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Holy cow, you are rocking this!!! Look at the distance and how well she is going!!!! It sounds like you are already adding your wrap verbals (in the middle of the video) and that is great. I am loving her commitment and also look at how well she is using her body around the barrels: low, tight and fast! Your timing of leaving on the FC here was really good. It was challenging for her, so she probably needs one more sessions just like this before you make it harder.
When that goes well, you can add your motion – running towards the barrel more, making the transition to deceleration and rotation – then FC and run to the next one. The added motion will add more challenge!
Great job here!
TracyThis is great, Juliet! Her commitment looks terrific and my favorite part is that she is *running* to the barrel and not trotting. That speaks to how much value you’ve put on the game. Yay!!! Great job leaving earlier and earlier – they were all really good but the reps at :10, :18 and the very last rep amazing!! yes, you can play seeing if you can leave earlier, but that will be easier when we add to the rocking horse games. Great job here!!
Tracy
You are very welcome, but I am having tech trouble and can’t seem to get your video to come up LOL!! Do you have a YouTube link yo can copy and paste? Sorry to be such a pain!
TracyHi! I think we all get into using the same reactions when the pup is not correct – human nature. I catch myself when I watch the videos LOL!!! So I try to redirect myself into rewarding something else 🙂
T
Hi! This is going well – a couple of ideas for you:
On the ‘regular’ serp lines, keep your dog-side arm further back and open your chest up to face her more (your feet were perfect, running forward!) you were looking a little ahead and that made things a little bit wider.On the convergence: On your first convergence rep, you were just a little late- you were running the ‘regular’ line til she landed and then you tried to push in, but she had already made a line decision. On the next rep, you were showing the convergence before she took off, and it worked beautifully! At :22, coming in fromthe backside, you were late showing convergence (you tried to do it after she landed) so she was correct to get the front side of the next jump. But on the next rep, you started showing the convergence as she taking off, and it worked much better! She ticked the bar here – which means it was a tiny bit late, so try to show the convergence as she is rounding the wing to get to the backside. She pulled the bat at :42 (last rep) because the convergence happened while she was in the air (a little late). You did a nice job with the convergence at :38 – so nice, in fact, that you ended up doing a rear cross on the takeoff side of the 2nd jump (a forced rear) and that is fine! So keep trying to be super early on your convergence so she has time to adjust to the tighter turn to the backside.
To get the blind, converge like you did, but turn your head to the other side so you are doing the blind cross while you are in the gap between the 2 jumps.
Nice job! Let me know if this makes sense 🙂 Stay cool!
TracyHi!
>> You mentioned that I should keep the same spacing. Do you mean put the jumps in a straight line? Or should there be spacing between them?
Keep them in a straight line, still nice and tight 🙂
>>I did the Skill sets today and had some unusual issues at the start. She was threadling between the jumps instead of doing the straight ahead jump on the parallel path serpentine. When I looked at the video, I realized that she’s in that Zig Zag pattern and I think that’s why she was doing that. I skipped the convergence between the jumps because during this session. >>
That is actually pretty common, zig zag grid or not – the dogs start offering the more complex move (like threadles or backside pushes) when all we want are the simple front sides LOL! I don’t know exactly why they do it, other than reinforcement value we put into threadles versus front sides plus sometimes the more complex behaviors are more self-reinforcing? And I totally see how it would look like the zig zag grid without the middle jump – especially because that grid has been on her mind lately 🙂 I suggest lots of balance reps – lots of front sides and only the rare threadles and backsides 🙂 You can also angle the jumps a little so the front side is more obvious and the backside is too difficult to be worthwhile (not sure if she will agree with that, however LOL!)
