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Hi!
> She drives much better but I’m not sure about leaving a toy.>
I agree, she does love the thrown toy: ball is LIFE! 🙂 But she also watches it more, especially on the rear crosses. You can try your two toy idea of leaving one on the ground and using the 2nd one to tug her back to the start spot (and I have another idea for the rear cross game).
> I kept the blooper in the tape>
That was pretty funny 🙂 She didn’t seem to mind at all though LOL!
The jump grid for the ball was hard, in terms of holding the stay 🙂 Nice job rewarding the stay with it – she did a really good jb holdin the stay as the session went along! Using it as a thrown reward for the grid worked for this grid but it might get harder as the jumping gets more complex: she was balanced in her movement here but didn’t have to jump. So you can raise the bars by 2 inches, and go back to the MM or a less exciting dragging toy as the reward as the bars get a little higher 🙂
On the rear crosses she is finding the jump but looking at the ball: two suggestions for you!
When the ball is in the dog-side arm, she is looking at it until you throw it (then chasing it over the jump). So try having it in the opposite hand as you move up the line, so it is harder for her to visually lock on to. Then, don’t throw it until after she turns to lok at the jump. That way the ball will be the reward for looking at & driving to the jump. If she is looking at it until you throw, the ball becomes the cue to take the jump – and we want your motion to be the cue.
On the “go” reps where you want her to go straight and not do a rear cross, you can throw the ball as soon as she looks at the jump.
On the rear cross reps, you can throw at the similar timing but throw towards the direction you are rear crossing to (not to the straight line). That way, as you move to the center of the jump to cue the rear cross, she will take the jump and turn the new direction.
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
This went really well too! The angles jumps on the ladder grid were not trouble at all for him, so you can angle them even more 🙂 And as with the regular ladder grid, you can change to the moving target reward to get even more power.The zig zags are looking very strong as well. Super! He was able to easily shift back & forth in both directions. You can lead all the way out to the 3rd wing and see if he can follows the cues and make the adjustment with you out there 🙂 And it that goes well, you can add a 4th wing and lead all the way out to it.
Another option to add challenge is, using 3 wings, move them closer together so they are 6 or 7 feet apart: how fast can he shift back and forth? It adds challenge for him to go faster and for you to cue it all faster 🙂
Great job!
Tracy
Hi!
This is going well! He did really well with the line here – it totally went according to plan 🙂 What was the distance? You can now use the moving target/dragging toy to get even more power. We might need to open up the distances by 6 inches or so, because the moving target will get even more power from his hind end.
Only one suggestion: when you lead out, face forward a bit more – look back enough to be sure he hasn’t broken the stay, but keep your feet facing forward. That way you won’t end up fully facing him, which can cue a collection we don’t want here.
Great job!
Onwards to the angles!Tracy
Hi!
This is totally coming along nicely! Yay! There is plenty more success here! I think more acceleration will help: wait til he just ablout finishes the wing wrap, then jog up the line to the center of the bar (you can go faster when your ankle is back to 100% :)) If you move away from the wing too soon at this stage, you will end up having to decelerate and maybe face straight so he has room to get past you, which can cause questions. On the left turns at 3:30 for example, you turned straight to get him past you so he was turning to his right. This is where staying at the wing til he just about finishes the wrap will really help, because moving forward will be the cue to drive ahead to teh jump.
He was doing well finding the jump – keep throwing the reward past the jump so he takes it after the RC and doesn’t turn too tight 🙂
And mix in lots of go reps, as that will keep him driving forward to the jump so he doesn’t start to think too much about the turns.
>Dublin was way more distracted and wasn’t into the play as much. >
Part of this might have been because you are not fully running yet, so mixing in lots of the GO reps will really help keep him jazzed up. And part of this might also be the poo on the line LOL But also, part of it (especially at the end inthe last 30 seconds or so when he was definitely a little distracted) might have been the background noise – there were a ton of sirens! You probably didn’t hear them but his brain probably did and had a little trouble processing it. No worries, that was an unusual amount of noise 🙂
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi! These went really well! Little details on each to see where they can be faster or tighter 🙂
Pop Out 1: This looked strong!
> I think there was a bar tick in pop out 1 on 7.>
Yes – at :13 on jump 7, as soon as he turns his head to the jump you can start moving to jump 8, You moved backwards a few steps, so he was not sure how to set up the jump there and ticked the bar.
