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Hi!
>> he is especially floofy on his rear. Min poked him in the side of his thigh with her nose and her entire nose disappeared in to his floof! >>OMG I bet Min was surprised haha!!!
I just watch his back feet now – the floof makes it too hard for me to read his topline – I need to improve my Sheltie Floof Reading skills 🙂>>His back end is still coming up a bit high in the double especially, but seems to be settling down with the 8in single jump.
Yes, that is exactly what I see! So, let’s stick with the single jump for now – no need to encourage the higher hind end, because it might be related to the size of the oxer.
>> I am not seeing a difference in this when I added some movement.
No real difference, in fact I think some of the reps where you did not lead out or you moved less were a bit stronger! But he is organized as he releases and also looking ahead and looking downwards (not at you) – so that is PERFECT. His jumping form will continue to percolate as 2 things happen:
– as he gets older and the bars go up (he is approaching a year now, right? So on this good footing, you can start to add a 10 inch bar into a session, then a 12 inch bar, etc. Just a couple here and there – not rush – and definitely on the good grass footing you have so he can stay organized
– he still has a lot of physical muscling up that will be happening in the next 6 months – he has probably stopped growing in terms of height, but now his chest will drop, his muscles will pop, and his core strength will increase. He is almost old enough to start a true conditioning program, as opposed to the puppy coordination stuff we do. I think that the adult core strength as it develop in the next 6 months to a year will help him control the power in his hind end even more, and that is great!!>>In some of the early doubles it looks like he’s not striding in as deep, but maybe he’s just feeling like he needs more space to clear the jump.>>
It is possible that the visual of the oxer is big enough that he is doing more to clear it. And that is fine 🙂 I think for now, the next sessions (once or twice a week, otherwise we get into too much jumping with a baby dog) should be on the single with an emphasis of a slightly higher bar. A warm up on 6 or 8 inches, then show him a rep of two of 10, then back down (bearing in mind that fatigue is a real thing so the harder reps should be done just after the warm up).
It is exciting to be see his form developing so nicely! Keep me posted on how he does with the slightly higher bar.
TracyHi!
>>So “tunnel” doesn’t default to go straight out of the tunnel? I was saying “go” later as an afterthought thinking that tunnel meant take the tunnel and keep going unless I cue otherwise. Although I guess that having a directional (including go) would be clearer assuming it is given in a timely manner.>>
This is a good question 🙂 In years past, I subscribed to the “tunnel” means go straight unless I told the dog something else… and what I got was a series of dogs that did not turn on tunnel exits unless I practically did physical and verbal cartwheels. So with this recent generation (Nacho, who just turned 6, and the younger dogs), I align the tunnel verbals with my contact verbals. The obstacle name is a generalized commitment cue, and it is also a forward cue (meaning to accelerate forward on the flat to commit to the obstacle as early as possible). The directional tells the dog how to prepare to exit (and also the change in energy of the obstacle name verbal helps – I am not going to shout TUNNEL if I want a wrap exit :)) Same with a running dog walk: walk it cue to commit to the obstacle, but then an exit directional. This has resulted in dogs that understand how to go straight out of tunnels AND dogs that turn without me needed to make offerings to the gods LOL!
On the video:
>>Not sure I was fading off to the side as much as I could on the left/rights, but I wasn’t getting those wide looping turns.
I think you had earlier timing on the verbals AND there was enough change in the handling that he could read both the left/right nicely AND the go too! And your connection on the exit looked really good on the left & right turns. He had nice line to the wings! And as you added the race track in – he did a great job going from fast to handler focus/tight turns/back to fast on the go after the tunnel. Your run at 1:33 is a great example of doing a variety of things and he did great! And ending on the go lines was challenging – those lines are hard, especially after all the turns, and he nailed it!
Next steps on this would be to just make it bigger 🙂 Spread things out so you have to run harder… and he will get to run harder and that will be super fun for him (and challenging for you, because the timing comes up faster and the connection is harder to maintain).
Great job!
