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Hi!
The threadle slices look great! Only one suggestion as you add the sequences:
Run toward the exit wing more rather than running straight forward past the entry wing – that is one way to help the dogs differentiate the slice versus wrap: direction of motion (more on that below).
You did more of the running toward the slice exit wing at 1:05 but it can be even closer to the jump.Onwards to the sequences!!
Tracy
Hi!
>>He was supposed to take #4 jump, then the right hand side of the tunnel, then take #4/6 again. I thought afterwards that maybe I should have sent him to the jump with him on my left and then turned him “back” to the tunnel.>>
I thought maybe it was the jump? But your line said tunnel and the judge didn’t raise hands, so….. 😁
>>I definitely need rear cross work.
I agree that a decel and brake arm can turn him on the spread to face the jump before the tunnel, then you can RC that jump Think of rears as:
If you are ahead, set the turn with decel and then run to the center of the bar as he is passing you.
If he is ahead, run to the center of the bar 🙂 No decel needed in most cases.>>I’m starting to use verbals with Ivan now (but not on his running contacts) to help me remember to use them with Bacon.
Thanks for your help with timing and getting me t use verbals.>>Perfect!!! I am sure Ivan is a willing participant. And Bacon is so fast, I think verbals will make it easier to handle him 🙂 And Border Collies generally love verbals!
Have fun!
TracyHi!
Looking at the hot topics sequences:
>>Should I be concerned with how wide she’s turning?>>
No, not concerned. I think she is doing brilliantly! She was turning beautifully on the lines that were cued for tight turns, like the 180s and the wraps. The side changes and some of the jump before the backside pushes were wide, but that was more of a handing clarity thing and not a dog turning wide thing 🙂
Here are details:
On the side changes (like the BC for the threadles), your shoulders are closed forward so she cannot see exactly where to be: no clear connection, and she cannot see your shoulders. I am sure you can see her, peripherally, but that doesn’t mean she can see the connection.
Bear in mind that she is behind you AND small, so if your shoulders are closed the exit side info is unclear. That is causing her to stay on her line until the info becomes more clear, either by the next obstacle becoming visible, or clearer connection.
You can see it at :08 and :23 on video 1, and I grabbed screenshots of :44 and 1:30 from video 2. Your head is turned! But she cannot see that… note how your dog side shoulder is parallel to your torso so she really only sees you back and no clear side info. She is looking at you and heading towards you, but doesn’t know which side to be on. And, unfortunately, dogs simply don’t cue off of our dog-side have being visible after a side change. I wish they did! But they cue off of visibility of connection and shoulder position, center of chest pointing to the line.
Here are screenshots, scroll through so you an see the visuals:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lEZYMvBbPa2sbqqJiIwvJ2NqCc73VJMUnHTaIZqAUQ8/edit?usp=sharingSo what to do?
Practice the exit line connection like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCJtPqgTRPE
And when running sequences, plan to run it like this so you don’t default to a closed shoulder.
Using the toy across the body to get connection and get your dog-side arm back and out of the way will get this info embedded in you and her turns will immediately tighten up because the info is visible much sooner.
A couple of the blinds were too early, she was exiting the tunnel and they were already in progress, so she correctly came to you ( :27 and :54 and 1:17). :43 and 1:30 (2nd video) were better timed but she was wide because of the closed shoulder info.
On the pushes to the backside – you will get a tighter turn on the jump before the backside with more lateral distance if it is a slice, and deceleration into the wrap position. And the brake arm should be directed back towards her – you did use it at :46 but it was turned away from her so I don’t think she really saw it. The backside circle wraps are nice and tight!
The threadle wraps worked SO WELL and she was nice and tight when you decelerated and allowed her to you when to leave (head turn and first step in the correct direction). If you moved away without decel or too quickly before she gave you *your* cue, she slices like at :46. In that moment – either keep going or reward because she is actually not incorrect (she had to choose based on available info).
Having her come back and having her sit then do it from right there assumes it was a dog error, and it is also not the same context that produced the question.
