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Hi there!
On both of these games, I think sticking with less motion for a few more sessions before going to the motion will really help clarify things. On the wing wraps, he is beginning to get the idea, Yay! For now, try using just one wing, smack in the middle of the distraction jump. And do a couple of high success sessions (90 percent or above) with no motion or very little motion. Then do a couple of sessions with the 2 jumps… but no motion. Verbal only! The motion is what dilutes the verbal, so start it with no moving for now on both verbals. You’ll want to work up to at least 2 sessions on the jump of 90 percent success or more on both verbals before you add in motion.
On the decel games – the MM is a great idea! It is interesting enough to him to be both a reward and a distraction, but he can’t self-reward and he won’t be overly distracted by it. On the first video, where you were mainly stationary on the decel reps, he did pretty well. On the stationary, try to have your feet pretty close together to mimic the small steps you’d take on a decel. If he makes a mistake, cheerily call him back sooner so he doesn’t get all the way to the MM without feedback (this is hard, I know! LOL!). You can also mix in rewards from you hand to help reward the decel, and add a verbal: GO! for when you move and then the release and his name for when you are stationary.
On this game, do several more sessions of this until he really gets it, and you can be facing forwards (less sideways). When you do go into the motion, decel a lot sooner – on the last video, the decel was a bit late (he was almost past you) so you had to almost rotate to get him to turn. More practice on this with you stationary will help, and when you do add back motion – release while you walk and decel almost immediately so he can see it sooner, before he gets a full head of steam going 🙂
Nice starts on these!! Keep me posted!
TracyHi there!
He did a really good job on the turning criteria game – it is good brain game 🙂 Yay! Yes, try to differentiate the verbals because right now they sound very similar. Do another session of standing still on the send to the wing, then add motion… then go to the jump instead of the wing. Fun!On the rocking horses – I think there were 2 things going on that made it feel awkward:
first, at the beginning, you can move more – as soon as you started moving in towards the wings, he started moving more too. Yay! And, you can rotate and leave, staying in motion the whole time. But that brings me to the 2nd thing…
second, he didn’t want to finish the wraps, he wanted to stay out on the other side (which is part of the reason you were standing still, waiting, I think). Now I think it might have been because you had a frisbee and he was expecting you to throw it? But either way, you can move the wings closer and have him drive around to chase the reward in your hand (no thrown rewards) with less motion from you. Then move the wings away so you can move more and finish your rotation – still having him drive around to get the reward from your hand. I use a frisbee for this too, but Hot Sauce tugs on it in my hand in order to get me to throw it 🙂 or you can go to a toy that is more of a tug toy and less of a throw toy to see if my theory is correct or if he doesn’t want to finish the wrap 🙂 Also, hold your praise and excitement longer – til he comes around the wing. You were having a big verbal party when he got to the wing and he was stopping – so try to wait and have the verbal party only when he finishes coming around the wing.Nice work! Let me know how it goes!
TracyHi there! He looked really great here – I know one of your goals was to get him happy and he certainly looked happy! You can also turn it around and do jump-jump-jump-tunnel for more extension, along with the balance games with the turns. We want him to have a blast, blasting around the course. I think the balancing with turns on the tunnel will work and we are also going to add some rear crosses too.
Nice work!
TracyHi there!
>>Yes, historically I’ve used “Go” to mean take the single obstacle in front of you and “Go On” to basically mean continue along this line taking all obstacles in your path until told otherwise (or until you hit a tunnel or other obstacle that turns you or shapes your path). It’s made sense with my big long striding border collie in the past to let her know exactly how long she can expect to stay in extension. Not sure how much it does or should mean to this little guy and I may not be as consistent with him using it.>>
It makes sense, and you were consistent when using it with MM on the last video!!
The new video is marked as private, can you make it unlisted so I can watch? Thanks!
Tracy
Hi!
She is doing really well! She is working to sort it out – it is a really hard drill LOL!
I think for now, for the dig dig wraps, stand still – she is working it out relative to motion, so you can have the standing still = wrap at first and the go = running forward…. for now. I’d give her another session or two of that, then you will easily be able to add back the FC on the dig dig wraps and a little bit of motion in and out of it. She is in the learning phase of pairing the verbal with the behavior and she is totally on the right track! You are off to a strong start, the next few sessions will make it even clearer for her 🙂
Nice work!
