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Interesting! Glad you posted about it!
I think we can add in some coping skills for her to help with the outside stuff – it all makes sense and it is all pretty normal.
What have you done so far to help her? It seems it is helping because the behavior is reduced.
First, how far away do you think she was when she started noticing the distractions outside? That is about where I would offer up a snuffle mat or treats in the grass or some type of sniffing game. And if you feel she is unable to fully attend to the sniffing, move her further away so she can give herself completely over to sniffing.
And, lots of long sniffy walks will help too!
The behavior being more pronounced as it gets darker makes sense too… harder to discern things in the dark, plus there is an element of depletion/fatigue that comes into play so there is less self-control. So the coping skills can be more important, and further away – always be prepared for that random person to appear in the dark at a hotel or something by either scattering treats around or presenting a stuffed Kong, while moving her away.
For the proximity – does she like being touched or petted in a certain way? For example, when my Hot Sauce was hesitant as a pup, she would either climb in my lap or asked to be picked up for a full body hug! And that morphed into standing on her back legs with her front legs wrapped about my arm while I scratched her chest. I decided easily on to give her the comfort she was asking for – what a difference it made!One last thought – how are your other dogs in these situations? Another decision I made early on was to let my 2 most stable dogs be the models for behavior for her, and to separate her from any of my others who might model behavior I didn’t want. So my 2 younger males (Voodoo and Nacho) are really comfy in almost any environment, so she spent a lot of time on leash walks with them! My oldest female can be sharp and reactive to other dogs on walks, so HS never went on walks with her LOL! Same thing with noises: Export is incredibly sensitive to noise, Matrix is sensitive to thunder… so HS never hung out with them during those times. She only hung out with Voodoo and Nacho, who didn’t give a hoot. And i would introduce her to other dogs who could also model confident behavior. Just food for thought!
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi there! I am super glad you posted this!
In my mind’s eye, when you said he was freezing, I was picturing the Border Collie glazed-over stalking frozen-ness from over-arousal. He does NOT seem to be doing that! In fact, he seems to be in a nice level of arousal and not glazed over. I think he is just not sure what you want and is waiting for a cue/help and/or a toy throw. Good boy!
So, a few ideas for ya!
I think the advice to keep moving and not let him freeze was more if he was in that glazed-over state (scientific term haha) but in this case, since he is not glazed, you don’t need to keep moving. In fact, I think the little bit of motion is actually causing him to possibly predict that he should wait there because you might be about to deliver a cue or throw the toy. So, no need to keep moving like that because it isn’ as helpful as it can be.
However, we can indeed help him! He was trying to figure out what you wanted and he did offer up some attempts at the “just gimme the darned toy” behavior hahaha It is also possible that he thinks that the presence of food is the cue to offer behavior and the presence of the toy is a cue to tug or wait for a throw. This can come from repetitions and context – dogs are brilliant at figuring these out and letting us know what they think it is LOL! Plus, we will be adding in some stealth self-control so he can offer a behavior in the presence of the toy rather than just want to party with the toy toy 🙂So here are some ideas:
* In your regular training/shaping with treats, choose a behavior that you think is really easy for him at this point in terms of offering, maybe with a prop. SOmething like, feet in a box? Anything easy that you think he stands a solid chance of doing and he seems to enjoy.
Do your normal routine of play with the toy, then switch to treats – but using this simple behavior, keep the toy visible! Have it in your other hand, or tucked under your elbow. This will help ease into the toy being present during offering and not just play. It seems that so far, in his experience, the toy is not present during offering, therefore he does not yet have an association between the toy and offering.* Does he know how to do a hand touch (nose to your hand)? This is a way to get the toy involved in the offering stages by helping him with a cue: party with the tugging. Get the ‘out’ then present your other hand with the palm open for a hand touch. Be sure to make the toy as small as possible in the other hand, and also be sure that you look at your open hand for the hand touch (not at him!). When he gives you a hand touch, even a crappy one -back to toy party. A crappy hand touch is fine to start because at least it is an offered behavior rather than watching the toy. And he will have to take his eyes off the toy in order to do the hand touch – so hard!!!!!