I think this session went well! You had to spend a few moments reminding her of the joys of the easy stuff (regular serps lol) but then it was all lovely! And the zig zag grids are transferring: her jumping on these difficult slices was MUCH more organized!!!!! I know there was not a TON of speed yet but there was a more consistently clear organization and jumping effort. YES! This was happening on both the regular serps and also the backside send serps, so I am doing a little happy dance here. On the convergence to the blind – you can push in even sooner so your blind is finished before she takes off. That way you will be off the line and reconnected sooner – you were getting off the line nicely by the end, but the reconnection can come sooner (she was reading it nicely, though, because she recognizes the head turn as the antecedent to the rest of the blind cross info). When you do add in the convergence to backside – do just one rep then do a bunch of regular non-convergence lines LOL!!!! That way she doesn’t self-diverge LOL!! I have found with Voodoo that when he was just a little younger than he is now, if I did 3 threadles or convergence lines in a row, that it was nearly impossible to get him back on a 180 or regular line. When he filmed the demo for this, he did NOT make any mistakes – and, at 7 years old, that is a first for an entire session like that 🙂 I don’t know if Pose will get herself into a convergence loop like that, but we can help her avoid it by just randomly doing one rep and then doing the other lines 🙂
Nice work here! Let me know if that makes sense!
Tracyhi! Nice work on these skills sets!
Video 1 – lots of really nice stuff! You can be a little closer to the jumps on the regular serpentine (about an arm’s length or less). Your convergence when he was on your right was lovely – note how at :19 you were already showing convergence before the release, so he was perfect! Compare that to :43 (when he ended up behind you) and :55 when he got it but he had some verbal feedback lol – on those reps, you were still moving on the parallel path regular serp line after he landed, the convergence info was late. You were super connected on the last rep which helped get it, but you should be moving in sooner, more like you did at :19.
Videos 2 – all of the backside series looked GREAT! Try to think of the convergence to the 2nd backside a little differently in terms of when to show it to him: as he is rounding the backside entry wing of jump 1, you should already be pointing your feet into the gap for the next backside. You were perfect with that on rep 2, when you did the blind to the front of 2. On the other reps where you pushed to the backside, you did a step to the backside after he landed – so he landed then turned, creating a little zig zag. If you can start stepping into the gap (or facing it/moving towards it) before he takes off for jump 1, you will see him adjust the line before takeoff and have a much tighter turn into the backside – without you having to take a big step to get it.
Video 3: He did well on the threadles! Having to ignore the MM is hard indeed, but he did it 🙂 I think he was not coming in fast when you were looking right at him. When you shifted the connection down to your hand when you said the verbal (last 2 reps), he was nice and fast coming in! So maybe direct eye contact on the threadles is tooooo much for now and you can look at your hand. Good job adding motion – I would definitely keep adding more and more motion, working up to a run! You can also add a wing or a low jump before it (with not much motion, go slooooowly :)) and see if he can figure it out in sequence 🙂
Nice work here!!!
Tracy
Hi! This looks really good, with whichever arm you use 🙂 I train both, so feel free to sometimes use the outside arm, sometimes the dog side arm – the situation will dictate which one you are more comfortable using on course. At this stage, I suggest starting with the easy angles and adding in a little bit of motion (sloooooow walking :)) You will be walking… then went you get to the entry wing, give the threadle cue and keep walking v-e-r-y-s-l-o-w-l-y 🙂 If that goes well, you can get faster and faster, gradually 🙂 Keep reminding yourself to NOT stop, also keep moving even if it is really slow 🙂 After 2 successful sessions of that… add the 2nd wing back.
And yes, you can totally mix in serp training within these sessions – you will change your position and your verbal so she knows the difference.
Nice job! Let me know now if the ideas make sense 🙂
TracyHi! I was wondering when someone was going to ask this LOL!!!
>> Overall, are you meaning that you should train each arm for each use and then use the preferable one for the situation? The opposite arm would be used when you need more extreme connection for a difficult threadle and the open side arm would be used with more casual connection or an easier threadle for the dog to perform. Please give me your thoughts of this subject.>>
I’ll preface my answer by saying that there is no wrong answer here, because threadles are trained skills and the handling is icing on the cake 🙂
yes – I train both. The main part of the training is the verbal cue, but I show the dog that the threadle can be either arm (and I also show the dog that I might do double blinds in a threadle too). The threadle verbal names the dog’s behavior (come in – go out) and not my behavior (handling choice).
