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hi!
yep, Kramer and Nacho are truly brothers in all things food. HA!! The puzzle of teaching them how to earn the food is the key to their success in dog sports. Agility is a difficult sport in that regard.On your skill sets:
He was reading the serps beautifully! Driving ahead so well!
On the serps, you can probably just run with your serp arm back, you don’t need to pull him in on that first rep (and if close is your threadle, you can save it for when he needs to come through the gap towards you as opposed to over the bar towards you) You can call his name on those. If close is more of an attention cue, then yes yo can totally use it there.
On the convergence – the first rep at 1:12 was good, your feet and motion converged really well! On the next rep at 1:16, you were using your arm more than your feet and he didn’t read it as well. Your next rep at 1:39 was really strong with the convergence line – you probably don’t even need and arm and can just use eye contact to cue it.
The blind cross reps looked really good, easy peasy! You can start them even sooner, right as you release him. On a sequence it would be easier to start them sooner, it is a little harder on a lead out 🙂Great job here!!!
TracyHi!
>> When you say, “converge more on 3” do you mean “go in further between 3 and 4”? I was trying hard NOT to do that and get stuck by 4 and unable to get to 5. Later on you say, “converge more immediately” which maybe means “cut in after 3 sooner so you can get out and on your way to 5”. I am more excited by your suggestion to try to do it with lateral distance, since I can’t get stuck by #4 if that works.>>
In a perfect happy world, we would go into the gap and then be quick enough on our tootsies to get right back out. In my reality world, I am not always right there to get into the gap and if I do, I can’t get back out fast enough. So the convergence is more about showing motion into the gap and showing pressure, with your feet facing the gap, all before the dog has to make a takeoff decision. So in theory, we can do it from 20 feet away (but that takes some training – my 7 year old dog can do it but my 2 year old cannot do it from a distance).
On the video – on the 2nd rep (:12ish) I think your lower body was really good in terms of your line, feet point into the gap, showing convergence while being a little lateral. What will help here is a more exaggerated upper body – more direct eye contact as you deliver the around cue. Your upper body was in more of a normal position, and because of his youth and inexperience, he didn’t quite differentiate the subtle lower body versus the upper body and verbal. So keep the lower body the same there, a little bit of pressure and feet pointing into the gap, but ramp up the upper body connection to get your chest to point into the gap. It will be a little exaggerated for now but it will get the behavior – and then it can be softened as he realizes that such a thing can exist LOL!! And it will also get softened as the around verbal gets stronger and stronger, to eventually override motion.
The last 2 runs were really good because you put yourself into the gap – on this sequence, you can still get 5-6 but we don’t want to always have to do that, in case 5-6 is a moire difficult line.
Course 3 – since I am obsessing on the subtle lower body and more dramatic upper body, you can use it at :19 when you wanted the backside but didn’t want to get all the way in there. Your path and feet had some subtle convergence showing, so you can maybe do a tiny bit more of turning your feet to the convergence line (as you move along it, rather than stopping or sending) but definitely a stronger and more dramatic connection to his eyes will help show him that line.
You can also use that concept on the 1-2 line. – leading out less and moving with a bit of convergence 1-2 rather than a big step to push to 2. That will straighten the line 1-2 and that can get you into position for 3-4-5 so the FC 3-4 can be earlier.
Everything else looked really good! The only place to make a decision is on jump 7 here. The slice line out of the tunnel makes a case for turning him to his left but the exit line to the tunnel is hard and it the distance is longer that way – so it might be interesting to play with turning him to his right on 7 – it is a skill he has and the distance is shorter, so might be worth a try!
