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Hi!
This was a super nice run and you totally supported her!The opening was FANTASTIC.
After the second tunnel, it looks like yes, a tiny disconnect. I think the connection was harder there because she was on a jumping line towards the crowd, so her brain was a little split about what to attend to.
I think the same thing happened at :38 where she went around the jump – probably because it was hard to jump right towards the crowd there!!
I chalk that all up to baby dog lack of experience. You handled it really well – kept going, increased connection, etc. And ended well! So the more experience she gets in this environment, the more the runs will be amazing from start to finish like the opening was!!
You don’t need to change anything for tomorrow: you are in the ‘giving her experience’ stage so be as connected as you can to support the lines and run fast like you did here too!
Great job!
Tracy
>So if you look at commands according to which wing dog wraps. Do you use same command if dog wraps same wing regardless if you are on dog left or right?
If I understand you correctly, yes for many of them such as the wrap directionals, left/right, GO, etc. Those are all the dog’s left and right, not mine, and it doesn’t matter where I am.
>Or do you use different commands for your position relative to dog also?>>
There are some of those: my ‘switch’ cue for turning away then layering is relative to my position. The ‘get out’ cue is also relative to my position. The threadle cues and backside push cues are also somewhat relative to position, so they know where to put themselves relative to the jump.
Here is a list of almost all of the verbals to consider:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jUcpOWAJZVdfatow31w5rqS8-2FX0zCfRZX9zqTA-oQ/edit?usp=sharingHave fun!
Tracy
Hi!
Because she is still learning it, she needs more motion support:
Drive more to the center of the bar as you are giving the verbal and arm cues. This will help your feet point to the correct line too (to the backside entry wing).On the first couple of reps you were not moving much, so the backside cues were not as clear.
At :10 when you started from the tunnel and had more motion: lovely! At :16 she got it with you all the way across the bar! You can throw the reward earlier there so she looks at the bar as you move forward.
On the reps a :21 and towards the end when you got the front of the jump, you were walking and your feet were pointing to the front side of the bar.
Even a little extra motion at :25 and :29 helped here get it. I don’t think you need to be as far across the bar yet – you can be running a bit more towards the bar as that will really support the backside and you’ll also be able to easily get pat the exit wing.
After the balance rep, the backside cues were not as clear: you were moving less and your feet were pointing to the front of the bar. On the last rep, your feet were pointing to the backside wing and she got it. Super!
So the main things are to keep running and to be putting pressure towards the backside entry wing. This can be running more towards the center of the bar with your feet pointing to the backside wing.
Nice work here!
Tracy
Hi!
He was good boy on the teeter! He was like WHOA THIS THING MOVES but continued to work the board, which is great! Keep session like this with super high value rewards until he doesn’t care about the movement. Also, you can add in moving alongside the board with him (probably starting without tip at first).
Looking at the jumping on the sequences – for now, don’t mark bars or withhold reinforcement until we get more of your motion involved. What was happening was that you were standing still or moving only a little, so he had to look at you for more info or rely on verbals… and if the verbals or the other info was less, he was trying to adjust over the bar and sometimes hit the bar.
So intead of being relatively stationary…. Add some running! Motion is the most important cue, so the more you move (or decel into a turn) the easier it will be for him to keep bars up 🙂
In this setup, you can run more into the tunnel so when he is exiting, he sees you running up the next line. That will challenge you to stay connect, give timely motion info, and say the verbals, all while running 🙂 Wheeeee! I think it will all come together really well!
Nice work here!
Tracy
Hi!
She most definitely thinks it was MOST AWESOME FUN!! Yay! I am very excited for your future with her!
Well done on being connected to her on all of these. It is looking pretty automatic nowadays!!
>But probably good practice for what it’s going to feel like when she’s running faster and jumping full height.>
Good point – things will feel rushed at first until you really lock in the timing and connection.
On the video:
The circles at the beginning looked fabulous!
>The front crosses all probably were a little late as the turns weren’t super. >
Yes – on the left wraps, you were a little late and your decel can have more drama (really hit the brakes facing the jump). And the decel can start at liftoff to the middle jump, not landing.
I also think you’ll see more of a collection when the bar is a little taller!
On the right turn wraps:
Wrap to the right at 1:49 was very late, she was already organizing her takeoff when you started the cues. The next rep at 2:10 was a little late. The main thing here was you didn’t have decel on this side – you were getting to the wing and rotating. So remember to watch her approach the middle jump, decel as she is taking off, then rotateLooking at the blind:
>Struggled most with the tight wrap after the blind as she kept wanting to turn the wrong way. First time I thought I just didn’t have enough exit line connection after the blind, so tried to fix that on the second, but still turned the wrong way>
It was not a connection thing, but that is always a good place to problem solve!
