Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Good morning!
This session looked good! We don’t see a lot of speed in the downhills here because there is no momentum to start, so what I look for is the dog driving to the end and not stopping early. He was great! So let’s plan for the next steps:
Talk to me about the Tip Assist device: a couple of questions. Is there a way to remove the tall arms or make them shorter? We want to be incremental about fading them because they are a visual aid he might be using and taking them out entirely might be too big of a leap.
If they cannot be shortened, then we can replace the tip assist with something else for the board to land on, like a block of some sort with the target on it? What do you have that will hold the teeter, isn’t too tall or noise, and the target can be attached to?And the other question – it looks like the board is very close to the ground now (SUPER YAY!) so as soon as we transition the visual away from the Tip Assist and he is producing the same behavior (running down to a block or something with the loaded target), then we can go to the next steps and get him running to the ground and the end position. Yay! It is a big step forward to the finished behavior, so I want to make sure we don’t skip the steps of transitioning away from the Tip Assist. Let me know what you think and we will get it going.,
Great job!!!
TracyGood morning! Excellent news about the wobble board 🙂 And letting him watch his sister do it is a fun way to raise arousal!
If you have access to a tunnel or something near the teeter, you can let him watch his sister run through the tunnel a few times (not the teeter, just the tunnel) and then bring Summit out to his teeter one hit wonder rep. That can get him really stimulated and he might be less concerned about the board!Also excellent news about the bang game!!! Super! Keep playing this, adding more tip very incrementally with lots of high value, one hit wonder sessions, mixed in with tunnels and other fast and fun things he loves 🙂 You can start the elevator game but do it with only the tiniest bit of tip, maybe half and inch. The elevator game and bang game tracks can go a long way to helping him love the teeter.
About the level non-moving teeter: it is totally normal that the different trackers progress forward at different rates. It sounds like the wobble board and bang game are progressing really nicely! So on the full board – how tall is it? One thing you can do is lower it – get it as low as you can, so he is going back and forth only a couple of inches off the ground, and teach him the hop-on, turn around, hop-off game there. My guess is he does not yet love that foundation plankrobatics game? So starting there on a really low board can help break through to more and more confidence. Then we can look at running him across the lowest possible board, doing something line tunnel-low board-tunnel.
Let me know what you think! He is making progress so we will keep finding the ways to help him 🙂 Great job!!!
TracyHi! Glad to hear about the Zoom call – trying to find a day/time for it has been challenging!!
And I think you will find the next package is generally a continuation of what you are already doing with the addition of one new game that is not too challenging to add (and similar to something he did in puppy class). This week’s stuff and the last set of games in 2 weeks are all about putting it together and taking it different places, so it is now just a matter of working very progressively. I figure we will be working here in the Forum until the end of May, at least, so no one feels rushed 🙂
Speaking of working progressively, nice job on the target fading! He didn’t seem to have any questions about the smaller target with all the challenges and just as I was thinking you probably should make the target smaller… you did. And he again had no problems. He was slowing down a bit, but I think that might have been fatigue – the teeter work is entering the same stage as the weaves work where the concussion on the body as the teeter lands coupled with the core strength required is a lot on young dogs (or any dogs) – so one start to limit your reps, I would say no more than 10 per session, and sessions on rotating days. (I give the teeter a lot of respect once it really starts dropping – the PT people say the teeter is one of the last obstacles to put the dog on when rehabbing an injury – along with the weaves. LOL!). So since he has the idea really nicely, you can fade the target more and do fewer reps with more breaks in between. The sliding was all good and I don’t think he cared when the plank slipped off the boss board – it added very true to life teeter movement LOL!
The Elevator Game is going well!!! I agree that the turkey hot dogs made for smoother mechanics – when the cream cheese was above his head, he was getting the idea to NOT look at it and to look forward instead, but his head was in a better spot with the pre-placed treats. I also like that he was starting to look forward and even dip into the down during the countdown!! That is what we want! Good job getting him right to the end of the board and getting the mechanics to feel smoother.
About holding his collar – I couldn’t tell if he was noodling with that because he didn’t want to be touched, or if he thought the cream cheese was there? But a gentle hand on collar or on his back is a good stabilizer and I think he was fine with it overall.
The only nit pick on the mechanics is about the words: try to say the target word and then drop the board (rather than simultaneously) so it is more of a cue/antecedent. And also be sure to use your release words/cookie markers and don’t release on “yes” (we all get into that habit, I constantly catch myself LOL!)For the next elevator games – as with targeting, this game gets pretty concussive now, so limit reps to 8 to 10 at most.
