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Good morning!
I think your handling/movement looked good here! And I totally see what you mean by her having more trouble with the left side entries. It could be the visual of the other poles make it more challenging or she doesn’t see the entry as well as the wrapping that first pole on the right side entries. Either way, we can take a 2-fold approach to the training:
On the right side entries and the easier left side entries (like the straight-ish ones) – you can work on the 12 straight poles, getting them totally in line as one unit. She looks ready on that side!
On the left side harder entries… you can refresh them on 4 poles or 6 poles (without the 2nd set there) and then when she is more comfy with them, add in that 2nd set pretty far away so they are less visually distracting. If you do it on 4 poles, you can get a lot of success and reward right away, which is going to help her out.
Ideally we don’t open the poles back up or change your speed, unless she continues to have questions – then yes, open them up a little. But I would see how they go on closed poles and fewer poles at first.Then I think it will be straightforward to transfer the left side entries onto straight poles, because she will be experienced on the 12 straight because of her work on the right side and easier entries.
>> Yes, I did sign up for “Putting it all Together” – I thought that was the sequel to these courses! – duh! – but I thought that the “Camp” was only for more experienced dogs – if you think Yowza could cut it, I would love to put her in it. Please lmk – thanks!>>
No worries, sorry for the confusion – we don’t usually have the puppy classes run back-to-back for 2 generations of puppies but this has been a crazier year LOL! CAMP has several different levels so you can pick what you want to work her on – if it helps, my 2 youngsters are going to be the main demo dogs and they are similar to Yowza in skill level. There are some bigger courses that you can work parts of or try the whole thing, depending on how you think she will do 🙂
I can switch you over: did you want a working spot?Thanks!
TracyHi!
He did well here. You totally handled the drive by moments really well – I think they were caused by 2 variables changing at once, rather than one variable. The 2 variables on the misses were the added speed coming from the tunnel plus harder angles of entry (he did better when you set the line to the entry when he was on your left, and the entry when you had him on your right was a serp entry – hard!) On that serp entry, you slowed down to help him and we really want him to be able to get it with speed – so that is when you can open the poles a little.
He is definitely working out what he wants to do with his striding – he is using his head and bending his body a lot better than ever before! Yay! He is still sorting out how to use his feet though, it is like he is not sure if he wants to swim or bounce. It might be that he is not sure how to alternate leads? I think the cavalettis will help and also you can have them be a bit offset or curved as well. And the zig zag grids will help sort out the back and forth of the front feet – I can’t remember if I mentioned those or not? I scrolled up and don’t see it… let me know if you have done zig zag grids with him and we can keep helping him sort out his feet. I am convinced that the key is in body awareness away from the weaves and then it will get transferred into the weaves.
You can also play with finding the exact sweet spot on 4 poles where he can stride. You can use 2x2s for that, a little open and just play with how far open they need to be to get the striding. And once we get that on 4 poles, we can chain the 4 poles together so we get more consistent striding. If he can only sort it out on 4 poles for now, that is perfectly fine – we can do 4 poles then 10 feet then 4 poles then 10 feet and so on….Let me know what you think! I am excited to see if we can figure out the key to his feet!
TracyHi! The chair is definitely harder outside! It also tells us how much he is relying on your position and motion, so I have 2 ideas for you:
For the chair moments outside, open up the poles so it is very easy for him to go do it without you – when he gets rewarded early and often, he will be more than happy to let you sit in a chair while he weaves LOL!For when you are moving, the poles can be a harder and more closed up, but resist the temptation to help him. When he was on the closed set at the end of the video, he was weaving… but you were cuing it a lot with body motion. So in the interest of getting him as independent as possible, try not to help him go in and out – you can move alongside but let him do the weaving 🙂 If he struggles, keep the poles open as long as needed. It is hard to not help, I feel that LOL!!!! But ideally he learn to go do these without you (same as he would with a tunnel) so while he is weaving, you can be running somewhere else to get ahead of him on course.
