Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Hi! How did you end up in terms of snow? We didn’t get any, still green grass here.
On the tunnel work – this is a good skill to revisit! Think of it as 2 elements: when she lands from the jump before the tunnel, you cue the tunnel. And when she is somewhere before the entry, 6 feet or so, you cue the exit of the tunnel. When they looked good here – that is what you were doing. When they went wrong, something was different about those 2 elements. Here are specifics:
She was reading the tunnel breaks well, because you were showing commitment then decel + verbal (a noise) at the right times. One thing about tunnel breaks is that you can also be leaving for the next line so you don’t end up standing still.
You did a FC at :23 – you got the commitment then the decel, so be sure to also let her see that foot rotation for the FC before she goes in (somewhere when she is between 6 and 3 feet from the tunnel entry) The same goes for BC in places that you would use a BC. At :28, you were too early because you started the blind as she was taking off for the jump before the tunnel, so she read it correctly as changes sides at landing to the other side of the tunnel. That also happened with the spin at 1:30 and somewhat with the BC a 1:39 where she did not take the tunnel – you were looking forward when she landed and said over instead of tunnel, so she read it as a Blind cross coming for the jump and not a cue to go into the tunnel.
The crosses/spins/breaks are all about cuing the tunnel exit, so they work better when you let her land, cue tunnel, then start the cross or exit cue. I use the zone that is between 6 and 3 feet from the tunnel entry because the dogs should be committed by then and will also have time to see and process the exit info.
On the spots where you got commitment and she was turning better, your timing of the commit to the tunnel she show the exit info was much clearer (:51 and 1:05 were really good! At 1:15 and 1:23 she was turning, but you were a little far from the line so you can get closer to the line to get and even tighter exit from the tunnel there.
The best one was at the end (1:50) – you committed to the tunnel when she landed and then when she was about 5 feet from the tunnel entry, you showed her the blind – very nice! She was turning when she exited!
Now, I agree that the turn on the exit of this tunnel is better with a FC, but working the timing of a BC here is a good thing too because I am sure you’ll use them in other situations.Oops, almost forgot – you can use your directionals too! The tunnel verbal commits her to it, then as you show the exit handling, you can use your GO or left/right/wrap verbals to help seal the deal.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! This went really well! He was figuring out pretty darned quickly that sitting and remaining in the sit was the road to easy money – or easy cheese 🙂 Nice!! You can add duration more gradually, with some praise at first, then turning sideways to face the direction you will lead out towards. When you do start adding motion of a lead out like a step away, you can click/toss as soon as you start moving away to help pair moving away to mean the reward coming back behind him 🙂 It might take a couple of sessions to add that because he is young, but he is definitely catching on quickly! And every time you add a hard one, do a couple of easy ones after it so the game gets harder very gradually. One thing to be careful of: don’t walk towards him when you want him to offer the sit. That can build in pressuring towards him as an inadvertent sit cue. Instead, you can let him get the treat then come to you and just stand still – then he can restart the action by offering the sit. If he moves out of the sit, don’t move towards him – just stand still til he reminds himself to offer the sit 🙂
Nice work here!!!! Let me know what you think
TracyHi! He did a great job on the retrieving here, generally driving to it and bringing it right back. Nice!!! I think the retrieving is going really well so this is the type of thing to keep playing in various no-pressure situations. We can eventually shape him to put it in your hand for tugging – but first we can think about the tugging fierceness 🙂 I think he really enjoys being sent to the toy to retrieve it, and also he has the history of reinforcement for dropping it to get the treats… so it makes sense that the tugging is not as fierce in this situation at the moment (other reasons too, like teething, add to it). Dropping it has been reinforced by getting the treat (yummy!) or by getting it thrown again (wheeee!) And that is all good! We can isolate tugging fierceness, though – by letting him win the tug o’ war. If he gives a good pull… he win! He gets a victory lap! And on a food toy, if he wins, you can let go and then open it for food. Start by letting him win pretty easily, then you can work up to him having to work harder and harder to pull it out of your hands. That will get more tugging fierceness going 🙂 I thought I had a video of that, but I can’t find it – I will keep looking.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>Started sitting with quieter hands. Transitioned to standing. He was doing really well, so I did push the wing out towards the end. Toy games to start and toy games intermittently during the session. He handled the transitions back and forth pretty well.>>
Yes! The quiet hands were hard at first for him! But he thought his way out of the dilemma LOL and solved the puzzle. Yay! Then he got really good at the back and forth without watching your hands, it was a big moment. Good boy!! And great to hear that the toy play scattered throughout was no problem – it also helps dogs learn to self-modulate their own arousal because tugging is arousing and this wrap game is thoughtful.