>Then tried just sending her to the tight wrap with that angle of approach, rewarded and then she was able to get it. Might have never really sent her to a wrap from that shallow of an angle?>
Nope 🙂 And her getting it on the last run was because you handled differently, not because you showed it to you. She read you perfectly on all reps.
The main issue was a domino effect caused by you over-helping her find jump 3 (after the tunnel).
She turned on a new gear of speed for the blind cross!! So by staying close to 3 on the first couple of reps, you ended up foot racing her into the blind… so when you finished the blind, you were closer to the left wrap wing and blocking the rest of the bar, and didn’t have time to decel – you rotated immediately which were left turn cues at 2:33 and 2:52.
When you added the post turn, you were backing up into it which cued the left turn. She is really paying attention to all of your cues!
So why did she get it so nicely at 3:35, the last run? It was because you really did not help her as much at 3 – you were further ahead for the blind- so you were able to clear the line and send her to the right turn wing. Yay!
The big takeaway is that you can trust her more on the lines a long as you are connected (you were!) and that way you can get further ahead to great blind cross position.
Nice work here!
Tracy
Hi! Pop out 5 went great!
2 small details:
At :28 and 1:04 on jump 3, you can totally send him to it (no need to get right to the wing) then as soon as he passes you, move forward to the next line. He wrapped really well but slowed down because you stuck around to get the wrap, so he didn’t quite see what to do next to get the next line.
I liked how well he read the threadle wrap!!! He dropped the bar at :38 and it was because you started backing up. He didn’t drop the bar on the next rep – you backed up less, but ideally you don ’t back up at all. When you cue it, you can be stationary until he turned to begin his wrap, then move forward to the next line. The backwards steps show motion the wrong direction which is why he hit the bar on the first run.
Everything else looked great!
>I played with turning to the right at jump 3 in Pop Out 6. It was “easy” to handle, felt like quite a bit longer distance than doing it with a wrap to the left. Need to edit the video and then compare times. I think I need to time from Jump 2 to either 5 or 6 to get the whole picture on the time difference?>
Yay, I love timing things! Yes, compare the time from takeoff for the jump before the turn, to a couple of jumps down the next line (maybe to landing of 6) so you can see how the turn changes the bigger picture.
Nice work here!!
TracyHi! She did really well here!!! She is reading the lines really well – other than a “wait gotta pick up that cookie” moment or two 🤣 she really only had a few questions.
And those questions were all related to exit line connection, meaning she could not see which side of you to be on when exiting a turn.
Here are the 3 questions she had:
Exiting the wrap on 5 at :18, you had your shoulder closed to her so she had a big question about where to be exactly.
At 1:03, the blind cross still going as she is over the bar making it a little late, but the main thing was that as you finished it your dog side shoulder was a bit closed so she had a question about which side to be on.
The timing of starting the front at 1:37 was better! But she had a similar question about the exit as she did at 1:03 – that was because as you finished the FC, the dog side shoulder was closed forward.
The closed shoulder blocks connection, so she doesn’t always see which side of you to be on. Easy fix! Use exit line connection, where the dog-side arm reaches all the way back to her nose and you can exaggerate that by putting the opposite arm across your stomach which also pushes the dog-side shoulder back top open up the connection.
Here are visuals of those spots, so you can see what I mean by a closed shoulder:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/13G9Ci1M-8y7VW6A9l6XsiIcCBCXka1kgqE5ui0jO_HY/edit?usp=sharingNice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
>WOW, the ISC AKC Trial I went to this past weekend had regular Masters courses with 3 backsides in them and close together. One course had a backside after a dog walk to a tunnel under the dog walk to a back side out of the tunnel to one front jump to another backside jump to an A frame. >
Fun! It is the stuff people practice vat probably are not used to seeing in trial. Were those challenges set at regular AKC distances? They are not really meant for AKC distances…
>Alonso did all his backsides but when he had to jump and turn with a wall in front of him, he knocked a bar. We also disconnected due to a pole in the way and a piece of the wall jump came down. I wasn’t quick enough with my cues for one course and he took an off-course jump. We failed 5 runs but then for the last run of the weekend we got it together and he nailed it. He was the only one to qualify in his regular 20” height class. >
Yay for Alonso!!! It sounds like he did great, even in the NQ classes.
