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Hi! He is doing well trying to add in the additional layer of behavior here! The 2o2o position is pretty strong so now it is a matter of “keep scratching”.
2 ideas for you:
You can work the scratch behavior separately to build up to multi-scratches 🙂 Away from the target board, hang out and let him offer… and let him get annoying when you don’t reward one scratch so he offers more scratching. Ping pong the rewards – sometimes 2 scratches, some times 5, sometimes 3, and so on. That can help build to non-stop scratching.On the scratch board and also on the target board, I think we need to teach him to do the behavior even when the cookies are moving. When you moved the cookie hand, he would stop and watch the cookies 🙂 We want him to keep doing the behavior even as the cookie hand is moving – and I think the cookie hand movement was why he was stopping.
So, you can try some ‘rule outs’! That is when we rule out the movement of the cookie hand as being the cue that reinforcement is coming. He should keep doing the behavior even as the reinforcement moves. I found a video of Export doing it with a toy, but Kaladin should do it with cookies (and later on, the Nemo ball!) – specifically, when Export was doing continual hand touches while the toy was moving like I was going to throw it. That is what we can teach Kaladin, starting with the ‘keep hand touching while the cookies move’.
Here is the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA3B6NvPuJg
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
On the mountain climbers:
There is a good amount of tip on these now!! He is stopping a little short before the end of the board on these, shorter than I want him to – no more height for now til we get the weight shift sorted out. I think you can see what I am talking about on the last rep – he stopped short and lifted his head and kinda leaned back, which is the international sign for “I don’t know what I need to do with my body as the board is moving under me more”. Elektra was doing it when there was a lot of tip, and a few other dogs here are doing it (check out Krome for the big dog version of it). So before adding more, let’s do the detour of teaching them how to use their bodies in that moment. New game coming soon 🙂On your downhills –
>>I started where I stopped off at yesterday. I felt like maybe he was hopping off to avoid the bang, not 100% sure but I wanted to be positivie.
Maybe to avoid the bang? Or to pounce on and grab the toy? Hard to tell – I am leaning more towards toy grabbing in preparation for a victory tour. Also, there is more speed when the squirrel is involved so he might have been leaping because he didn’t know how to control the weight shift. Or all of the above. LOL! But it did not seem like a worry response because he got right back on.
>>He was a little bit slower when going after the food but not hesitent. I added in some tip, which he didn’t seem to mind.>>
Right! The food will cause them to all be a little slower plus there was no table to land on, so he know he had to stop. I think we can convince him to stop later on the plank but he was not acting worried about it.
>>>My plan is to pick up exaclty where is left off for our next session but probably use his raw to see if I can get some more drive to the end.>>
Sounds delicious! Peanut butter, smoked salmon and cream cheese are also big hits for my dogs along with the raw. I am sure my neighbors want to know why I am out there in my pajamas with plastic bags of animals parts LOL!
>>Bang Game and end position with wobble next. I have to get creative with the wobble as I don’t have a wobble board.>>
Hmmm, can you beg/borrow/steal one? OK, not steal but… You can take a square piece of wood, attach a yoga mat to it and a ball in a sock to the underside 🙂 No need to be terribly fancy. Do I remember that you have a tiny teeter tippy board or I am remembering wrong?
Stay tuned for the new game, posted as soon as I finish watching videos here!
T
Hi! I guess it is good news that she started without you? LOL! Good girl!
I heard about the snow in your area – bummer!!! I hope it melts ASAP!This is a bit of boring feedback 🙂 Not much to say other than it was excellent, let’s add more tip LOL!
She did great here – she was actually being a bit pushy which I personally LOVE LOVE LOVE – a little sassy bark, a little starting without you a few times – yay! I look at her being pushy as a sign of confidence and understanding – and that is GREAT! She was moving really nicely across the board and I don’t see any concern on her part. And the pushy behaviors were not frustration behaviors, they were more like “let’s go!” behaviors. How easy is it for you to add tip? I am not sure how easy it is to change the table height here, or if you can change the teeter height a little? I think she is ready for a bit more tip here! Since you have a little wait til the snow melts, we can focus on tip changes indoors for now 🙂
Great job!
TracyHi! Great session here! Adding the tip seemed to be no problem at all! (BTW, Elektra says smoked salmon leftover from breakfast is the BEST TREAT EVER for teeters. HA!) He seemed very happy to drive up the board! I feel confident that you can keep adding a tiny bit more tip with these fast & fun jackpot sessions. I have a balance game coming with the movement (will post it later this afternoon) that I think he should see before we add a TON of tip to this game- many of the dogs are struggling with the weight shift at the end when there is a lot of tip and losing confidence. The new game is to help them understand how to control their bodies while the world is moving under them 🙂 Since he is *gaining* confidence on this game, we will work the other one to help prepare him for when more tip is added. Stay tuned! Great job here!