So it is better to keep going, reward something else, then watch the video and see what happened.
On the jumping course video: This went really well!
At :10 on the 3-4 line, you were pulling away without connection when she exited so she correctly followed your motion cues.
Keep going when there is a handling error – stopping and bringing her back assumes it was a dog error (it was not) and that can be frustrating to her.
Plus it is much better for you to keep moving and thinking on your feet rather than stop and restart after a bobble.
You made an excellent correction and had great connection 3-4 on the 2nd start… that really illustrates that it was not a dog error 🙂
The middle section looked lovely! She had a question on the threadle slice jump before the weaves: you can support the slice more by running parallel to the bar on the takeoff side until you ee her turning the correct direction. The line of motion did look like a threadle wrap as you pulled away.
rBut EXCELLENT job continuing
Nice weave entry! Wow!Gorgeous connection on the exit of the BC 11-12 at :38! I put it into the google doc. Do all of them like this 🙂
When she lands from 11 – decel into a brake arm turned back to her, so then you can peel away to 13. You accelerated towards 12 so she jumped in extension, which made the 12-13 turns a little wider.The RC on the flat into a wrap works nicely on 13-14-15 – add decel to tighten the wrap. And if you can leave 12 sooner, I bet you can get a blind on landing of 13!
She had a nice exit line too! It would be interesting to see how the turn looks with a brake arm on 17 being more to her face and less swooshy to the jump. It was a good turn but the brake arm detail might make it a great turn!
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! There are a bunch of options!
We can focus on the pop outs, live class games, and hot topics sequences – there is a lot of skill work in there and we can modify as needed, to fit her level and to fit your yard.The other option is to do MaxPup 3 instead, which is also currently running – tons of skills work there!!
Tracy
Hi! Looking at the 2 videos, the question she has is a legit one!
And she is loud and opinionated in her questions LOL!!!The jumps here were a serp line, which means the cue is having your arm back and eyes on her. That is because your shoulder and center of chest point to the line to the next jump.
What was happening was when she landed from the backside jump (which she found really well!), you were pointing forward to the next jump. That breaks connection and more importantly: turns your shoulders away from the line of the jump you want.
You can see it very clearly here on some screen shots. The first 2 are the cue she was seeing, so she was curling in and raging at you because you were moving to one line but shoulders turning to a different line. Then there is a comparison screenshot with my arm back and me looking at the dog, and he is looking at the jump.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IyAVWvnHKMA4M9-X4gUXYh1olKAt-wCHawF5DjmZBpo/edit?usp=sharing
That is the only thing to do differently! Keep your arm back and eyes on her. Everything else looks good!
Tracy
Hi!
Working these sections was really fun to see! And yes, I timed them to see the differences 🙂 If is really fun to see you two at the level where we are timing different strategies to see which is faster 🙂One timing note: he got the threadle line 9-10 nicely! You can give him the turn cue for 9 sooner so he is already turning, and start the threadle for 10 no later than lift for 9. That can get it to basically be a straight line!)
Looking at the weaves – in this video you were a little parallel to him and then later on a little ahead – I went back and compared the times on those to the previous video when you were hanging back behind him… he ws faster when you were parallel and a little ahead. And since you have a lot of foot speed and he has good independence on that turn away to the tunnel, I bet you can race ahead of him, flip him away, then run to the frame. That will be CRAZY fast!!
Looking at the end: the slice on the threadle after the frame set up the fastest possible ending, by a BIG amount (almost a second, depending on how I timed it). He read it and jumped it beautifully and your handling was lovely!
He threadle wrap at :52 is a good skill to work – he was a bit slicey on it, not really sure of the collection. I believe that was because you were in motion the whole time, which is similar to the threadle slice cue motion. Try adding a touch of decel into the threadle wrap to get the collection and see how he does!
The last run looked great 🙂 I am excited to see what you do with the brake arms, because those spots are the only spots to tighten up, everything else was fast & gorgeous 🙂
Great job here!Tracy
Hi!