TracyGood morning!! Looks like you are getting some lovely weather to get out and play!!!!
On the rocking horses:
what is your verbal wrap cue? I think you can convince yourself to use those and then it will be easier 🙂 It will take actively thinking about it but it will help to name the behavior and will also help to stop saying break or go. But separately from that – she is doing well! Add more space now between the wings, that will make you run more which she will really really like 🙂 Try to keep your arm back for connection on all the sends – when you pointed forward, she had to slow down to see what you wanted because connection was broken – more arm back and smaller arm motions will help propel her. Her commitment is looking solid when you are connected!
Great job on the running rewards – she really liked those and was plenty fast!
On the blinds – think of it as doing a FC on the wing then a blind cross on the flat (a reverse spin where you keep moving) and yes, no behind-the-back toy swaps LOL!!!On the GO – she is doing great – I love her speed and enthusiasm for these. An idea: when you are restraining her (which I think she really likes!) – rather than saying ready ready break, try saying GO GO GO then let go, run, keep yelling GO GO GO 🙂 Hold on tight though because she is going to want to GO. LOL! It helps name the behavior. You can now add starting further back so she can drive ahead even more.
And, correct, she doesn’t have to look at the jump before she starts. But she *does* look at it when you are restraining her! She wasn’t looking at it when you were next to her but not holding her. Interesting to know!Nice job here!
TracyHi-
>>After watching Benni yesterday on the course work jumping 8″, do you think I could begin to raise the bars to 10″? Should I do set point first at 10″ and how much of that should I do if that’s the case?>>
Yes, start with the set point at 10 and see how it goes. I am guessing it will be fine. But don’t start that til Thursday or Friday or later this week – he has done a lot of jumping this week, so we want him to be rested and not overdo it.
The backchaining of the balance grid is looking really good! That is definitely something to revisit over the course of the next couple of weeks. He is looking a lot more balanced on those last 2 jumps!
The wing wraps in front of the jump – it is subtle, but this is a hard game for him. He is doing it correctly but definitely looking forward at the jump – big distraction 🙂 He isn’t collecting to turn. But… he is doing it correctly and that is a most excellent start!!!! Same with the 2 jumps – not quite as much collection as I know he will be able to give, but he is correct in wrapping versus Go-ing 🙂 It is normal that the dogs are surprised by the first or 2nd go rep, especially when we are behind him. But he sorted it out nicely too and was able to not lose the wrap skill.
On the threadle – when adding motion, you can set him up on more of a slice to the correct side of the jump, you put him in a hard spot – but he was a super good boy to get it! Yay! He was eye balling the toy but successfully executed 🙂 And yes, it is a perfect use of the in in verbal, so feel free to add it because he is doing so nicely.
>>I’m thinking that the next exercise on deceleration is going to be a challenge with his party of one episodes…it may take me forever!
Ha! That exercise is a challenge, in general! You can tie the distraction toy to a rope or something or trade him for a second toy or treat. It is a hard brain game for the dogs for sure! Have fun!
Tracy
Good morning! She did a great job with her wraps on the wing!! super successful. And the wrap versus go was indeed difficult as soon as you told her that the 2nd jump *was* a possibility LOL! (it is a verbal discrimination, so indeed really hard).
A thought to help make it easier: One thing I noticed on that second video was that the verbals sounded similar on several reps, it was hard to make out the difference. So to help the discrimination element, you can add in to your verbals varying tones and volumes. For example, my Go cue is loud (the next county can hear it) and repeated as a long tone: GOOO! GOOO! GOOO!! and the wrap cues are much quieter/shorter (choochoochoochoo) It helps the pups differentiate based on the volume, tone, and the actual word 🙂
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!! He is starting to pick this up nicely, you can really see it coming together on the 2 jump set up. He needed you to move more and be a little closer on the first rep, which you did in the next reps, and he totally got it.
Throwing earlier sometimes will help too, to keep reminding him to look forward (and not run into a wing…poor guy). You can also balance with sometimes calling his name right before he enters the tunnel, doing a front cross and rewarding a turn on exit and driving to you (not taking jumps).
