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I can understand the hesitancy! We have to balance it with her being able to figure out the setup rather than learn the verbals. So as soon as we get a decent success rate (which we have here), we move on to a different setup that also relies on verbals. Plus, some of the handling games kind of negate the handling itself because it all looks the same… so the verbal needs to override it which is what we really need for the bigger courses.
> my husband said the same thing you did. I’ll have to tell him he was right….oy.>
Ha!!! His role as Head Videographer has given him a great eye for agility!!!!!
T
Hi!
> Otherwise, the real tugs toys don’t come back. I’ll try standing sideways to see if that helps. Maybe we can work on that and sends during our 11/13 lesson?>< We sure can! She is not likely to bring the real fur tugs back as a natural retrieve... the magic will be in the trading. She did well with the threadle wraps on the cone here in both directions! And she did well with lining up and waiting til you cued her to start. Yay! These cone wraps with cookies can get a bit too repetive and boring if you do a lot in a row... so try to tug after every rep or two. It might seem less efficient but it will result in overall better skills because it will be more engaging. She might getting a little bored at the end here, I think, and started checking out what was on the table. And for now, when you do ask her to tug: take all cookies out of your hand. She was not sure what to attend to with the cookies in the hand and the toy moving, so she didn't really tug. Compare to the end of the 2nd video where it looks like there was no food in your hands and she really got into the tugging. She also did well with the rocking horses! This is also a game that can be broken up with more tugging so it is not as repetitive with just food. >However, the food needs to be in a hand. She has trouble sending on the two sends as the food starts in the second send hand. Should I try to move it as she rounds the first cone?>
Do you mean switch the food from hand to hand? Nope, that can draw her focus to your hands, so either cue with empty hands or have cookies in one or both hands and she will go past them. She was overall doing a really good job with that when you were connected – I think on some of the reps she could not see enough connection on the sends so she didn’t move to the cone as smoothly. It is a little hard to see because the camera doesn’t show your upper body fully, but you can see the shoulder is closed and hair blocking your face at :59 and 1:29, where she had some questions. So looking further back (and maybe getting your hair behind your ears so it doesn’t block her view of your eyes) so she can see your eyes will really help!
Nice job here!
TracyHi!
>Also, I tried with the airpods in. That way you can hear the whole stream of consciousness that happens when I train. Well, I tried to cut out most of it…>
The sound was very clear! It will be interesting to see how it sounds if you can try it outdoors too.
>However, he was 100% in tunnel versus something else. Proud of that, anyway.>
Yes! He did really well!!!!!! I think the session went well overall. Two small adjustments will make it feel much smoother:
> I think 3 was because of the timing of the BC and backside slice command (and poor connection). >
Yes – if you can move the timing up, you will see he gets the info in time to make the adjustments. Ideally the BC is finished before he takes off for the first jump – because right before he takes off, he should already be seeing/hearing threadle or backside info. That means the BC starts basically as soon as he exits the wing wrap. And the BC being earlier will make it easier to show the next cues, especially the backside – adding more connection to him as he is taking off the the jump before the backside will help set the line without you needing to step to it as much.
One thing to make the timing easier is that I don’t think you need to call his name 🙂 You can go directly into the backside or threadle cues – often the “Casper” was happening when the BC or threadle verbals needed to be happening.
For example, on the rep from 1:15-1:19, your BC was the earliest and that made for the earliest around cue and he did great!
> I think 4 was because his understanding of “IN” is not as strong as it could be.>
Part of that was timing too – when you gave the in in verbal when he had already gotten onto an extension takeoff spot, he was not able to get back to the correct side of the jump after landing (like at 1:22) or he would hit the wing. So the threadle info needs to start sooner. On threadles that are *not* naturally on the dog’s line (this happens a lot in Premier), you can also add a turn cue on the jump before the threadle. For example on t his setup, as he exits the wing wrap you can be cueing a right turn on the first jump so he collects a bit. Then as he is approaching takeoff, go to your threadle cue. That will make for a better threadle because the info is earlier and he will be prepared, thanks to the turn cue for the first jump.
He was hitting the inside wing of the 2nd jump a lot and I htink that had to do with the verbal and physical cue conflicting (he was looking at you there). When you were moving up the line, the threadle shoulder/arm was a bit closed forward and perpendicular to the bar, and that was when he was hitting the wing. When you did it in isolation, your threadle arm was further back and parallel to the bar which supported the verbal and he did well with the jumping.