TracyHi! This is going well! He is a keen one… note how he wants to lean into that first jump. Ha! Hooray for loving the game! I am like, dude, it is just a jump grid, just wait til you see what is ahead for the REAL fun LOL!!!! He seems to be adjusting the sit to put his left front a little forward and bend his elbows – but consistently making organized approaches to the first jump. So, the observations about the bit of leaning are just observations and we let him do it and you keep rewarding that stay.
He has the concept of bouncing and being organized – and that is perfect. I think we are in the ‘too soon to make a final decision’ stage as far as distance goes. He looks good on both 4 and 5 feet, I am leaning towards 5 feet, but there are 2 other things happening that we can smooth out before finalizing the distance:
– early in the video on 4 feet – he was a little leapy on the 2nd jump. I believe this was a reflection of how stimulating the cookie target was (not a reflection on his jumping form). That cookie target is DARNED EXCITING and produces a bit of a leap upwards in MANY pups. My 2 year old dog did that as a pup (she would go 3 feet in the air) and Elektra does it too a bit. So, you can smooth that in 2 ways: move the cookie target way out away from the 2nd jump, 12 feet or so – that way he strides, lands, strides… and then can leap up in joy if he wants to LOL! Or, use a toy as a target about 12 feet away. Now, the toy might also produce a leap (or not, we won’t know til we try).– later in the video, he was looking up at you as he was going through the uprights on jump 2 – probably because he was able to jump AND watch the cookie in your hand move to the target LOL! So, you can have the cookie already on the target and see if that helps.
These suggestions are more about sorting out reward mechanics and not so much about his form – the form element is going fine! So the reward mechanics will allow us to build up into bigger jump challenges (and I found that figuring out how to get the pups to de-leap and NOT watch also really help contact training, especially RDW).
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
He was a superstar at class, I am looking forward to the next one too!! I really enjoy getting to see these pups work ‘live’ 🙂
Great stuff on the video!
The Wind In Your Hair looks terrific, he is picking up the line to the jump really nicely and also wrapping the barrel really well! You can add a bit of challenge by doing a front cross on the barrel (it draws his attention to you which then adds challenge for him to get his focus back on the line to the jump) and also, you can stay very very close to the barrel for the wrap: stay next to it until he has finished wrapping, then drive forward: this will challenge him to drive ahead of you! You can add more distance between the barrel and the jump when this is easy for him 🙂And good job adding motion (more running and the GO verbal) when you revisited it later in the video, he was completely fine with that – nice distraction to have the horse supervising LOL! It is a nice insight into how he works – ignores distractions, goes faster when asked and does NOT lose his head when going faster: PERFECT!
The set point is off to a great start. He is really young, so we are just teaching concept and coordination at this stage and the form will develop from there. His stay is looking really good (it is easy to forget how young he is!) and I like that you took the time to get him to sit ‘square’ with his back feet under him. The youngsters will sometimes offer a puppy sit with a back foot out to the side or a rolled hip, so you can help him set up in a square, upright sit so he can get himself organized better when you release him. He is sorting out his coordination so not quite bouncing between the 2 jumps yet – but it will percolate and develop, I am sure we will see it in the next session or two 🙂 You can also try a toy out ahead instead of the manners minder, if he likes the toys!
The barrel to tunnel with the Go exit: This is also progressing well! 2 little suggestions for you:
When you exit the wrap on the barrel, stay super connection to his eyes and say tunnel sooner, and to him: you were moving forward and looking at the tunnel, so he was watching you more and not driving directly to the tunnel. More eye contact as he exits the barrel will smooth that out. And, on the go exit: as he learns the verbal, support a lot of with body language. In this case, more running 🙂 As he exits and you are cuing the go, drive to the next barrel to support the verbal there.Proofing – nice job with just the right amount of help with the physical cues to match the verbal cues. He did so nicely! And there was a massive difference in the tone and energy of the verbals, that really helps!! He is bending beautifully on the barrels too. When you switched sides, you can see him picking up speed AND looking at the tunnel when wrapping, so it was more of a true discrimination: but he was still perfect. Yay! You were adding more motion to this, so feel free to get him even wilder and then after sending him into the tunnel, run into the wrap more – motion might make it harder for him to ‘hear’ the cue, but he is ready for that challenge 🙂
The was a moment of smiley face at the end: looks great! You can spread it out and run more – maintain your connection like you had here (it looked strong!) and challenge him by adding speed with running (he will like that, I believe :))
Great job here! Was there more to your post? It looks like it got cut off 🙂
TracyHi! It looked like you were having a blast!!!!