I suggest doing it at this tip first with you standing as long as it won’t kill your back to bend over a bit). Then with this tip – fade the pre-placed treats. Then, over the next several sessions, add more tip and each time you add tip, you can start with the pre-placed treats as a reminder about where to look. This builds into the Elevator Part 2 from yesterday pretty easily 🙂Nice work here!! Let me know what you think!
TracyOMG Nuptse, he was so funny on the first rep! I think he forgot a little of the mountain climbers then tried to fix it. Ha! But then he was perfect. The good news is that he seems to have become fearless about the teeter!! And he was lining himself up perfectly. You can fade those guides by making them shorter (or replacing them with shorter things). The only thing I would not want to use are number cones, as they will almost never right at the end of the board and I don’t want Nuptse to think that he needs to cue off the location of the number cone 🙂
Great job!!!!!
TracyGood morning!
This looks great – I loved the squiggly toy distraction on your plank work!!
Added bonus: not really in this class, but I figure he can try it… do the plank work like that with you running past and a jump right there. Then do it with a tunnel right there 🙂 You can put the target back in to get it start then fade the target. The goal is to help him love to stop in position even with the temptation of an obstacle right ahead. It can be pretty close, like 4 or 5 feet (or less – I worked up to having the tunnel 6 inches away for one of my older, tunnel-loving dogs :))The bang game also looks great! You can add to this a bit by putting a wing where the cookie bucket it, then the cookie bucket is several feet past the wing. Then it can be a mini sequence of bang game, release to wrap the wing, then on to the cookie bucket. The goal is similar to my suggestion above in terms of helping to solidify the stop in the face of other obstacles, and also it will allow you to start fading the visual of the cookie bucket.
let me know if this all makes sense, I might be under-caffeinated 🙂 Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
The minny pinny games are for the soft turns, not wraps (I also use left/right for my soft turns and different noises for each wrap).
It builds off of the MaxPup 1 lesson here:
https://agility-u.com/lesson/bending-and-the-left-right-minny-pinny-2/Tracy
Hi!
>>My “ai-ai-ai” verbal is supposed to be for food from my hand, and “get it” is supposed to be for a reward thrown ahead. In our previous session, as you noted, I was using ai-ai-ai too early, and it was confused with the “Yes” marker for the wrap. I am noticing these timing issues and working to clean them up. At this point, because I’ve been adding some new verbals into the mix, some are instinctive and some aren’t quite there yet. But I do understand and agree with what you’re saying, and am working toward clarity.>>
Training mechanics are the hardest part of it all. I distinctly remember having to work on mechanics under supervision until deemed worthy, before being allowed anywhere near the animals! Makes me laugh to look at the first day of the first chicken camp and remember that we were not allowed to work the chickens. We spent the day working out the mechanics. Clarity is hard! And I really appreciate the times when my dogs let me be not so clear 🙂
>>Your feedback on what to do when he says “nope!” is so helpful. I’ve been torn about this in these moments. >>>
This is the most difficult question in animal training: what to do in this moment!
>>I don’t like feeling like I’m pleading with him for engagement. I just don’t think that is productive for our relationship. >>
Agree! I didn’t think you were pleading. You can move to a different spot and ask a different question to see if engagement is possible. For example – you asked if he was ready for another wing wrap. He said nope. Ok, cool. You can ask again – if he still says nope, you can ask him if he is available for a spin or high five or something goofy. Yes? Cool! Here is a toy or cookie. Then ask another question to see if you can get engagement enough to keep going, or end the session. If you ask a different question and he still says nope -also cool, end the session, review the video, make a plan, phone a friend LOL
>>I have had some success with switching things up, but not 100% of the time.
I think the most helpful thing ever is a session timer. Either 60 seconds, or 5 treats for example. If I had to choose the one thing that universally caused the dog to offer a ‘nope’ answer, it is consistently that sessions went to long for the dog’s internal state.
>> And that “finish on a positive” note adage has been getting me stuck.
That is old school dog trainer “conventional wisdom” also known as bull sh*ttery that is unsupported by data or studies LOL! And it can wreak havoc on an otherwise good session.
>>I’ve been thinking about all of this a lot lately and how Phyzz and I have marched to our own timeline in a lot of ways over the years and he is still very competitive. >>
1000% true!
>>This helps me to not sweat it when WM’s training doesn’t always progress in a “linear” fashion.