I already looked at it and took notes, so I will post them anyway 🙂 Then we can compare to the next video and see if they were th same adjustments you made!Layering to the tunnel looked really good! You can use your tunnel cues sooner, before she even takes off for the jump before it you can be yelling the tunnel cues 🙂
Backside circles: also looking strong! You don’t need to help with landing 🙂 You can let her get past you and move forward again after she passes you – looking at he landing but not using an arm gesture for it
And don’t move forward til she is passed you so she can see the full wing and set up her collection
Moving forward too early like at :57 and 1:09 does look almost like a slice cue so her turn was not as nice.
The push to slices look good! Yay!
Blind to threadle slice: these are harder for sure. At first you were doing it as 2 blinds rather than blind to threadle, which made things more complicated.
Then it was hard to see which line you wanted, I think you had too many jumps involved 🙂
At 3:08 you layered into a forced front cross and it worked nicely! At 3:18 you were a bit too early on the FC and she came off the line.
And super nice job on last rep to get the backside not the tunnel.
It sounds like the new session went really well! The timing of the blind-then-threadle is tricky so it sounds like you locked it in! Yay!
Tracy
Hi! Lots of really good work in this video!
She is showing that she can learn very quickly and find lines really well. Her drive to the tunnel is fantastic and she was really getting those line like at 1:03, 1:22, and after that. Super!Her stay is also coming along nicely 🙂 and she is also committing to the tight wraps on the FC, like at 2:08. SUPER!
At the beginning, she did not know where to look in terms of the obstacles and was curling in towards you. I think we can change 2 things in the reinforcement which will answer all of her questions and get her looking at the lines on those early reps, not just after she has seen the sequence:
– you need to consistently use some type of ‘get it’ marker when she is looking ahead – a marker that means: keep looking ahead, reward is being thrown out ahead. The markers right now are all basically “yes” so she looks at you, you toss a treat nearby, and that reinforces curling in and looking at you as part of the behavior. A consistent get it marker will get her looking at the lines a lot better
This will also really help your lazy game!
– we need some type of reinforcement that is easier to throw or place on the lines so it is not near you and she is not looking at you when getting it. A lotus ball or treat hugger is a possibility! Or placing an empty food bowl out on the line as a visual aid can also help jump start the behavior. A throw toy or placed toy would be GREAT too, but will she bring it back relatively quickly?
The next step is to add the blinds nice and early 🙂 If you were late on the BC and she passes you on the wrong side? Keep going and just assume you were late rather than make her stop and come back to the side you wanted (2:30) – Shue jumped up and seemed to grab at your hand or bite you (frustration) after that because she was correct and it was a human error 🙂
When you were more timely like at 2:42, she read it well. Yay!
Great job!
Tracy
Hi! Nice session here!
The circle wraps are going well! You caught yourself moving forward too ealry on the 2nd full run, which does push her off to the #3 jump. But on all the others you held your position until she passed you and everything looked terrific: turns, jumping, line, etc. Super nice!
>>Did my best to sabotage her tight turns out of the tunnel by being out of position.>>
Ha! Yes – your tunnel exit was correct when she was too tight . You had really strong brake arms and verbals there and they were very timely so she turned really well. Then you were finished with the FC and in threadle position, so she was perfect! You don’t need to start the FC until she is out of the tunnel and sees the jump (on your left side) then you can go to the FC.
Great job!!!
Tracy
Good morning!
The threadle slice reps are looking good! He is understanding the concept for sure – the timing of the info on the last run was the best: at 1:12, at landing, he was already getting BC info for the BC. You probably don’t need to start the ‘in in’ verbal that early because we don’t want the in in on that jump. So it can be his name for the blind, followed by the in in as he is approaching takeoff for the BC jump – that will apply the in in more directly to the threadle jump.And you can run more directly to the wing of the backsde/threadle jump during the BC – if you move out to center of the bar then push back into the threadle, then he will possibly have to adjust mid-air and that can contribute to the bar coming down on the first full run there. Also, the timing on the run where the bar came down was later (the blind was happening as he was over the bar) so that also contributed – the earlier timing definitely helped!!
