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Good morning!
> Took a few days break with her she had a three day dog show some days with 5 runs and a seminar. We weren’t super successful at the show.>You’ve been busy! If you have videos for the show, post them so we can see where the questions were and how to fix them, to get more success at the next show 🙂
Looking at the backside video:
This was a really good session!!! Keep throwing the reward to the landing side as you add more and more speed and independence (and blind cross exits) so she continues to look for the bar and not as you as you run through.
The wrap seemed to be harder as you added more motion. I think there were 2 reasons for that:
– I think part of the reason she was slicing or not taking it was that the jumping effort of taking the bar in collection without extra help from you is REALLY hard. So as you add more and more speed and bigger sequences with the backside wrap, the bar on the backside wrap jump can be a little lower especially on the first approach to it, to make the jumping effort easier for now.
– It sounds like your verbal for both approaches to the backside is ‘back’ and for the wrap you were adding ‘check’ but the check verbal was happening after she was having to make a takeoff decision. So she was having to wait to see physical cues, which will definitely impact the backside wraps on full courses. Rather than stack the cues (“Back check”) it is better to have separate cues 🙂 The backside wrap and the backside slice are very different behaviors, so we treat them accordingly with different cues. And that way you can deliver the info earlier: when she is at the previous jump, you can be telling her if it is a slice or wrap on the backside, so she can set herself up independently without waiting for more info.I know it is a pain to add another verbal 🙂 but it will be totally worth it!!
Nice job here!
Tracy
Good morning! This went really well!! And it was perfectly fine to start with course 2 🙂 The walk through and the runs were pretty similar plus there was some useful info from him.
>and I never quite know what speed of dog I’m going to get but usually slower than I think), then run 2x.>
It is good to be able to run the walk through faster than the actual speed as long as you can keep the connection and timing and handling and verbals 🙂 It is important to remember that he has a lot of yardage to do when you send and takeoff to the next line, which is why is feels different or slower. More on that below!
Good job working the connection and verbals in the walk through! The verbals can be done in the same energy/pitch/volume as the real run, even in your slow walk. We do this to begin to program ourselves for the real run 🙂 I loved your connection to the invisible dog at the exit of the first tunnel 🙂 You can make the exit of the 2nd tunnel just as connected, it looked a little less connected in the walk through and that is a critical spot to be able to get him to the backside.
The runs went really well!
Going back to the concept of him having a lot more yardage than you do so the speed of the run feeling different from the walk through: on the opening line where you both ran the same yardage, I think your walk through and real run speed basically matched! The send to 3 and distance to 4 is where it might have felt different – you could send and go directly to 5 there, but he had to run all of that yardage to meet you at 5. Plan for that, which will mean you can get ahead pretty easily using your sends!
That is what bit you at the end of the first run – you were able to send him to the 6-7 line which puts you way ahead on the tunnel exit, and that I where you lost a little connection and he didn’t know where to be. On the 2nd run you adjusted so you didn’t get as far ahead and got the connection to the backside after the tunnel. Yay! I think he prefers when you are a shade closer to the line there anyway – when he is working the 6-7 line and you are way ahead, I think he was having to think harder than needed about staying on the line and knowing where you were going. When you were a little closer on run 2, he seems to be able to devote more resources to running fast and didn’t have to think about where you went as much 🙂
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
Hooray for good weather and feeling good all happening at the same time!! MUCH to be happy with here!This was a really challenging session here but I think it went really well! Casper really seems to enjoy this type of ‘work’ and you did a great job breaking things down (giving hints😁) when things were really hard. The right turn away from the weave/tunnel setup was probably the hardest part!
He did well with the weave and tunnel cues coming from the DW. Being able to do weaves while layering a tunnel is a BIG win – this skill is getting super popular and I know you will able to use it in AKC JWW and Standard too!
The timing of the cues can come one stride sooner: you were giving them as he landed, but I think giving the weave or tunnel cue as he is taking off will give him that extra stride to process the verbal. The discrimination can be especially challenging in the heat of the moment on a big course, so the earlier info can be helpful.
