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Hi!
>> Sometimes I can get 1 stride at about 13 or 14ft but he doesn’t extend enough so takes off long, overjumps and then scares himself a bit so chips on the next rep.>>
I think he did a one stride on the 1st rep at 14 feet then the other one stride reps were 12 feet. So on the next session, you can start at a bounce distance as a warm up (9 feet?) then go to 12 feet and then rather than move it out a foot at a time in the session, leave it at 12 feet, low bar, with you really running so he doesn’t settle back. In the adjustable grids, he *is* adjusting… but we want to convince him to adjust differently LOL!!!
>>Yesterday I didn’t like how he wa turning his head to me in anticipation of the thrown toy so I used the Pet Tutor today. He stayed focused forward but wasn’t as good with extending his stride.
You can throw the toy sooner, as he is over the previous bar. I think the moving reward was the most stimulating for him.
>>I’m not sure how much is a confidence thing vs conditioning vs feeling like it’s not worth his while to stretch out more.
All of the above? Plus footing, there is not as much grip on mats as there is on grass or dirt so dogs add strides (to avoid slipping).
>>I’ll go back to a thrown toy and before he takes off to ses if that convinces him it is worth using his rear more.
I think the thrown toy will also be stimulating enough that if he does something uncomfortable, he is likely to forget it quickly because the ball is very fun.
And, don’t do many reps at all in case conditioning is a factor (might be, it is the dead of winter and he is a baby dog) – that way fatigue is not a factor.
>>What do you think of the One Jump work that vets them to arc over the jump more? I have always just done the Salo set points and grids but the One Jump stuff is popular at Agile Canines.>>
It depends on which one jump work? The popular one jump thing that I see a lot is a definite no for me because it lands the dogs squarely on their shoulders and is highly repetitive. The dog is expected to push off with all that force and they land really close, while also turning their heads to get rewarded close: with no room for hind end to power out and help with the shoulder impact. The vet surgeons and rehab vets I’ve spoken to absolutely cringe to see that. And since shoulder injuries are currently all over the place, I avoid that exercise. If it is a different one, let me know (or send a video) so we can obsess – oops, I mean *analyze* hahaha
I also thing that young dogs go slower and add strides for a bit and then they realize they can go fast. So just making these grids super fun and NOT challenging at all will really help that – less thinking needed and more wheeeeeeeeeee! He is not doing anything incorrectly, we would just like him to open up on the ground a bit more – but that will come with time and experience, plus I think getting out on grass will make a BIG difference (and being in bigger spaces).
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! He is doing well with the distractions here! And he kept targeting as you got the rewards into him, that is good too!
Wiggling the toy is not a big distraction and having it out ahead when you are next to him is not biggie either. The only moment, as you noted, was when the spider ball above his head caused a bit of a curl then he figured it out and it was not an issue either. Good boy!
>> He does tend to look back at me after the first touch if I am behind him. Not sure if that is an issue or not since he did go in to hitting the target first.
I don’t see it as an issue because when you had the ball out front, he was straight AND very fast into position at the end. If he hits into target position then looks to see where you are without leaving position – fine and dandy 🙂 because when you hang back like that and you are not moving, you will almost never release him forward (unless it is a gamble but most would have you moving along a line).
>>I haven’t been organized enough to get it on video because meal time is a bit chaotic, but he can nose touch my hand near the ground while I hold his dish of raw food above his head.>>
Perfect! The next distraction would be to also have you moving towards the distraction and/or moving and wiggling the distraction.
>>I haven’t done much with it, but so far I haven’t gotten much more tug/pull back on a wobbly surface. I thought the bully stick would work well but he didn’t want to grab it. That may have been because it was later at night and I think he thought it was almost bedtime. I did confirm that he knows he can pull the toy away from me but he doesn’t always really tug hard unless he has just finished a sequence so I think I’ll work a bit more on that without the bosu or wobble board first. >>
Yes, work it on the flat, even if it is just a shaped trick like pulling on a rope attached to something low (because we want his head to stay down and not above his back). It is also a great warm up trick to get him to pull back!
>>I may also see if the rented space has something wobbly I can use so I could do a sequence, get him tugging and transition to the wobbly thing.>>
Yes, if he is more stimulated he might do it. And also you can try the concept of the game with a cookie lure challenge – putting a cookie in front of his nose and slowly drawing it forward, challenging him to maintain being on the board. If he stays on the board – he gets the cookie. If he steps off, no cookie 🙂 That can help get the challenge going as the tugging gets built in as well 🙂
Nice job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Serps look really good in both directions! You can add a turn verbal on the tunnel exit but everything else looks great! The 10″ height did not seem to be am issue at all.
