Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Hi! I am glad you posted, yay for cooler weather! Feel free to post runs from Dikkens too. How is Gidget doing?
On the video:
Wheeeee! Great job with Charlee, this was a lovely run! Overall your connection was lovely and your handling was smooth, so my ideas are just to smooth out some timing and some lines. I loved Charlee’s wagging tail on the start line! Also, Charlee has GREAT commitment from what I can see here, so you can probably challenge her (him?) to commit with evn more independence.Excellent push to jump 2! Charlee looked strong in terms of commitment so you can play with pushing to the backside while you are on the exit wing, which will give you a change to get even further up the line to 3. The other option to play with on this opening, is to do the backside slice on 2 coming in from the other wing, so Charlee exits facing the correct side of 3 (which then makes it much easier for you to get the FC to the tunnel after it).
A tiny bit more connection to Charlee’s eyes before he exits the tunnel will get a smoother ine to 5 (at :10), You can also start giving your Go or Jump cue right before he goes in, so he know to exit straight.
Nice job on the line from 5 to 8! Charlee’s commitment looked really good here so I bet you can give your verbals (jump and go tunnel) even sooner, you might even be able to start saying Go Tunnel to name the whole line and let Charlee drive away to it 🙂
Perfect execution of the weave exit, you were in just the right spot at the right time to show the line to the next jump 🙂 YAY!
On the 12 jump at :28 – 2 ideas for you:
Turning to the right like you did, you can decelerate a little sooner so you can rotate sooner, which will get an even tighter turn. The goal is that you are rotated before Charlee passes you, so you can decelerate when he is out of the tunnel and then as he catches up, you start rotated. The other option here is to turn the other way on 12 (to his left) so that when he lands, he has a straight line to the 13 tunnel and you don’t have to step in to push him back out. That is probably the faster line.
Wow, I *loved* your blind cross at the end from the last tunnel to the last jump! You started it right before Charlee entered the tunnel so he could see it before he exited, and your made a perfect connection to his eyes with your arm back – note how Charlee never had to question the line, he could just accelerate to the last jump: PEREFCTION! Love it!Great job here! Let me know what you think! Hopefully the weather will cooperate and you can post more – plenty of time to catch up!
Tracy
Yes – eventually they will be in a straight line, like a serpentine but with the wings very tight together.
T
Hi!
This feedback will be a bit boring, both videos looked great so the general feedback is “woohoo! Onwards to next steps” hahaha! Here are more specifics:Wrapping: He did really well with the toy and the wraps! I could see from his facial expression that he was definitely more stimulated. But his retrieve was good and his outs were good! You can reward the out by sometimes giving the toy right back to him. He seemed to ‘catch’ himself on the chomp moment – interesting how he chomped then immediately backed off – GOOD BOY!!!!!
You can transfer the toy to the barrel and a wing now, so then you can add it to turn and burn and the other games. I think that adding toy play in will help balance the food drive, because toys will become part of the expectations and reward systems. We kinda took them out because he was learning to de-shark. He is maturing nicely!!!Great job on your click timing with the serps – you were nailing it!! He wsa offering up the in-then-out behavior we want and you clicked when he turned back out. Perfect! Also I am in awe of your treat throws to get him lined up on the perfect angle of entry – impressive!!! So now… onwards to adding motion 🙂 He is ready! Sloooow motion at first 🙂
And on the threadles, the click timing is the same: when he turns himself back out to the bar.Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyYay, it worked! And yes, YouTube does weird things sometimes LOL!!!
He is doing really well on the tunnel threadles, so we can up the ante 🙂 As for the verbal: you can keep playing with what makes sense to you when you are moving and also what sounds very different. For example, one of the great things about ‘come’ is the extended delivery (“coooommmme”) which is very different than any other cue. So you might consider using a repeated but slightly stretched out cue (heere heeere) rather than hereherehere which could start to sound like tunneltunneltunnel in rhythm, pitch and tone (yes, I do obsess on all that haha!!!)
For example, I will be using “kiss” so I think I will be stretching it to be kiiss kiiissss so it is very different from closecloseclose.OK back to the threadles 🙂 He is having no trouble with the turn away element. The only hard part was the self-tunneling during transitions, so using a cookie to bring him to you and reset like you did at the end is a great decision 🙂 And for the reward: you can incorporate that toy (it is a cool toy!) by running when he gets into the tunnel and dragging it for him to chase – that will make it more exciting because he is not a massive fan of ‘dead’ toys yet.