Good job with your verbals, nice timing and repetition!! And connection looked strong too 🙂 We will build on this very soon 🙂
Great job!
TracyHi there!
Your head was a little cut off on the first video, but it looks like your should ers were closed forward, so she was looking up at you. Try opening up the connection back to her, left arm back and make eye contact (as you run and yell go :)) to support the line. You got it by running faster (always a good thing!) but we can also get it with more connection there. Even when she did get it, she was looking up at you.Now compare the shoulders in video 2 to video 1 – you’re definitely more connected, right shoulder dipped and a little back ,so she is picking up the line beautifully! And I am sure that you got lots of rewards in on the jump too, which totally helps 🙂 Yay!! Try adding more connection to her when she is on your left and see if she can pick up the line as nicely as she did on your right.
Nice job!
TracyHi there! I think he did a great job here! I agree that teaching distance is an EXCELLENT skills for all venues!
Question: you did Go for one jump then switched to Go On for the 2 jumps – was that because they are 2 different verbals (one jump versus a line) or just an evolution of verbals?
He did really well with you lateral and fake running – and that is great because you can really emphasize the verbal while resting your Achilles! He appeared to have no questions. You can add in 2 things:
some balance on the tunnel exit: right before he enters, call him (or use a left or right cue) and do a FC so he turns on the exit and does not take the jump after the tunnel (driving to you instead),
You can start yourself less ahead of him, so he drives ahead of you. For example, when he exits the tunnel, you are relatively close to the line and near jump one, so he drives ahead. Then you can get closer and closer to the exit of the tunnel on other reps, so he learns to drive further and further ahead of you, first on one jump then on 2 jumps.Nice work here!
Hi again! Very nice on the threadles and also a very nice serp balance at the end! Your upper body was perfect (it is so hard to NOT move, right? LOL!)So now, you can start to change her angle, so she is coming in from progressively harder and harder angles around the clock (still balancing with serps sometimes). And, on the easy angles, you can add in some motion: say the cue and very slowly start to move towards the reward, with your upper body still frozen and feet moving forward (it will feel bizarro haha!)
Nice work, let me know how it goes!
TracyYay! The backchaining is looking good! Each time you add another jump, you might have to go back to the back chaining to remind her to stay chill haha! She was considering NOT using her hind end on the last interval on the last rep – but she did use it and she was a good girl! Yay! Nice work. You can move up to the 5 jumps if you have enough room, but definitely back chain that.
T
Hi there!
>> It’s easy to forget to train the “easy” stuff and focus on the “hard” stuff.
So true! Training fast lines and acceleration on the space between jumps and being able to send the dog away – that is the SUPER important stuff, but so totally NOT the sexy stuff haha!!! So all the sexy stuff gets the airplay online and in seminars (guilty as charged here) but I have found that it is easy to teach turns to a dog that loves to go fast. We have new technology on that! It is hard to teach speed to a dog that is always waiting for a turn cue (I learned that one the hard way…).
>> I have had to work pretty hard on Robie’s toy play during training. He used to either lose interest completely fairly quickly or become so stalky that he couldn’t even do a nose touch.
Yes, I remember that! Well done to you, building it up and working through the stalkersons!
>> We can now do entire training sessions for just a toy, or easily switch between food and the toy.
Ah, congrats, the Holy Grail of Agility Training is in your hands!
>> I am having the most trouble when the toy is in my hand for longer periods of time and I am moving (like with the rocking horses.) I know you have said to use a lower value toy, but I am worried that I will ruin what I have worked so hard for, lol!
I understand the concern!!! When the toy is in your hand for longer periods, does he lose focus on the work and just focus on the toy? If so, it might not be a toy issue, it might be more that your sessions are simply too long (how old is he? 11 months? Male? hmmmmm 🙂 When Voodoo was that age, 60 seconds was a marathon session LOL!!) It also might be that you need to reward more often in the session – if the rate of reinforcement has dropped (because you are doing a lot of reps and not enough rewarding) then he will get frustrated/aroused and potentially try to grab the toy.
So – shorter sessions, more rewards. He is a baby dog still so we have time on our hands.
You can try a few other things – have a toy in your hand and one in your pocket – the toy in your hand just lives in your hand, and you reward from your pocket toy. Value can be similar. The toy in hand can be low value and the pocket toy can be high value! Or keep switching.