You can also play with sending him to tunnel #5 then accelerating away to get a blind cross between 6 and 7 to push to the backside of 7.
Pop out 2 – nice run here! Wrapping the inside of 1 worked but it causes a wider line to 2. You can line him up on a slice or send him to the other side of 1, so he slices it and lands facing 2.
You can add more connection to him on the exit of the 5 tunnel at :29 through the serpy 6-7-8-9 line so he doesn’t glance up at you. Lokoing at him more will allow him to look forward at his line more.
Pop out 3 – another nice run!
Because 7 is on the front side of the jump (instead of the backside) and the from the tunnel exit points more to the backside, you can add in calling him before he enters the tunnel and connect more to him on the tunnel exit so he doesn’t have a question about the next jump.He is really reading the threadle wrap cues brilliantly! So at 1:01 ehen he looked at the threadle wrap jump, you can tae off for the next line so he can chase you and turn on all the speed 🙂
Or, play with a blind cross on the landing side of to push to the backside. I am not sure that this will be a better or faster option here than the threadle wrap, but it is worth a try to see how it goes.
Great job!!
Tracy
Good morning! How cool is this!!!! Gives me goosebumps!
>She was purely focused on me and preformed fantastic. First time on turf, too. >
She was great! And she did really well on the turf – it looks like she was sorting out the striding but able to turn really well and also keep the bars up!
I love how he got you doing some cool blinds, and I love her confidence in tugging with him 🙂 The layering looked awesome and she was able to find the tight turns really well too, like the threadle wraps!
>I realize I really hunch over when giving her cues which really pushes her away.>
You were pretty upright here in a good way – you were able to get where you needed to be while maintaining connection. If you are feeling hunched, it is possible that you are over-helping with the cues? And that accidentally cues her to move forward or laterally away. On these sequences, you were mainly just running, super connected, trusting her lines (I am sure he was yelling RUN RUN RUN hahaha) and only using your arms when you needed to cue a specific turn. Fantastic!
I am so glad you had a super successful and fun time 🙂 Yay!!!!
Tracy
Good morning!
> I love this idea. The instructor would be willing to help with this. Definitely want to do it earlier in class so he’s fresh and making better decisions.>
Let me know how it goes! Start far enough away that it is not that hard to chase you for the reward. And remember that the initial stages of the Leash Off Engagement On game are not decision-based. They are full on classical conditioning: Leash off, then you explode into an immediate party of toys/treats and moving away from the other person. You can even start it by just reaching for the leash or touching it then partying, the leash doesn’t even need to come off at first.
>In class, after his turn he goes out to the car, has water and goes in his crate.>
A nice rest spot 🙂
> When the dog ahead of him goes into the ring, I get him and we station (or last night worked on the crate). >
If he gets 3 turns in class, maybe skip the station or crate before the last turn, to save up some brain juice for the turn? Do a bit of the normal routine or ritual, just a few seconds, but nothing extended.
>I have not seen any behavioral fallout from going to class – he’s not extra _____ (fill in the blank) on Tuesdays. He’s always extra, but not abnormally so following class.>
This is good feedback from him, behaviorally. You might even start to see him being extra happy following classes 🙂
The mental stamina will increase as he matures, and also it sounds like the lead up to class is just fine in terms of things being normal life and nothing exhausting.>I’m so happy this class as NFC plan is working out! In January he could barely go into OTR let alone take an actual class with dogs in the other ring. He’s really made huge progress in his life skills (that has been our main focus since last winter).>
He has made HUGE progress!! Of course, the are always little speed bumps in training but you are really splitting the behaviors into tiny steps so you are less likely to experience setbacks. And your focus on life skills and transferring those skills to sport is the key: sport skills are relatively easy to train when the other skills of being a functional member of society are in place 🙂
Keep me posted!
Tracy
Hi!
>you hit the nail on the head with one big swing- the echo. I brought Chase to class today because the dog that barks wasn’t there , group was small and Bella was there. >
I can imagine it is actually painful to be in there with a barking dog. Maybe skip that building for now unless it is quiet, until the sound dampeners are in? It seems like he is getting more and more sensitized to it. He is at that adolescent age where sound sensitivity can actually be increased and solidified with repeated exposures. And it runs the risk of pairing the sensitivity/concern with other dogs, because it happens the most when there is barking. That would explain a lot of his struggles in there that you don’t see in the other building. And we don’t want to generalize it, so skip it entirely for now. Guarantee the quiet or don’t risk it (it was boomy in there even without the other dogs barking).