You can totally work both elements (chair and no chair :)) and then they will come together 🙂
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Thanks for the video. I see a couple of things here that can help plan his training:
First, I think the value here has shifted to speed and extension on the line, which is great! It was what you were working on and so… here it is 🙂 So we need to balance back in a little more collection. It is normal that the value will swing back and forth til he is an adult.Second – he is not reading deceleration as a collection cue. Not anything worrisome, just an observation and something you are seeing too. I think you were making pretty clear transitions and he seemed surprised 🙂 He did better when you started without motion and close to the jump, and he also did better turning to his left than to his right.
Set up your training to have the decel be more of an antecedent to the behavior of collection: take the jump out of the picture and do this on a wing as a “rocking horse” – at about the distance you had here, wrap the first wing or cone, drive to the next wing and do a transition – then do a turn and burn exit where you have the more dramatic L-shaped line of exit like you did on the very last transition rep here. And keep moving and running til he catches up to you for the reward. The turn and burn exit and staying in motion is designed to convince him to set up his own collection and chase you out of it, with the deceleration being the cue that it is coming.
And I suggest going back to the wing because it will get the behavior a lot more quickly because the wing elicits the collection better than a jump does. And when you see him regularly adding collection before the wing on your decel – then you can add back the rest of the jump. Be sure to not be helpy but putting yourself ahead at the wing or stationary or with your hand out past the wing: we really need to teach him to do this independently of your position at the wing.And 3rd thing – he doesn’t turn his head into the turns, especially to his right. So you had asked about foundation things you might have missed: that leading with the head/head turn game is something to revisit here. As the youngsters mature, it is a good game to refresh a lot to remind them to bend into the turns, leading with the head 🙂
On the blind crosses – nice! You were earlier and stayed in motion and the turns were already tighter. Nice connection too! You can add in the tunnel and see how early you can get him to commit while you do the blind. And the speed lines at the end look great – yay! That is where the value is right now, so keep rewarding those as we keep getting tighter turns.
Nice work! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi –
>>.seems like I just get 2 extension strides (for me) then it’s time to decel and by the time I decel he’s committed and one stride from take off…and needs turn cue…so decel/turn cue almost need to happen same time? Tried longer space and he was faster so it was harder to show decel etc.
A couple times when I decelled he stopped and turned around before the jump too..>>Faster is good! The decel and rotation should not be at the same time, because that is when the young dogs slam on the brakes and stop in front of the jump. Feel free to post the video. The other thing you can do is help him better prepare for the turn by replacing the full jump with just the wing. Don’t worry too much about the timing of the rotation for now – the rotation is not what creates the collection, it is the deceleration. So you can work on acceleration, decel then turn and burn. Think of it as the ABCs (antecedent, behavior, consequence):
If the behavior we want is collection: the antecedent (cue) is the decel, he does a behavior and then the consequence is that he chases you through the turn and burn for the reward. That type and placement of reinforcement will encourage more collection! It is possible that you have been using too much of being right at the wing or putting your hand cue in on the other side of the wing, so he doesn’t recognize deceleration as a cue to begin to collect 🙂
Let me know if that makes sense!
TracyHi!
What training opportunities are available in NZ in the trial ring? I think she probably needs a lot of training in the ring opportunities, so you can build value for being correct on the first attempt, rather than failing then getting reset. That is what was happening here too, she was also breaking then getting reset. You might consider training it over from scratch, in a different position like a down so you can have a blank slate approach to the new stay and reward & maintain it.On the jump grid- interestingly, she shortens her stride to land short on jump 2 here too. So the distance is not really the issue – we just need to figure out how to get more power from her hind end 🙂 Have you done a set point with her? It is just 2 jumps but it asks for more power over the 2nd bar – here is a clip of a young dog doing it, but with an adult dog we add height to the 2nd bar. So you can have the first bar as low as possible and the 2nd bar maybe halfway to full height? And other than jumping exercises, you can ramp up your plyometric and core strengthening work so she is super strong too 🙂
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkGIcK56dJM
Good job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Yes, blinds are a motion-based skill so staying in motion helps, even if it is walking or jogging 🙂
>>I will do more racetrack and do usually do a lot of tunnels and fun stuff at the end that isn’t on the videos.>>
Super! Mix in lots and lots of that 🙂
T
Hi!
