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Good morning!
I agree, more clarity is great – mainly because without the clarity, the dogs expend a lot of mental energy looking at or looking for the reinforcement – and then they get frustrated with us 🙂
The video is listed as private, can you reset to unlisted?
>>Get It is my cue for tossed food or toy
Perfect!
>>Cookie from hand, never really had a verbal for this, just a presentation of my hand -going to use cookie as a verbal for this, although this may lead to a conflict with when I use food in a remote bowl for reward – get the cookies is my cue for accessing the bowl
I agree, this might cause confusion:
if ‘get it’ is a tossed reward, and ‘get the cookies’ is find the bowl, and ‘cookies’ is treat-from-hand… I think they are too similar. So take the one that you think if strongest (if ‘get the cookies’ is strongest, for example) and leave the strongest one in place. Then change the words for the other two: toss for the tossed ones, or hand for the ones from the hand 🙂 I know, I am not very creative haha!>Catch, never used a verbal for this other than get it – going to use “catch” as the new cue
Follow the hand, never used a verbal for this, going to use “follow”>>These both sound good!
>>I have to keep a pace with rewards, any delay and Cody gets Operant with offering, you can see a bit of this in the food from hand game in the video. I did not ask him to down>>
That is fine for now, probably because he was thinking these games were too good to be true LOL!! Free cookies! We will get to offering behavior and responding to cues really soon, so he will have to earn his treats LOL!
Toy Cues
>>Get it has been my cue tug from hand -going to change this to “tug”
Take it is my cue for getting a dead toy or ball off the ground. No more chasing toys or balls for the boy. He has no regard for his body and he is 9 1/2. I worry about him getting hurt with his chase anticsThese sound good! And I agree about ball chasing… we need to make sure he doesn’t break himself!
>>>Going to use “catch” for a tossed ball. these get presented so he can easily grab them>>
Tossed back to him to pluck fro the air, like the treats? Perfect!
I am looking forward to the video – let me know when it is unlisted 🙂
TracyHi! This is looking really strong!
For the first two procedures (get it and snacks) – your placement was really very clear and that is great. One suggestion: try to say the word and *then* move the hand – you were moving the hand with the word for get it and moving it a little before the word for the snacks. Word-then-movement will help isolate and strengthen the word and get him to look at your hands less.
When you worked these as the combo, your hand was pretty stationary for snacks so the word was really distinct, and that was great!For the follow-the-cookie: “hand” is a really good choice of words because it can be elongated to match the movement of the hand! For the most part your hand was stationary til just after you started the word, so keep it like that: start the word then starting moving the hand.
He is really ‘catching’ on to the ‘catch’ procedure (pun intended LOL!) He was starting to stay where he was and also starting to offer sits! Yay! To help really solidify the position, you can begin with him on a mat or bed or something, so he is already away from you – it is hard to start the catch when he is right in front of you.
catch – you can start him on a mat or something so he is already stationaryWhen doing catch and get it in the same session, you can differentiate them more clearly: catch is where he has to stay where he is or turn back to find the reward. For get it, if he is already facing you, toss it off to the side so he moves away to get it, rather than turning back to it.
Nice work here! Onwards to the toys!
Tracy
PS: >> I tried the get game with Jackson and he reacted like a Jai Alai player!>>Oh dear, did he tackle you? I don’t know the ins-and-outs of Jai Alai!
Hello and welcome, great to see you here!!
>> He is definitely a foodie but I am trying to get him interested in toys. He will tug and chase a ball but only in the most relaxed environments. He has been pretty clear that an agility field is for running agility and not for playing with toys.
Because he will chase a ball and interact with a tug, we can work to ‘insert’ that into the procedures to build value. Stay tuned for more on that – I just did that with a tennis ball for one of the youngsters who had no interest in tennis balls… but is going to learn flyable, so the ball had to become exciting LOL! And we can do the same for Keltie!
>>Keltie is almost 4 years old and the polar opposite of Buccleigh. She likes agility but it’s kind of a fun game and not an intense experience. She is consistent but often slow. She runs faster when we are both confident and I think there is potential for improvement. She is an intense foodie and has been know to stop mid stride on a course if she smells a cookie anywhere in the vicinity.
She not too excited about toys but she will tug and chase things when she is relaxed. She absolutely thinks that the manners minder is the best thing that was ever invented.
Both dogs do better when I can reward with food while we train. I think this course is really going to help us transition from rewarding in the ring to rewarding outside the ring.>>Yes! We want to be able to ‘do it all’: reward in the ring as needed, but also teach the dogs how to run courses with the reward outside the ring and still love to run! The remote reinforcement procedure gets that started. And her love of the MM might prove to be incredibly helpful!!!!
I am looking forward to work on this with Keltie and Buccleigh!
Tracy
Hi!
Great lists! Clearly motion-based reinforcement is high value for her. And since toys raise the state of arousal to a place where it might be difficult for her, then you can really focus on the comob procedures: toy-food back-and-forth games, to help balance the arousal. And since she usually can take food. have you considered food-based toys, like a lotus ball or a treat hugger? I know that they are generally used by dogs that don’t love tug toys, but it might be a nice way to balance her arousal: movement plus food 🙂And her love of playing with trash will save you a lot of money on expensive tug toys LOL!!!!
