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Hello!
>Good morning!>
This cracked me up that you posted at 9:42 PM but said good morning because you know I would see it early hahahahaha I couldn’t respond til after a vet appointment but it made me chuckle 🙂
The games are all looking really good!
Rocking horses: I wonder if having treats in your hands in causing him to have a question about whether you were throwing them or not at first? You can try the first few reps of a future session with empty hands. He sorted it out really well and the rest of the session went super! He only had one question (:55-ish) where I believe he was still chewing when you started the send, so he lost the side info and ended up wrapping the other way. So a couple more moments to let him finish chewing (priorities haha) before the send will smooth that out.
The full circles on the threadle wrap foundation went well! He seemed to have more challenge working on your right side: he wanted to go faster but that made some of the turning away harder. You can feed him the treats from the cookie hand sometimes when he drives to it, before turning him away, to help convince him to slow down to let you turn him away.
> I tried to take a break to play tug in the middle but he was allll about food tonight. It seems I kept offering him boring treats today during our day to day stuff – which he refused every time. When I pulled out better treats to play, he was all about it!>
Are the ‘boring’ treats stuff like kibble, etc? It would be really nice if he would take the boring treats so you can save the GREAT stuff for harder environments. Maybe you can convince him by throwing some of the dullsville treats into a bag with the good stuff, so they smell a little more exciting? And he is also more likely to tug if the food is less exciting, but for now you can try running into a different room for tugging. He might find it hard to tug when he is in the middle of all the good cookie smells, so moving to a different place can help get him excited for the tugging and out of cookie mode.
Remote reinforcement went really well! He was definitely engaged – almost like it was too easy so he was shocked by that hahaha! Since this went so well, there are a couple of things you can add to it:
– yes, you can change locations so he sees the game in a variety of places
– you can start to ask for tricks or fun behaviors when he has moved with you away from the treat station
– you can add in stuff like carrying him away from the treats, then putting him down: does he stay with you or run to the treats? You might eventually carry him to the start line at a trial, so it is a good thing to show him.
– you can add in doing this on leash too, so he doesn’t think the leash is WEIRD hahaThe stays are coming along REALLY nicely! He is holding the stay as you are moving away, and in fact I think he is scooting backwards on some of the reps in anticipation of the thrown reward LOL! Brilliant! In the 2nd half of the session, you were walking away from him (like a lead out) and he did great. YAY! So the next step here is to line him up at your side (you can totally do a cookie lure for this) as if lining him up in front of a jump, then keep working on stays & duration 🙂
Great job!
Tracy
Hello! The backsides went well!!!
Your mechanics were good – strong connection, you were moving for a few steps before the release. Nice!
She had a couple of questions and I think it was more about how far across the towel bar you were on your line. Compare the first rep at :11 versus the 2nd rep at :29 and you were pretty far away, so she checked in with you at :29 and :37. She got to the backside correctly but hit the barrel on those as she was sorting it out. On the other side, you started out heading to the middle of the towel bar (:54) and when you got a lot further away, she ended up on the front side of the bar.
So I think if you move further away more gradually, she will have a smoother line: start by moving up the line to where the barrel and towel meet. Then you can move over one step at a time, and I think that will help answer her questions and keep the line smooooooth 🙂
> If they hit the barrel, which she has inside & outside, how does she sort that out? Am I supposed to do something?>
Generally hitting the barrel is one of two things: either she has a question about it and needs to look at you, or she was driving to get the reward if it was thrown.
When she hit the barrel here (like at :29 and :37) it was her trying to figure out what to do with you really far away. She will sort that out when you move over to that spot more gradually and as she learns the skill more. If she continues to hit the barrel, you can make it easier for her to find the line.
There was one rep where she hit the barrel when you threw the reward (1:41) but no worries, she will sort that out as the games expand and she gets more experience with them.
> I have a bizillion questions,>
Lay ’em on me!
Great job here!
Tracy
Hello!
I agree, the backside slices went really well – he seemed to totally understand the concept of staying on the parallel line to find the backside approach to the barrel & jump bump. SUPER! Your connection and rewarding was spot on!