Thank you For letting me know that you are seeing my crazy ideas in the spirit in which they are intended: part of a bigger collaboarative process where we learn from each other and from the dogs. Your dogs, over the years, have taught me a TON!!! And I agree: it is hard to shrug things off that make us feel “less than”. Plus, I think it is important to acknowledge, like you did, that agility is constantly evolving PLUS we get these new dogs – so my favorite thing is to come together in a collaborative process to try it figure it out 🙂 Thank you for being willing to try new things and to deliver the feedback on them! Your talent as a dog trainer and handler is an important part of the collaborative process and I really appreciate it 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
>>I’m not sure how to insert a reply after each of your comments to my postings, so I’m just going to reply to everything all at once here. >>
There should be a reply button in the upper right corner of each post, but maybe only I can see it? It is relatively new software so I am not entirely sure of how it all works 🙂
>>In-In and Serps: Thanks for the ideas to help reinforce correct decisions on her part, and give her clues she’s headed in the right direction when she hesitates. I thought I was supposed to be using a stationary reward, which is why I didn’t try throwing treats. She’ll respond well to a flying treat, so we’ll head in that direction. >>
Yes, the mission was to have stationary rewards but she is being very polite 🙂 so if you can keep totally still (shoulders) and fling a cookie with the other hand, I think she might be less polite and drive back out over the bar on her own 🙂
>>Get Outs: Thanks for sharing your thoughts on dog-side vs. off-side arm for sending out. I have a feeling that, while I will most likely use the dog-side arm most of the time, there may be gamble set-ups where turning into the dog for emphasizing a turn or a piece of equipment might be the best way to go.>>
Yes – you can totally apply it differently. The verbal names her behavior so the dog side arm can be for slightly less of a push out than the opposite arm. That opposite arm is pretty powerful so you can save it for the big gambles 🙂
Tracy
Good morning!
My student with the Aussie has used a series of Control Unleashed games and also some protocol for relaxation (which is an oldie but a goodie, I think a lot of people call it mat work nowadays). Her pup would obsessively eat things including poisonous mushrooms – and now he is doing really well (I think he is 15 months old at this point). I will ask her what she recommends to start with – she is becoming a certified instructor for the Control Unleashed program and used me as a guinea pig so Contraband and I learned some of the game: I will dig them out. They were fun and simple – and Control Unleashed is all about the food as reward, but if Pirate can play with a toy or ball then I am sure we can tweak it to use those 🙂
He did really well in class Tuesday night, outdoors!!!!
On the video – it is a little awkward without running but your mechanics are fine 🙂 When they were really close, the mechanics were perfect! When you added more motion, the only tweak in mechanics that I would suggest is to turn and then wait (or turn more slowly for now) until he is almost back to you (stay connected :)) and then step to the next one. You were early and that might be why it felt weird? But early is fine and it wil serve you well when we add more running.
And yes, you can totally spread them out more and run more LOL! He did a great job when you added the turn and burn for the rewards!
Your connection looked terrific throughout, great job with that 🙂
About the toy-in-hand: he started off really well with ignoring it, then when things got more exciting, it was harder (especially when the toy was moving :)) Hpw is he doing with going back and forth between food and toys? I ask because puppies constantly shift in their ability to do that. If he is doing OK with it, you can do a couple of reps for a treat, then do some toy play, then back to treats – it will keep the arousal a little lower and also help teach him that just because the toy is visible, doesn’t mean that it is in play for grabbing 🙂 You can start with the toy squished up in the opposite hand, then you can work it back over to the send hand. I also like to do warm up reps where I have the toy in the hand, right next to the barrel, and let the pup offer the wrap just like we did early on – as a reminder of the value of the barrel and not of grabbing the toy 🙂
Let me know what you think!
Great job here!
TracyHi again!
I am glad you added motion right away, the baby level without motion was very easy for her. Motion was much harder 🙂 She figured it out after the first rep and did a great job – you rewarded the choice to go to the prop and it was the right choice. On some reps, you cued with the opposite arm and one others you cued with the dog side arm (first rep with motion and at 1:07) – for her at this point, the opposite arm allowed her to read the cue better while also allowing you to move forward more. Dog side arm was pulling you into a weight shift. So keep that opposite arm in play for this. You can probably lower it and soften it (so it is more across your stomach and not across your chest) so that will allow you to begin adding even more motion). And you can totally add more motion if you want! You might want to make the prop more visible (put it on a towel or something) so it is easier for her to see when you are jogging. It is a jump replacer, so it is fine to make it more visible because jumps are pretty visible.Great job on all of the sessions here!
TracyHoly cow, you are rocking this!!! Look at the distance and how well she is going!!!! It sounds like you are already adding your wrap verbals (in the middle of the video) and that is great. I am loving her commitment and also look at how well she is using her body around the barrels: low, tight and fast! Your timing of leaving on the FC here was really good. It was challenging for her, so she probably needs one more sessions just like this before you make it harder.
When that goes well, you can add your motion – running towards the barrel more, making the transition to deceleration and rotation – then FC and run to the next one. The added motion will add more challenge!
Great job here!