On other thing that I see *all the time* with baby dogs is that when our connection breaks (meaning, we look forward or we assume they understand a cue so we are too ‘soft’ in connection) – the toy-driven ones come in to try to grab the toy. And people think the toy is distracting or the dog is naughty (never!) but in reality, our connection was poopy so the dog didn’t know what to do. So it is possible that you need to connect a LOT more, really exaggerate it, assume nothing 🙂
As far as low value toys… you can make any toy high value by moving it around and throwing it. You don’t have to always use the insanity-inducing toys haha! And you can also raise the value of low value toys by getting play on them then rewarding with the high value toy.
Feel free to pop some videos in of this happening so I can see what might be going on. I love to look at toy play.
>>I’m sure that is just stupid, but there you have it!
Not stupid at all! A valid concern. Puppy training is rife with worry and insecurities LOL!!! I have 2 youngsters right now, so I feel your pain.
>>Also, one question on the Threadle. Can you clarify what you mean by a Threadle/RC cue? Thanks! We are having so much fun in this class.
So, think of a normal threadle, your “in in” – that is a threadle slice. The dog comes in and then slices over the next jump. A threadle/RC aka threadle wrap is when the dog comes in and wraps the other side of the jump – not the slice side – so the dog ends up doing almost a full 360. I think OneMind dogs calls a similar move a “flick” but that is more of a handling description.
Onwards to the video!
I am happy with his speed! And great job balancing with some turns out of tunnels – You can use directionals for that, not just his name (your loose turn words)
When you say go, especially as you add more jumps… keep saying go 🙂 With verbals, feel free to slather them all over the line like cream cheese on a bagel – Go Go Go Go! Don’t be quiet 🙂On the tunnel-one-jump reps: you are throwing too early now 🙂 Connect more to his eyes on the tunnel exit, say go, keep saying go…. when he exits and looks at the jump – then throw the ball. It will mark the choice rather than be a bit of a lure (and also he will not run around the jump anymore if he has to look at it and move towards it to get the reward.
When you add more jumps, spread them out more so he has room to do a one-stride. These were a little close, so he sacrificed the jumping in favor of speed (dropped a bar at :46 and did something flingy on the last rep). So, have the 2 jumps 15 feet apart, really low bar, and see if that sets up the one stride. And, be connected as you drive up the line – keep saying go, but say it to him with your head turned to his eyes. This is likely to make it hard to throw the toy, so ask Shane to do it or leave it out there and balance with turns on the tunnel and a reward in your hand.Nice work here!!!!
TracyHi there!
On the 2 ladder grid videos – I think he is not sure of how to set his hind end and stay balanced at top speed, so he is getting off balance in the last interval (regardless of distance) – it doesn’t feel good, he doesn’t know how to fix it, so he says “screw it!” and flies over them LOL!!! So, we can help him out – backchain the grid over the course of several sessions. Leaving the 5 jumps up in a line (4.5 feet or 4 feet, I am not if it matters yet) – start him in the gap between jumps 4 and 5. Release, reward. Do that maybe twice. Then on rep 3, set him up between jumps 3 and 4, close to jump 4 just like it is jump 1. Do a couple of reps there – do he use his hind end properly and stay balanced? Yes? Cool! End of session. 4 or 5 reps, tops.Then, give a day off…. revisit in 2 days and start with a review: set him up between 3 and 4 just like you ended on previously. Do 2 reps- if he says, “yes, no problem!” we go back another interval: set him up between 2 and 3, close to 3 just like it is jump 1. Do a couple of reps. If he struggles… go back to setting up between 3 and 4.
And every other day or every 3 days, back up to the next interval, until you are sitting him in front of 1. Remember to resist the temptation to do too many reps or to jump him every day – nothing is gained from fatigue. Always start each session with a reminder rep or two of where you left off.
If he really struggles, we can give him more room between the last 2 jumps – it might help him put himself between 4 and 5, but it won’t necessarily help the balance on the other jumps in the line, so it is not my first choice.The pinny is looking good! I think it is wide enough that he can’t bounce it any more, and that is perfectly fine. We will be expanding on it – the goal here is to work the left and right verbals and that looked good 🙂
Nice work!!Tracy