So as you do the threadle slice, really pull the threadle arm back and leave it back, because it cues both the come in and go out of the threadle.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
>Better, but still struggling.>
Great! The motto here is “Progress, not perfection” She is definitely doing better! This session was really strong and super challenging. She was highly accurate when you were standing still. When you added the handling without connection, she was also really strong – she was great until the end when she was picking up the jump – then picked up the tunnel behind you at 2:39 which was actually correct: that is where she was facing when you said tunnel LOL! Good dog!!!
My guess is that when she was going to the jump and not the tunnel it was possibly because you were blocking the line and she didn’t see it as a viable option. When you were further up the line on the previous reps, she could easily see both options and was correct with the jump and tunnel. When you were closer to the start wing, it is possible that your line was blocking the line to the tunnel so the only option she was saw jump-then-tunnel. Smart!! Next time you try it, move over a bit and see if she sees the line better.
But overall, this went great so you can move on to the other games. Great job!!
Tracy
Hi!
>Rear cross…instead of saying switch you use “right” and “left”? Which is what I say when I want him to stay on the same lead (keeping him on my same side) for right and left turns. If I were to use it for same lead as well as switching leads (RC), isn’t that confusing to the dog?>
It depends on what ‘right’ and ‘left’ mean. For me, the directionals are about the dog’s right and left: if I say “left”, I would like the dog to do a soft turn (90 degrees-ish) to his left, regardless of whether that is towards me or away from me… because I might not be close enough for him to clearly see my position. And I don’t want him to have to locate me first then make the turn. So it is not a lead cue – it is a pure directional for which way the dog should go. If it was always turning towards me, I wouldn’t need a separate right or left – I could just use the same word to mean “turn towards me”.
>So if I say “tight” for R wrap, then I would use some other word for L wrap?”
Yes – because it is his left and right, not towards you only.
>And using “back for backside slice is good but then something different for backside wrap?>
Yes – I use back for backside slice and dig for backside wrap. They are two entirely different behaviors so need different names 🙂 And again, different verbals makes it so that they don’t have to rely on seeing me clearly, or on the perfection (or lack thereof) of my handling cues 🙂
>Remind me what you use for backside circle wrap and L frontside wrap. Thanks.>
Backside circle is dig dig dig dig and the frontside wraps are noises: choochoochoo for wrap right, and tstststst for wrap left.
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Both the serps and threadles are looking really good! Your position was clear for both. He was happy to drive in to the hand target, even with the reward on the ground. Super!Ideas for next steps for both of these:
The threadle is easy to loop back from the reward target to start the next rep on a hard angle. You can use different angles of the cookie toss to get different start angles on the serp too
You can tug after every rep or two, to keep him more excited by it all 🙂 Or, use the toy as the reward target. He liked the food and all, but he really lit up when you brought the toy out at the end of the serp session.
The reward target can move further away on his line for both of these, so he can run to it a bit more – if that makes the cookie throws harder to aim, you can use the toy or a manners minder.
Because both of these went well, you can show him both the threadle and serp in the same session by changing your position and reward target And you can add your threadle slice verbal
For the head turn – I think he was not always sure if he should start or not, so you can give him cues to begin (an arm & leg step are perfect for it). When you did give him cues, he really drove to the cone! You can warm up with having him do the 2 wraps in a row to get the mechanics engaged, then go to rewarding that first head turn (and you can toss the treat fully around the cone so he finishes the wrap.
He definitely said the toy is more interesting 🙂 so you can play this game for the toy as the reward. And that adds a bit of arousal into the mechanics, which is actually ideal for him to learn to set up turns even when he is pumped up.Great job!
Tracy
Hi!
>We have been working on the pattern games, toolbox and volume dial>
Keep me posted on how she is doing – I am sure she is great with these!
The handling is going really well. One thing I notice is that she is very responsive to changes in connection and motion – so if you are correct, she does it! If you change your motion or connection so it looks like a different cue… she does what the motion/connection tell her to do. Good girl!!
>I have trouble with my left and rights…>
To help me get my lefts and rights when I first started using them, I walked the courses with the verbals and videotaped the walk through even if was just 30 seconds 🙂 Then I watched to video to check if I had the verbals correct or not LOL!! That really helped me get them right so I could be correct during the runs with the dogs too 🙂
First sequence looked great – lovely connection and motion!! She seemed to have no questions.
Second sequence: when you looked ahead at :15 she looked at you to see if there was a line change coming, and she almost pulled off the line.
