Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Hi! We’ve got storms here today so I can’t get the videos to play 🙁 sorry! I will try tonight. Living out in the country is hard because the internet connections are so bad:(
Hi! This is going well too! She didn’t seem to have any trouble with the motion.
>> I notice I did kind of stop to bring her in sometimes. >
Yes – you can fade out the stopping or helping with arm movement – I think one thing that will help you add more motion without stopping is if you have your serp arm back already, before you start to move around the jump – rather than getting to where you want to be then trying to get the serp arm back. yes, starting with the arm back will feel SUPER weird haha but then all you need to do is walk and release, she will already see the arm and upper body position. And also if your arm is already in position, you won’t have to pull it back as you cue the serp – that is more of a threadle move.
This game is also good stay practice – you can walk all the way around the jump with your arm back, but DON’T release – instead, go back to her and deliver a pizza reward 🙂
Great job!!! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! Really good session here, introducing the verbal.
You had all the elements in there:
Good stay rewards mixed in
Your check verbal was very clear
You added more difficult angles
And lots of good tugging in between reps! She is still a little obsessed with the MM but that is normal hahah – It is a magical cookie dispenser 🙂
There were only 2 reps of oopsies (1:32 and 3:23) where she started to come to the threadle side of the jump but then ended up going around the jump to the MM – it looked like you were a little too close there and when she got to you, you turned your shoulder a bit forward – so she went back around. But all the other reps where great, so remember to give her a little more room and not turn your shoulders forward.Speaking of shoulders – a question: which is your preferred threadle arm: do you use the dog side arm like here, or the opposite arm? (I use both, depending on the situation) – so you can add the opposite arm now if you use it. And for the dog-side arm, you can add in swinging it back (a lot of folks do that with the dog-side arm) as long as you keep it swung back til she has the jump.
You can also add in motion, slowly walking through the threadles. You started to mix in serps and threadles at the end, and that is great! She was surprised by the first one, but then remembered 🙂 You can totally go back and forth with serps and threadles in the same session, and your position and verbal will help her see the difference.
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
>>That’s also a good point about Chapter not getting upset with the late info-
We need to help teach them to look for obstacles and keep finding lines, for those moments when we are imperfect 🙂 Because these dogs will see a LOT of imperfect and handler errors in their careers haha! So if we teach them different default behaviors (like finding lines, and also that handler errors are followed by rewards) then they will be much happier to put up with our errors 🙂
>> We normally train at night because there are less distractions so I was happy with his focus during the daytime.
I think he did a great job here in broad daylight! Yay!!!
Looking at the video:
In general, the sends are going well. The first 3 were a good combination of patience and leaving and connection 🙂 He committed nicely! On the last one, I think you were leaving for the next line one step earlier than on the other reps, he was not quite convinced to go to the pinwheel jump so he pulled off. That was not incorrect handling; it juts shows us where he is in his understanding. So you can build even more send understanding by moving the middle jump in a few feet closer and still trying to leave earlier, then throwing the reward for the send (as you keep moving, always keep moving :))>>Are those turns wide because I’m late or do I need to look back to get connection more?
I think this is more of a dog training moment than a handling moment. Yes, we handlers can always connect more but as you are running for the blind cross, you do have to disconnect at some point 🙂 What he was doing was drifting out wide and waiting to see the finished blind cross before committing to come in for the jump before the tunnel.
At :07 the toy throw brought him in, at :22 you finished the blind nice and early so he came in. At :36, he was already outside the wing of the jump before you finished the blind, so he bypassed it. It is a combination of young dog commitment understanding and border collie flanking 🙂 Also, in terms of handling – you don’t need to run towards the landing spot of the jump to get on the line for the BC, you can be running directly towards the tunnel entry you want and get on the line further up/closer to the tunnel. By trying to get closer to the landing spot (between the uprights of the jump, it pressures the line out so he goes wider.But the main thing is that he was not driving towards that jump to begin with, so that is what I suggest you focus on. Don’t worry about the blind cross, those look good! You do them really well, he reads them really well. But they rely on commitment – so just send to the pinwheel jump and leave laterally, as if you are running towards the BC… and with some connection and call his name. Don’t do the blind – just run up the line. When he chooses to come in and take the jump – then throw the reward 🙂 If he can’t do it when you run, dial back your speed as much as needed (walk or jog) so he can find the line. It is a really common young dog error when we add running, so I am confident he will figure it out really quickly. And then you won’t have to worry as much about timing, because he is committing to the jump anyway 🙂
Great job here! Let me know if that makes sense!