Only one suggestion: you can be moving forward before you release him. You can start walking along the line parallel to his backside path then after 2 steps or so, begin the push verbals to release him from the stay. That way he will see the info before hs starts moving, which will make the line even smoother. This will be especially useful when you were further across the jump – when you were releasing and moving at the same time, he was stepping in towards you a little before going back out to the backside line.
Great job here – onwards to the advanced level 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
The Wind In Your Hair game went really well!He did a great job finding the jump – no problem at all! So now you can add two elements:
– more motion: as he is getting to the barrel, you can start running forward past the jump. Be sure to show him lots of acceleration (because we will be using that to contrast with other cues in upcoming games). He was watching your hand as you mentioned early in the video, but that was because there was no forward motion so he was cueing off the hand. When you are moving, I bet he looks at the line more.
– more distance: separate the barrel and the jump as much as possible so he gets to really run run run 🙂
>I eventually remembered to say go-go-go intermittently – I really need a whiteboard and to write up what i’m going to SAY.>
You were saying ‘jump’ which totally works. “Go” will be more of a directional for when you want long straight lines on course.
>! I left in the bit where barry clonked his noggin on the handle of the bin, and i paid him to come close to it again – because it’s such a loud clonk!>
OMG! It was so LOUD!!!! Poor little guy! I am glad her recovered 🙂
Nice work here!
Tracy
Hi!
> It’s just training, every time i’m doing a wrap I’ll have to consciously plan which cue to use, might need to tattoo the cues onto my hands hahaha.>
I had to plan all of the verbals even with these foundation games when I started using them. It got easier so I don’t have to think as hard now 🙂
>\(I did write cues on my hands once when i was running someone else’s dog which had directionals) bahaha>>
I can’t even imagine trying to run with someone else’s verbals LOL!!! I can barely remember the name of the dog I am running (ask me how many times I have called the wrong name :))
T
Good morning!
>Her thoughts were very transparent with that video view!>
I love when a dog gives us feedback 🙂
The wingin’ it game went great!
> I included our first one wing rep. We only built up to two wings then finished with around each way. I included the first and last two wing reps. Ironically I feel like the first one was better! Then on side going around.>
I thought all the reps here were great! She is committing brilliantly. Your connection is spot on. Love it!
I think maybe you liked the first wing reps better because you rotated sooner on the 2nd wing? That was great commitment. The other rep had a slightly later rotation on the 2nd wing, so you can decelerate earlier to send her past you, making it easier to rotate. But truly, I thought all the reps were lovely.
And she was great with the race track around the outside! It is such a hard challenge to NOT wrap but she totally understood the assignment 🙂 SUPER!!!! You can make it even more fun and get even more speed by spreading the wings out even more 🙂
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
The teeter is going well! You will get more speed up the board if he has a straight line to it from the exit of the cone. He had to turn to find the entry here and that was defnitely making it a slower rnu up the board.
He seemed to not be worried at all with the tiny bit of tip. Every few days you can add a tiny bit more tip 🙂
Double crosses:
These are definitely hard for us humans because of how quick they are! Remember that it is your eyes that cue the line after a blind, not your hands. When things were going a little sideways (either he didn’t know where to be or he grumbled at you :)) it was because your were emphsizing your hand and only connecting peripherally. That meant he had to rely on your motion on the line: it motion was super clear, he could get it (like at 4:10) but if it was not clear or you were trying to point ahead of him (like at 1:46 or 2:42) then he had to look up at you to get more info and didn’t always see the line to the wing.
You can show the connection more easily and quicker but keeping your arms in tight to you (bent at the elbows and not fully extended) to be able to make the connection more directly while you move – that will smooth it out. My favorite rep of connection here was at 2:52!
Tandem turns: also going really well!
>I was saying “here, here” a lot. Is there a verbal I’m supposed to be using?>
The verbals are very specific to the context and type of turn. Tandem turns can cover a lot of different scenarios on course.