Let’s now add more independence: I think he was relying on your motion/foot turn a bit to cue the 2nd have of the threadle, where he turns and goes into the tunnel. So, to add challenge and get more independence on the going to the tunnel, try not to use motion to help and let him ‘find it’ entirely on his own by moving parallel to the tunnel, feet forward, threadle cue in play – but very slowly until he turns himself away: and then you can turn and have a big party, running to the end of the tunnel and rewarding. You’ll be turning your feet after he turns and starts heading to the tunnel. Sticking really close to the tunnel will help and also moving slowly so he isn’t too excited by you moving fast. I think he is more than ready for this step – let me know if it makes sense! It puts all of the commitment responsibility on him 🙂
Nice work! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi again!
Great job being on Team Chill! I thought you were pretty chill even when he went directly to Nemo. Yes, even that little bit of motion was a bit too much with the nemo ball out there. But your mechanics were really good, nice job with your position, arm, connection, release. He just had to sort it out a big with the higher value reinforcement out ahead (which is also a more stimulating distraction). He was trying to go faster and had to remember how to serp at higher speed.
The threadle looked great, as did the last serp! You can add more motion with a less exciting reward (like a cookie in a food bowl) and alternate using the ball as a distraction to help him learn to execute the skills even when he is really excited – but without a lot of motion from you yet. And then I am sure within a couple of sessions, you’ll be able to put the motion and excitement together.Nice work here!
TracyHi!
Either my computer is losing its mind, or this video is a frozen moment of you watching him chase the toy LOL! Can you check it and see if it is loaded wrong?T
Hi! Good job here too! He is a little stronger going to his left at the moment but he did sort it out to the right as well! I think the value is still developing for the wing, so he wasn’t driving to it as much yet (with environmental distractions) – so you can do another session or two of concept transfer/value building for the wing, then he will be perfect with it. His value for chasing you looked GREAT – it is fun to see some serious explosiveness through those turns, wow! That will also help build value for the wing by pairing it with super fun running (and Nemo haha). No worries about touching the wing- that happened when you were still close to it, plus I think he doesn’t enjoy smashing into things – it went away as soon as you moved away sooner.
Great job!
THi!
This is going really nicely! Is that the same big blue barrel that he was having trouble with? No trouble now! I think the hardest part was sorting out the timing of the transition into the next barrel. On the last 2 reps, I think you had the best ones – lots of running forward, a little decel, then a later rotation. He is super responsive so you don’t need to slam on the brakes. The commitment cues are the fast and slow forward motion, so you don’t need to use a rotated send as part of the commitment – it is more of the ‘this is how much I want you to turn’ cue 🙂 And be sure to maintain a lot of connection as you decel, this will help commitment even more. His commitment looked really strong when you did the later decel and rotation. He was a little sticky when you were a little too soon with the decel/rotation on the first couple of reps.
And nice turn and burn at the end!!!!T
When I watch videos and the a dog kind of ‘loses’ a skill that had been going just fine, I always check the time stamp (I am a little odd LOL!) and it is almost always between 90 seconds and 2 minutes. It is really fascinating!!! I develop an internal timer and my sessions are almost all just under 2 minutes long because I am so used to having a timer running LOL!
Hi!
>> It’s funny because many people told me I was going to have be really animated and energetic in my training when they found out I was getting a whippet – I think these kind of whippets bring their own party though haha! Not that I can’t be fun, but exactly what you said, I have to be more strategic about when I turn that on.>>
Exactly, be strategic!!! These racing/working lines of whippet bring their own party indeed LOL!!!!!
>>So for the Rocking Horse game, sometimes he doesn’t look directly at my eyes, so it’s hard to get that really connected eye contact with him. Is that okay?
Yes! That brings up a good point – when I talk about connection (which I do a LOT haha), I mean human connection to dog eyes. The dog does not and should not look back at us. If we are properly connected, the pup will not look back at you at all – he will look at his ‘work’ and that is correct 🙂
>>We worked on the Get Out game, I’m using “away” for my verbal, since I worry “get out” sounds too much like my “get it.”
Smart! Makes total sense.
>> This was hard for me and I had to practice it without him a couple times before I felt ready. My feet want to point at the prop lol!
ha! That is why I had to put lines on the ground for myself 🙂
>>Can you explain exactly when I will use this cue? Like in the example video of you running your black dog – what if that jump weren’t so far off the line you are on? Would you use your dog side arm to cue the jump? He is turning around on the prop sometimes when he hits it – kind of like the rear crosses lol – is this okay? or should I do something to keep him moving ahead and not circling back?