>>Your comments about feeding your dogs before training were interesting. I’ve always heard people recommend training a hungry dog, but I am seeing some franticness over the food with WM. With Phyzz, I have the same issue but it is his toy. If I’m training with his toy in my hand, sometimes he only worries about the toy hand and not the rest of what I’m showing him.>>
Yep, there is a lot of conventional wisdom is dog training that is just not supported by science, which is why we don’t have to listen to it LOL!! The thing about franticness for toys – that is one of the reasons why I get toys into the picture really early on – partially to work on arousal, partially so that the early conditioned responses to toys are not as stimulating as later on. I find that if we add toys into the exciting running behaviors, then the conditioned response to the toy being present is high arousal. But when it is mixed in with food and shaping and NOT running… then the conditioned response is more thoughtful and less frantic. All fascinating stuff!!!
Tracy
But I think the same concept applies with respect to their mental focus. So I appreciate your examples from your own dogs.
Hi! Great update!!! It sounds like he did super well in all sorts of new environments.
>>Today, I used toy breaks to start our training with food rewards and used toy breaks to break up the session. He did pretty well. Not as ferocious as he was a week or two ago, but definitely engaged. I will keep at this.>>
Great! I am a big fan of tug breaks 🙂 You can also give him training breaks – for example, my youngsters had a couple of days of training in a row with yesterday being especially busy… so now they will be doing nothing today other than some wrestling or running around and leash walks. That allows their puppy brains to cement what we did on Monday & Tuesday and they always come back stronger in stuff like tugging or body awareness when they have a do of nothingness LOL!! My house is STRANGELY quiet with 3 youngsters in it today – brain cementing at work 🙂
>>Do you want to see video of any of this as we do it, or are my descriptions enough? I know video review takes time so I don’t want to flood you with lots of video that looks the same!>>
For stuff that is going well and does not need to progress, descriptions are good 🙂 If you want to post anything about tugging not being as strong, or anything needing next steps, go for it! Alway happy to see that 🙂
Tracy
Hi! Good work here! Yes, a couple of sessions for just getting on will be great to build the salience. Standing on it will be better for ways we will be using it for backing, so you can click and reward before he offers the sit. And try to stand still so that he is not following your movement at all 🙂 That way he can find the board and you can just lean up against the wall, causally 🙂
T
Hi!
First off, your sends look fabulous on the videos (excellent use of that cooler bag hahaha!) She was a good girl going to the bag both on the forward sending and the sideways and backwards sends. You can totally add the games I posted yesterday. So let’s focus on her using you as the tug toy LOL! I think that she is doing pretty normal herding dog arousal stuff, so he still counts as a good girl haha! And toy definitely contributes to the arousal – toy plus movement = tooth hugs on the momma! We can focus on that, I have 2 ideas for you:
first, your instinct to add cookies back into the picture was great dog training. Cookies are calmer so I suggest you incorporate them: tug – cookie – send- tug- cookie – send. That can help her moderate her arousal and excitement while still incorporating tugging. No worries if she loses a tiny bit of tug drive while you do this, because she has great tug drive and we can always dial it back up.