TracyThis is great, Juliet! Her commitment looks terrific and my favorite part is that she is *running* to the barrel and not trotting. That speaks to how much value you’ve put on the game. Yay!!! Great job leaving earlier and earlier – they were all really good but the reps at :10, :18 and the very last rep amazing!! yes, you can play seeing if you can leave earlier, but that will be easier when we add to the rocking horse games. Great job here!!
Tracy
You are very welcome, but I am having tech trouble and can’t seem to get your video to come up LOL!! Do you have a YouTube link yo can copy and paste? Sorry to be such a pain!
TracyHi! I think we all get into using the same reactions when the pup is not correct – human nature. I catch myself when I watch the videos LOL!!! So I try to redirect myself into rewarding something else 🙂
T
Hi! This is going well – a couple of ideas for you:
On the ‘regular’ serp lines, keep your dog-side arm further back and open your chest up to face her more (your feet were perfect, running forward!) you were looking a little ahead and that made things a little bit wider.On the convergence: On your first convergence rep, you were just a little late- you were running the ‘regular’ line til she landed and then you tried to push in, but she had already made a line decision. On the next rep, you were showing the convergence before she took off, and it worked beautifully! At :22, coming in fromthe backside, you were late showing convergence (you tried to do it after she landed) so she was correct to get the front side of the next jump. But on the next rep, you started showing the convergence as she taking off, and it worked much better! She ticked the bar here – which means it was a tiny bit late, so try to show the convergence as she is rounding the wing to get to the backside. She pulled the bat at :42 (last rep) because the convergence happened while she was in the air (a little late). You did a nice job with the convergence at :38 – so nice, in fact, that you ended up doing a rear cross on the takeoff side of the 2nd jump (a forced rear) and that is fine! So keep trying to be super early on your convergence so she has time to adjust to the tighter turn to the backside.
To get the blind, converge like you did, but turn your head to the other side so you are doing the blind cross while you are in the gap between the 2 jumps.
Nice job! Let me know if this makes sense 🙂 Stay cool!
TracyHi!
>> You mentioned that I should keep the same spacing. Do you mean put the jumps in a straight line? Or should there be spacing between them?
Keep them in a straight line, still nice and tight 🙂
>>I did the Skill sets today and had some unusual issues at the start. She was threadling between the jumps instead of doing the straight ahead jump on the parallel path serpentine. When I looked at the video, I realized that she’s in that Zig Zag pattern and I think that’s why she was doing that. I skipped the convergence between the jumps because during this session. >>
That is actually pretty common, zig zag grid or not – the dogs start offering the more complex move (like threadles or backside pushes) when all we want are the simple front sides LOL! I don’t know exactly why they do it, other than reinforcement value we put into threadles versus front sides plus sometimes the more complex behaviors are more self-reinforcing? And I totally see how it would look like the zig zag grid without the middle jump – especially because that grid has been on her mind lately 🙂 I suggest lots of balance reps – lots of front sides and only the rare threadles and backsides 🙂 You can also angle the jumps a little so the front side is more obvious and the backside is too difficult to be worthwhile (not sure if she will agree with that, however LOL!)
I think this session went well! You had to spend a few moments reminding her of the joys of the easy stuff (regular serps lol) but then it was all lovely! And the zig zag grids are transferring: her jumping on these difficult slices was MUCH more organized!!!!! I know there was not a TON of speed yet but there was a more consistently clear organization and jumping effort. YES! This was happening on both the regular serps and also the backside send serps, so I am doing a little happy dance here. On the convergence to the blind – you can push in even sooner so your blind is finished before she takes off. That way you will be off the line and reconnected sooner – you were getting off the line nicely by the end, but the reconnection can come sooner (she was reading it nicely, though, because she recognizes the head turn as the antecedent to the rest of the blind cross info). When you do add in the convergence to backside – do just one rep then do a bunch of regular non-convergence lines LOL!!!! That way she doesn’t self-diverge LOL!! I have found with Voodoo that when he was just a little younger than he is now, if I did 3 threadles or convergence lines in a row, that it was nearly impossible to get him back on a 180 or regular line. When he filmed the demo for this, he did NOT make any mistakes – and, at 7 years old, that is a first for an entire session like that 🙂 I don’t know if Pose will get herself into a convergence loop like that, but we can help her avoid it by just randomly doing one rep and then doing the other lines 🙂
Nice work here! Let me know if that makes sense!
Tracyhi! Nice work on these skills sets!