How you choose is personal depending on the dog. I generally use the dog-side arm Threadle when I am ahead of the dog (in a good position) and the threadle is ‘normal’ and not terribly complicated. When I am behind (out of position) or it is a really hard threadle, I use the outside arm. The outside arm is easier for the dog to see, which helps! But it is harder to run with the outside arm up, so the dog side arm is great because it allows us to run better.
So yes, the difficulty of the threadle influences my choice about which arm to use, and my position relative to the dog & the threadle also influences the decision: It is an ‘easy’ threadle but I am behind, I will use my opposite arm.
Let me know if that makes sense!
TracyYay, it worked! Very nice session here! I agree, she was not *quite* ready for the toy on the ground but I do admire her happy moment when she bounded towards it LOL! She is so fun 🙂
The session with the MM went really well. Your position can be one step more towards the wing (to your left) and then it will be perfect (at 1:00 you were blocking her line to the correct side so she ended up on the other side, but the rest were really strong). As you play with this, you can start clicking the MM even sooner – you can anticipate the instant she is going to hit your hand and click it, so she goes right back out. Then you can click it just before she hits your hand: the goal is that she comes towards your hand to the correct side of the jump then turns herself back out 🙂 When you see her doing that, we will fade out the hand target and add motion. Nice work here, I think she is picking this up really nicely!!!!Tracy
Hi! I love that you even had your barrels with you to whip out for this game LOL! You are doing really well so I bet a lot of your feedback is “nice job!” – but being able to work in that environment is HUGE!! And I am glad you came to class, he rocked it! Hopefully you both slept well afterwards 🙂
Piggie to hand looks great!!! And so adorably funny LOL!! You were actually cuter than he was with your songs lol! Keep working on this, change up to different toys – and it reminds me of another game we can play to build more dead toy drive: you can shape him to progressively pull harder and harder to get it out of your hand in order to get the reward. Basically, he grabs the toy and if he pulls it out of your hand, he wins (can win a treat or a better toy). At first you make it easy for him to do that, then make it harder and harder til he is legit tugging like a fiend and you are doing nothing except holding the other end of the toy 🙂 It takes several sessions, but it really helps. I totally have video of this… somewhere. I can’t remember which dog is in the video (Nacho or HSM) so it will take me a while to find it 🙂 I will post it when I find it! Let me know if it makes sense 🙂
T
Hi! This is a really interesting video! I think there are 3 things to consider on the big barrel (2 are related :)) and then we can sort it out!
First thing is a value issue -the reward placement is from your hand, so value is on your hand – so you can take the big barrel and shape it like we did with the PNU and the smaller things, with rewards tossed out to the other side as he is going around it. A couple of sessions with all of the value placed out on the other side of the big barrel will really help!Second thing, and this is related, I think – he easily goes around the squished up tunnel and not the big barrel. In fact, his commitment to these games on the squished up tunnel is terrific! The main difference is that he can see you around the tunnel and not with the barrel – so perhaps he doesn’t like it when he can’t see you? That is related to value: you are valuable 🙂 Yay! So yes to the shaping for value like I suggested above, but you can also use something where he can see you more, like a big cone or small pop up crate or something 🙂
Third – I don’t think he likes when you give him little pushes when he gets a little frozen, he always seems to back off after those. He might go to the barrel sometimes after it, but he might also be associating the big barrel with the pushes so he doesn’t really love it. So, you can urge him on with a little ready steady game or try moving into it more, but try not to touch him as part of the game here. You can also put the target bowls in as part of the shaping game, that can help just start the game on the big barrel!I am betting he will be just fine on turn and burn as well as rocking horses on other objects as you bring the big barrel up to full value. Feel free to try it on some of the other objects and see how it goes!
Let me know if the ideas makes sense 🙂
TracyHi! Thank you, Min, for helping with distraction 🙂 This is also looking good! I think this will feel a little more comfy when you are outdoors and there are no walls to stop you, you might have been slowing down because there was a wall there LOL!
My only suggestion is to catch his eye a little sooner with your opposite arm/magic cookie hand so you can have him ready for the turn cue sooner. At a walk, he was fine with the timing, so I am thinking ahead to when he will see you running through these – if you show him the magic cookie hand on these tandems sooner, he will be able to prepare (by slowing down :)) for the turn cue sooner too. You can play with that by add more speed to your motion!Nice job!