Correct! Puppy training is never linear, even though social media certainly makes it look that way. All of the training is up and down back and forth all the time 🙂
>> There is some scientific evidence about epigenetics contributing to variation in heat tolerance phenotypes among animals, such that tolerance for heat could be enhanced over time through multigenerational exposure. With WM, acclimation to heat may take longer to develop if he doesn’t have as much of a genetic foundation for heat tolerance.>>
That is fascinating!!!! It could explain why my Voodoo has such good heat regulation compared to other all-black dogs that I know.
T
Hi!
Very nice session here! He did well with everything, especially those rear crosses! The only thing he had trouble with was the blind cross at the very end, that distracted him and he hit poles 3-4. Definitely something to revisit!He is easily striding poles 1-2, but poles 3-4 are a little too open for him to stride with the bounce, so close them up a little more – only enough to produce the bounce.
I think you can do that before moving the closer and I bet he will be fine when they are closer too. Yay!
For the Find ‘Em game, I meant this one, sorry for the confusion:
https://agility-u.com/lesson/find-e-track-2x2s-game-2/
Great job here! Have fun!
TracyHi!
>>So I must apologize for posting the wrong video in my last post. That last one with the 2x2s was the same as my previous post, which you had already given my feedback on. So you must have been wondering why i was still using the clicker, when you had advised me not to use for these exercises>>
Ha! I thought it was vaguely familiar and that you had mentioned working on one side but the video showed the other…. but I figured I just needed more coffee hahaha!!!
On both of these videos, lots of good stuff! One suggestion for both of them, in terms of motion:
When you run really fast, she has questions: either hitting the poles on the right side sends (2x2s) or missing entries on the left side sends (channels). To help her, you slow all the way down and she gets it. But I think we can meet her in the middle so instead of slowing all the way down, show her parts of the running without making it too stimulating: fake running!
For example, pumping your arms really fast like you are running, but you are just walking (you might see me do this with my medium sized black pup, who finds running really stimulating). Or leaning forward. Or walking slowly but praising (she sometimes rushes on the 2x2s when you praise her and hits the poles).I think showing her fast running in little bits of it will allow you to build up to the real fast running without the errors. Let me know if that makes sense, or if I need more coffee hahaha!!!
Otherwise, I think she is doing great!! For the 2x2s, she is doing really nicely with the meatball throwing: left side looks great ! She sometimes hits the poles on the right side, so be relatively quiet and show some fake running there. But I think you tighten up poles 3-4 so they are 2&8 for a bit, then 1&7.
Channels are also looking good – yes, add the crazier handling on the open poles when you get a change. Separately, on 6 poles, you can start to tighten them a bit too!
And for both the channels and the 2x2s, you can add in the Find Em game from the wings 🙂
Great job!
TracyHA! The rolling at the end was so funny!
Straight entries are like the tighty whities of weave training… NOT sexy at all but they get used the most and end up being very comfortable. They are pretty challenging too!
So – you can do a couple of things to help. You can move poles 3-4 a little further away so they are less distracting. And you can be in motion the whole time, but not as fast. I like to do the straight entries from wing wraps, so there is some speed in there and the dog learns to go fast then collect.And yes, be patient on your toy throws 🙂 I think you are better with the harder entries because you work them more, so do a couple of sessions of only straight-ish entries 🙂 to balance the rate of success there.
Then you can start angling poles 3-4 too! Yay!>>Overall his speed looks pretty good even with a few failures.
I agree! He is looking good!
>>I do feel like his head is popping up some anticipating the reward. It could also be because the second poles are open and he’s not having to bend his body as much?>>
Yes, I think that was it – poles 304 are really easy right now so he is just looking for the toy. That will go away as poles 3-4 angle a bit 🙂
Nice work here! Go get your tighty whities in shape! And I really hope you know what tighty whities are and it is not just a Northeast thing hahaha!
TracyI feel that, about the impulse control!!! He is SO TALENTED which is why it is important to go slowly and protect his gains. Things get very exciting in the last games package and it will also include a plan to return to the ring 🙂
Hi!
>>Rusey was feeling very fast!
To be honest, I thought the video was in fast forward for a moment and had to check. She was FAST and also nice and tight! When connecting with the opposite arm, keep it close to you and don’t move it (I often touch my opposite hip with it) – that way it will open up the connection but won’t look the same as a threadle arm.