TracyHi!
Nice session here! He was finding most of the entries consistently, and with motion from you, and the poles were more angled. Yay!
2 ideas for you:
– he wants to look back at you when he is “done” which is just after he enters the poles. So, try to throw as soon as his head ducks into the poles (and forgive yourself if you sometimes throw too soon LOL!) You were getting earlier and earlier as this session went on, and that is great! The other thing you can do is move your reward target another 10 feet further away, so you have more time to get the reward in – he is definitely driving to it so having it further away will help keep his head straight for longer 🙂– he had not trouble with the entries except for the entry that was at about 2:30 (3 o’clock was good, it was the slightly ‘softer’ entry there that was harder for some reason). So, you can isolate that entry with a clicker session, starting pretty close to the poles with them at 2 and 8 for a few reps: start close (close enough that it is easier to get the entry and harder to curl in to the other side of it) on the 2:30 angle and send him – when he gets to the correct side, click and toss the treat between the poles. Then after a couple of reps, when he is confidently moving to the correct side, delay the click til he gets into the poles. Then tighten the poles to 1 and 7, and repeat the process. Then add distance! That will help that entry gets as solid as the others.
Separately, you can tighten the poles not to 12 and 6 so they are straight, and work all of the strong entries (for now, avoid those hard entries until you have had a chance to clicker them on the angled poles :)) You can work the straight poles and then the harder entries will catch up 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>When adding the threadle entries, Hero kept trying to do “middle”, our start position for agility. I had to keep closing my legs or else I ended up with a ginger weirdo between them>
I noticed that! HA! You can use a line up cookie to have him come to your side instead of trying to add the middle LOL!
>>I tried to run straight with each rep (not my forte!).>>
The line up cookies will help this too, because you won’t be in motion before the send – that way you can give the send cue to start him and then just leave for the line without stepping to the poles at all. Overall, I thought your running lines were fine so you can add challenge of taking out your motion between the reward at the MM and the send to the entry: call him back and line him up, then send him without movement towards the poles.
This should help the threadles too, because he will figure out to NOT try to read your motion but to just go find the poles no matter what crazy thing you do 🙂 He did really well with the threadle entries, he just had a few questions on maintaining the path to the entry when you rear crossed behind him. More experience will help him sort that out.
>>When practicing extreme entries from 7-5 Hero kept adding in the number on the ground as something to pivot round before doing the weave poles. Is this just my body language making him do that? Or does he think it must be more complicated than just doing the poles?>>
I think that was all of the speed and motion happening sometimes after he got the MM cookie and as you got him near you to send back. Wheeeee! So line him up nice and tight to you so he does not add the number cones as obstacles LOL! We don’t want it here because it dilutes the difficulty of the angle of entry as he is shaping his line wider around them. If he keeps doing it, you can move them out of the picture so he can’t do it (it is not like he needs to see them LOL!)
Because he did so well here, you can tighten the poles to 1 and 7, and then get them straight, with all the entries and motion 🙂
>>I didn’t get to viewing the poles next to the tunnel yet, so maybe since we are not actually weaving yet, we can have another session tomorrow and look at that. But if he is using numbers as pivots, weaves near a tunnel will be interesting!>>
Yes, this stage of the progression is not hard on their bodies, so you can totally do this tomorrow if you want. It might be difficult because of the value of the tunnel! Or not, it might be easy peasy for him. It addresses a really common weave entry discrimination that I am sure you will see on course at the higher levels 🙂
Have fun! Great job here!
TracyHi!
Bummer about the snow, I hope it melts immediately! We have obstacles to train!I think he did well here! Yes, the 4 o’clock entry was hard but that goes into the recording keeping for you to revisit here on the pseudo-channels and also on the 2x2s. Everything else was strong – sends, adding motion, finding it from the tunnel, etc. Yay!
So next session – that would be a good time add in more of the difficult angles on both sides, mixed in with easy & fast straight-on reps too. Yes, you can go to the ball here but I think the timing of the marker would be the same (left shoulder @ pole 3). I don’t think he will pop out if you throw earlier, but I want to be sure by waiting for the ‘bend’ that means he is holding onto the entry.
Great job here! He is moving ahead really nicely!
TracyHi there!