One thing I think will help on a line like this, where it is basically a pinwheel: a verbal cue for that middle jump. Even if you just say “jump”, I think the verbal will help so you don’t need to be perfect in your connection or line.
And adding in a bit of verbal support for that middle jump can also help you with the next line – when you didn’t need to support it as much (like at :18), it was easier to get her on the line to the tunnel. When you supported it too much with motion (like at :31), the extra support caused you to get in too close to the jump before the tunnel and had to turn to get around the wing – and she turned with you, coming off the line for the tunnel. She really pays attention to the handling, good girl!!!
> she wrapped left on the last jump, I’d used my left wrap cue.>
Yes, I thought that was your left wrap cue! Watchng the video of you walking it will help you plan the verbals. Also, your motion cues were supporting the left wrap by facing that line until she was almost taking off. You can run more to the center of the bar to get the RC there.
Nice work! Stay cool!!!!
Tracy
Good morning!
>I’m with you on the idea that they see the off side hand better and I would probably continue with that if I wasn’t paying someone to give me feedback. No point asking/paying for advice then not trying it. lol! I’m still working on changing my evil ways, so my handling isn’t that precise, but he’s really learning to listen to the verbal to make up for the bad mama.>
So true, and Lee is definitely an excellent instructor! Deciding which arm(s) is really about a combination of handler preference and feedback from the dog. Many large dogs see the dog-side arm cue really well as long as it is distinct from the other dog-side arm uses. I’d probably use dog-side only if I didn’t have the smaller dogs telling me that can’t see it LOL
So that makes me ask the next question: what does your threadle slice arm cue look like? On the video here, the dog-side arm was moving back, which looks like it could be similar to a threadle slice cue… which might be why he was looking at you a lot on the first rep: “slice or wrap, human?” You might need to punch that threadle wrap arm downwards (straight elbow, closed fist) so he can differentiate. The 2nd rep also had decel, which really helps – most threadle wraps have an element of decel (even though I am not sure people realize they are decelerating LOL!)
On the 2nd video:
>I did notice I used a ‘go’ to get the tunnel on at least one of those reps so not really letting him make the decision from the obstacle name.>
One thing I have noticed is that the GO verbal can often imply the tunnel. A few years ago, course design made that easy and useful! But nowadays, I think it is biting people in the b*tt – we don’t want the dog looking for tunnels when we say GO 🙂 so yes, definitely add the tunnel word.
On the video:
He is doing well with this but I think we can also make the handling look the same on all reps to get him to really process the verbals (then when we do add the handling back, it will be the easiest thing ever!)
To do this, try not to change the speed of your motion or handling line (decelerating or turning more to face the one you want) at all for this game. Just kind of wander along the same line each time to challenge him to process the verbals and not rely on the handling here (you can draw a line in the sand so you are on the same line each time :))
On the first side, I think having to go past the jump to get to the tunnel was HARD so he slowed down to sort it out. Good boy! He will get faster with that skill as soon as he is more comfy with it 🙂
>Then we did the same thing on the other side – not sure if my cues were less clear or if it’s that he was past what his brain could handle or the occasional slow processing that I was telling you about. >
He might have been tired but also, he was mainly reading the physical cues here: when they supported the obstacle you wanted, he went to it. When they did not, he went to the obstacle they supported.
For example, to show how he was watching for handling:
He was on the line to the tunnel at :57 then you moved the toy from hand to hand so he looked at you and stopped heading to the tunnel.At 1:04 – you didn’t move much and big decel on the wing, so he took the jump: the verbal did not override the motion change.
On the tunnel sends, he went to the tunnel when you were facing it but to the jump if you were not.
This is good info!!! Might be a side preference (he seems a little better on the other side) or maybe he needs a bit of mental rest between sessions/side changes but taking a ‘lazy handler’ approach will help solidify the verbals for this game: the handling won’t really indicate anything with the same steady motion up a line parallel to the setup.
And since this game is so hard, balancing it with the handling games were you do get to run and connect and use physical cues will help solidify the verbals too, through rehearsing correct behavior in conjunction with the verbals.
>I love the reps when he started to go to the jump and corrected himself. Such a cutie and trying so hard to please.>
He is such a good boy and trying so hard to solve the puzzle! I love it!!
> Between these two videos I’ve used half my weekly time allowance but that was my session and I wanted you to see the whole thing.>
Don’t worry about that, I don’t really keep track LOL!!! As long as we are not over-working the dogs, we don’t need to track the exact time of submissions 🙂 The limits are mainly to get people to NOT submit 10 minutes every day (yes, people have done that and the dogs are exhausted!)