Smileys are going well! I know there were little bloopers but that is exactly why we play these games: to hash out the little details for both dog and handler 🙂
Your verbals are in place and that is awesome!! Also, he is doing well with slithering around the wing without touching it when you rotate, especially when you keep your motion smooth like one the 2nd rep (rather than going from stationary to exploding away, like on the first rep).
He seems to have great value for the tunnel and for moving with you – double yay for both of those!!! That means a little extra patience is required on the wing wraps, because he very quickly figured out that after the wing, there would be running and tunneling… so he asked if perhaps skipping the wing would be OK? LOL! I think that was part of what was happening at :15 and :17 when he didn’t wrap (you were trying to rotate away from the wing). When you got the wrap at :24 and also at :31, you were one step more patient by waiting for him to turn his head around the edge of the wing before you rotated. It was subtle but it really helped him!
The other thing to exaggerate for now is the connection: the spots where you had a pretty strong eye contact were also the spots where he nailed it: the wrap exits at :12, :25, :32 , the exit of the tunnel to the wing at :34.Now the spots where things went awry were places you can ramp up connection:
At :13 he exited the tunnel and you were looking forward, so he was moving up the line and watching you the whole time (rather than looking forward to the wing) so he didn’t commit. He had a little head check at :34 but he saw the connection, so he committed nicely!At :36, he ended up on your left side after a wrap when you wanted him on your right – you were looking ahead so as he came around the wing, he didn’t have the eye contact to provide side info, like he did at :40 (and at :12, on the same wing). That heartbeat of eye contact as you move away makes a big difference for him as he is learning these skills.
The race track at the end looks great! Motion and eye contact set the line and he stayed on it. YES!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyI can post about what I am doing – but since the exercises are all guided by veterinarians, I should not posts games or give feedback… that is too far out of my range LOL!!
The countdown is ON! Some general info will be posted tonight and tomorrow then we go for real on Saturday 🙂
Hi! It is perfectly fine with me, if Kim is fine with it 🙂 I like watching Sly too, and Kim asks brilliant questions!
I can post the tight sit stuff as a thread or games if you are interested! I am really obsessing on it all with my 2 year old dog, to help strengthen her knees, but it is good stuff for all of the dogs. My larger pup is almost old enough to start formal conditioning games 🙂
TOmg this was so fun to watch!!!! She is a real Spitfire!! Did she start running a sequence without you at the very beginning? LOL!!!
She did really well here: tons of speed and arousal, but she kept her head and was fully focused. SO FUN!!!!
On the Go out of the tunnel- I think adding more connection as she exits will really help her stay on the straight line. You were running for your life a bit (she is small but FAST!) so you were looking forward. For now… cheat to get ahead by sending her to the wing wrap before the tunnel from further away, so you can be ahead and making eye contact as she exits the tunnel.
When you wrapped the wing and she didn’t take the tunnel on the way back – that’s another connection point. You were not connected when she passed it, but then on the next rep you were connected more and she found the tunnel. Yay! So keep exaggerating your connections.
About the turns: they look great so far!! It was hard to see exactly what she did on the right turn out of the tunnel because of the camera angle, but the left turn was very visible and she did great, nice and tight! She was making the turn before she exited, which is terrific! So yes, I agree that she probably doesn’t independently know the verbals yet, but you were good with the handling and timing here , so the verbals will take on meaning very quickly with more sessions like this. Great job!!!
TracyHi! She is doing well with her set points! The stay is coming along nicely (I think she moved early on the first rep but was solid on the others) and that is helping her get organized for the first jump. She is pushing off nicely and form is also nice between the 2 jumps. Her head is down and she is striding properly: and that is all we can ask for at this age LOL!!! You can add in the challenge of you standing up the whole time as you release her – and drop the cookie to the target to help keep her head down (rather than lean in to place it). If she starts to lift her head, we can have you go back to bending in but I think she will be fine with keeping her head down. And keep rewarding that stay, it is developing nicely!