> Eating fried chicken and almost smiling.>
I also smile when I eat fried chicken!!!
> The party is what got him when the entire group did it. It was loud and the ears pinned and he didn’t immediately bolt he just melted and oozed with I’m about a minute of that and then he was done. And I think with the 10 dogs in a handling class the noise the clapping. Just way way too much!!>
Way.Too.Much. He doesn’t really seem to be a belter in terms of stress response, he seems to be more of a freezer which is why you saw the ‘melt’. Poor dude! So yes, skip it entirely for now until he can be in a place where the sound won’t literally hurt his ears. Trying to ‘work’ through it can actually make it a lot worse.
>Remote at home is good. Which is why I didn’t play it there so I’ll change it up and maybe try it in different areas of my yard>
Glad it is good at home! The question in the agility ring might have to do with with learning history there, which made it harder. You can try it with food at first, which is probably a different learning history and also less exciting 🙂
Keep me posted!
Tracy
Good morning!
>the less we trust our training, the more we flap our arms.>
This made me laugh because it is SO TRUE for all of us LOL!!!! But also, I didn’t think your arms were a problem here 🙂
>I’m not sure if I’ve set Rou up with jumps 20’ apart and I’m not sure why I didn’t start closer and go from there.>
I think the distance worked well here – you need the space to be able to execute the rear crosses on time. Any closer and it might be too hard to show the info that quickly because she is tall and fast.
Driving ahead to the MM was fine, she said, as long as you continued to move. But I agree, the MM seems to be ‘just ok’ for her. You can pump up the value for it by pairing it with something she really loves: after she gets her treat from the MM, she can get a toy from you. That way, the MM takes on more value thanks to the toy, and you can use it as the reward target. It is a great reward target because she will use it as a focal point *without* splatting her body like she might do if you are throwing or placing a toy or ball.
For the rear crosses: we can go to the next steps since she was driving ahead and you were able to change sides. The Go verbal is best for the totally straight lines, so the rear cross verbal can be a left or right now (or a ’switch’ type of verbal to indicate a rear cross, if you prefer that).
And you can move the MM over to be on the turn line that the RC produces, so she reads the side change as a turn cue.
And after a session or two of that… we will fade out the MM and see if she can drive ahead and do the RCs without the MM out there on the line.
Great job here!!
Tracy
Good morning!
Training this in the morning looked like it was nice and cool out, so the temperatures were not an issue for them. Yay!Looking at Lily’s videos:
>Tried a couple different toys and had both girls out together during the runs. Lily is still a little distracted by the toys.>
This was hard for her – a true ‘stack’! The stuff on the ground was challenging and made it harder for her to look for obstacles as you moved long the line). Places where she would normally commit without a question were places she had a question.
When you first started, her very first response was to go check out the new distraction on the ground. So one thing that you can do is bring her to jump 1 on a leash, then get some immediate rewards in for the Leash Off, Engagement On game, as well as rewarding the first jump so she gets rewards for *not* going to check out the distractions. And with more experience, you can delay that initial reinforcement and also add in the remote reinforcement so she is doing it all without rewards in your hands or pockets 🙂
She didn’t seem distracted by having Rosie out there but it was one more thing her brain had to process 🙂
Looking at the dog walk:
She might think that your hand cues or position are the cues about what to do on the bottom of the DW. She was looking at you coming down the dog walk – on the first video at :25 you can see her looking at your right hand as she jumped over the contact.At :39 she was still looking at you but you were further ahead and closer to the down ramp so she did get through the contact zone.
Then when she stalled out at 1:07 – she had done a few reps of the DW but hadn’t gotten rewarded plus there was a lot of distraction in the environment. So if she is not 100% sure of what to do without you there and there is a ton of distraction… she stops and waits for more info.
It was easier when there were rewards in your hand because she was locking on the reward as you got your hand there to help her on the DW.
On the 2nd video – she opted out and didn’t take the jump after the first DW. Yes, there might be a distraction there (Rosie also said something smelled good!) but I think this has to do with her not being sure what the cue is and how to do it independently. Maybe she thinks your hand cue or the presence of the reward is the cue? She ignored the distraction there earlier in the sessions so it might be more about her to being totally sure about the end behavior.