I think the most important thing will be to sort out the reinforcement system and then use that to establish the reward line. He was not really grooving to the toy and trying to use the toy to set the reward line made it hard on the threadle entries.I know your Manners Minder was misbehaving, but you might want to wake it up because I think it is going to end up being the most useful. And if the treats in it are not enticing, you can increase the value by mixing in stinky stuff (at the moment, my MM has dried tripe mixed into it because Hot Sauce is in season and I need something REALLY interested for Contraband!). The smell ‘flavors’ the kibble 🙂
The visual of the MM is what really helps and the ease of reward placement. You can also use a giant bowl and meatballs to toss into it or make the toy land there every time 🙂
Looking at the videos:
On the first video, I agree, he had questions about the reward line. A warm up couple of reps of non-threadle sends can help set up the line. Having the MM out there as an active reinforcement target will also help – the toy throws were really good on the first half of the video but then later on, they shifted over and the line changed so it was a little less clear.2nd video – I think he was starting to figure out where the reward line was, but also told us about some questions on the entry on the 1-2-3-4-5 side of the clock. You can stay just close enough to the poles that it is easier to find the entry than it is to go past it, and you can alternate ‘normal’ sends with the threadle side sends – that can keep the rate of success high and the entries clear.
When you were on the 1-2-3-4-5 side, he had trouble with the normal sends too, so it might either be that that is a harder side in general, or he was unclear about which way the poles were going (which is why the super clear reward target will help provide the visual for now). And then I think he was getting a bit ‘under-aroused’ when he was getting it wrong, so keeping the session short was smart as you sort out the reinforcement structure.When you moved to the channels – he looked hot or not interested in the toy or both here, but better to stop and sort out reinforcement.
So – on the next session, try the MM or bowl with suuuper high value food reinforcement (perhaps use his breakfast or something equally exciting, if he likes meals :)) and use that to establish the reward line. You can also use line up cookies (if you are not already doing so) so the pingpong of rewards for the weaves, rewards for the line ups to send to the weaves for more rewards will get him really excited about the whole thing!
Let me know if that makes sense! You don’t need to isolate the threadle side entries and do an entire session of those at this point – we can slide them into other sessions after that reward line is established 🙂
TracyHi!
This looked great! I know you didn’t intend for the poles to be straight, but he was nailing the entries from all around the clock, with sends and motion from you. I think he had one error – from almost 6 o’clock on your left, but then you reset him with a line up cookie, and he found the entry. Great job working a wide variety of challenges (I think I even saw a rear cross in there!).
So since he did so well, on the various sends and motion around the clock: you can get him more excited, maybe tugging before and after each rep or getting him wilder with a bit of chatter like “ready, steady, wheee!” to challenge him to still find all of those angles with the poles straight.
And if he can, it is setting you up beautifully for the games that are coming up.For the threadle side entries – you might want to have the poles a little angled at 1 and 7 perhaps to get the threadle side started. And if it is too easy, you can close them back up. Too hard? Angle them more open 🙂
The other thing I suggest is taking the 2 poles and doing a bit of couple of sessions with a tunnel right there. If you don’t have easy access to a tunnel, put a jump or wing where the tunnel would be. That will introduce the discrimination that is so popular nowadays 🙂
Great job here!!
TracyHi! The length here is fine, we needed to see the entire session not just the entries.
Speaking of entries – these are going well! You can add in a little motion to it now to see if he can still get the entries while you are walking up the line.
>> but I think I’ve created an MM obsession 😳 He does this same thing with our RDW training… stands there and stares at it like he can will it to spit out more food!>>
Perhaps a little obsessed LOL! This is pretty normal, actually, so a couple of things to suggest:
first, the line up cookie to come back to you can be higher value than whatever is in the MM. I use string cheese for the line up cookie and kibble in the MM – and my food driven dogs still think the MM is better LOL! So it is down the poles to the MM, then I call the dog back (my cue for Hot Sauce to come line up is “ice cream!”) and then she gets a bite of the cheese during the line up – then back down the poles, and so on.I have also done a lot of shaping using the MM where the dog has to leave the MM to do something in order to get the MM to dispense the goodies.
>> In hindsight I think I created this by multiple “clicks” for jackpots… does that make sense? I think he’s not sure if there might not be just one more if he waits? >>
Yes, this totally makes sense – from his perspective, it might be a ‘you get what you click’ behavior: one click is for the poles, theoretically… but then when we think ‘jackpot’ and click several more times, he is getting several clicks for standing there staring at it. So the ratio of clicks-for-poles to clicks-for-staring is skewed in favor of clicks-for-staring. So… he offers more staring at it, of course 🙂
The line up cookie will totally help fix that ratio, and no more clicks for jackpots (I sometimes go dump in more cookies from my hand for a fabulous moment but I don’t do multiple clicks).Let me know if that makes sense! Have a safe trip to Florida, see ya when you get back!!