I think the Turn And Burn foundations are my favorite wrap foundations because they really teach the dogs to drive hard in and out of collection:
https://agility-u.com/lesson/wing-wrap-foundations-part-3-turn-and-burn-2/
THi!
This is going well! He was driving across the board with confidence on the full teeter. Yay! I think the last piece of the puzzle is getting him to look at you less and down/ahead a little more. At this stage, it is all about adjusting the placement of reinforcement to get and maintain the head position. We used the toss backs to get him to understand he needed to stay in position and that is going well! And I think he is now anticipating that and raising his head position, so we can now encourage the lowered head/looking forward using the MM (or any reward out ahead for him to focus on). You can work the understanding on his training plank – with the very narrow target, have him leap into position and then you can release and reward with the MM (no more rewards in position or from your hand, for now). And I recommend the little plank because it will be easier to do lots of reps without any concussion on his body. And after a session or two of that, you can take it to the bang game and elevator games. Then… back to the full teeter.You can also put the teeter (crazy elevator game and the full teeter) into little sequences to add more speed and begin transferring the understanding to other scenarios.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! She did really well here!
After the full teeter, she was happy to come back and do more and that is GREAT! If she was really concerned, we would see a reaction from her when asked to do the full teeter. I am super glad she was happy to come back for more!
On the full teeter, she drove across it well and I think she is still sorting out how to shift her weight back and where to do it. The PB target helped because she had a focal point and then a big jackpot upon arrival 🙂 The weight shift at the end is happening in other games, so I am confident that she will sort it out with more experience.
With that in mind, I suggest just continuing to add in more full teeter reps, with the target visible, into the various games and also into sequences here and there (mixed in with elevator games and massively valuable rewards). And you can get her more stimulated with toys and food so she drives even faster across the board 🙂 Separately, you can be fading the target out of the 2o2o position on a plank because pretty soon we can fade it out from the teeter too 🙂Great job here!!!
TracyHi!
>> But off my left when I got to a full 12 he skips a pole in the middle, always on my side and I think always in the same place….pole 5? or maybe 7? And then he re-enters and finishes all of them. I know it’s hard to “analyze” with video but I wanted to throw it out to you in case it’s something you’ve seen before.
It sounds like he is having a little bit of trouble holding onto the rhythm and balance while also going fast – it is one of the 2 things that we run into at this stage (the other thing is when the dogs pop out at 10 on our left side because they are looking at us and anticipating the reward).
Something you can try is to have the entry and exit of the poles closed/straight, but have the middle (poles 5-6-7-8) a little tiny bit open so they are easier. An inch might help, or even less! And then he can recover his balance and finish strong. And then you can close those slightly open poles one at a time, while he learns to hold his balance and striding. And that way you don’t need to dial back your speed 🙂
Usually when it is on one side, it is a reinforcement anticipation issue – he is trying to watch you and has to move away on the left side So one other thing to try is rather than reward straight, you can give him extra reason to NOT look at you by throwing the reward to the other side of the poles (to the 4 or 5 o’clock side). You can see me doing some of that with Contraband who was totally wanted to look at me.
>> I think I just expected both sides to “go at the same pace” and for whatever reason that isn’t the case.>>
I agree that logically it makes sense… but reality is that we all experience the 2 sides moving along at different rates 🙂
Let me know if that makes sense! Have fun!
TracyHi! She did really well here!
I think the first couple of rewards after pole 6 were good to do, even if they interrupted her flow a little 🙂 That 2nd set was a little bit of a visual distraction so she was having a little struggle with her striding. But then by the 3rd rep she was more comfy and did fine doing all 12. And it was a nice short session!
>> More of the same, just 6 & 6, or should I start closing the gap?>>
I believe you can move forward: start the next session with a rep of the poles exactly like this, then on each rep move them a little closer. If at any point she has a question, stop moving them closer and work through the question (if she fails twice, you can spread them out again). However, knowing Keiko, it is entirely possible that she might be able to do 12 straight poles in that next session. We only have about 5 or 6 passes through the poles in that one session (whether they are 6 and 6 or all 12) so if you don’t get them totally to 12 straight in that one session because it is too many reps, that is fine – the following session is when they can be straight 🙂
Great job here! I am looking forward to seeing what she does when the poles get closer!