On thing you can do is help her look forward through the down contact and not at you (and not need you to get your hand in there to reward) is to give her a destination on the ground after the dog walk. It can be a foot target, the size of a dish towel or an 8.5”x11” piece of paper 🙂 And it can be 3 or 4 feet past the dog walk exit. She would run down the plank to her foot target: then you can throw a reward to her. That way she is not looking for your position or the treats while doing the DW, and the target should draw her through the yellow contact zone.
Plus, the visual of the target will help override the visual of the distractions. And it is very easy to use in different places and easy to fade by making it smaller and smaller 🙂 She probably has some experience with running to a target already, so I think this will be easy for her! You can start her on the down ramp and just do a few sends from the ramp to the target and see how it goes as she figures it out.
Rosie was a real pro, ignoring all of the distractions during the full run! Good girl! Yes, she said something smelled interesting at the bottom of the dog walk on one rep but she ignored it for the rest. Yay! The distractions on the ground were not an issue at all. Good girl!
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
All of these pop outs went really well! There is one common theme in all 3 of them where you can get even more speed: send to the tunnel then take off up the next line 🙂 He loves to chase you when you are driving ahead, so sending to the tunnels here to get ahead will challenge you to stay conencted and challenge him to find the line.
On pop out 4: you can add in a send to the 5 tunnel and get a blind on the exit to show him the line to 6. Setting up the rear cross there added a lot of decel, so he collected more than he needed to. He really like the threadle wrap on 9 where you got way ahead for the 10 tunnel – super speedy!
PO 5 – you can send to 4 and get ahead for 5, pushing to the backside at 7. You can also send to 10 and blind cross the exit to show a push wrap, which I think will be faster than the threadle there.
PO 6 – send to 4 and 10 then take off especially on the big closing line 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think,
Tracy
Hi!
>Watched a lot of the videos this weekend. I was happy to discover that I already have been doing an engaged chill type behavior with him (without knowing).>
This is awesome! The natural chill behavior is lovely 🙂 Definitely keep doing that! And you should teach him the more active version based off the up and down game, for higher intensity moments where you can see he needs to chill but isn’t chilling, so you can start the game to help.
>When I take the leash off for the engagement game, should I be using his marker that food is coming to him?>
It depends on the when you are delivering the food. In the earliest stages of the game, we are taking more of a classical conditioning approach: immediate presentations of the food or toy, no behavior response needed. There is nothing to mark.
As you build on the game and begin to wait for a response: yes, that is when you can add a marker because you are marking the engagement.
> I did this leash off, engagement on last night in class. He is all business as soon as he gets in the ring, so he did not have any problems with this game. Offered the focus immediately. Since he was doing well, I also did it with setting him up in front of a jump and then taking the jump.>
Fantastic!!!!! This is a good one to do near strange people to get him to overcome the approach response: go near a person (tell the person you are doing this!) and use the earliest steps: leash off and you immediately take off running the other direction (away from the person) and delivering rewards. This can condition a turn-away or ignore-the-person response, which is always a good thing.
>He had another great class last night. I did 2 bowls on his first turn. Then did the leash off engagement, and some obstacles. He even worked on his teeter a little and it was on the fence between the 2 rings. Weave poles also were great. And his start lines have been terrific.>
This is freakin’ awesome! Woohoooo!!!
>I did notice that on his last turn, the mental fatigue was real, so we kept it much simpler. I’m thinking that on those last turns I should just do some pattern games if I am going to do anything.>
Good for you to notice. What is he doing between turns, in terms of recovery to be able to extend his mental stamina? And what is he doing the day(s) leading up to class? You might need to plan extra rest/sleep/food and limit work, and see how that sets up for the mental stamina.
>I also started “project soft crate”. I don’t have my cardboard barrier yet, but I was sitting right next to him and the door was open most of the time – like a transition from his cot. He did well. I am definitely going to get the barrier.>
Great, sounds like things are moving along nicely!