Tracy
Hi! He was a good boy figuring out to stay on the wobble board in the face of the hot dog lure temptation 🙂 I think doing it with a 2o2o position will benefit you more in the long run (that is his teeter end position, right?) so you can see him resisting the temptation. I don’t think we will see as much of a weight shift back when presented with the food lure as we would see with tugging, but the concept is the same: stay on the board 🙂
Here is a stretching/weight shift game to play, based on some fitness exercises: my rehab vet has us do a lured/extended hind end iliopsoas/sartorius stretch that looks similar to what he was doing at the end when he was stretching forward off the board while keeping his back feet on. You can maintain that by encouraging him to lick the lure…. then when you ‘cover’ the lure, he can then shift his weight back (he never leaves 2o2o, just stretches). I use a peanut butter jar (well, it is plastic, but you get the idea LOL!) – I let the dog lick lick lick as I draw them into the stretch. Then when I tip the jar up to stop the licking, they lean back into position – so I get the stretch and the weight shift.I know if has nothing to do with teeter training but it is an excellent stretch/conditioning thing! His session here reminded me of that 🙂 so I figured I would pass it along. And the weight shift engages the hamstrings and core, which is also great. These puppers are old enough now that we can dive into more fitness stuff.
>>And yes – I was referring to that shoulder injury inducing 1 jump exercise. I’ll work on tossing the toy sooner at a lower height to see if he gets more comfortable at extending on the mats and I’ll keep his jumps no higher than 8in in class for a while.>>
I think that is also supposed to create better turns, which we don’t really need from him right now – it is more about getting him to explode up a line. I think he is at the age where he is thinking his way through the questions and then when he is comfortable with the answers… BOOM! Full on speed. So for now we keep the speed lines easy and fun 🙂 Some dogs flip that switch at around 18 months, some dogs 2 years old, etc. My Voodoo flipped the switch at around 2.5 years old – went from medium speed and thoughtful to “GET OUTTA THE WAY LADY I GOT THIS NOW WE GO FAST” haha! Contraband is 16 months old and not close to the switch flipping yet (which is fine, I am not ready for more speed LOL!) I think Kaladin is very similar to Voodoo *except* he uses his body soooo much better than Voodoo does/did.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Looking at both of the threadle videos, she is doing really well! I think she is really getting the concept of in-then-out, and that is the most important part. Yay!!!
She is definitely ready for you to add the threadle verbal here, so use it instead of the release word. And if that goes well (I am sure it will!) then you can add in more angles. She did well with the angles you presented here (especially on the 2nd video) but you can add in slightly harder ones too 🙂
I think the hardest part for her was when you wanted her to line and and sit 🙂 All of the reward was coming from the MM, so you can help her line up with a cookie for sitting (Pizza!) and that will help. She wanted to move from the stay when you put the target hand in position, so you can toss a reward back for those stays too, but that is not important as the rewards for getting her into the sit. She did a great job when you tossed the cookie away rather than asked her to sit, so you can totally keep mixing that in.The only other detail is that, like with the serpentines, you can fade out the target in your hand and you can point your feet to the MM more. That feels super weird standing still, but I think it will be much easier when you add motion. If she can be highly success like she was here for another session with some angles added, then definitely add in motion with you moving very slowly 🙂
Have fun! Great job here!!!
TracyHi! It was gorgeous yesterday, with another gorgeous day coming today! YAY!!!! I am excited for no more snow and ice. Sorry about the mud though – ewwwww!!!
He is doing well with his teeter work! I am looking forward to the official start of teeter class!! There were some things that went REALLY well and there are some things here that I am totally going to bug you about LOL!