Video 1 – lots of really nice stuff! You can be a little closer to the jumps on the regular serpentine (about an arm’s length or less). Your convergence when he was on your right was lovely – note how at :19 you were already showing convergence before the release, so he was perfect! Compare that to :43 (when he ended up behind you) and :55 when he got it but he had some verbal feedback lol – on those reps, you were still moving on the parallel path regular serp line after he landed, the convergence info was late. You were super connected on the last rep which helped get it, but you should be moving in sooner, more like you did at :19.
Videos 2 – all of the backside series looked GREAT! Try to think of the convergence to the 2nd backside a little differently in terms of when to show it to him: as he is rounding the backside entry wing of jump 1, you should already be pointing your feet into the gap for the next backside. You were perfect with that on rep 2, when you did the blind to the front of 2. On the other reps where you pushed to the backside, you did a step to the backside after he landed – so he landed then turned, creating a little zig zag. If you can start stepping into the gap (or facing it/moving towards it) before he takes off for jump 1, you will see him adjust the line before takeoff and have a much tighter turn into the backside – without you having to take a big step to get it.
Video 3: He did well on the threadles! Having to ignore the MM is hard indeed, but he did it 🙂 I think he was not coming in fast when you were looking right at him. When you shifted the connection down to your hand when you said the verbal (last 2 reps), he was nice and fast coming in! So maybe direct eye contact on the threadles is tooooo much for now and you can look at your hand. Good job adding motion – I would definitely keep adding more and more motion, working up to a run! You can also add a wing or a low jump before it (with not much motion, go slooooowly :)) and see if he can figure it out in sequence 🙂
Nice work here!!!
Tracy
Hi! This looks really good, with whichever arm you use 🙂 I train both, so feel free to sometimes use the outside arm, sometimes the dog side arm – the situation will dictate which one you are more comfortable using on course. At this stage, I suggest starting with the easy angles and adding in a little bit of motion (sloooooow walking :)) You will be walking… then went you get to the entry wing, give the threadle cue and keep walking v-e-r-y-s-l-o-w-l-y 🙂 If that goes well, you can get faster and faster, gradually 🙂 Keep reminding yourself to NOT stop, also keep moving even if it is really slow 🙂 After 2 successful sessions of that… add the 2nd wing back.
And yes, you can totally mix in serp training within these sessions – you will change your position and your verbal so she knows the difference.
Nice job! Let me know now if the ideas make sense 🙂
TracyHi! I was wondering when someone was going to ask this LOL!!!
>> Overall, are you meaning that you should train each arm for each use and then use the preferable one for the situation? The opposite arm would be used when you need more extreme connection for a difficult threadle and the open side arm would be used with more casual connection or an easier threadle for the dog to perform. Please give me your thoughts of this subject.>>
I’ll preface my answer by saying that there is no wrong answer here, because threadles are trained skills and the handling is icing on the cake 🙂
yes – I train both. The main part of the training is the verbal cue, but I show the dog that the threadle can be either arm (and I also show the dog that I might do double blinds in a threadle too). The threadle verbal names the dog’s behavior (come in – go out) and not my behavior (handling choice).
How you choose is personal depending on the dog. I generally use the dog-side arm Threadle when I am ahead of the dog (in a good position) and the threadle is ‘normal’ and not terribly complicated. When I am behind (out of position) or it is a really hard threadle, I use the outside arm. The outside arm is easier for the dog to see, which helps! But it is harder to run with the outside arm up, so the dog side arm is great because it allows us to run better.
So yes, the difficulty of the threadle influences my choice about which arm to use, and my position relative to the dog & the threadle also influences the decision: It is an ‘easy’ threadle but I am behind, I will use my opposite arm.
Let me know if that makes sense!
TracyYay, it worked! Very nice session here! I agree, she was not *quite* ready for the toy on the ground but I do admire her happy moment when she bounded towards it LOL! She is so fun 🙂
The session with the MM went really well. Your position can be one step more towards the wing (to your left) and then it will be perfect (at 1:00 you were blocking her line to the correct side so she ended up on the other side, but the rest were really strong). As you play with this, you can start clicking the MM even sooner – you can anticipate the instant she is going to hit your hand and click it, so she goes right back out. Then you can click it just before she hits your hand: the goal is that she comes towards your hand to the correct side of the jump then turns herself back out 🙂 When you see her doing that, we will fade out the hand target and add motion. Nice work here, I think she is picking this up really nicely!!!!Tracy