Eventually these become threadle wraps but the verbal really depends on the context. A tandem turn is closer to a rear cross on the flat: they aren’t always a wrap, are cued entirely by the handler (including when to turn away), and can be used on the front or back of the jump (and you turn with him). Threadle wraps are specific to the backside and are always wraps (entering and exiting on the same wing). And we want them to be more independent, where the dog turns himself away.
He came to the turn hand really nicely here and turned away when cued. Super! To get tighter turns, you can decelerate into it more. If you are moving at the same speed for all of it, he will also accelerate through it and be wider.
To make these into threadle wraps, slow it down and keep your feet facing straight the whole time (don’t turn back towards the previous line). And go slowly so he turns himself away to the wing. Threadle wraps are becoming one of the most popular handling ‘moves’ in agility right now, so we definitely want him to understand it.
Finding the jump after the tunnel went really well! He had no questions when you were way ahead and pretty far away laterally. He also did find the jump by driving ahead of you when you went closer to the tunnel. You can wait at the tunnel even longer so he has to go even further ahead 🙂 or move the jump even further ahead to see if he will leave you in the dust 🙂
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
Clearly the cat heard something about a mouse line, and came over to investigate LOL
I think what was happening in that first session with the timing was that you were waiting to see him to exit the wing to do the regular blinds. Your mechanics were still really good (he could see the connection very clearly) – but the timing did ask for the wider line. That timing works on the spins (FC on the wing then BC on the flat after exiting the wings) but the ‘regular’ blind timing can start as he approaches the wing.
That earlier timing was what you did in the 2nd part of the video (the next day) when you were doing 2 and 3 and 4 wings in a row 🙂 You were much earlier AND still had clear mechanics so the turns were immediately tighter. That last rep was my favorite: looking at 1:32 and especially 1:38 – fantastic timing! The rep at 1:38 had the blind starting before the he even got to the wing. He maintained commitment and had a super tight turn. YAY!!!! Absolutely nailed it!!!
I think your mechanics of the exit connection were very clean – they might have felt harder because there was a lot more running 🙂 But he had no questions about where to be.
Great job here! Onwards to the one jump games!
Tracy
Good morning! This is going to be the most boring feedback ever. You will be bored of hearing ‘awesome’, ‘fantastic’, ‘super’, etc. Ha!!
Both sessions were super!!!
The single wing blinds were awesome! And the 2 wing blinds were fantastic too! That is a hard game and I think there was only one moment where you had to convince your feet to turn away for the blind and not do a FC.
The FC to BC (spin) went great too – those looked really easy for you both.
And you nailed the exit line connection every.single.time. YAY!!!
>I had never heard of the mouse line before!
It is the European approach to blind crosses, particularly the Germans and the Swedish handlers like Jenny Damm who are incredible blind crossers!
The rest of the world including us Americans like to do elephant lines where we give the dog sooooooo much room… but that just creates a wide line and can confuse the dog about where we are going.
And on the soft turn game in the 2nd video, you can totally see Bazinga getting right on that mouse line. Great angle for the video! And as you got more comfy with the timing, you got earlier and earlier so she was able to see the exit line connection sooner – so the blinds got tighter and tighter. SUPER!!! She totally understood what to do. Yay!
Excellent work here! I think she is ready for the games posted yesterday (one jump and two jump). The one jump games require some big sending, so feel free to reward her for that as you start.
Have fun!
TracyOne more thought about connection:
with large dogs, we can sometimes point ahead of them and they still see the connection on the sending. But with small dogs, we can’t do that because the send arm blocks their view, and if we are looking ahead they can’t see our face or front of chest at all.T
Good morning!
Thank you for the video, it is really helpful!!
>I know… I am too late with the blinds:-(>
Actually, you were not too late with the blinds before the tunnel. I grabbed screenshots of each blind cross, and the blind cross was started early enough that I think Sammy knew it was coming and was able to be fast and make a tight turn.
Here are the screenshots:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1hS2CfqvgIFU6YpTf6shTQRlWCCjD_tJXIbtjTDmJzro/edit?usp=sharingSo the question really is: why did it feel hard to find the right timing with Sammy and too early with Jazz when you pulled him off?