>Mookie Q’ed in 5 out of the regular 6 runs we were in but we failed the last run of the weekend because I ran out of gas and lost focus after my great run with Alonso.>
Wow, well done to you and Mookie! Those are hard challenges to get 5 out of 6 Qs on!!
>If I hadn’t been doing camp with you all these years, I don’t think we would have done as well as we did. I always practiced all the skills but never tested them all until now >
Well you’ve certainly done your homework so it is really fun to be able to use your skills at a trial!
>Mookie nailed both of them. After the trial they were easy for Mr. Moo.>
You and Mookie are really such a smooth team now. Well done!!!
>As for Alonso, for course 1 I had set up an off-course jump right after jump 11 9 3 and he took that instead of going into the tunnel after the BS at 3 for his first run. He was fine second time through but I used close close arms so he didn’t take the off-course jump. >
That is good to know – the added arm cues got the collection he needed to get the line and not the off course!
>Course 2”: I am teaching the “close close” cue which I had taught Mookie one summer so he stays on the right path i.e. 5 to 6 and not 5 to tunnel. I need to learn how to cue faster and teach the cue that will take him off a line. I tried calling his name and it seemed to work better than the “close close” verbal. Do you have other suggestions for verbal cues?? >
One thing to consider is putting turning cues on obstacles *before* the threadle obstacles (like tunnel threadles). A directional or a strong name call on the previous jump, for example, can get him turning and into handler focus. My guess is that he didn’t process the ‘close close’ cue in time or your motion supported the incorrect line so added turn cues on the line before it will totally help.
Have fun with the rest of Package 3 and with the herding clinic!!!
Thanks for the update 🙂
Tracy
Good morning!
I am glad Enzo got to play!
Super good boy Casper on pop out 1! His feet seemed to be facing jump 2 but your position was squarely saying to take jump 1, so he did.
He read the turn at 3 really well! The dig verbal helped him and you can also use a threadle wrap verbal. In this context you could easily face him to get it. In other contexts, you might need to be facing your next line so you can keep facing forward and cue it with hands/verbal rather than turning to him.
Nice job getting the backside at 5! You can tell him about 6 sooner (as he is approaching takeoff for 5) so he doesn’t look at you.
On the 2nd pop out – nice threadle slice on 3 on the first run! You can make it look more different from the threadle wrap cues by reaching back with the dog side arm rather than pulling downwards with it – that is similar to a forward facing threadle wrap cue.
That will also help at :44 where you closed your shoulders forward and he (correctly) thought it was a serp to the other side of 3 and not a threadle, and splatted the jump trying to adjust.
You started to get further and further from 3, so he was asking questions. The line on the 1st run was correct, just needed more a bit more upper body rotation back towards him with a threadle arm extended back.
He didn’t quite use his rear at :29 for the backside wrap. He was better at 1:04 and 1:24 but still not really pushing from the rear so he was a bit wide. You can help him by cueing the backside there with 2 hands to ask for more collection. And do you remember with Enzo we had Enzo sit before taking off for this kind of wrap? That would be a good one for Casper now!!
And for the 6-7 line, brake arms to ask for a little bit of collection can smooth that out too.
>As you can see, my lead out at an angle is not very good. He understands “look” but if the angle gets too steep, then he won’t stay in the proper position. I suppose I really should go back and re-teach his stay.
> Yes, a don’t move your feet stay is easiest for this, but also him reading the line when you are facing the first jump is great like he did in pop out 1.
Nice work here!
TracyGood morning!
>Ok, so backside slice I can say back and then do the blind that doesn’t need a separate command? >
If you are pushing to the backside slice and then doing a blind, the back verbal is all you need (the handling cues the blind). The only need for an additional blind there would be if you were so far away that you could not show any handling.
The backside circle would be the different verbal to push to the backside where she enters and exits on the same wing.
>Backside threadle with dog starting on left needs a separate command? Correct? I will use “me me”>
The threadle slice and threadle wraps should have separate verbals, yes – for me, I look at it in terms of which wing the dog enters and exits on: enter and exit on different wings? Threadle slice verbal. Enter and exit on the same wing? Threadle wrap verbal.
You’ll end up with 4 verbals for the backside – 2 for when you are handling from landing side and 2 for when you are threadling to takeoff side.