The toy hierarchy sounds good too, as well as the activity hierarchy. The toys might be something you use in training to simulate trial arousal, but food is the main reinforcement at trials. It will take some experimenting to know for sure. And it is not surprising that at higher levels of arousal, she is NOT into snuggling LOL! That is pretty normal for most BCs that I know 🙂
Onwards to the games 🙂
TracyHi there!
Great lists!!For Laci – the food hierarchy looks fabulous. We can expand her toy hierarchy: do you have a treat hugger? It is another great treat delivery toy. And, if you have time in the next couple of days, fire up the Manners Minder and get her excited about it. I think you can use it for your get it marker and we can also add it to a lot of different things, including the remote reinforcement 🙂
Also, does she like bully sticks or pigs ears or anything like that? We can use those as toys! Ewww, I know… but if it gets her fired up, then it is worthwhile 🙂
And I think we can use some of the activities too like the sniffing and chasing!Keko’s food hierarchy looks great but the toy hierarchy is cracking me up! I wonder if we can put dirty socks into your training bag to take to trials LOL!!! We can totally use the various balls and toys in the procedures.
And as with Laci, I think we can incorporate the activities too~ you will need to ‘name’ them so they can be built up into markers: I have used “go for a run!” and ‘take a sniff’, for example.
Great job! Onwards to the foundation procedures!
TracyHi!
Great job with the toy games!Catch – he really likes the ball! Yay! Before you were saying catch, you had your hand in the air – that might be because he was so close to you. So to strengthen the marker, you can try having him stay on a mat or something, so he is not as close – it is hard to do a catch when the dog is right in front of us LOL! That will make the mechanics feel easier, and you won’t feel the need to throw it over his head, and you can keep your hand lower until after you said ‘catch’.
The get it section looked strong, Could really see you separating the words from the movement, like at 1:33 – good timing there and generally good timing throughout! And he of course thought it was super easy LOL!
He wa a good boy going from the balls to the tuggee! I agree, I don’t think you said chomp LOL! So add it in 🙂 And also, does he have a ‘bring it’ or ‘out’ cue going? Those can help set up a nice little loop of the get it, bring it, out, chomp!
Great job with these1 I am looking forward to applying them soon!
TracyHi! Good question!
Depending on how you use catch and get it, there should be no confusion if you keep them different.
For catch -the dog should stay where he is because the cookie is coming to him. Tat is why we throw it to him or just behind him.
Get it is a moving marker – meaning, he should move forward to get the reward. I don’t use ‘get it’ when rewarding staying in position and throwing the cookie back to the dog – that is a ‘catch’ moment. If I wanted to use get it, I would throw it forward or slightly off to the side, so the dog will move forward out of the position. Catch is like pizza delivery to your doorstep: stay there, it is coming to you 🙂 Get it is like going out to dinner- you have to leave your position to get to the food, which is somewhere ahead of you.
let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>Boy. . . I need to catch myself. Sometimes I say the verbal and toss/hand movement at the same time. I need to clean up my mechanics.
Video is great for this – we see things we don’t notice in ‘real time’ and it keeps up honest. I think being super careful in the foundation stages will allow us to be a title muddy when we are running and arms are flying everywhere LOL!
>>I video both Flurry and Skye. I though it mentioned somewhere that we could show the other dog but making sure to not go over 10 minutes a week. Otherwise, just ignore Flurry:-)>>
Yes both dogs can be in the video 🙂
Speaking of the video: it is indeed a fine line between moving too soon and moving too late, for presenting the reward after the marker.
You were being a bit too slow on the get it toss in the beginning but then you got quicker. Because you are a musician, think of it as 2 1/8th notes then a quarter note – you hand moves on the quarter note 🙂 If your hand moves on the 1/8th note, you are too early. If your hand move on the downbeat of the next measure (we are in 2/4 time here haha) then you are late.Question: Was her head down because she was looking down for the treats? She seemed engaged and was happy to eat the cookie however ou presented, but had a lowered head position. It was hard to tell because her back wa stop the camera, but I think she was just looking downwards to get the treat? her get its and catches looked great!
I see what you mean about Skye’s get it, trying to get the cookies as you release them. You can teach the procedure with him starting on a mat or Cato board or something – he in on the board facing you, you say get it and toss off to the side so he moves away to get it. The other option is to have him at your side, hold his collar if he doesn’t mind that, say get it, toss, then let go 🙂 That can build an understanding that get it involves leaving you and doesn’t involve trying to catch the treat LOL!
he did well with the catch – your hand was moving a little too much, so this is a good one to remind yourself not to move your hand.The shhh marker was surprising to him for some reason, he is probably not used to following a cookie hand? So, you can move the hand more slowly so it is right at his nose, and give him the cookie more frequently. He really likes cookies so he will figure this one out really quickly 🙂
>>I don’t have video of this, but I can do Get it with cheese on my front walkway with leaves all over, and he doesn’t grab to eat the leaves. So, there is some success there. Just need to keep working on incrementally adding in plant material as distractions. I can take him on walks or hikes, and he won’t eat things for 80% of the time now. Oh! And, he runs to get in the car now! He started to panic on car rides, but Dr. Overall had me use Sileo to D and CC to the car and rides. It worked like a charm. He had associated my car with going to the vet. I’ve had to switch to a mobile vet for him.