I think it is the send to the wing that was making it hard to judge the timing. You can see that Sammy was giving feedback (jumping up).
What was happening was when Sammy was behind you, you were disconnecting and pointing forward with your arm. So the info changed: Sammy could not see your eyes or front of chest, and the line to the wing was not as clear (so he jumped up to tell you about it 🙂 ) I put screenshots of those moments as well: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1hS2CfqvgIFU6YpTf6shTQRlWCCjD_tJXIbtjTDmJzro/edit?usp=sharing
That was causing you to hold position there longer and not move away as early – which probably created a rushed or late feeling on the next part of the line (the blind at the tunnel).
I think if we can make the wing send smoother, you will see him better and have an easier time feeling strong with the timing.
So when he is behind you and you are sending to the wing, point your hand back to his eyes and look at his eyes. As you send, keep looking at his eyes and let your hand follow his nose as you step forward to the wing. That added connection on the send might feel weird at first but it will show him the line very clearly, so he will go directly to the wing. That should allow you to move away sooner to get ready for the blind cross.
Here is a video about what I mean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O55bUtOjp34
Let me know if that makes sense! I think your blind and your exit line connection were lovely, so now we can add in a smoother send to make it all feel easier 🙂
Great job!
Tracy
Hi!
The agility gods have marked the video as private so I can’t see it, maybe the universe is saying we can set that aside and do different things 🙂
>I took the tunnel out of the picture and was hoping to have a rock solid, stellar performance with great drive, interest and focus with the toy as reward. As you’ll see from the video – didn’t happen. She was interested in chasing the toy, but seemed confused when I tried to use it as a reward for the exercise.
>I like to identify patterns to help us sort things out – patterns of behavior are the way the dogs communicate so it is like trying to translate what she is saying.
So as an observation: she is playing happily with the toy outside of doing agility. And interest in the toy changes when she is asked to do some agility with the toy as the reward. Yay for the toy play! That is good!
>As you’ll see, she stalled out on the sequence. I’m sure the pointing with my hand (which turned my chest) doesn’t present the best handling cue,>
She definitely stalls out when the connection is not clear – that is a pretty typical young dog behavior. They either stall out to figure it out, or they bite us. I ‘ll take the stall LOL!
>Switched to food and was able to get her moving but not with the same drive that we have seen when on the toy.>
This is also a useful emerging pattern: playing with the toy before the session and then working for food during the session. from previous videos, I agree that she is not quite as driven for the food but that is fine for now!
We can develop a reinforcement system for her which will make the agility side of things easier. I think a bit of toy play before the session is great – get her pumped up! Then to actually train something: switch to yummy food. The toy can go up on a table or into a pocket or something. Do a couple of reps, then move away from the training setup and throw the toy to let her run around with it like a crazy beast LOL You can even end the session with the Most Beloved Ball – I know the ball is her highest value prize and playing with it at the end might be the best place for it now because we know she isn’t going to bring it back 🙂
So basically we are test driving different reinforcement strategies – and then can insert agility training into it. She is a smart, athletic pup so the agility training will be the easiest part when we get the reinforcement strategy in place.
All dogs require this at some point in training (adolescence, usually, sigh). And I think the potential knee/hip ouch compounds it because the toy is her favorite… but also the added speed and arousal from it adds more push off. That might feel physically weird/unstable, so she is avoiding it or even associating the feeling with the toy. That could help explain why she will play little a wild woman until you try to bring it into agility.
Food does not have the same drive and push off that the toy brings, so there is not as much of an association of any weird feeling with agility. So even though I don’t think food is higher value than toys for her in most of life… it is definitely higher value than toys in agility!