* For the sitting in the presence of the toy:
Is he really good at offering sits in the presence of food? If so, great! Food is a definite cue for pups to offer stuff like sits. Using food (and without a toy present for now) – shape him to get on a big mat or chair or kLimb or something then shape him to sit on that mat/chair/klimb. We start this without a toy present for him, because I think he would have a hard time offering it if there was a toy.Then we proceed the same way as above with the easy behavior – food is still used as a reward, but the toy is present and visible. (If being in your hand or tucked into your arm is too hard, then it can be visible on a table or something).
Then eventually we proceed to shaping sessions that are all toy-based, only using the toy and no food – mat-tug-mat, then mat-sit-tug, etc.
Let me know if this makes sense! It will be SUPER useful to get him to understand to offer in the presence of the toy, because we shape a ton of agility behaviors with a toy reward. And, offering behavior also involves self-control on the toy, which is NOT easy! That is why I suggest starting with something like a prop to help get it rolling, as well as having the toy visible/present in other sessions.
Have fun!
TracyGood morning Linda and Mookie!
>>For the run that didn’t go well, I didn’t know how to handle 2 sequences on the course and therefore did not really rehearse or visualize. I was in the first group in so could not really watch others.
Ah yes, understandable and valid! Was there anyone at the trial who knows you and Mookie that you could have asked about how to handle it, to get ideas before the walk through? Crowd sourcing ideas is perfectly fine as long as you only ask positive people and only ask people who know you and your dog pretty well.
>>It was my first time in Premier Standard and a fellow exhibitor told me that it was the most complicated course she had ever seen and was not a good one for my first time.
This is the kind of comment that should kickstart some of your mental prep processes – affirmations to say that you CAN totally do it, blocking out negative comments, etc. I am sure the comment was well-intended but it is pretty negative and is exactly the type of comment that can mess with your focus and confidence.
>>I have since recreated the 2 sequences and figured them out.
Yay! That is the perfect thing to do. And I am sure you will see those challenges again and you will nail it.
>>I have been practicing what we have missed in runs which has shown me what cues I have to give for those type of sequences.
If we see these sequences again (with bi-directional jumps and skipping a jump in a serpentine line of jumps) I now know how to handle it.So perfect!!!! Yay!
Sounds like you and Mookie are doing GREAT!!! Looking forward to seeing you in December!!
Tracy
The videos came through! Yay!! Both of your dogs are so cute, it was distracting to me haha!!!!!
I think your memorization process was really solid – you didn’t have to look ahead or hesitate or figure out where the next obstacle was, you were able to stay really focused on the boys. Nice!
I think one thing can really help them both – and it is not mental prep related at all! A handling thing that helps small dogs is to have your dog-side arm further back (almost by your butt) and look at their eyes more as you move around the course). When you use your hand/arm to point to the line, it turns your shoulders a bit away from the line and blocks their view of your shoulders and eyes. And, it turns out, that the dogs are reading our shoulders and not our hands – and so that is why both boys had questions for you on this course. It will feel weird looking at them a little more with your hand back, but it will point your shoulders towards the line more as you move so they will commit better and they will see connection better. Now, don’t stare at them haha!! Look at them and keep moving – that way they will go fast AND commit. Buddy really let you know that the connection had broken a little – especially at the end when he went around the last jump and went to cookies haha!
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi there!
These are good!!!!
>>– Keep reminding myself that there are no failures, all we are doing is exposing new learning opportunities
Yes, that is part of the reframing process.