>What is the move called where dog is on your right and you threadle wrap them to the backside with off side arm? I say “choo choo” for that. Our last show had at least one to three of these in each class. Was designed by British Judge Neils and he did AKC classes as well as ISC classes and his AKC had backsides and those moves in them. You can imagine the regular AKC people, they weren’t happy, ISC courses were great.>
I think you mean a threadle wrap here, where she would enter and exit on the same wing.
I am surprised that people were surprised that a British judge would have more international courses LOL!! The premier course here was nice!
This was a really great run on a challenging course! She only had 2 questions:
At :17, you stepped forward into the FC as she was landing, so it looked like your right foot indicated the tunnel.At the end, going past that jump… it looks like the line after the double was to the backside of that jump, so you would need to be calling her before the double to get the turn. This happened in one of the courses earlier this summer, where she needed a strong name call to get that last line. Plus she was running into visual “clutter” of the pole, the ring wall, ring exit, etc, which can draw her attention off the jump. So definitely look for lines like this at the end so you can be calling her to get the jumps that look obvious but might not be.
Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
I agree, he was great with ALL the things on this video! Yay!!
He was a good boy on that teeter! He totally noticed that the board had different movement to it – it looks like it is lighter than other teeters so probably ‘whips’ differently. But then on the 2nd rep he was fast again, so exposing him to all the different teeters is definitely helpful.
The handling game is looking GOOD!!!!!!
When you are quiet, he looks at you on the tunnel exit (good boy) so right before he goes into the tunnel, you can use a ‘go’ to get a straight exit, then switch to your wrap cue for the wing before he exits (or the soft turn cue, I think you were saying ‘whoa’ here). He was responding perfectly so the only thing to smooth out is getting him looking straight on the tunnel exit.
He was a lazy game superstar here too! No toy obsessing 🙂 Your connection was clear and he is getting used to the bigger distances, so he found his lines with no problem. Toy in hand or toy on the ground were both easy for him. Super!!!
You can move into the handling sequences using this setup.
Great job!
TracyHi!
He did great here! You totally did it right.The hardest part for us humans is to not change motion – when you were staying at the exact same level of motion, he was not as sure and he would stop but not sit as quickly.
When you slowed down a tiny bit, he sat quickly. So to fade out slowing down at all, you can be walking sooooo slooowwwwllllly the whole time, almost shuffling along – and when you say sit, don’t change anything 🙂 When he gets very snappy with that, you can add more and more motion (eventually you can build it up to running!)
And you can also add doing this with a toy, but you might have to start with really boring motion, such as marching in place 🙂 because the toy is more exciting than the food 🙂
Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
>First using more than one ball worked perfectly with Max. >
Great! It helps to think of it all as coming to an agreement with the dog rather than fighting with the dog 🙂
>. And instead of doing the teeter foundations I just included a video of the things we’re working on in your independent teeter class.>
That is perfect! The teeter work is going well!
On the mountain climbers (uphill game), he especially loves it when you run too :). You can keep adding more and more tip to the board. Have you added any rear crosses – stay close to the wing wrap and as he exits the wrap, you cue the teeter but rear cross it as he passes you.
On the elevator game – I like how he starts shifting his weight when you say feet, even before you drop the board. Yay!
after yo say ‘feet’ and drop the board, you can start adding motion by slowing walking forward, staying in motion until the board has landed and he has decided to remain in position.Great job!
TracyHi!
Very nice session here, she was looking for the backside more without you needing to step to it or be near the wing! You were very quickly able to get the angle of the jump back to the original position to make it a true backside, while continuing to reward on the landing side. Super!!!
> My hand cues are far from subtle but I think that is what she needs to change her trajectory, lol. Maybe they can be more subtle over time?>
The don’t ever need to be subtle 🙂 They can be big and loud forever! It will make the cues look very different if the front side of the jump is subtle and calm, and the backside is big, loud, and more intense.
Remember to look at her eyes very intensely for the backside cue, almost as if you are mad LOL If you looked at her normally, she didn’t go to the backside as well.
>It is pretty obvious she has made her mind up as she goes in the tunnel >
Yes – before she enters the tunnel, tell her how you would like her to exit. In this case you don’t need wait til you see her exit the tunnel before starting the backside cues. You can already have your arm up and be saying the verbal right before she enters, so it is happened as she exits. The last 3 reps had you showing the info well before she exited, so she went to the backside brilliantly with you all the way across the bar! Super!
For the next session, you can do a similar setup but switch sides, to work this on your right side. That way we can be more sure that she is going to the backside on cue and no because she remembered the setup 🙂
Great job here!
Tracy