The other thing I recommend is a stealth self-control game where she learns to offer being a bit chill in the presence of tugging and her own internal arousal. Here is a video of what I mean, let me know if it makes sense:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKrA5J9utfo
I think this can help her keep her head during tugging and help you then be able to reset after each rep. Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
I agree with you (and so do the sports veterinarians that I admire). There is absolutely no reason to teach a baby puppy how to jump. There are about a zillion other things we can do! Coordination, body awareness, etc. There is more to jumping than getting over bars, right? When exactly to start depends on the age/structure/breed/etc of each individual. I *might* start a balance grid or a set point at 8 months of some dogs or later for others. My BorderWhippet puppy is 14 months old and we are now getting into the nitty gritty of jumping and I am glad I waited because he is so much more coordinated and muscled! So at 6.5 months with Robbie… a bit of cavaletti work is fine, I would think, at maybe 2 inches. And ‘pick up sticks’ is a good one. Also, all of the backing up and individual foot placement is good stuff to train – I also learned a back foot isolated cavaletti thing that is great for pre-jumping. In this class we also do some lead change learning as well introduce grids a bit down the road. And I think I will be adding a plyometric game that is also great for pre-jumping!So…. take your time with Robbie, you are on the right track 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
>>I’m bad with my left always. I have really think when I do it with the left hand. But it go better.
I agree, it went better for sure! I thought your mechanics were good on the left side! I scrolled back up to the wraps where she was showing a side preference – she prefers to turn to her left, and that is what she is doing on the blinds that are easy (when you start in your right arm). When you are starting on your left, she is turning to her right – not as easy. No worries, though, she keeps getting stronger with that! My two puppies are lefties as well 🙂 It all evens out 🙂
Hi!
These went well!! You had terrific play and energy 🙂 The ones that worked well – your timing was nice and early. The ones that were not as good – when she was starting on your right, they were a little later but she was doing the side change as soon as she saw it. When she was starting on your left, though – she definitely took an extra moment to read them even when you were earlier. So, when she is starting on your left, you can be slower as you move away, walking, so she can see the blind more clearly. Small dogs lock onto our feet a lot so it is possible she was watching your motion and not ‘seeing’ your upper body. Moving with less speed will help that.
It is definitely too cold for outside training 😁 but if Bonnie has a safe place to take her… definitely!!! The more places to go, the better 🙂 as long as you are not risking any exposure, try to get her to new places.
Great job here!
TracyHi!
He is doing well on his plank work! You can move the turn hand more slowly as you cue the turn on the plank, so he can think about his feet a little more on those tight circles. He seems balanced I both directions! You can also add angles of entry running up the plank using this set up – you can use long jump boards to guide that so he has a visual to line himself up with. I set the long jump boards up alongside as a channel then gradually move them more and ore into the board so they are flush to it and less visible, if that makes sense.
Sends are looking good on the tunnel/wing game! Yay!! You can run in closer to the tunnel so you are right at the exit or even behind it when he exits, which adds challenge. Plus that will keep you in better motion too so you won’t have to take little steps to set up the send. Two things to add to this: verbals (for the tunnel exit and for the wing wraps) and also turning and doing a FC sooner – when he passes you on the send, you can start rotating the next direction to see how early you can do it 🙂 I have more on that coming this weekend!
Have fun, you two look great!
TracyHi!
>>So, I’m thinking his running off is a frustration behavior at my lack of clarity for him?
That might be a small element but I think that the teeter is stimulating and he doesn’t know how to self-modulate (this is pretty common with herding dogs and teeters :)) I mean, we are unclear for our dogs in other things and they don’t react like that LOL! But agility is stimulating and so is the teeter. So it is more of an arousal behavior and then frustration might trigger it. Or, just being on the teeter triggers it. Do you train with food or a toy or both?
>>I also struggle with his attention in handling, which I’ll get to in a later post when I edit the wing it exercise.
Yay! Looking forward to it.
>>In terms of the wobble board, he was much better with that but I did get frantic behaviors when working on holding four feet on for duration. But he was much more engaged with the wobble board.
Food or toys for the wobble board? You can do things like have him get on then do releases then rewards, with gradually extending the duration but always letting him off the board for the release.