This is amazing!!! Well done!!!!!! He is doing really well 🙂
>> I’m working on the plan on how to get him back to going to the regular vet, but I’m not going to take him until I can go in with him. Flurry is now refusing to get out of the car at the vet.>>
I saw a CU game done inside a vet’ office, I am sure you know which one it is … Maybe the vet will let you come in to play the game but not actually get a treatment?
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
This is looking really good!
He thought get it was the easiest best thing ever LOL! Indoors and outdoors, it all looked good and easy for him. One thing to be super careful of is when you have the treats in your hand, be stationary when you say get it… then toss the treats, Try not to lean over at all to begin the toss, and don’t move your hand – stay perfectly still, say get it, wait half of a heartbeat 🙂 then throw the treat. This will help to really isolate the word and keep him from watching your body movement as the main cue for reinforcement.Catch – this went well too! He wants to come forward as you are throwing, so feel free to throw behind him. For example, when he was in the down – you don’t have to throw it to his mouth, you can throw it to his tail – yes, he will get up to get the treats but that is fine – catch is like a release in that way. This will be a useful one for adding distance skills!
My dogs loved the way you were saying ‘catch’, they all came running over to the computer LOL!You had a ‘cookie’ marker, I think that is your come-to-hand marker – this was your best on in terms of saying the word while being stationary (he totally responded to the word cookie!) and then you moved the cookie hand to encourage him to come in to get it. That was spot on!
One other thing what was really strong throughout the sessions: great job with praise after he got the cookies – it keeps the mechanics ‘cleaner’ but also builds in the praise because that is also useful at trials.Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>I feel like we’re still in the pendulum swinging phase where sometimes our toy play is too crazy, so we put some structure on it, then it gets too structured so we need to swing the other way and hopefully some day end up in that sweet spot.>>
Totally normal! You’ll find that sweet spot, you are doing a great job of keeping this fun and clear for him!
>>In that last session I think we were both trying to be calmer and less rambunctious to avoid inciting the mini poodle in his crate on the far end of the room
Ah yes, we have an elderly mini poodle and my youngsters definitely are careful to avoid inciting him 🙂 Totally relatable LOL!
>>He is a fan of motion (not surprisingly) so we played the 2 toy relay back and forth to get him driving in on the retrieve and he definitely liked it.
I agree! He rocked it! This might be a subtle digression from the basic reinforcement procedures… he wants to ‘bound’ to the dead toy, so I think the next step I getting him to drive to it is to get his head down. That will continue to build drive, and it will add in weight shift (which is useful for future weaves, jumping, teeters, etc.) – have you ever done the reverse retrieve? It is a dead toy Countermotion game (which also builds lovely future countermotion skills on jumps). Since he is doing well with the 2 toy game here, you can play with the reverse retrieve. It basically looks like this, to get started (I think my puppy was 12 weeks old here):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-Fpva_Em18Since you already have strong focus forward happening and the 2 toy chase game looks really lovely, this will be a really fun game for the dead toy. In this video, I kept the toy close to her (it was her first session) and then over time you can throw the toy further and further away – he will drive hard to the toy because he wants to get back to you quickly 🙂
I also eventually use it to proof the get it a little bit but we can do that after he is driving hard to it.
>>He’s a little odd (in a good way) in that he’s really not into possessing the toy. He really loves the act of tugging and talking about it (both with me and other dogs). When he “wins” he either tries to shove the toy back into your hands (or the other dog’s mouth) or just drops it.
I find it charming – looking at the adorable 8 week old video, he was all about DA MOMMA! And was crawling into your lap with the toy – so sweet! I love it! That is something I really love about the boy dogs!
>>1. Baby Ripley in his first tug and retrieve session at 8 weeks
This was the sweetest thing! Bringing the toy for tugs and hugs <3 what a good boy!
>>2. Ripley playing tug with our other dog’s butt last night – I swear I don’t make this stuff up. First the toy was sitting next to me and I put my hand on it, he was tugging and growling, even shifting his weight back, but not actually pulling back. I let go of the toy and it didn’t move an inch while he continued to pretend to tug. WTF 🤣? Then the Swissy sat on it and he did the same thing, pretending to tug, but not really pulling – he’s crazy!>>
OMG that was hilarious! The Swissy was so funny too: “I don’t see him, I don’t know him…” LOL! I am till chuckling LOL!
Great job here! Let me know what you think about the reverse retrieve!
TracyHi!
Yes, we will be looking at the application for the shhhhh – for the food, it is mainly used for moments when we need to reset the dog or when looping back to an anteceden. For the toy, I find that it helps focus the dog on the toy we want him to grab and not my hand, which we don’t want him to grab LOL!More coming when we post up the next set of games 🙂
Tracy