>I also did a bit of one jump discrimination work. In theory, all of these should be “in play” on a verbal: 90 degree left, 90 degree right, wrap left, wrap right, switch (turn away), backside wrap, backside slice, threadle wrap, threadle slice>
Totally agree that these are all in play! And doing it with the tunnel-weave setup made it a bit harder (he was primed to go into the discrimination). The right turn away from it all was SUPER hard (I can see his point that it makes no sense to turn away from all of the obstacles!). And he needed help on the wrap: He collected like a wrap but then possibly assumed tunnel based on context? You can revisit the wing-tunnel proofing games from MaxPup 2 to refresh that skill of wrapping even with a tunnel visible.
He could get the backsides with you closer to the jump, but had trouble from the dog walk exits.
From that far away – you can try to push to the backside with the outside arm because dog-side arm as the cue opens up the possibility of you turning to the front by a fraction, so he comes into the front of the jump. But the outside arm exaggerates the shoulder position and is more visible when distance is added. And it is easy to fade once he has the skill. It would look like you connecting to his eyes to cue the verbal, and your outside arm pointing to the entry wing (as you move forward up the line).
Great job!
TracyHi!
Yes, gloriously cool here!!! Hope you’re enjoying your vacation!
>>How do I find the balance between running parallel on big lines and layering, and moving to the new line on a more extreme angle and trusting her to hold the line?>>
Part of it is running courses and analyzing 🙂 and part of it is just gaining experience. The verbals and line understanding will start to lock in more and more, so you’ll have a better sense of how early you can leave for the next line. You are 100000% on the right track, it will continue to get better and better!!! You’ve made enormous strides so quickly!
Have fun!
TracyHi!
I totally see what you mean here: if your connection and position aren’t perfect and you don’t step to the backside line, she’s likely to take the front. And we need to get her to commit to going to the backside before we work on taking the jump bar!So 2 ideas for you:
– you can angle the jump a bit, pulling the backside entry wing towards the previous jump and the exit wing further away. That way the line to the backside is easier to see (and the line to the front side is harder to see 🙂 )– she will probably do really well with a very intense connection as part of the backside cue. Have you ever tried using an outside arm to cue the backside instead if dog side arm? That would be looking right at her with the big connection as you say the backside cue, with your outside arm pointing to the backside wing. I’ll see if I can find a video of it!
I think if we can convince her to go to the backside, then everything else will lock into place. I’ll go find a video of the outside arm cue for ya!
TracyHi!
Let me know what you think of the jump class! I usually only recommend things with feedback, because Ven’s structure is different from a BC which is different than a Sheltie, etc. And conditioning and jumping are heavily influenced by structure and movement.I think a conditioning class would be cool for him too! Let me find some good ones with feedback if possible! So many don’t have feedback which makes it harder!
Tracy
Good morning!
She did well here!
>Thinking about why that might be I thought of 3 things that may have contributed…..the exercise is harder, requires more focus and more physically difficult jumping at the wrap; as much as she likes to tug I think it is a physically tiring thing for her and then there was a bag of treats on a shelf just outside of camera view. >
Yes to all of this, but I think the main factors were the treats on a shelf (she definitely had to think through that!) and more importantly… you were decelerating early at :31 and :53 (about a stride before she took off for the middle jump). So she was decelerating because you were decelerating 🙂 Good girl! You didn’t decelerate early on the last run but that is where she was devoted brain bandwidth to the treats on the shelf.
So you can accelerate for longer before the wrap – as she is over the middle bar, you can tart the decel. That should keep her driving forward into the wrap (which she executed really well!)
Nice work here!
TracyGood morning!
>That would be fun! How often do you practice, and how would I find out about when/where?>
We practice at Level Up, but not that often. I will let you know when the next one is!
>. It’s been a weak point for me because, as you said, it’s counterintuitive not to point at things! >
Do you remember the game where you ran with a water bottle in your hand (MaxPup 3) to keep from swinging your arms around? You can put a water bottle here in your dog-side arm with the backside pushes to help keep the arm back. And a little spilled water will feel nice with all this heat LOL!
>And the tandem turn into the rear cross was especially hard for me.>
Think of this as slowing down, showing hands, turning her away then you turn that way too. It is more of a dual facing the new direction than a rear cross, so the slowing down & turning her away can make it easier for her to see.
Opening line: – She might have been set up too close to jump 1 on the first run where she hit the bar? No trouble there on the 2nd run.
2-3-4 looked really strong!!