Tracy
Hi! Two ways you can deepen his understanding:
You can change your position he is between you and the cone or stanchion but it very easy for him to turn away. For example, the cone is on his left, he is on your left, so the line goes:
Cone – Robbie – you. Then you cue a left wrap. You can start with an easier angle if needed but at this stage the cone or stanchion should be the stimulus.
Also, you can use a hand cue – and then fade it. Say the word, then do the cue (after the verbal) and the hand cue just keeps getting smaller and smaller and smaller til it is eventually gone 🙂
When he understands how to turn away from you on he verbal, you can play with lacing him center of the cone or wing so he can see both sides and then work the verbal – I suggest starting with tiny hand signals to help first there, then fade them out too 🙂Tracy
Hi! Great job here!
Yes, I hear you are getting hit pretty hard with a blizzard, I hope the snow is only there for a minute and then melts 🙂 I am so tired of winter!
The sending is going well! She has great commitment to the barrels. When you have more room, lead out more laterally so she is challenged with more distance on the sends. You were leaving really nicely and her commitment was great, so more distance on the lead out will add challenge for both of you: you can send from further away and leave sooner, and she will have to maintain commitment as you leave.
You can also play this game on a wing rather than the barrels, to transfer the concept to the wing which will eventually become jumps.The sits are going well too – I don’t know why she couldn’t get herself into the sit on the 2nd rep, maybe just a little distraction? We saw that same little distraction t 2:26, even with a cookie right there and then again at the end of the video. So there is something there catching her eye – you can use that as an opportunity to do some tricks in front of distractions! She did give you a lot of nice stays an great job with all of the rewards (catch and pizza!).
Nice work here! Let me know what you think.
TracyHi!
>Quite possibly the funniest video I have done thus far.
Thank you for the heads up, I made sure to pee before watching so I would not gave an accident from laughing LOL!
Flying Squirrel for the win! And the fast forward chipmunk voice was great lol Still laughing!
I don’t mind the victory laps at all – it allows him to blow off some steam (there is pressure in teeter training!) and we want the whole thing to be associated with a big party! And it was – you were being a nut, and so was he. Wheeee!!! Definitely bring that squirrel out for the teeter training in other places too!
You can add a 2nd flying squirrel in to help bring him back sooner 🙂 You might notice I had 2 frizzers with CB in the demos just to convince him to come back within the hour haha!
So… gradually oh so gradually add tip, so he barely notices because he is too busy obsessing on the squirrel. New games are added today, and the uphill and downhill are all about adding tip 🙂
Great job here!
TracyHi!
>>It’s so interesting to train both of these methods at the same time and see how they create different questions for the dogs!>>
I agree – it is the first time I have deliberately trained them both at the same time… things are moving very quickly here! I am about 10 days ahead of the class in terms of filming demos… and Contraband weaved 4 straight poles today (his first shaping of poles is in the first demo video). The 2 methods cover a lot of bases and the understanding transfers: I believe it is the channel games that made adding poles 3 and 4 in the 2x2s very easy! Elektra is not on 4 straight because she literally only turned a year old yesterday, so I am going more slowly with her. I am excited to see Presto sort through this all too!
Great job on the video here. He was really sorting out that hard entry – note how he had to slow himself down to get it at one point, then he was almost perfect (and fast) after that! You can be closer to the poles on that particular entry, so he it is easier to get the entry and he has less room to curl in and grab the gap between the poles. And nice job adding balance with the other things like straight entries, left side sends, and I think I saw a threadle in there too! And adding the MM at the end was perfect.
When you do the hard entry on the channels, start really close – those other poles are very distracting 🙂 And you can click the entry and drop a treat right in the middle of the channels to really mark the moment.
Great job here!
TracyYay! I love the training side of things, so I love being able to problem solve this stuff!
>> She has just been rocking her agility training and then bam I was like I ruined my puppy>>
Not a all! You are both still rocking it.
>>Of course we have a snow storm moving in as I typed but they said it will be gone in a day or so and we will get out there and take another crack at it with actual weaves.>>
NOOOOOOO to the snow! Bleh!! Tell it to go away. Someday I will win the lottery and build a big complex so all of my northern friends can spent their winters here. I was whining today that it was only 55 and I was cold LOL!!!!
T