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hello! He is doing really well – this is such a hard game!!!
You have made big progress with this!! And your jump versus tunnel verbals sound very different, which is super useful.
One adjustment to make is to work on being able to hold him between your feet so you can say the verbal a few times before you let him move. When you did that (like at 1:19 and 1:54) he was at his most successful. He was getting good about letting you hold him off to the side, but that makes this game harder by adding a bit of handling influence. So between your feet is the best start position – it might require a lot of cookies to convince him that is indeed the best place to be while you hold him 🙂
Starting between your feet also allows you to see where he is looking: when he looks at the correct obstacle, you can throw the reward (or hit the MM button) then release him – that can mark the decision really early. It is not really a lure because it happens after the behavior we want (deciding on the correct obstacle).
If he was moving as he heard the verbal or after only hearing it once, I agree with your assessment that there was some guess work/randomness 🙂
But over the course of the video, his success rate was definitely increasing and more importantly: he was actively thinking his way through the puzzle and that is exactly what we want. YAY!!
Separately from the verbal-only games, you can do the handling games because they support the verbal-only games and also because they are fun fun fun. I am sure he would like the movement and running around 🙂 The verbal-only games do not need to be perfect to also do the handling games.
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
>With double partial knee replacements coming up the pain is making me very short tempered and Cranky. >
I am sorry to hear about the pain – it definitely is hard to live with and I can see why you would be in a funk! I am counting down the days to when you can get the knees fixed and then onwards to pain-free times ahead. It will feel sooooooo much better! November 14th and December 19 – going very soon and will be totally worth it. Then we can have some fun modifying the games while your knees rehab 🙂
>PoweR turned one today and is definitely suffering from teenage brain.
I think I need a brain camp video on this particular stage to help me NOT want to kill him. Heavy sigh.>Happy birthday PoweR!!!!! And yes, teenage brain… it is hard for all involved. I added some adolescent info here, if it helps understand the crazy things happening in their brains:
All 3 Shelties thought the remote reinforcement game was awesome and easy! PoweR did the great about moving with you away from the cookies. Since this went so well, you can add in heading out of the room so the cookies are no longer visible (you started this at the end). And you can go to the next steps of asking for tricks or simple behaviors with the cookies in the other room.
Pivoting is also going well. Doing it on the inflatable is harder, of course, so we had a little extra foot movement on his front end as he was sorting out the balance. He seemed to find pivoting to your right side very easy compared to pivoting to your left side, so you can do fewer steps to your left side to help him sort out the mechanics.
I think he is ready for more independence so you don’t have to move a much. You can try tossing the cookies off to the side and slightly behind you, so he drives back and pivots back to center from the side which can eventually be built into pivoting all the way around to your side.
Great job!!
Tracy
Hi!
He did a great job with the box of toys as a distraction. It was a good challenge in that I am sure his brain had to process it, but he didn’t struggle or make big mistakes. Good boy!!!>I don’t know if the idea was supposed to be a moving distraction >
It can be stationary like it was here, or easy movement. Nothing tooooooo hard yet. You can even bring in some leaves from outside if he might be very interested in them at this time of year – that would be a good ’slice’ because it adds a big challenge, but indoors and in a controllable way.
>but I don’t have that unless I coral my husband to be in the vicinity doing something. My husband is EXTREMELY exciting to Brioche…>
So, your husband walking around is a huge challenge? We can use a slice of that by maybe have your husband in a chair, reading something or scrolling on his phone or watching TV, so he is present but not that exciting 🙂 And if Brioche might find that hard to ignore, you can have him on a leash and further away so you can set up success and get lots of reward to him without him pummeling your hubby. Then we can ramp up the level of challenge – so yes, maybe you can get your husband to play or maybe you can play in real life moments?
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
>I’m a bit conflicted about adding more verbals than I currently use.>
This is entirely relatable – there are SO MANY WORDS (directionals, obstacles, reward markers, etc)
My goal is to prioritize which verbals I will need and teach those effectively so they are very useful, rather than try to have a zillion verbals that the dog doesn’t actually know.
> I only do AKC and have no plans to do anything else.>
That helps us prioritize.
> And I don’t do much premiere course work at all. >
There are some premier elements that you will see in regular courses, so we can teach that too.