2 ideas for you as you do more serps – in this set up, get a little more ahead and see what he does! The other thing I would do with this is add more distance between the jumps to challenge understanding a bit more (with the jumps still slightly angled).
Then… flatten them all out 🙂 Wheeee!On the jump grids: I think that he is looking balanced here! Hard to see from the angle if he was lifting his butt but I think it looked easy and balanced. Yay!
At this stage, before more height gets added – let’s convince him to do more one-stride reps in the bigger gaps. I think the key to get that going is the thrown reward, not the placed reward. When the reward was placed, he was adding a stride before the last jump. When you were throwing the toy, we were starting to see the one-stride (1:11 and 1:27 – 2 hits of the front feet). So let’s keep going with that, both with you moving and then with you standing still but still throwing the toy. The balance parts of the grid look good, so I think we just need to get him to loosen his tie and feel the wind through his hair, first with you moving and then without you moving. Then the bars can go up pretty easily.>>He was jumping with his butt up in the air a bit in his class on Thursday (at 10in), but I think it might have been him still getting used to the footing (it’s that pelletless “turf” so new to him). >>
That is entirely possible, because that turf definitely has a different texture that might be weird 🙂 Plus it has a different ‘dig’ than mats versus dirt versus grass, so he might just be hashing out how to work on it 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Pizza!! I just love that, it makes me smile EVERY time 🙂 Especially the way you say it – SO FUN!
Great job on this one – your mechanics were really strong (arms, feet, rewards, etc. – there is a LOT in this game LOL!). The body position and the reward are the two most important parts and you were great.
Also, nice job working her on the different angles (no problem, says Miss Ruby!) and you were nice aqnd close to the jump. Her only oopsie was when she almost broke the stay and then the cookie hand was moving around.
You can add more challenge by getting closer to the exit wing like yo were at 2:06, and being less in the middle of the jump. You can also show her motion moving into it, like you would be doing on a serp in the middle of the course: set her up in her sit, you walk around the jump the long way and get into position, then release her. That will be the first step to adding motion through the whole thing.
The next thing to add is the reward on the ground – a toy or a manners minder or an empty food bowl to toss the treat into. That increases challenge because it is SO distracting, but she is ready for you to work up to that.
Great job!!
TracyGood morning!
She is doing really well with the ‘get out’ behavior so that allows us to focus on mechanics that will be useful for other behaviors 🙂
For the get out – you can add even more lateral distance, so she is 4 or 5 feet away and your line is 8 or 9 feet away (approximately – you don’t need to actually measure it :)) That way she has to travel further for the get out and you can also mix in reps where you don’t do the get out and instead just call her to you. The stays went well so I think that this will be easy to add.One other thing to add – start to walk before the release, for two reasons:
1 – it gets you moving up the line and makes it easier to cue the get out and also to ask her to come to you
2 – it makes sure that the release and your motion are *not* paired. If you release and move at the same time, she might start to think that motion is the release. So yes, sometimes do that – but also sometimes mix in walking 3 or 4 steps then releasing while you keep walking. And sometimes don’t move at all and release her – that will emphasize the word as the release and not the motion.I see what you mean about liking the food a lot – she does have a hard time going back to the toy after a treat. You can try a much longer toy to get it swishing around for her to chase after a cookie. And you can also play this with 2 toys: throwing one as the reward, then playing with the other when she brings the first one back to you.
For this game, you can throw sooner before she looks back at you, even if it is just before she gets to the prop – that will help her hit it better too, because she won’t be tracking your cookie hand 🙂
>>What do you do when they miss?>>
Good question! For this game, because the prop gets replaced with a jump, I don’t really care if they don’t hit it as long as they are looking straight and going towards & over it. However, when you move to the running contact mat or box, you will want to maintain a 4 foot hit criteria – I start that a little differently and don’t do the back and forth stuff til the dogs are really good at hitting with all 4. And then, on the RDW box or mat, I call them back if they miss and reset and try again. If they miss twice, I make it easier by moving closer or reducing my motion.
Let me know if that makes sense! Nice work here!
Tracy
Good morning!