She got mad (on the first run) then was not sure about which side of the bar for a couple of strides on the 2nd & 3rd run (ended up hitting the bar of 5 on run 2) when you were standing still after tunnel 4 so you can move in closer to the tunnel and be in motion as she exits.
Blind to 10 at :18 needed connection sooner on run 1, but you got it sooner and clearer on runs 2 and 3! The BC is a little harder to get to there on time, so she was a little wide. You can keep her on your right side and do a threadle wrap on 12 too.
Pushing to the backside on 12 is where the big connection will help (:22). Your arm was back and you had more connect at 1:38 and she did a lot better!
:39 on the teeter – where you trying to get her further down? Keep rewardnf the skill
Nice job getting the 16 backside
The send to 17 before the dog walk at :44 and 1:49 should also be an arm back send – when you pointed forward, she had questions because the pointing changes the line of your shoulders & feet. Compare to 3:22 where your arm stayed low until after she passed you – great send there!!
The BC 19-20 might have felt awkward on the first run because you didn’t add 21 which makes the line nicer. You had the 21 jump there on run 2, which was definitely smoother! The wrap on that 2nd run worked well, but I think the slice you did on run 3 will ultimately be the faster line due to all the extension (and easier weave entry). You got the blind in really well there, you just needed a bit of decel as soon as you finish the blind to cue the tight turn on 21.
The weaves to the end looked great!
About the teeter:
>On the last attempt, she didn’t want to do the teeter. She showed me she can do the skill, so I had her do the teeter once without layering and then started after the tunnel. She may have just been getting tired, and that takes a lot of her brain power!>Yes, she has done a lot of reps of it and after the initial training, I don’t think she has gotten rewarded specifically for it so she was heading to where the rewards were (closer to you :)) So keep rewarding that teeter skill! Plus it is a lot of slam on the body, so you can limit the reps so she doesn’t get sore. It is one of the hardest obstacles because of the impact as it hits the ground, which the dog has to absorb to stay on.
Great job here!!
Tracy
Good morning!
These runs looked really good!
On sequence 1, you really emphasized connection, particularly on the send to 5 and she nailed it! Yay!
2nd sequence walk through:
Good speed here, I felt like you were running more at Taq speed!
Two suggestions to remember for the walk throughs, both involving the tunnel exits:Remember to tell her how to exit the tunnel, using a verbal before she goes in. A big GO works here and being quiet is a turn cue where she comes out looking towards you.
Remember to make connection and look at the tunnel exits – then maintain that connection through commitment to the next line. Usually tunnel exits require some important info for the pups, so being connected begins to provide that info especially when they see us before they exit the tunnel. Plus you will be able to see where she is going 🙂
The hard parts on the course were both related to the tunnel exits – more connection and verbal needed for the exit of the #2 tunnel. And I think you can connect more to the exit of the 8 tunnel before the backside so she knows to push away when she exits. You got her to the backside there thanks to foot speed 🙂 but you can see her zigzag a little there (taking a stride in off the line then going back out). Making connection as she exits the tunnel will make that smoother especially when you are not as far ahead.
Also be sure to connect then either praise quietly or take a breath, then release from the start line – she was starting to release when you connected after the lead out, because the releases have been happening at the same time as the connection.
Great job!
TracyGood morning! Very nice work here!!! Lovely connection and his transitions into the tight turns were great!
On the first run, you were backing up a bit on the send to 6 which pulled him off the line. You held the send really well there on the 2nd run and he had no questions.
The only spot he had a question was at 3 on the 2nd run. On the first run, the threadle wrap on 3 at :10 was really smooth!! He had a moment of hesitation on the 2nd run there at :45 – comparing the 2 runs, it looks like you were backing up at :45 which caught his attention so he checked in to see what you wanted. On the first run, you held your position until he committed, which was great!
So this sequence was a good reminder to hold the sends, don’t back up 🙂
>I couldn’t really think of another way to handle this one.>
The only other thing to try might e a slice on 3 so he turns right. You have room to do it here (the course map makes it look like it is not an option because there is not enough room within the size constraints. The slice will have more extension, but there looks to be more distance so it would be fun to try both ways (slice versus wrap) and time them to see which is faster 🙂
Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
The jump part was easy, it was right on her line after the wing wrap. Great job making the verbal sound really different!
