuing a rear cross with direction change back toward the takeoff side of the jumó and she just wanted to change direction on the flat. Maybe I need to work more on my jumó commitment and one step sends? Or am I just behaving differently as I try to get ready to run back toward that tunnel and not supporting enough.?>>
Do you have video from the class? I can probably give you a better answer if I can see it 🙂
The handling of the blinds is going well, especially with a big off course tunnel clearly in view – finding the right timing is not easy with young dogs but I think you were getting it here! The Blind at :37 was too early – you were almost done with it when she landed from the pinwheel jump, so she was correct to turn and not take the jump. When she lands form the pinwheel jump, that is where you should be cuing the next jump then starting the blind. You nailed it at 1:15: she landed, you cued the jump then did the blind. NICE!
>>Then you’ll also see her starting to cross behind me in an odd way that doesn’t happen often for us.>>
I think you are referring to when she went behind at 1:27 and 1:54 to take the backside when you were wanting the front side – is she a lefty? I remember we had figured out what her side preference was in the last class, but I can’t remember and will need to go back and look 🙂 It looks like she was working hard to be able to turn to her left 🙂 One of my dogs used to do that too (and yes, he is a really strong lefty LOL!) so really really exaggerate the right hand turns with massive conenction and arm back, and big step, to help support the harder turn for her. It gets easier with more experience (he doesn’t do it anymore :)) When you switched sides to send her to the left after that… no problem, that left turn was super nice!
She had one other moment of ending up behind you, but that was handling error: The BC at 2:15 was late by about a stride – she read your line of motion to the correct end of the tunnel but your connection was not clear so she ended up on the wrong side of you (if you watch your upper body after the BC, you pulled your arms forward to change hands with the toy, so from behind she could only see your back and not your connection – she was guessing on which side to be on). So after you finish the blind, reach your dog side arm (left arm) back to her nose and look her in the eye – that will clarify it and she will make the side change. Compare it to your upper body on the exit of the BC on the next rep, right at the end (2:35) – your right arm was back and you were looking her in the eyes, she had no questions 🙂 Perfect!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>> teeter training for down behavior, I did less shaping and more queuing of it. Is it obvious?>>
It wasn’t obvious, but I didn’t see a target and her down was a little delayed – I have found that using a target helps get the dogs understanding how to do it more independently and faster too 🙂On the video – the sequence work is going really well!! And opening it up for more running is great 🙂
Beginning section – the turn and go looked really good! She is nice and tight on the wrap. Be sure to keep moving – don’t decelerate to help support commitment to the middle jump, because that causes her to collect (you can see it on the 2nd rep) – stay connected like you did and run run run 🙂 You stayed in acceleration for the others and she looked great!
The blinds look really good!!! You can play with starting them even sooner – when you see her land from the jump after the tunnel, keep moving like you did, tell her to jump and then start the blind – the motion supports commitment so she should still commit and that way you’ll get the blind finished even earlier.
At :45, she took a backside on the first jump when you wanted the wrap – be sure to reward that 🙂 It is a common error when we humans stand on the dog’s line and move in on the send a little. The pressure reads a a backside cue, which is what happens here, so it is a rewardable behavior. Lining her up on more of a slice and moving your position to more of the outer wing will help (which is what you did at :19).
The motion override game is really hard and she definitely was looking at you like you were nuts LOL!!
Try not to change your motion at all – no decel, no stopping – so that means be moving very slowly, the whole time 🙂 And the other thing you can add to help her think we humans are less nuts is to reward on the very first motion of sitting (throw the reward back) – she was starting to sit when you were moving and that is a rewardable approximation. Even though it is not the full behavior, rewarding that little bit will get her feeling comfortable with the game, so then you can add more and more speed to it.Nice work here! Onwards to the next video 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
I think for the most part, you covered all of the exercises here 🙂 There is room for improvisation, because it is more about concepts than specific sequences.
The FCs on one wing at beginning looked really strong – good timing and connection and she was tight in her turns!
The second part was all about the spins to the other side of the tunnel: you can start your rotation sooner – it is a FC before she gets to the wing so the blind is done before she exits the wing. Your best one there was at :37, that had the blind done nice and early so she had clear connection and a smooth line back to the tunnel. Yay!
On the circle wraps, a couple of ideas for you:
– you can use a lot less upper body, and I think that will help smooth things out! You can cue her to go to the wing with your dog-side hand – but then as soon as she passes you, you can just move forward to your next spot. No need to continue to support her line with your arm or by turning your shoulders: once she is past you, you can move forward and change your connection for whatever exit you want. The foundation training to finish the wrap will take over, so you won’t need to help with your upper body (your arms can stay low and tight, and that will make the quick connections feel much easier. I thought she was really 100% about finishing her commitment to the wing when you cued it, even as you moved forward! Good girlie! If she ends up questioning commitment as you move forward, we can look at the timing (be sure she is past you) and also change the placement of reinforcement to reward her behind you (tossing it back to the wing as you move forward).
Turning your upper body to the wing can also cause questions when we have the full jump there, because that upper body turn also cues the slicing rear cross on the backside – upper body facing forward if what cues the circle wrap over the bar.
– you can show her more of the wing, try not to get on her line or block her view of the wing. There were a couple of times she had to go around you.
– reward more! She checked out after the 2:00 mark because you stopped rewarding (or delayed the reward for long enough that it was not in the editing), so the rate of reinforcement really dropped (plus she had already done a bunch of reps in the heat). It looked like she did a good job at 1:32, 1:45, 2:00 but there was no toy reward following her effort. I think you were thinking about what you wanted to do, but make the engagement and reinforcement the top priority and then she will stick with you.
Note how when you went to 3 wings, you started reinforcing again, the rate of reinforcement came back up, and she was a happy camper even though she was hot. So be sure to reward, reward, reward 🙂
Nice work here!! Let me know if the idea about the upper body makes sense.
Tracy
Hi! Compressed will make it harder for timing because everything will happen so fast 🙂
I’m glad he is feeling better!!