At the beginning – bang game: he is REALLY showing some excitement and enthusiasm for the bang game and doing a great job with the targeting! This is great!!!! During your sessions, 2 things to remember:
– be ready to reward offered behavior near the board (and if you are not ready, have him wait for you on a mat or hold him or just reward if he catches you by surprise). During the bang game session, he offered a ton of great leaping on and you were not ready, so you did not reward… which is, in effect, a punishment. Since we are not asking for stimulus control yet, not being ready/withholding reinforcement reduces the rate of success. We want him to be somewhere around 95% for these games and he was working the bang game session at about 60% (yes, I counted, I have had a LOT of coffee hahaha). The rate of success is not just based off of behavior we cue, it is based on everything that happens in the session. Stimulus control will happen later on down the road but he offered some great behavior as you were getting ready… reward it (and then hold him or ask for a stay on a bed or something til you are ready). The overall effect on training will be cumulative and progress will be faster 🙂
– turn up the heat on your challenges much more slowly rather than change it on each rep or add a lot of motion. Bearing in mind that he was not totally confident on the teeter, turning up the heat slowly will help protect that high rate of success. We will turn up the heat on challenges away from the teeter first (where we don’t need to protect confidence as much) and then it becomes wicked easy to add to the teeter.I am obsessed with protecting high rates of success 🙂 (as a side note: when training stuff where this is no confidence issue to work through, the high rate of success is important but not critical. When building confidence, high rate of success is the most important thing).
On the back and forth games – he is doing really well especially on the downhill elements! He was also happy to recall back to you across the board. Yay!! I really loved what he was doing when there was minimal tip – running straight through the tip to the end. Nice!
As with the bang game, resist the temptation to turn up the heat too quickly – the change in tip of the board made it a lot harder for him. As there was more tip, he is not weight shifting back into his read when there is a lot of tip downhill – he was forward on his shoulders. That was probably uncomfortable so he compensated by slowing down across the board and was looking for the tip more and more (he weight shifts in the tip, but he is slowing himself down to find it).
So for now, keep the tip very minimal – we will gradually increase it inch by inch. Separately, you can work on the weight shift while a board is moving under him, first by tugging on the wobble board and then using the tug toy as a reward on the bang game (in position). Have you played with the “Pull You Off” game on the wobble board? That also makes for a great weight shift 🙂 The weight shift will start to come more naturally when we add in more target position as well as more tip in very incremental tiny bits, like boiling a frog: he won’t even notice LOL!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! I am sorry to hear that you still have snow 🙁 Spring is coming – we had 60 degree weather here today, and I am sure the warmth is creeping north!
The Out And About class sounds great – this generation of pups will need all they help we can give them when life goes back to normal-ish, hopefully soon!!!!
She is having so much fun with this tunnel game!!! You can totally train your tunnel threadles without ever having to leave the house LOL! I bet you can even sit on the couch and do it. The look on her face was cracking me up: she is VERY SERIOUS about this game and about getting her toys LOL!!! So fun!
>>Keiko does think I’m strange, but I have a feeling she thought that before this exercise anyway.>>
Ha! Yes, I bet all of our pups think this at some point, but thankfully they forgive our strangeness and keep playing with us 🙂
Stay warm! I hope to see you back outside soon!
TracyHi!
This is looking really good! She needed that first rep to remember it (that toy is tempting!) but then she had it. She was pretty darned perfect about driving in to the serpentine even with the toy on the ground. She also did well as you added the angles of her set up, which made for more collection. Your position near the jump was great. Remember to turn your feet to where the reward would be so your feet are not facing her- but that will get easier when you add motion.
She was very strong with the self-control of holding the stay and watching the toy go to the ground and still coming in for the serp! You can use a manners minder for this too, but I love how well she did with the toy. She was very excited but did not mess up. YAY!!
Remember to add in a couple of ‘catch’ and ‘pizza’ reps to reward the stay, especially as you bring the toy to the ground.
You can move on to fading the target out of your hand, and then to adding motion to this. You will see the ideas on how to add motion in the Week 11 games 🙂 She seems ready!Great job! I am looking forward to the threadles!
Tracy
Hi!
Actually, I think there were some pretty strong reps here! And you were asking for a slower, more methodical behavior (the rehab and conditioning vets do NOT want the pups flinging themselves around this with a ton of speed – she was moving slowly and that is perfect).
A couple of ideas to make it even stronger. Question: how does she do with the perch work, without the bar on the ground? If she is not that strong with it yet, you don’t have to add the bar. If she does really well, then you can keep the bar in.>> I supposed I have to go back and have her offer the turning? But she don’t like the pole there.