>>– It may be a bit ritualistic, but I take the course maps for NQ runs and crumple them up and toss them in the trash
Ha! This is actually a recommended mental prep ritual, lots of folks in sports do something similar to toss away failures 🙂
>>– I don’t look at NQ video’s until I get home – keep the demons away
It might be worth it to look at them between runs, in case there is something you see that can help you on the very next run too.
>>– there is always something good that happens in any run, that’s what I think about and visualize
Yes! And also a bit of gratitude – we are all really lucky to be able to be out there doing this game with our dogs, even when it goes totally awry 🙂 Many folks would trade places in a heartbeat!
>>– And I keep reminding myself that he’s just messing with me – every single time I start getting discouraged, he says it’s time to show Tom some brilliance, sucking me right back in.
Ha! This is a great release valve… Cody is the ultimate slot machine! He lets you win the jackpot often enough to keep you hooked 🙂
T
Helloooooo Linda and Mookie!
Thank you for sharing your success!!! That is so amazing, I am doing a happy dance for you!!!! 5 of 6 with placements is a pretty amazing success rate in agility!!!! Well done to you for implementing these ideas so nicely!
On the run where you didn’t feel as prepared… what did you do differently, or did you skip anything? It is important to evaluate that as well so we can avoid skipping things in the future 🙂Keep practicing these skills, they will continue to get easier and easier for you to execute 🙂
Keep me posted!
TracyHi again!
>>Here’s the beginning of the motivated stay video where he was sticky.
Got it! No worries 🙂 I don’t think he was overly aroused there and frozen, I think he was waiting for more info in the form of “perhaps mom will show me something or ask for something” but then he made a great choice. You can release immediately when he asks that question 🙂 And, soon enough, we can add a sit cue so he can be 100% certain of what we want there.
>>So, part of my issue with being outside … He is obsessed with putting EVERYTHING in his mouth. He was in the emergency vet for 3 days because of eating a poison mushroom. He eats leaves, acorns, sticks, pebbles, etc.
>>I like your idea about tossing treats when he’s on the way to grab the toy when we’re outside. Since he has to wear a net on his head, maybe I should always be carrying another toy with me to toss back at him instead of treats.Ah, I do remember that from seeing it on Facebook! The Outfox is great and he can pick up toys, right? So yes to the idea of tossing toys rather than food in that situation.
>>I don’t have any grass. All I have is gravel and leaves. He’d have to sift through the leaves and gravel to find the treats and then will probably put them in his mouth:-)
Ok then no tossed treats outside 🙂 But you can set up the situation inside and toss treats to rehearse the replacement behavior.
Does he try to grab/eat things even with the Outfox on?>>I’ll try the toy races outside without his head net (Outfox) on and see what happens.
And also do some heeling with Outfox on at first then (with toys) then without the Outfox with treats. I think moving self-control games are useful too, we will be looking at those soon 🙂
>>He really is a lovely very talented boy. The future is bright as long as I can keep him from eating up the outdoors.
Totally agree! He is a great guy 🙂 And he will learn not to eat everything LOL!
Tracy
Hi!
>>Just confirming that I am seeing what you did. ” Line her up at your side, holding her next to your leg, *then* throw the toy. That way she is already facing the straight line”. I did this on the first race right?
I think the 2nd rep was a better example of it – she remained where she was lined up and the toy was ahead – check out how she was pretty straight. On the first rep, you moved her back to push back and that caused her to push off the pressure and go a little wide.
>> Yep, I am sure she will smoke me in the end. I have no fear in that one.
The ‘smoke ya’ is strong in this little one for sure 🙂
T
Hi!
You gave yourself a great challenge!
Did you post a link? I don’t see it but maybe I am looking right past it?>>Set it up at 1:30 didn’t run it till around 3:30 – 4:00 pm
Did you walk it right after set up? That 2 hour time difference simulates a real trial!
>>I can tell you with Tanner I felt confident in what it was but frustrated with both boys that I couldn’t get enough room to feel like I could move in my handling.