TI can understand why Pose would have big feelings about it all 🙂
Yes to balancing it… but not toooooo much. Small dog lines can be a bit wider because of all the extension.
THi! This went well! He was especially happy to drive to the jump when the toy was already out there, but he gets a gold star for not trying to skip the barrel 🙂 He did really well with you sending, and I am glad you added running at the end: we want both skills. Ideally, when you send but don’t run, he should commit but come back after the jump but when you run… he should carry on for miles 🙂 So keep on adding distance between the jump and the barrel so you can add in even more running. And, when the toy is out past the jump… every now and then, ask him for a 2nd wrap (kind of like when we were focusing on getting the head turns) before driving to the Go. That is to keep him watching for the cue and not just anticipating. I suggest that double wrap once in every 8 or 10 reps. Nice work here!!
TracyHi!
Wind in your hair looks great! He was driving ahead so nicely!!! Next steps… more distance 🙂 See if you can build up to a 25 foot distance between the wing and the jump. That might take one session or 5 sessions or more, but we can get that going before the snows come. I think it will take him 1 maybe 2 sessions. Start at the distance you had here (15 feet-ish?) and move the wing by one of your strides (2 or 3 feet) further away on the next rep after he has been successful on both sides. If he struggles on one rep, try it again, If he struggles twice, move the wing back one foot closer to the jump. His success rate will guide you as to how quickly you can move it away from the jump 🙂Set point – click/treat to you BOTH for the stay! NICE! He did really well staying and reading the grid. He got a little ‘leapy’ on the last 2 reps, meaning kind of bunny hopping to the Ready Treat. This is not a reflection of this jumping form, it is a response to the reward. Some dogs leap to the remote feeders, so we can try a toy or you can move the RT further away so he can land and stride (and THEN leap LOL!) His form on the jumps is looking good, we just don’t want him to pre-leap based on seeing the RT LOL! Also, it was hard to tell but it sounds like you triggered the RT as he was moving through the first bar – you can wait til he has landed from #2 to trigger it and see if that is less exciting to him, and therefore less leaping 🙂
Doing this to a toy on the ground is harder, so you can work that skill with a stay at home – first dangling a toy, then placing it – so he understands how to stay when you put a toy on the ground.The 6 foot distance looked good – he is old enough to have a bar at 6″ now, so you can try that and see how it goes!
Hi! I was not sure if I was over-obsessing about the sit (that is always a possibility with me LOL!)
The sports vet people want us handlers to get the tight tight sits so that the dogs push off correctly and also so we are sure we are strengthening the dogs fully (I have been on a mission to strengthen quads in my dogs – they are strong in many places but quads are weak!)
I am teaching the super tight sits using a platform:
As well as working on 2 different types of sit-stand behaviors: one where she steps forward into the stand with her front feet, and then steps back with her front feet into the sit (hind end does not move) and another version where she leaves her front feet completely stationary and her back end goes up and down in the sit to stand behavior. These are part of a fitness plan from a sports vet and they strengthen different parts of her legs along with her core (she might need surgery for luxating patellas 🙁 so we are pre-habbing). I have video of this *somewhere* but cannot find it at the moment. She is due to do this today in her workout, so I will put it on video 🙂
And in the meantime… we do not want to get into a struggle with stays while he is still learning tight sits, but we don’t want rehearsal of pushing off out of non-tight sits. So – I suggest avoid it by using a stand stay 🙂 He will probably be happy to do a stand stay and that way you can work the skills separately 🙂 He probably didn’t know how to produce the tight sit so I can see how he would go to the frantic place.
>> In the summer session I would get an email whenever you replied to one of my posts. For some reason that’s not happening with this session. Any ideas as to why?>>
There is a box in the lower left, just below your reply box – it should say something like “notify me of replies” – click it so it turns blue and then you should get emails. If you have clicked it and are not getting emails, let me know! And check your spam box, especially if you have a Gmail account: gmail likes to “filter” things 🙂
Tracy