>>I didn’t even hold the leash, just the leash being on made him more focused on work. I’m wondering if that’s because we do a lot of nosework and he’s always on leash for that? >>
That is interesting and it is entirely possible that the conditioned response to the leash from nose work is helping him relax in agility. Nosework is stimulating in a different way.
He was a good boy on the lazy game! I think the treat throw was contributing to him missing the middle jump – it was near it, you were moving away so when he looked up from eating, it wasn’t really on his line. You can toss the treat further away so it puts him more on the line to the middle jump. He was nice and relaxed here, using treats. So…. let’s game plan on how to teach him to handle his own arousal. What does think of tugging or balls or frisbees? We can work these games in arousal to teach him how to handle it. That way you you can get him running courses even when he is very stimulated as well as work him through any stress behaviors 🙂 If he likes tugging, I would tug tug tug then do the lazy game for a couple of treats then tug tug tug and so on. Let me know if that makes sense!
TracyHi! Good job on these!!
>> I really noticed that I was not using verbals consistently. It’s like I would use them the first direction and then I was like, “well how do I get him to take the jump this time?” and was using go or hup. Unbelievable. Human training.>>
I feel that! This generation of pups has more verbals than ever, so I find myself actively planning more – and then sometimes screwing it up 🙂 I am now reminding myself to plan the verbals before every single run in the hopes of screwing up less 🙂
>>When I rewatched these I noticed how many times I laughed when things went “wrong”. So, that was nice to see myself keep it light and not get frustrated. He’s such a good baby – that was a lot to work through in just one morning.>>
Yes! And I think he did really well – any errors were good to chuckle at because it was indeed grown up stuff 🙂
1st video:
>>Watching the video I realize I probably should have put that pinwheel jump much further out because I didn’t have a lot of space to cue the wrap with a decel. As I mentioned yesterday, he again seems more confident on my right wrapping left than on my left wrapping to the right (some of that is clearly due to my handling!).>>The spacing was fine here – it makes us work harder on timing LOL! You can decelerate sooner on the 1st 2 reps – I think you were starting it as you arrived at the wrap jump, which made it a little late – you can start to decelerate as he is landing no matter where you are. On your left at :34 and the rep after it, you were earlier and he did a good job on the turn!
On other thing I noticed as you got into these reps – you were decelerating into the pinwheel jump (you can see your long strides go to little strides), then either staying in decel or accelerating again then deceling, which made it harder. You can blast past the pinwheel jump and not decelerate til he is landing. An example of this is at 1:18 – you decelerated into the pinwheel jump, then accelerated – then hit the brakes without decelerating, so he did not take the jump. That was on your left but I don’t think it was a side preference issue. On the next rep you were later to compensate and get commitment, so he was wider – but also here I don’t think it was a side preference issue – looking back at the earlier reps where you blasted past the pinwheel jump and then did the transition, he had great turns on both sides 🙂2nd video:
Breaking out the BCs at the beginning – on the first ones at the very beginning, you just needed more patience after the release: you blinded before he moved like a forced blind so he didn’t take the jump. You can release on your right then go to the left after he moves – you can start him further back to make it easier. One thing to think about it the line of the blind cross and always be moving towards the tunnel entry you want and not in between the uprights of the jump: By leading out and releasing on the new side, you were nicely connected by your line was actually towards the end of the tunnel you didn’t want 🙂 When you did it on your right, you had a better position so he had a better line. On all of the,
he read the connection nicely and never looked off course. Yay!Sends
First run – you needed to go one step deeper past the jump to get the send, and keep moving til he landed before the send. This was on your left, but it was not a side issue, it was a timing issue. You were much better on 2nd rep on the send! Also good on your right side and on all the sends after it 🙂First rep with blind: You were feeling the pressure of the speed LOL! You were actually too early on the blind, it was finished before he landed from the pinwheel jump and then you tried to move to the tunnel, so it read as a forced blind cue.
2nd rep – Really good timing letting him land to see the BC jump then starting it. Try not to , move between the uprights of the BC jump because it sets the line to the wrong end of the tunnel then you have to push him back – stay parallel to his line then turn directly to the tunnel entry you will be cuing.