Ah! Great distraction – just like at a trial where the course might feel ‘tight’ and not enough room between obstacles.
>>. I was concentrating more with the verbal conversation going on and trying to tune it out with Buddy’s run and just didn’t feel the connection that I had with Tanner. Did make note to myself about having verbal conversation around me to work on in my memorization and visualization. I also made note to myself to praise Tanner more when close handling ( I had forgotten about when working on my run reminders for Tanner ).>>
And this is exactly why we do these exercises… to make notes and add to what we need to do at an actual trial. Mission accomplished!! Yay!
>> my mind wasn’t thinking about it until I walked back in with Tanner.
Were you able to pull up the visualizations and remember it clearly? How did it feel?
>>I was adding lots of extra’s for me in this exercise just to see what I need to continue to work on. Such as Running boys back to back , verbal conversation distraction and not really mentally rehearsing this course prior to running it. You are right it does take continuation of working on this. Besides things that I wouldn’t have thought about until it happens to make notes to had to my work on this.>>
Perfect! That is exactly why we do it! Running clean in practice is not as important as learning what we need to do for trials.
>>I did chuckle to myself my one friend that was talking in the video said 3 different times to me I think you should re video this run with Buddy before turning it in to your instructor.
ha! yes, we want to post the first efforts, not the perfect efforts LOL!
>>your right being positive in my response she couldn’t come back with much of anything else but OKAY even tho it took 3x to get her to listen. lol I know what she was wanting me to turn in the best thing ever and her intentions are good. I can’t be perfect all the time ;)!!
This was also an important mental prep moment… most people have very good intentions and want to help… but wow, sometimes what they say does NOT help at all LOL!! So you had a great rehearsal of how to use positivity to extricate yourself from the help 🙂
>>I can’t wait till next week to discuss with how things went with my check list of mental routines. After this exercise I have a feeling there is going to be a whole lot more added on and that’s okay.
Yes! It is perfectly okay to keep learning & adding, because we are always learning and adding 🙂
Keep me posted!
TracyGood morning!
yay for puppy class recalls! So great to do them in a zillion places with distractions too 🙂On the tug sit tug video: he was offering his sits nicely! SOme were faster than others but he was great with the toy releases and NOT jumping for the toy, choosing the sits instead. Good boy!
Be a little clearer with the release – sometimes it was OK Get It and sometimes it was Yay or yes. You were more consistent as the session went on – I think you can choose either OK or Get It, you don’t need both for him at this point. I use the release from the stay I will want to use on the start line. He did really well as you added more duration too – be sure praise as you extend the duration – at the end, you had a long duration rep and he was looking around because it was soooo quiet LOL! If he does look around, juts wait, don’t step towards him – let him make a decision. And after a rep where he looks around, follow up with 2 or 3 reps that are super short and quick.
The whole session was really engaging and exciting! Well done!!!!Tracy
Good morning!
She was a good girl on her tug sit tug game! I think the distraction of the moving/barking family members was too much early on, in terms of getting her to look at you immediately in this game – we don’t want to build in looking away while moving into the sit. So add the distraction more gradually, maybe with the dog stationed nearby so they are present but not moving as much in the first parts of the game. Then you can add back more distraction gradually. We don’t want her to multi-task, we want it to be automatic 🙂 Then each time you add an element – like walking away, turning away, jogging away, bit countdown… dial back the distractions at first so she can be super successful.
About rewarding off to the side – it is not super important until you get to the level where you lead out and are turned away, like a lead out over the first jump. Then ideally you would reward at your side, but not off to the side, if that makes sense. For now, all the releases can be to drive to you holding the toy.Toy races:
Yes, the goal is straight line acceleration especially with herdy dogs that might want to drift out/flank a little 🙂 She is mostly perfect with it and she definitely likes to drive ahead! Two tweaks:
– Line her up at your side, holding her next to your leg, *then* throw the toy. That way she is already facing the straight line. Don’t throw it too far away for now, keep it maybe 6 feet for now – we already have the drive ahead 🙂 so now we can isolate the drive-straight and not drive-slightly-to-the-outside.