I recommend using this any time the dog has to move away from the parallel line you are running to pick up an obstacle or line – and then either remain parallel to you or come back towards you – all while you need to be running like mad up the course and it would be inefficient (at best) or make it impossible to get to the next spot (at worst) on course.
If the jump is not that far away and the next part of the course doesn’t urgently require me to be there, then I can move towards it (turning feet towards it, running to it, like a serp) but I would still keep my dog side arm relatively out of the picture (pointing with the dog side arm tends to do more harm than good).
If he is turning around the prop like a RC, there is possibly too much pressure so he legit thinks it is a rear cross, so be sure your feet are straight and also you can probably soften your upper body send. And, make sure you toss the reward out ahead past it so he drives forward to get it and doesn’t turn back.Here are 2 clips of me using the cue – I will try to find some more.
https://youtu.be/E-PmkS6SXig?t=20 (starting at :20)>>A few posts back you asked me if he had a stay or could stay on a station. He does not. It’s a case of “there are so many things to teach a puppy and I haven’t gotten to it”
I feel that! He is old enough to begin working the stay. I usually don’t make a big deal of it til the pups are about 6 months old, then I start teaching it.
>>Our food-toy switching is really going south lol. If he even thinks there is a chance of getting a treat, he will not engage with the toy at all. I’ve tried keeping the toys in a container on a shelf at one end of the room and playing with the toy on the other end. Also, putting the treats in another room and playing with the toy and then going in the other room to get a treat, and then going back to playing in the other room. If there are treats at stake, he only wants the food. The ONE exception seems to be the flirt pole. He seems to be fine with eating a treat and going back to flirt pole. I’m not sure what to do, as switching from food back to toy seems to be getting harder and harder for him.>>
That is pretty normal. So you can use the flirt pole a lot! And you can tie several toys together so they are really long and wild and dragging on the ground, like a flirt pole. And separately from training (where he is probably conditioned to expect food), and with no food around, do some toy play and also do some training games with just a toy or two. That will help bring back the value of the toy play.
>>We did work on the Rocking Horse Game with a toy in my hand, and there was a little bit of struggle. I’ve never cued the wrap with a toy in my dog-side hand so that was new for him. But overall, I think he did well. No chomping!>>
The rocking horses with a toy in hand is HARD!!! Gold star for no chomping!!!!
On your away video – I see what you are saying about the turning back – it looks like it was just because you were standing still and he wants to turn to his right 🙂 when you switched sides, he could turn to his right and stay on the parallel line. So the answer to fix it is… just add motion and that was the next step anyway LOL!! He did really well here! So, onwards to step 2 where you are moving up the line and giving your away cue, like you did here. My only suggestion is to keep your arm a little lower, more at the height of your hip and less at shoulder height.
Rocking horses look good! He had a little trouble ‘finding’ the second wing, for 2 reasons I believe – he doesn’t turn left as well as he turns right, at the moment. And, as he is coming around the wing from the right turn, your dog-side arm was a little forward blocking connection. So, keep that arm waaaaaay back and make eye contact and let him get almost to your hip… then cue the next wing. He won’t necessarily look back at you, and that is fine 🙂 Your eye contact is just being used to tell him where you want him to be.
He was great about ignoring the toy! So you can try to see if he will do some wraps for the toy – you can throw it after the wrap and see how he does!Great job!!!!
TracyGreat question!
For Voodoo – yes, I use “close” for both but it is not great to do that. So for Hot Sauce, Elektra and Contraband, I use separate verbals because I have found sequences where only having one verbal is not clear enough for the dog. So, for the younger dogs, my verbals will be:
“Close” is a threadle slice on a jump (can be opposite hand or dog-side hand, depends on the situation)
“Kiss” is a tunnel threadle (other side of tunnel) (always opposite hand)And I will eventually have a threadle-wrap cue but it is a very low priority right now.
Good morning!
These look great! You layered in the distractions so nicely that she saw them but was super successful, even on the taller bar – I don’t think I have seen her jump 20 before and it looks great (I think that was 20?). My only suggestion for the distractions is that you can connect less 🙂 Disconnection is a fabulous distraction!
When you added the set point before the tunnel, how far apart were the 2 jumps? It looks like they were far enough that she could stride rather than ‘bounce’, so move then in closer – 6 feet for her size, but if she can still squeeze in a stride, move then to 5 feet apart so she lands and takes off, rather than land, stride, take off. And when they are 5 feet apart, only do it going towards the tunnel. If you do tunnel to the set point, she might crank her shoulders trying to fit into the gap there (doing the tunnel to the jump was fine on the single jump, more opportunity for proofing LOL!)You can add challenge in 2 ways – start her a lot further back, so she is coming in even faster! And, you can start with both of you facing away from the jump, then turn and run to it so she has to sort it out without looking at it for a while, if that makes sense 🙂
Great job!