This appears to be the current hierarchy of reinforcement: in agility training, ball is highest value, food is currently 2nd highest, tugging is 3rd highest (and currently a no-go in training). I think this is different from the value hierarchy outside of agility. Definitely keeps us on our toes! But also normal to see these shifts in value. Since the ball is just too hard to use as the reinforcement right now… food is the winner! What is the most amazing food she can eat without getting GI upset? And tugging before the session and ending with the ball can sandwich the training with the passion for it that we want to build 🙂
>Probably need to give things a break as I am getting frustrated with not understanding how best to work with her. Spill over also from being frustrated with my own health situation.>
This is completely understandable!!! Training young dogs already has plenty of challenges, and you are balancing soooo much right now. We will approach Jazz’s training as a series of questions to ask her and try to translate her answers. We just need to crack the code! And the dogs that are harder to sort out early in life always end up being the BEST teammates 🙂 so that is what we can keep looking forward at.
> Would like to keep working with her on this, but not sure how best to proceed.>
Let’s play with the reinforcement hierarchy and see what she says about it. You can try this:
* Play with a toy, for maybe 15 seconds.
* Switch to food (the yummiest possible), toy goes away. She might be looking for the toy and that is GREAT because we want her to want it… but don’t bring it back out
* Train a short session of something where she can offer behavior and not rely on handling connection. Running contact foundation is a fun one to do with food, or you can even just do a bit of barrel wrapping where she offers and then you do the FC and run away with a food reward. Anything where she gets to solve the puzzle – those are her favorites 🙂
* After about a minute, end the training. Move away from the setup and either throw the toy for her to zoom around with, or whip out the ball and enjoy her party-of-one 🙂
And let me know! I am sure Jazz with provide feedback and we just need to translate it.
Tracy
Good morning!
>Are last try was perfect, but my tripod blew over>
Eek! I hate when that happens!!
He is definitely getting the idea here! LOTS more successes getting both of those jumps in a row with you moving. Big difference!
He seems very locked into reward placement – like when you wanted to start from the tunnel but he kept going back to the jumps because he had been rewarded there. I think that is where we can make the next big progress:
Rather than have you throw the reward, let’s do a session or two with a placed reward out on the line. It can be a big, obvious toy or a manners minder. I prefer a manners minder because you can control it more than a toy.
You can start with the MM placed between the 2 jumps. Then if he is locking onto it, you can move it back foot by foot from the landing side of the 1st jump slowly to the takeoff of the 2nd jump then gradually to the landing side of the 2nd jump. His success rate will tell you how quickly to move it back.
If you have someone to train with, you can have them stand out there with a toy on a line so it is long and can be dragged – when he locks onto the first jump, they can start moving forward and dragging the toy as the reward.
These 2 ideas will get him looking at the line and at the jumps… and not at you moving or you throwing the reward.
I do think your movement is part of his question: When he had a lot of speed and you moved forward without a lot of connection, he tended to run around 1 or both jumps especially after the tunnel. So there is an element of him trying to watch you. So yes, connect a little more but also we can shift his focus to the line with a placed reward.
This is a lot of running for him and also brain work 🙂 So divide the session length here into thirds with a timer so he does a few minutes then gets a break. He took off at about 5:25 and after it – that might have been his way of asking for a break when he kept leaving with the toy and you had to go get him. I don’t think it as a retrieve question, it was more that he needed a break. He did come back to it with you but the success rate was dropping (more errors) so more breaks will help that.
And to change it up:you can switch sides and try the 2 jump line from the tunnel with him on your left. That will let us see if there is any side preference at play here too.
Great job! Let me know how he does with the placed reward!
Tracy
Hello and welcome! I can’t believe she is only 9 months old – she has always been so mature!
Yay for the pad healing up but darn it about the toe! She was moving well in the video here so hopefully it was nothing too bad.
The session went really well, she seemed to have no questions about finding the jump with you moving. As soon as you feel her toe is ready and you can put a bar in, you can add more distance (try 15 feet at first) and both of you can run! I think she will love the running 🙂 And yes, use a get it cue – but to protect her toe for now, it is also totally fine if you have a manners minder or food bowl out there that she can focus on and will decelerate to get the cookies (rather than potentially jam her toe getting a thrown treat).
Great job here!!!
Tracy