>>Winter showed up and life got in the way and progress has slowed.
I feel that same pain! At least winter waited til February to arrive, rather than November 🙂
>>We have been working some basics in the house. She is sending nicely to the minder manor target (red ball thingy) while I go in a different direction. We have been doing some strike a pose basic stuff. I have an L shaped hallway and both ends come into the same room. I can send her on a BIG out! We spent one day at a dog trial and she was awesome with impulse control on her cot (I only had to catch her once). Most importantly, we were near the ring and she wasn’t a crazy BC. It was also her first time in a soft crate and that was successful!>>
This is a great update! Especially the part about being able to get to a trial with her… that is really important with the youngsters and I am very excited to hear she was relaxed! YAY!!!
>>Appears the snow is melting and we’ll be back on track soon! See you soon and I’ll be dusting off my video camera for the March class!>>
Awesome! I am excited for that class, it is a really great group of people and dogs 🙂
Tracy
Hi! The get out cue looked great – she loves her prop and she had no questions about leaving you to go get it. Very nice!!
>>I added the motion too soon I think. This is hard. LOL. Probably need to go back to No motion.>>
You mentioned this with the first video, but I think she did great with the motion; you do not need to go back to no motion 🙂 The hardest part was the transition into the next rep because she LOVES hitting that prop plus she figured out the game so was leaving without you LOL!!! Here is what I suggest for that:
You can reward the get out with a cookie toss like you did. Then, whip out a tug toy, get her tugging, get the sit, set yourself up where you want to be, then do the next rep. She actually had a hard time sitting in front of the prop because the prop has soooooo much value – so getting her to sit and stay in front of the prop is totally worth it. Not just for this game, but for the future when she is all pumped up, on the start line, and the first obstacle is a tunnel. Wheeeee!!She is much better with her stay in front of a jump because we deliberately ‘installed’ the stay before we did a lot of work on how much fun the jump is (a couple of years ago, I decided that puppies should all understand how great stays are before we really let them know how great jumps are LOL!) But we did NOT do that with the prop, so it is a great sit stay challenge for you to play with, perfect for winter training when it is too cold to go anywhere 🙂
Doing the balance reps from a stay will be a lot easier, so add them in after getting the stay going.
Nice work! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
She is a prop maniac (in a good way) so she was happy to go towards it and do the get out behavior. She was leaping it a little on a couple of reps, so you can slow down your motion to make sure she hits it (this is important for future running dog walk training, not for the get out on jumps). But overall, she did great! I didn’t see the balance reps where she goes by it and comes to you, so definitely add those in – she will have an easier time with that when you are further from the prop.
I think you did just fine adding motion right away but the sit was the hard part – try not to move her into the sit, try to cue it and reward it (more on that below). Onwards to the next video!
Tracy
Good morning!
>>Right after reading your post I cobbled together a foot target for the teeter, so we’ve been working on that on that flat. It took him a bit to figure out that he should then do a down, but he’s getting the idea now. >>
Great! So it is more of a down and less of a nose touch? And might be a very distinct “put your front feet HERE”
>> I also went ahead and bought a Teach it for the teeter work, which is arriving next week 🙂 I figure I’ll have to gradually add more drop to keep him driving and downing….so can’t do that with chairs/tables!>>
Yep, the Teach It has been really helpful for adding drops, as big or as little as needed. Pretty cool device! Can’t wait for better weather to get these pups outside!
He did REALLY nicely on the video! You can put some of the ‘easy’ jumps at a taller height, like the jump after the tunnel – that one was generally done in extension so raising it is easy for him.
He had a little wrap versus rear cross confusion going on – see below for more.
At the beginning with 2 jumps:
The straight Go line looks good! The wrap looked GREAT, he is SUCH a nice turning dog! The first backside cue probably needed more extreme connection to his eyes at :16 then stay calm so he can find the bar 🙂 You partied and got excited so he looked up at you. Your cue on the 2nd backside rep was really strong – poor guy hitting his head on the wing! Oops! Probably just driving for the toy.
On the RCs – in general, I think for now it will be more useful to show him a very strong RC diagonal and not focus so much about the tight turn exit, so he can learn to differentiate the 2 (RC versus wrap) as the verbals get more solid. The RC at :31 totally looked like the wrap cue in terms of position, feet, transition – eventually the verbal would help a lot on that but for now, get more on the RC diagonal and don’t decel, just push up the diagonal towards the center of the bar so that the RC position/line of motion looks radically different than the FC wrap position & line of motion.Adding the tunnel to the line:
The go looked good again! He is really nicely balanced with Go and turning.