>Question on the remote reinforcement – I’ve done a fair amount at home (and he had done it in previous classes). Is it ok to start the baby steps in the ring at class? Set my toy/treats on a chair in the ring, take a few steps away and mark? Then start the progression in class like you do at home? If this is a good plan, I can start work on it next week in class.>
Yes – if he has a solid history of success elsewhere, you can take the baby steps into the ring. I would leave the leash on at first so there are no unexpected surprises from other people or dogs in that environment, but it sounds like he is ready for it in class 🙂
Thanks for the update! He is doing GREAT!
Tracy
Hi!
>The challenge with julee is if she’s loose he will just herd her especially if she’s not acknowledging him. >
Leashes 🙂 She can greet the person on leash, and he can see her doing it.
>Other than a life skill so to speak, anything I need to do with the leash off engage to really solidify it?>
The next steps are in the Launch webinar and in the game here:
– continue to delay the reward til after the offered engagement, gradually adding more and more delay and praise and moving to a different stop. You had some delay happening in the video here and he did well
– do it with the reward *not* visible (and without playing before the leash comes off) so the visible reward doesn’t become a context cue for engagement
– get him to offer sticking his own head back into the leash (for end of run)
– incorporating it into everything, everywhere, not just when training LOEO.>Remote reinforcement didn’t go swimmingly. Poor set up.>
First question: how is this going *outside* of the agility environment? At home, in the kitchen, with treats, etc. Training it in the agility environment like this is too much of a context change and it was too hard, especially with the toy as you mentioned. He didn’t ‘recognize’ the game and needed a lot of help, which means it needs to be more fluent in simpler environments and with lower value rewards.
Also, when you brought him in on leash, you can change the order of festivities: put the toy down but don’t take the leash off. This is more like what happens when entering the ring (toy stays in one spot, leash stays on).
> He often just stands and observes so I didn’t know how to make him move with me or if he even needed to as long as he wasn’t swiping the toy. It was like an akcward first date>
Because he didn’t recognize the game, he was standing there asking questions. This is something you can play outside the ring, or out of the car in the parking lot, at home, etc – and you will see him recognize the game: the human places the thing down and walks away, which is the cue to go with her. When he starts moving away from it very easily and you can also get him to do simple behaviors, that is when you can bring it into the actual ring and use treats to get it going in there too.
Nice work here!
Tracy
Hi!
>I tried the chill game in the crating area but over by a wall where there were no crates and no people or dogs close by. All I got was whining. He did not understand why I was standing there and we were not “doing” anything.>
Which game did you use, specifically? If it was the ‘got chill’ version of it where he was just standing there… it makes sense he would whine because he has no chill in that environment. You would need to build it up in much easier environments – even being in the crating area at a trial is very stimulating.
Or, was it the “got NO chill” version, where you are doing the up and down game and getting progressively slower and slower… this is going to be the more successful game for him. Start with a fast rhythm of up and down, then slow it down very gradually as you engage less. If you slow it down toooooo much or want him to just stand there – it is too early in the progression of the game, so the game needs to move a little faster. And also, this is something to get really fluent at home and in quieter places before going to a trial.
> I did not spend too much time doing this as the environment was just too stimulating for him to “chill”.>
I think waiting for him to chill will not work, so using the up and down game to gradually get the chill happening is the better approach.
>Also, I hope this is just an adolescent phase but, um, how to say this…he is showing his male part big time when meeting people. OMG. Also, he has never learned how to control his mouth. Wants to bite clothing or going at people who try to pet him (husband included…STILL) with an open mouth…not with the intention to bite but playful. If the right person works with him and makes a fist so he can’t grab hands and then reverts to licks, we praise him for that. Husband is working on that too and once he calms down, he is better. This dog may never get a CGC!>
I think at this stage he can learn to be more neutral around people, and that will come from them *not* approaching and directly interacting. If he is mouthing clothing or hands, they should not be petting him. Ask people to just ignore him while you are rewarding him for sitting or standing near you, or playing with a toy. Having him play bite then lick then getting praised is not doing the trick, so move to a more neutral basic ignoring of people. For dog sports, we really want him to ignore them anyway so tell people they are helping your training by NOT petting him or getting too close to him (people like to help, but be firm about it!) And your husband can also ignore him unless he is very settled, then he can be petted. But if there is mouthing or clothes grabbing, have your husband just walk away, very neutral.
This will all be very easy for Brioche and very hard for all the humans LOL so you will need to be very strict with the humans 🙂
Keep me posted!
Tracy