>And she wasn’t exactly wrong either>
I agree, she was not exactly wrong about the tunnel, especially if you cue lines like “go tunnel” which includes the jump on the way to it. When she was on your left, that jump is on the line to the tunnel, good girl!
So to help make it more of a verbal discrimination (with a less obvious line) , you can move the start wing to be in line with the tunnel entry and jump. That way as she goes around the wing, she sees both the jump and tunnel, but the verbal will cue the individual obstacle you want. Plus, it will help her understand how to pass one to get to the correct obstacle, or come in to get one even if she really likes the obstacle on the other side of it 🙂
Nice work here!
Tracy
Good morning!
This is so fun! They were definitely similar reps – this type of thing is becoming a pretty common course challenge so it was really cool to see him layering! It has been maybe a month since you stared the skill and he seems very happy to do it!!Yes, the middle rep where he did not layer was because you sent to the tunnel then immediately pulled away, a bit disconnected. But the 1st and especially 3rd reps were great – he was very happy to go get that tunnel and layer the jumps! Yay!
The threadles were looking good to – putting them in context on a course made sense to both of you! Well done!
> I waited until I for sure saw his eyeballs looking at me or the proper side of the jump before I kept moving.>
Ha! Yes! Seeing his eyeballs definitely lets you know what his plans are 🙂
Great job!
TracyHi!
This went really well!
You’ve already got a good foundation because I know you’ve worked a lot of independent weave skills. That actually made finding the tunnel past the weaves harder, but he loves tunnels and did really well including finding the weaves at the end! Yay!
>Only one error but I don’t think I’m showing enough motion. >
These types of games should have an error or two in them – learning needs a little friction from failure (just a little) because that can be very motivating to get it right! A perfect session is nice but not as useful for learning 🙂
Based on where the dog walk is: send him over the dog walk, over the jump, then either the tunnel or weaves. You can use a big lead out and barely move – just kind of be strolling along the dog walk 🙂 All verbals! It will be harder but it will make things easier when you get back to running.
>One thing I did think of: I have been known to cue a major obstacle (contact) even though there is a jump preceding it. So, even though it should technically be “jump, climb”, I might just say “climb” on the grounds that you don’t need to cue every jump. I am noticing that cueing everything is back in vogue. For a while, there was “silent running”.
> Ah, the silent running days, those were awesome! Life was less complicated back then LOL!!! Every now and then I torture people in a seminar with silent running because it is important to have strong physical cues.
And yes, cueing everything has come back into vogue for some reason. I thought we had all gotten past that? LOL!
I think what you are describing is naming the line of obstacles rather than naming each obstacle.
I am totally on board with naming lines – it is very effective for really getting the dog to drive ahead independently. Also very effective for letting me breathe on course sometimes :). And I have been doing it with my dogs and recommending it with students for years with no fallout – the dogs do not run around the jump on the way to the tunnel if I don’t say jump. In fact, I think their acceleration is better because they are getting the full info earlier! And when I say “jump jump” it tends to keep the dog in handler focus which is useful for when I need that, as opposed to naming the line (GO TUNNEL or something like that that) which propels the dog forward.
Nice work here!!
Tracy
Hi!
It is fun that you live near NoLa now, it is a fun town with great people!
He did really well on this session!
>worked on increasing distance for that version of the lazy game.>
The distances were a great challenge!!
> He showed a little of the toy fixation in this one. He didn’t just go for it but he just froze and didn’t really try things (I think because he knows he can’t get the toy but also he can’t think about anything else)>
Do you mean the toy fixation was when he was looking at you and not going to the middle jump? If so, I think it was the distance blowing his mind a bit: you were not ahead of him or parallel to him (you were a little behind him, like at 1:09) and he was not convinced that he was allowed to drive *that far* ahead of you. Compare to 1:37, for example, when you were a step ahead of him at the first jump and he went to the middle jump with no problem.
He was good about bringing it back pretty quickly!
>I wonder if I should’ve gotten the food back out to encourage some thought?>
In this case, I support your choice not to bring the food in – he was not over-aroused and he was thinking… but he hadn’t quite solved the puzzle. He also was not getting frustrated. So if he is looking at you, you can change your position by a step or two to help him find the line and see how he does.
Nice work here!
Tracy