The RC rep at :49 looked so much more like a RC as he landed from the jump after the tunnel, with your feet turning to face the RC diagonal. For now, keep moving up the diagonal – I don’t think you were wrong, per se, but he is a baby dog and needs things to look very different 🙂On the Backsides – hold onto push cue until he is passing the commitment plane: you let go of the connection and upper body position a little too soon on the first rep, but held it longer at 1:01 and he got it really nicely!
More on the wrap versus RC: at 1:06 and 1:19 we had a little confusion – again, I don’t think the wrap cues were wrong here, but there was a little too much similarity with the RCs being handled so he was turning away when you rotated your feet for the FC. For now, face forward a little longer til his head turns (like at 1:27 but without the shoulder pull – you nailed it at 1:35 and 1:48! And separately, on the RCs, pressure up the RC diagonal more even if he goes a little wider on the exit (it is easy to turn him because he is very responsive so you can ‘over-run’ the RC diagonal for now) For example at 1:40, you started the really nice foot position on the RC diagonal – for now, keep moving up that line so he learns that on the RCs, the momma will move into the box on that pressure line while on the wraps, he momma stays outside the line near the wrap wing. That should help him understand to read the position & line of motion, and not the decel or foot rotation. Let me know if that makes sense!Nice work! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi! Yes, this is working really well! You can use her name as you call her to the attention hand then as you turn her away, add “switch”. She does better when you have your attention hand right next to you leg, so be sure you are keeping it close and drawing her into you and not reaching your hand out towards her. Great job with being patient and smooth on the turn away – you did it just at the right time on each rep!!
This game is also ready for the Advanced level where you add the prop in: the attention hand draws her past it as you move forward then you ‘switch’ her away to turn away and go back to it. She is turning really nicely in both directions so you can definitely add more challenge now.
Nice work!!
TracyHi! Good work here! The thing with the lap turn is that it doesn’t need to go any faster than you did here – I think you were as fast as you needed to be. It probably feels a little weird because she is still learning it and can’t really anticipate the turn yet, but she will get smoother with it so you won’t have to be as perfect LOL! I think the thing that helped her the most was when you stepped straight back and not out to the side at all. And being slow and smooth is perfect because you have to set the turn.
The next step of this game is where you move out of the lap turn and she drives to the prop: so she drives past it (like a threadle) to come to your hand and then after the turn away, she goes to it (then you throw the reward. I think that will be easier feeling because she will have a destination 🙂 She is definitely ready for that game now 🙂
Great job!
TracyHi! Yes, the next course has more on tunnel threadles and also more handling ‘sequence’ type of games 🙂
Tracy
Good morning!
This is going well! I really liked the early reps with the cookie, they were super connected, patient and really showed her the line! And then the toy changed the game 🙂 The toy play turbo-charged her, and that is great – she showed that she understood the skill with the cookies, so bringing out the toy was perfect to challenge her. When you were connected with your dog-side with your dog-side arm back so she could see your shoulders/face: lovely! Really really nice! She barked a bit at 1:29, I think it might have been a combination of excitement and also maybe you were blocking the line to the barrels. But she kept working! It is possible she will bark while she works, and that is fine 🙂
She jumped up on you a little at 1:57. Watch that section in slow motion – you were connected as she came around the barrel, then your turned your shoulder forward which blocked her view of the connection (even though you were looking at her, she couldn’t see it :)) So she “tagged” you on your back a little. That is a behavior I have seen a lot in full-sized Aussies so it makes sense we might see it in MAS too: jumping on the momma’s back when there is a disconnection. Now compare it to 2:13 – your dog-side arm was back so she was able to see the connection and she went to the wing, with no barking and no tagging you 🙂 And then compare it to 2:15, where you rolled your shoulder a bit forward like a 1:57 and she barked at you. So – for now, it seems that having your dog side arm back and down (fingers pointing down to her toes) will help keep the connection open. As she gets more experienced, it won’t be as important but it is pretty normal for puppies to need lots of connection.
Let me know if that makes sense! Great job here!!!
TracyGood morning!
>>I really want our engagement strong before we enter the ring.