On the rep at 1:46 – better timing and better line here! Nice!!!! Compare that to 2:01 where you ended up doing the blind but almost in the wrong end of the tunnel LOL! My rule of thumb on this type of sequence is to not allow myself to go past the wing of the jump towards the bar; stay outside of the wings. 2:13 was better for sure!!
Last video:
Good low arm connections throughout here, you are really doing a great job with that!!!
First run – you can start the blind maybe one step sooner but it was good! Also a really good send on the wrap after it but then he saw the connection break and thought it was a blind, good boy.
The 2nd run had better blind timing and better connection after the wrap – NICE! Same with the 3rd run, but I think I liked the timing of the BC on the 2nd run better.
The timing of the blind on the 4th run at 1:00 was my favorite! Perfect! You were really trusting him there and he was great! And, a good wrap but then you lost a bit of connection. The rep at 2:00 was also good – you almost lost connection but then got it back. That is a really hard line to keep connection on because we all want to get outta there but then we might accidentally turn our back on the dog 🙂 You were really able to see him committing and then marking it with a yes, that was great.
About those random RCs when starting on 5: it might just have been him guessing to turn towards the course and not away from it? I have that happen with Voodoo sometimes so I either start further back or I start jump earlier. I didn’t see it happen when you were doing the full sequence, or did I miss it? I thought your sends there were REALLY nice!!Great job on these! And yes, it was really cool to see you laughing and rewarding, whether things went right or wrong 🙂 You were both working so hard and working as a team! So fun to see him growing up and doing amazing things 🙂
TracyHi!
>>We are in Storm Warning mode here. 12 – 16″ of the white stuff possible with winds to 45 mph. It looks like you may be getting a piece of this down Virginia way, too. So, after tomorrow am, I’m not sure when Keiko and I will be able to access equipment and bare ground. Time for those microspikes!>>
Oh no!!! I do not miss the big snowfalls from when I lived in Central NY. We were supposed to get 5-7″ here in SW Virginia, but so far all we have is freezing rain and ice. I need to get some of those microspikes too!!!!
On the video – the timing of the blind had to be pretty spot on in order to get the nice turn on the jump after it, and I think you are getting really comfortable with the timing! Plus she is really committing so nicely to the lines!! All reps had great timing – the reps where she was on your left were awesome, you were really trusting and hustling to get where you needed to be, so the timing of the blinds on those were great! Those last 2 were my favorite reps. The 2nd rep on the video was my least favorite, it was the latest in timing, but it was still good!
Now about the wrap after the BC – the trick is to be able to get through the BC early enough so that you can then show a transition into deceleration then rotate. Now, some dogs do best with a deceleration, send and go – but that requires the handler to turn to the outside which delays getting back up the line. I think for all the small dogs, that is the best way. For the larger striding dogs, I would suggest a spin which is what you did at :49 – decel when she lands from the BC jump then rotate into the FC and run away, doing the BC as she is taking the jump. It is a tricky move because if you don’t decel while facing the wing or you push in too soon, the dogs read it as a rear cross. But in general, the spin will work best for the big dogs wen they are jumping full height 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>A question: I am able to send her and work her from a distance on some of these exercises. Should I also vary that and run with her so we have both things going? >>
yes, you can show all the things 🙂 You can do some with sending, or run deeper into the tunnel or closer to the pinwheel jump so that you end up close to the jumps or even behind her. On these wraps, I think that moving in closer to the lines will help because you will be able to show more of a transition on the wraps. With the sends, there is no shift from acceleration to deceleration – that made it harder for you to rotate on time and she also was not expecting the rotation. (Side note – when we show a deceleration, it is less important to rotate on time LOL!). So you can be accelerating til she lands from the pinwheel jump, then decelerate and rotate so you are fully rotated before she takes off. You were a little late at :07 and :24 (you were rotating over the bar) so she was wide, turning on landing. With the transition, you can get the collection going when you decelerate so the timing won’t be as critical. I do love her speed on this, she was FLYING which is great!!!
Tracy