– Don’t use the stay for now – her stay behavior is fine, but it is all SO EXCITING that she is flanking on the release a little bit then driving back in – which might be why you feel like the toy placement is not correct. Yes, toy placement can be more straight ahead, but it was more of her going out then coming back that you were seeing. So – no need for her to feel the wind in her hair quite yet haha! Take out the stay and some of the excitement and shorten the distance so you can get her totally straight 🙂 I am 150% confident that she will have no problem accelerating ahead of you when we add more distance LOL!!Nice work here! She’s looking great! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
On the stays game – He is doing well! We can build on it since he has gone through a lot of the levels already. A couple of ideas for you – try to turn more sideways so you are facing away but still connected with him, rather than facing him at first. This will begin to simulate walking away during a lead out. You can add more distance here too (just a step or two further away) which also builds in more duration. And, great job releasing and moving *after* he moves. Yay! So now one more level to add is release – he moves – then you explode and run and get a little wilder in the play. He was releasing by then wasn’t really sure or explosive, because you weren’t moving. So you will be able to get even more explosiveness out of the release this way… which in turn will add more challenge to the stay.
On additional challenge you can add is a visual distraction/excitement, since most of these stays will be done in front of something really exciting (like a jump or tunnel). Use the toy as the distraction – can he hold his stay while you dangle the toy? And hold it while the toy dangles and you are counting? This will eventually build up to holding his stay while you put the toy on the ground (he can look at the toy) or while you toss the toy. All are good challenges, just start with small pieces so he can be super successful.When you say ‘sticky’, how long does it take him to get himself into the sit? This is all good for balancing excitement/arousal with thoughtful behavior.
On the toy races:
A couple of tweaks on mechanics: Start with him already facing the direction you want to run, and *then* throw the toy. On the first rep, you tossed the toy then turned him around, walked away, positioned him… that lowers the drive to the toy. The next rep had better drive to the toy because he could face it the whole time.
Also, have him next to you before you throw it, but no need to physically turn his body either before or after the throw – he doesn’t seem to really like being moved like that (note how he looks away at 1:15 when you move his bum to your side. So he can be slightly sideways if needed, he will sort it out 🙂
When you got to it first and then ran the other way, he definitely got excited by that!! Nice!
One last thought on this one – try to only do it on surfaces where he can dig in with his feet – dirt and grass come to mind 🙂 He is not really using his hind end here, probably because the surface doesn’t have a lot of dig-in options and also short distances. You can see that he is keeping his back feet together and jogging along rather than digging in. So, using longer distances where he can really open up and grass or dirt will engage his hind end more – that in turn is great for speed building and hind end awareness.About grabbing for stuff in the yard… I think that developing a routine of not grabbing it will help. It isn’t a terrible thing to grab for the toys but we don’t want him trying to race you to something in a casual (not cued) setting, because sometimes we don’t want him to grab what you are picking up or investigating. And also it should help him not ever grab your hand by accident (ouch!)
Since it seems that he is aware of the stuff out there and recognizes when you are going to pick it up, let’s train an alternate behavior (because trying to race him to it or get mad about it will probably cause him to grab it sooner LOL!). So as you move towards the item to pick up, let’s change his response:
You can toss something away (like a handful of treats) in the opposite direction and tell him to get it. This will start to get him to look for his treats as you move towards the item, to counter condition the impulse to race you to it.
Then when the impulse is reduced, you can start to cue a behavior – a wait of some sort. A sit or down (whichever he likes better) our a stand. I tell my dogs to “wait a sec” which basically means “stand still”. And then I reward that with something tossed to them. So while you are out and about in this situation, have treats at the ready so you can work this every time – it will be a quick learn for him for sure!Let me know what you think!
Tracy