For the threadle wrap – this is officially the summer of Threadle Wrap Fluency! Oh boy, do we need them now! And the way it is being used in course design, it is soooo advantageous to have it!
You can work this skill on a lower jump height to help him get organized. Full height is pretty hard!
And decelerated motion also really helps:
If you decel and set up the wrap (like we would on all types of wraps), he gets it really well! Look at :48 to :53 and 1:58-201, for example – you changed you motion and that cued the collection and allowed him to process the cue.
Other good decels were atThen he gives you *your* cue to move forward again, which is when he looks at the bar AND takes that first wrap step in the correct direction (to the left here).
If you don’t decelerate and keep moving forward, like :57 – 1:00 then also later at 1:23-1:25, he has a conflicting indicator: go forward with motion? Or turn away? So he goes forward with motion (you decelerated after he was well past the jump).
Also, consistently placing the reinforcement on the landing side of the jump (tossing it after he commits while you move forward) will help a whole lot – he was getting his rewards mostly after the tunnel here which doesn’t help if your motion is not clear 🙂 So rewards for the jump specifically even as you move forward will really help!
Nice work here! Stay cool!
Tracy
Hi! Thanks for posting the run!
Nice long lead out – wow! He stood up but held his stay, good boy!
The BC to the first tunnel was a little late – he was already lifting for the spread when you started it – so he did read the correct line but it looks like he didn’t see the side change. The ideal timing on AKC distances for him would be to start the BC when he is over the 2nd jump so he sees it just about finished before he takes off for the 3rd jump. (He was supposed to take the tunnel as 4, not the jump, right?)Earlier info will help with the bars – like a clearer RC line after the frame, pushing into the center of the bar to get the left turn.
Did he self-release on the teeter a couple of times? You can reset him so you can show him the line to that pinwheel jump, to help smooth out that line – you were pulling away too soon so he was following that motion.
Nice weave at the end!! Nice job!
TracyI’m sure it will be discussed at camp!
If you are handling from the landing side of a backside, where she has to put the jump between you and her, it is a push cue. There are generally 2 push cues: push to slice (I say back) and push to wrap (I say dig)If you are handling from the takeoff side, where she has to come between you and the jump, then it is a threadle cue. And there are generally 2 threadle cues too: threadle to slice (I say close, but most people say in in) and threadle to wrap (I say in in on that one).
Let me know if that makes sense!
TracyGood morning!
Super nice practice here! A good warm up for the trial!!
<
> Yes! The verbals can come sooner but also, she was seeing you decelerate before the tunnel, and not moving on the exit. The decel/being stationary was causing her to collect, and that was definitely contributing to her turning towards you after the tunnel and collected between the jumps too.
So, along with the early verbal, use more motion:
As she is heading to the tunnel, let her see you start moving up the line (parallel to her line) so motion supports the distance line too. You might need to go closer to the tunnel so you have more room to run up the line without getting too far ahead on a small space like this.Great job here! Have fun at the trial!!
TracyHi!
I see what you mean about him having a struggle – there was definitely something pulling his focus in the environment, like when he exited the tunnel and lifted his nose in the air. It is possible he smelled or heard something, maybe fireworks or fireworks residue? Or maybe he needed a day off, because working in the heat can deplete brain and body. Hard to know, but you were wise to cut him some slack and let it go for the day.The reps here were really good! I liked his wraps! The collection cues were coming sooner, as he exited the previous jump. That allowed him go set up collection before takeoff and really bend over the bar. Yay!
One thing that is visible from this angle is that the tunnel entry near the camera is a little offset, so he would need to push away to get it. That is why he is a little sticky there. So you can factor that extra push on the line to help him, or more the jump out a little more so the tunnel entry is more on his landing line.Let me know how he does this weekend! It is hard weekend for dogs (heat, fireworks, etc) so trying things that are fast and fun might be most helpful.
Great job here!
Tracy