>Benni does know back sides and “in-in” to come to me on the take-off side and then take the jump.>
The threadle slice cue is good to have. I have not (yet) seen a threadle wrap in regular AKC courses so you can teach the puppy foundations of it, then shelve it. The independence of the skill is worth teaching!
And backside slice versus backside wrap is actually something you will need in AKC – I have seen it on those courses plenty of times.
>I have always just used “tight” to mean wrap the wing towards me no matter which side I am on. >
As courses expand and there is more distance and layering, it is worth it to consider a directional on the wrap rather than a single cue. You won’t always be close enough that he can rely on your position to know which way to wrap.
>The one thing I have recently thought would be useful in AKC is for me to have a rear cross wrap cue separate from “switch”. I was thinking “flip”. Words have to make sense to me in relation to the movement I’m asking for otherwise I will make mistakes in my verbals.>
Having a directional on a wrap (to the left or to the right) will solve that question because then the verbal already exists. The rear cross verbals are a bit vague, in my opinion, because they don’t tell the dog how much to turn. A wrap rear cross cue would need to be added but it might be more efficient to use a verbal that can be used in more than one context – that way you have a useful verbal and don’t need to have multiple verbals for the same behavior.
>I use “back” for any kind of backside although in regular AKC it would most likely just be a backside slice. >
*Highly* recommend you add a circle wrap backside verbal – you will see this in regular AKC and the separate verbal tells a fast dog a lot sooner how to jump the backside. My backside slice verbal is for when the dog enters and exits on different wings of the backside. The wrap is for when the enter and exit on the same wing. It has made a massive difference to all the dogs we have taught it too, in terms of the turn they produce and their jumping.
>I use “switch” for rear crosses. “Right” and “Left for directional turns on a jump. “Turn” on the flat as in tandem turn. “By” is my bypass cue for the non-obvious end of the tunnel. Of course, I use “go” and “out” in the traditional ways.>
These sound good- my only suggestion is to clarify the RC cue so he knows exactly how much to turn and you can use existing left/right/wrap verbals for that.
>So I am undecided about the additional verbals. Benni does fine with my current vocabulary. Not to say he doesn’t turn the wrong way sometimes but that could be more about my mechanics than my words.>
Course design is evolving, so adding the backside circle wrap would be a good one, and think about adding directionals to your front side wraps too (that you can then use with rear crosses).
Let me know what you think!
TracyThe backside slices are off to a strong start! He was being thoughtful about it probably because you were moving slowly – then when you added the verbal, he was not sure of what to look at. So you were correct to take the word off and build the behavior more. It will be easy to add the word when the behavior is easier.
When he was on your left, it was a bit easier for him! But both sides did go well. To help him understand that yes, he can blast up the line: you can go faster 🙂 Keep the start cookie, and keep the connection you had, keep the reward placement, and keep your line up motion: that was all spot on. But can walk faster or even jog so he understands that he can move fast too 🙂 You can move the barrel/ bump set up further away so you have even more room to go faster.
Nice work!
TracyGood morning!
She was so good here!!!!! She is a faster learner for sure. There were the normal outdoor distractions (fallen leaves are a big challenge at this time of years!) but she had the added challenge of construction noise – and did great!!!
She was excellent about sticking with you and starting on cue. You can see on the first video that she was circling you a bit, moving around, before you lined her up. I think this is fine because it gives her an outlet to move around when she is excited as long as she doesn’t start without you.
Finding the jump was great – she stuck with you during the ready game then exploded to the jump and MM as soon as you started – tons of speed and driving ahead! Love it!
Using the Cato board helps a lot – you can bring it to classes and different locations to help provide structure to those sessions too.
Great job!!
Tracy
Good morning!
>She definitely doesn’t bring stuff back to me. It’s more like run away and chew. >
That suggests the trade will be your best bet to get her coming towards you – trying to grab the original toy risks her getting faster and more creative about keeping it away/getting past you.
>The other day I out 4 chews out and she took them all. So, maybe a resource guarded as well.>
I am glad she is liking the chews! It would only be resource guarding if she shows body tension or growling or something, so it is probably just normal gathering of ‘stuff’ 🙂
She did great with the pivoting! It looks like the second side was a little harder but both sides are going well! You can tart wit ht eh 2nd ice on the next session to see if it is smoother when she is fresher.
You can build this up 2 ways to get even more independence: using the pressure into her, you can fade moving towards her down to just reaching your foot towards her back feet to see if she will start moving without as much pressure.
And you can also try the cookie rewards being tossed off to the sides, so she pivots from different angles back to the front.Great job!
Tracy