You can let her offer more, but also reward a lot more frequently. You can reward for the getting on the perch, and for every effort of stepping over the bar. There were some really good reps that did not get rewarded (like at :12 and :32) so then she was not as sure of what you wanted.
You can also release her after each reward, then play then ask her to hop up again. She definitely had trouble getting the reward then going the other direction, so you can separate them a little bit with the play break in between.
>>And then she wasn’t having it.
I think this had to do with the rewards – the idea to reward more will help, plus reward lower – have the cookies down by your knees, so her head stays lower. I think with the cookies up high, she was looking up and then that shifts the weight into her rear: so she was offering sits. If you let her see the cookies down by your knees (I leave my hands there the whole time) then she will lower her head, weight will shift forward – and that should free up her back feet for more movement. So the cookies can stay in front of her by your knees the whole time, then you give her one for moving her back feet. The cookies act as a focal point to help her keep her head down.
Let me know if that makes sense! I think that can help her figure out the whole picture 🙂
Have fun!
TracyGood morning!
>>The idea that serps are hard for young BCs due to the flanking issue makes total sense to me.>>
Yes, serpentines are counterintuitive for a lot of BCs (as well as any breed/individual that can be motion-sensitive or go into chase mode), so that is why we keep the angles open for a bit longer 🙂
The decel work is good for him! He wants to scope running out on a line so driving back to you without a lot of handling help (for now) will be really useful! I think he figured it out really well – my only suggestion is that you give a little more connection to him as he exits the tunnel – he was not entirely sure where to be so had little zig zag line going.
I agree that he was a little wider to his left than to his right – might have been because you did the left side first and then he got the idea? Or might be that he is more of a righty then it comes to tight turns. Either way – he did well on both sides! When you add more motion, try to ‘cheat’ a little so you can get into position sooner and show the decel earlier (for now) but sending him to the tunnel from further away so you can cut across to the wrap jump more quickly. You can totally work that left turn a little more to help him sort out how to turn tight to the left and to build the value for the extra effort. He definitely seemed to like the chasing after the turn, and that will really help him drive to the turn – making ti really fun and exciting like that helps convince the dogs that collection is fun 🙂
FC/BC video:
first rep with the wrap looked really good!!2nd rep (BC) – on these fluffy blinds, you can keep moving through to position rather than decel and send to the middle pinwheel jump. Motion/connection/verbal will support the pinwheel jump – when you deceled into the send, it ended up making you late for the BC because the decel delayed your arrival between the jumps.
The wrap to the ending line looked great!
3rd rep (FC) – same thing about not needing the send on this one (:40) – just keep moving. It becomes more obvious with the FC because of all the rotation. You were not moving in slow motion 🙂 but what happened was you decelerated to send, then had to scramble to get back up to speed and then do the FC… so he didn’t see it in time to make the turn. However, he drove right in as soon as he saw it (good boy!) and the wrap to the ending line was again lovely! Yay! He didn’t get flustered about late info and that is REALLY great.
4th rep (FC) – you drove in more here and did a smaller send – so you position on the FC was much better (1:03) The send did delay the FC rotation so you were a little late, but the better position made a big difference for him already! Nice! And that ending line looked great again – it was really lovely that he could nail it in both directions, every time. Happy dance!
So on the FC, you can work the line after the tunnel more laterally, so you are still in motion and able to get to a good position to start the FC before he decides how he wants to take off for the pinwheel jump. For the blind, you don’t need to be as lateral (because it is quicker to make the cross happen) but definitely keep moving.
>> On a good note -my husband decided he should take out the trash while we were training which is right next to the yard. Chapter found this VERY interesting but I was able to work on keeping his attention and letting him look but reward for engagement back to me. He didn’t leave work which was huge. He was able to focus pretty well despite the distractions. >>
That is HUGE!!!! I mean, I am happy when my hubs takes out the trash even if I am training the dog hahaha but to have Chapter be able to ignore it – fabulous! Feel free to encourage all sorts of distraction things from your husband, it is really helpful! And great job rewarding Chapter for sticking with you 🙂
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
This is looking really good 🙂 The confusion on the first rep might have been the standing on the board before the cue, or the cookies moving around over his head, or both. I mean, COOKIES! HA!