TracyHi!
>>Question on your comment for the get out. You said:
Remember to start him behind you (stay or cookie toss) so you can move up the line and give the cookie while he is still behind you.
Give cookie while he is behind me? I thought he goes ahead and out to the prop?>>It is more of a parallel path behavior when we add motion, rather than sending him out ahead (that was just to get things rolling). So if you toss a cookie back, you can start moving and he will be moving up the parallel line a little behind you – you can then show either the get out or the come to momma cue (always easier when you are a little ahead). Let me know if that makes sense.
>>And when do I name this one?
When you have the behavior with the physical cue – and it appears you do 🙂 so go ahead and add the name. 🙂
T
Hi there!
>>What should I do when Lennan successfully moves in the direction I want when working with the prop but misses actually touching it? >>
We find *something* to reward 🙂 Because the prop is going to be faded and doesn’t need to be used in competition, we can reward approximations rather than perfection (as opposed to, say, weave poles which need to be done a certain way so we need to reward more specifically). the goal with the prop is to get the concept across with a high rate of success, then transfer to a jump. In the session: If there was a clear error, you can reward stays, sits, tricks, etc – to keep the rate of success high overall. But, also, a lot of the parallel path behavior on the prop (like parallel path, get outs, etc) is meant to emulate extension on a jump, so the pup’s approach and interaction with the prop looks different than hitting it directly. With that in mind, and also bearing in mind that we are training concepts that will be transferred to a jump or tunnel – you can reinforce correct response to the cue (such as the lead change away on the get out cue) or general interaction with the prop even if it is not a perfect paw smack. So, for example, on the rear cross – if he goes over the prop and turns – reinforce! If he turns on the flat without any effort to interact with the prop – don’t reinforce. (More on rear crosses below).
2 other things to consider:
– If you get one failure, you can ask the same question but if you get two failures… make it easier (or assess if you should be reinforcing the behavior he is offering).
– don’t use a marker if he is wrong (avoid saying the same thing, like ‘nice try’) because those can end up being punishment markers (associated with negative punishment). Instead, all him back and either re-send immediately or cue/reinforce something else.>> He wants to go faster now which I think makes it more difficult for him to actually hit the thing. Is my prop too small?
Yes, for the faster moving behaviors, I think it is so you are getting REALLY nice general interaction but not very specific paw hits. So, you can reward the general interactions (visualize them as him going over the bar) and/or you can put the prop on a bigger mat and reward anything that happens on the mat (any behavior on or near the prop). We will be off the prop soon enough and onto jumps, so perfect paw hits don’t matter right now 🙂 You can also wad the fixes – when he strides over the prop than says “oops, let me smack it!” that is clever and can be rewarded 🙂 It will not have any negative fallout when we transfer to jumps 🙂
I think his get outs look really good, you can reinforce the choice to move away and then toss the reward out towards the prop (think of it as a jump). He did well on the balance reps too!!! He was a little wide, drifting towards the prop on the balance reps, but that is normal because that prop has so much value 🙂
Rear crosses are also looking good – try to start cutting in behind him sooner. I think that you will need to start further back, so you have time to show the rear cross before he makes a decision. You were a little late on some of them, so either he didn’t get the turn til after the prop, or he was on his left lead hitting the prop and then turned after that. Good boy! Try to aim for changing sides while he is still 6 feet or so from the prop, so he can adjust his leads and then finish approaching the prop. His understanding of the RC is looking strong!
I am happy with how the turns on the flat are going – at this point, start him a little further away so you can set up your turn with more time – when he was close, you didn’t have a lot of time to set it up LOL! He was driving into the toy hand really nicely! Towards the end he wasn’t as strong as the beginning of the session, it was hard to tell why but it is possible that you were drawing hm back and turning him away in one motion, rather than 2 distinct motions like you did in the beginning of the session. He was going faster so you were going faster which made things harder to keep distinct. So, even when he is going fast, this handling move should be done slowly 🙂Nice work here!! Let me know if the ideas about the prop make sense 🙂
Tracy