TracyHi!
This went REALLY well! You handled it beautifully, and Ruby said “Got it!” Look how fast she went on the last rep, holy cow LOL!! Nothing to change or tweak here… just add speed. LOL! You can stretch out the wings so she is going faster. And you can also add in race tracks where she runs the outside of the wings – then challenge her to pay attention when you call her and shift into the tandem turns (and it challenges you to show them properly, just like you did here :))
And of course you can make up little sequences with the front crosses, lap turns, tandem turns and race tracks all in one! When you foot is feeling up to it, you can also do the Starfish game which has these turns (but needs a lot of handler motion).>>Oh, I have a question. You did you say puts on a good Running contact class? Jordan Biggs? Can’t remember. I have all my notes and video’s from when I did it with Dawn Weaver with Jedi. And I’m sure I could train Ruby with that. But sometimes it is nice to have eye’s watching as you go along.>>
Yes, Jordan Biggs. The class she was doing here on AU just finished up, but I think she might also be offering it over on the Clean Run Learning Center?
Great job here!!!
TracyHello, welcome back!
I think this went well – the warm up looked good. The target placement was rally good (he was adding in the scratching at it too!) One thing on these is to get the cookie hand out from above his head as the board is dropping – feed the cookie for arriving at the top of the board then get the visual of the hand out of there, so he doesn’t look up at it while you drop the board 🙂
One other thing you can do, and this will likely help the full teeter as well, is have the MM out front of the board, 2 metres away or more – so he arrives in his end position with the target, then either gets rewarded in position or you can release to the MM. Since this is a ‘new’ concept to him, introduce it with a low bang game or a little bit of elevator game (also low) so it is not a surprise or too tempting 🙂 As soon as he understands the parameters of “go to the end position and wait til the release” he will use the MM as a focal point rather than watch you.
So that way, in the crazy elevator game from the tunnel, he will watch your hand less as he drives up the board. On the 3 reps, he was good with driving across the board on reps 1 and 3 – I think he was watching your hand a little and also reading your deceleration. So don’t send as much to the tunnel (it causes you to stand still next to the teeter more than he needs), so you can be running more when he exit the tunnel. That will help accelerate him across the board – then you can reach out and grab it for the elevator game, then present the reward. So there will be a lot more motion and action.
And since he looks pretty darned happy here – throw in a regular full teeter here (and jackpot it even if it is not perfect). Getting more full teeters going and more motion will keep him driving to the end more. As for the 2nd rep where he stopped in the middle? That was odd – and he didn’t repeat it. It was almost like he saw something and stopped to look at it. It was an anomaly, so we won’t worry about it unless he does it again.
So you can do 2 things now: introduce the MM or some sort of reward target out front, and (separately) add in more motion on the crazy elevator game and some full teeters 🙂
Nice work! Let me know if that makes sense!
TracyHi!
This is a good one to work on, it is important for the adult dogs too!>> I had a lot of trouble mostly with Ruse waiting in position. The video was really long so I had to cut out some of the work I did throwing treats back to Ruse to catch. When we competed the other weekend, the wait on the start line was the first thing to breakdown.>>
Stays are hard, indeed 🙂 At the competition – what did you do when she broke the stay? You did a good job reinforcing the stays here, but she still have enough errors that the rate of success was not as high as we want it to be – which means either it is too difficult or there is confusion about when/what the release actually is. You were clear on the release here, so it is important to be as clear in trials too. Also, it is important to raise the rate of success on the stays – which might mean that you need to take very short lead outs at competition so you can release before she breaks the stay, and also do some training runs to reward in the ring.
On the jumping form – she was consistent and rhythmic, which is good! Question: what was the distance here? She was a little ‘short’ especially on the 2nd jump, meaning her front feet landed just past the jump bar when ideally her front feet should land in the middle of the gap between the jumps. You might need to shorten up the gap to help her do that. Some dogs are still short when we make a smaller gap between jumps (one of mine is!) at which point, you can work on more plyometric exercises in conditioning (pushing off of the rear, to add power and strength) and also some extended cavalettis, so she gets used to stretching the stride a bit.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