I think the Smileys look great!!!! Only one suggestion: because I know your goal is tighter turns on course, change how you reinforce: rather than throw the reward so she explodes to it as you decelerate… keep running and make her chase you out of the turn for it. That changes her focus to driving to you, which will improve turns 🙂On the tunnel exits, I see what you mean about her exiting the tunnels like a rocket! I think the first left verbal cue was perhaps a little late, but even when they were earlier she was still not as tight as we want. I think 2 things were happening:
first, I know I said give the verbal when the dog is about a metre from the tunnel, and I think that is what you were doing. But some dogs need it more like 2 or 3 metres from the tunnel. My Voodoo (the black Border Collie – Croatian Sheepdog mix) is very “forward” so he gets his tunnel turn cues at least 6 metres sometimes 3 metres before he goes into the tunnel. Ruse might just be a smaller version of Voodoo 🙂
second – I think the physical cue being shown before she enters will help too: you were running straight, which seemed to override the turn verbal. You when she arrives at the 2 metre spot before the tunnel entry, give the verbal and also let her see you turn and leave for the wing. That should get the turn going.
I found a couple of videos to give you a visual of what I mean:
Here is Voodoo:
https://youtu.be/Zcrn6j1IOIM?t=273Here is the baby BorderWhippet learning tunnel turns with the 2 metre distance, so you can see how much we show the dog that early:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpdqbKmk5qoYou can shorten up the tunnel so it is not quite as stimulating (perhaps? LOL!). But I think the earlier cues (physical and verbal) will totally help 🙂
Let me know what you think! Nice work here!
TracyHi! I think he has it now! Note how he is staring at it before you let go. Yay! And he was super successful hitting the position and holding it while you did all sorts of things. Super!!! And it is fine that he wouldn’t get off the board haha!!! Good boy!
So… drumroll please…. onwards to the teeter!!!! Put the target right on the bottom edge of the teeter and with a tiny bit of tip, ask him to leap on and into position. Start it easy to transfer the concept, but I am guessing he will figure it out immediately and then we will be moving quickly through the bang and elevator games. Happy dance!
Great job!!!!
TracyHi! Lots of good work here!!
First up, the teeter-tables at the beginning and end: these look GREAT. He is doing exactly what we want: run run run stop. LOL! And not worried or leaping off or avoiding… fast and happy!
>>I’m struggling to find something to at more tip without just going to ground>>
I think we need one more level before going to the ground – I love what he is doing and want to protect it so you get more of it. Can the white PVC legs be removed from the blue table, or are they glued in? The blue table top would be perfect.
Do you have a wooden box or something? Or even a bunch of heavy tunnel bags?Definitely do more of this, he really likes it and has made great progress. We will be getting it to the ground really soon! I think if you can find one more level to do a couple more sessions like these, then he will be ready for it to go to the ground.
The elevator game also looks really strong – I know it takes about 4 arms to feel comfy with it LOL! I couldn’t hear if you were doing a countdown before the target cue or not? If so – great! If not, add the countdown so he can be prepared for when you add more height. Speaking of more height… add more LOL! And I added more to the Elevator Game today, so move to that step.
The elevator game is the game that really puts it all together AND helps us get it into the trial ring, so definitely put a lot of focus onto it.
His bang game is looking good! Add some more tip here too 🙂
And his end position on the wobble board was cracking me up – he was all like “how am I supposed to stop on this tiny thing??” LOL! But he figured it out, good boy! One thing to remember: if you are moving, keep moving for at least 2 or 3 steps *after* he is fully stopped. You were in a rhythm of decelerating and stopping with him, and we don’t want him to rely on your decel to stop in position on the teeter.
Because this wobble board is so portable, I highly recommend you take this game on the road – if you are going to be at a trial, you can play it near the ring as kind of a ‘pre-teeter in a more stressful environment’ challenge.
Excellent work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>wrap/tunnel: ok yes I see what you mean about multi wraps slowing him down. So many classes emphasize multi wraps and I never understood why.>>
Agreed!!! I obsessed a LOT on why it was being done, and which dogs actually benefitted from that.
When we use the doubles to teach the dogs to lead into turns with their heads to improve the quality of the turns… totally worthwhile as a training game (we did this in the first MaxPup).
But in all honesty… many people use multiwraps as a punisher if they did not like the quality of the dog’s turn in a sequence, so they make the dog do multiple wraps. The dog looks tighter (because he is slower) but never actually learns to turn tight in the first place (and the handler blames the dog rather than improves the cue to help the dog)Now, you were totally not using it as a punisher, you were just playing the multiwrap game LOL! But I don’t think he needs it because you said: he is totally balanced. Maybe that will change and he will go lunatic and you will need to ask for more thoughtfulness? And the head turn double wrap game is great for a wing near a trial ring because it challenges his ability to lead with the head in a highly arousing environment 🙂
T