On the 2nd rep and all the others, the cookies were not as much overhead, they were more out in front. His body position looked good here and his drive into position looked really good (simulates what he will do on the teeter bang game). And he didn’t seem to have any trouble when you were standing. Yay!
For your next session, a few ideas to increase challenge: keep going with the leaping on from the side, but try the cookies right over his head (not out in front as much) and see what he says 🙂 And you can also mix in more toy play to see if being wilder/more stimulated is harder for him (probably not, but it will be fun to see!).
The other thing you can do is prop up the back end of the plank a little, so there is more ‘downhill’ angle to the target position – you can prop it onto something stable at first so he ‘sees’ the change for a rep or two, then prop it onto something less stable – I have been propping it onto a fitbone so it moves a little but not a lot, you can also use a pillow (sorry Kevin! Ha!) or a balance disc.Great job!!! He looks great!
Tracy
Good morning!
The handling video looks really strong! There were clear differences between the GO lines, the wrap, the backsides and the RCs. Nice!!! I think everything was very obvious for him so I only have one small detail to consider: on the wraps, try not to pull your shoulders towards the wrap wing (:20) as it delays the rotation and looks like a post turn. He should be able to read it if you face forward towards the exit line of the wing and transition in and out of the wrap. Really good job on the backsides – that is harder with young dogs but he got it easily because you made sure to be very clear with position and connection! Yay! Also, these were pretty strong independent sends too because you really did not have to go past the center of the bar for the FC rep there. And the timing on the FC was super nice, you were FCing as he was hitting the commitment plane before going around the wing – he seemed to have zero questions about any element of that. Also, the 12″ bar did not seem to be an issue and he was really driving! Since this is looking comfy, you can raise the turn bar to 10″ perhaps on the next session?
>>I also discovered that toys are single use 😉 He was happy getting rewarded once with a toy, but then the next rep needed a new toy (unless I use the food filled toys). Bringing out a little stronger toy drive is important to me since that’s really the only reward tool I’ll have when I start doing some NFC/FEO runs to test out skills in competition environments (not anytime soon though!).>>
I agree that adding more toy drive will be really helpful! Does he have absolute favorite toys? Those can stay hidden until you are working a sequence at the club. That might help him want to use it more than once. And you can try a session alternating between 2 toys. I also found that a bit of watching will keep his arousal high and you can get more toy reps that way too: doing one rep for the toy, then he can watch as his sister runs it, then coming back out for another rep with the toy.
On the paw targeting video – this was a cool session and he added a twist to it that I never even thought of: hooking his front feet over it. But I like that, because it gives him even MORE reason to drive to the end of the board!
>>At first I stay close to the target because as I move back, you’ll see he tends to drive a little over the target and drop back.
I think that will go away when it gets added to the end of a board (a plank or wobble board, at first) because there is a more definite edge.
>> I think a little bit of the issue is that the target is a little wobbly (which is why I added the cardboard). I was trying to use something (the wide blue yoga mat) that I could then transfer easily to other surfaces and the teeter. If the wobbliness is a problem, I also have a raised wooden carpeted foot target that’s a little longer than this target, but I could maybe attach the target too for now so he feels more secure hitting that with his paws.>>
Hmmm, he will guide us regarding the wobbliness but my guess is that he is going to want to slide into position (which is good) so you might consider the more secure target.
The concept is well underway, though, so I think the next step is to change your position – off to the side and also standing. I am excited for where this is going, great job with it!!!!
Lovely work here, let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi! His serp skills are looking really good on the flat line here! Yay! This will be fun to open up and put into courses when the snow melts and you can get to bigger places 🙂
Threadles are good to add in – I was thinking the other day that threadle skills had been a little neglected with the youngsters. We don’t need a ton of the threadle skills at the moment but they do need to be brushed up 🙂
He was a good boy and was paying attention, particularly in a set up he has seen before that was all about serps. Try to make your threadle running line the same as your serp running line – straight up the line parallel to the jumps, without stepping sideways or rotating. I think on some of the reps as you opened up your threadle arm, you were stepping sideways and we don’t want him to read that as part of the cue.
He did better on the reps where you gave a turning cue as he approached the jump before the threadle so he was already turning and ready for more. When he had the errors, you didn’t have the turn cues and the threadle cue was after he had landed and locked onto the next jump.
Nice work here!!! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