TracyHi! You were brilliantly distracting here 🙂 She did really well!!! I agree about still rewarding the ticked bar even if you had caught it in the moment: ticking the bar is still a better jumping effort than dropping the bar, plus it is really hard to pinpoint being the reason there is no immediate reward. I think a bar on the ground, the bar has moved, is a bit more obvious (but even with that, I am not always sure we communicate it as well as I would like, so if there is going to be a consequence then I always choose to err on the side of extra reinforcement :)) I prefer to look back and say “perhaps I should not has rewarded that” rather than “perhaps I should not have punished that” (I consider the delay/withholding to be a negative punishment). It is easier to recover reinforcement errors than punishment errors – perhaps that is me just being warm-fuzzy or anecdotal but it does make training a more fun time 🙂
So you can do something like start both of you facing the other direction here, then on the flat turn and race to the tunnel – no connection, lots of loud yelling, etc 🙂 Then maybe tunnel – jump – tunnel, or tunnel to a pinwheel back to the tunnel to add a tiny bit of turn on the jump before the tunnel. Let me know if that makes sense, I can draw it out if it doesn’t 🙂
Great job!
TracyHi there!
>> In general what I am noticing is that my timing sucks 🙂
It doesn’t suck, it is in progress 🙂 Timing with young dogs is difficult: they are still learning the skills so they don’t read the beginning of the cue, they need to see the full cue which means we have to be earlier to show it to them. Also, they keep getting faster so we need to keep getting faster too… and it takes me a couple of sessions to catch up when that happens LOL!
>> I am about a year into learning my left and rights, turns out it is a harder skill than I thought. I do rehearse them but I need to work that process more.>>
Relatable!!!! It takes time to get the newer verbals into our mental muscle memory.
>>“don’t give a forward cue until the head is turned to the line”. So I have lots of questions on this one.
Teehee 🙂 It is a a big statement LOL!
>>>When entering a tunnel and I want an extension exit (straight), it is OK to give the cue because essentially she is pointing in the correct direction. Correct?
Yes – because you are naming the tunnel exit and she is already committed to the tunnel. But my statement is more about giving the commitment cue to a tunnel, for example, rather than an exit cue. Commitment to the tunnel will allow me to then use an exit cue.
>> On the RC, if I get the head turned and then say go (my brain processing slower than hers) and I setting her up for waiting for my commands (ie, slower)?
Nope – because you will see where her head is pointing and deliver the info – so on the RC that went wrong, she was looking straight past the jump, towards the weaves – and when you said go, that affirmed the line and she stayed on it. So you can get her a different directional there (out, or right, or whatever fits) and when her head turns to the line you want, then you can say the next cue.
To put it in a different context: replace the weaves with a tunnel and replace the rear cross jump with a different tunnel. And ‘go’ and ‘tunnel’ are both forward cues… so you will not want to say ‘go’ or tunnel’ til you know which one she is looking at because she is going to go into whichever tunnel she is looking at when you say the verbal.
>>As the dog gets older and begins to read your mind can you ease up on this “rule”?
Not in my experience 🙂 I put a lot of forward on my dogs, so that is how I learned this rule LOL!! Voodoo finally got it through my thick skull 🙂 The difference is that as the dogs get older, we are seeing them better so it is easier to time cues, plus they can predict us better so they are reading the subtleties of motion better, so they are less likely to be looking the ‘wrong’ way. But I make it a point to be sure of where the dog is looking before I give physical or verbal forward cues, and I will keep working a turn if the dog is not yet looking the correct direction.
>>Another question came to mind. Is it better to go back and both of us get good at this course? Or should I keep setting up similar stuff and keep learning that way? Obviously, if something stands out as a deficit in a learned skill I need to simplify and teach it.>>
I think it does you no good if she learns the sequence, because then she is just running it from memory and isn’t responding. I prefer to set up different stuff or use the same course but do balances on each sequence, so the dog is always delivering feedback on my cues rather than running it because he knows it. For example, Contraband has been learning figure 8s on barrels – and now I am adding other handling cues to them beyond just FCs. When he first sees the barrels at the start of each session, though, he just starts offering the figure 8s without me – he has learned the sequence LOL! So we don’t want Zing to remember the course and do it because she has learned it (she is more than smart enough to remember it) – I vote for do different things 🙂
T