This is a great priority – engagement is the most important piece of the puzzle, everything else comes later.
>>Question regarding jumping heights- he’s now 2 years old and will jump 20 for AKC. I rarely have him jump 20 because we’re still learning skills and I don’t want to make it too hard and I also want to preserve the impact on his body. Is there a time or age when you start jumping full height or do you rotate between lower bars and full height depending on the training season- ex. Prepping for a trial versus skill work?>>
I agree about preserving their bodies! There is no need to jump full height until there are trials on the horizon – then you start training it.
Also for the last 6 years, I *always* enter my young dogs at a lower jump height in their early trials because they have SO much to process that I want them to not have to think about bars. So y 20″ jumping dogs enter at 16″, and my 16″ jumping dogs enter at 12″. We can make the jumping effort easy for them while they learn the environment!
Plus, because I don’t really care about titles or moving up with a young dog but I am also a bit competitive LOL – entering them at the lower height where the Q doesn’t matter helps me be a better partner and trainer because I really don’t care about any Qs or titles or wins at the lower height, if that makes sense.
So when trials are on the horizon, I do several things to begin working on jumping skills. I am tinkering with this with my pup who is turning 16 months old soon:
first, assuming I have taught ALL of the young dog fundation body awareness AND my dog is pretty fit, I get a full work up from a rehab veterinarian. This includes a structure analysis, fitness analysis, etc. Some folks also do xrays to make sure growth plates are closed, but I probably won’t with Contraband because he really won’t do high impact stuff til he is 18 months or older, and his growth plates will be closed by then (based on his parents). Growth plates are not the only thing – soft tissue development and balanced fitness are also extremely important! When my rehab vet gives me clearance, I can start harder stuff.
Second, I revisit all of the baby dog jump grids (set point, balance grid, accordion grid, etc) and add height to the set point and to the accordion/striding grids. I might do this once a week.
Third, in sequencing – anything “easy” and well-understood will begin to see some height. For example, Contraband is at least 21″ tall and 15.5 months old. Earlier this week, I took a simple jump – tunnel – jump set up and showed him more height with 2 skills that I think he does well – extension and wrapping. I set him up at the exit of the tunnel, did a lead out, and showed him the extension line to the jump at 14 inchs, then 16 inches, then 18 inches. Then I did it from the tunnel so there was more motion. And then I repeated the process with the wrap (from the stay then through the tunnel). Then did little sequences at 16 and 18 inches. I will probably do something similar in a week or so.With any new skills or skills that I think are not well-learned yet, I start at 8 inches, get the skill looking good, then work up the height.
In terms of timeline, the current plan is to keep working on the training, and maybe enter him in some UKI trials to be able to train in the ring at 16″ over the summer. Maybe “real” trials in the fall at full height? Or not 🙂 The dog will guide me!
On the video:
First rep was good! You can try it without the cross arm if you want? And maybe a shade too far from the jumps but when you are ahead like that, he can still read it. But great connection and running line!Second rep – at :24, he is landing from jump 1 and you are about 6 feet from the line. Then when he landed you used the lft arm (dog side arm) to try to get him to jump 2, which turns your shoulders away from the line so he went to the tunnel.
Compare it to the middle rep at :39 – note the great connection when he landed from 1 and motion along the line, getting a little closer – great!!>> the one middle rep he was determined to go into the tunnel so I’m not sure if I accidentally cued that or if it was a baby dog moment.>>
It was a handling moment, not a baby dog moment 🙂
Great connection out of the tunnel at :43!
He had a little too much giddy up at :47 and missed the jump, so you can slow down the motion and turn your shoulders soonerLast rep – more great connection out of the tunnel at 1:01 and nice shoulder turn to the last jump!
>> I switched over the weekend using different reinforcers- manners minder, toys and food. The first rep here I used the manners minder. >>
I don’t think he was targeting a specific reinforcer, I think he was reading handling. That is actually GREAT because that means he is paying attention and we like that!
yes, some young dog stuff happening – I think that serpentines are really hard for young Border Collies because they have to override their flanking instinct abd drive in directly to handling. Working the one jump to help him come in on the serp jump is something that can be a great warm up to the bigger sequences! And also, being closer to the jump will help him learn the serpentine skills – I like to be generally about an arm’s length away so the dog learns to jump in close.
And also the connection was a huge help to him! On the reps that were successful on the serps, you were super connected – that is KEY! Great job!
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
