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Hi!
>So we did a wrap at 15 to the #6 tunnel with the intent of working a turn out of a straight tunnel with a placed toy after it. I didn’t feel like she really even turned with the toy and Jen Weaver said I was being too picky.>
I vote with Jen LOL!!!! I think accelerating from the start jump to the tunnel overrode the more subtle left verbal and direction of your motion. She would need to see that in flow and something that would really help… a brake arm. I think a visible brake arm on the soft turns would be a game changer for you and Lu 🙂 so have Jen bug you about adding it 🙂
>But the turn out of tunnel to take jump 4 became impossible. I didn’t think it was a hard turn which is why I tried it but that was obviously incorrect.>
It was harder than it looked for sure at :51 – tunnel exit pointed directly at the backside plus a jump right there blocking you from adding lateral distance. So the line plus your position close to it plus 20″ jump made it seem like a backside line. Plus, even when you sent her over it, the jumping form was hard. That is great information!!
>I think this week was just overall frustrating because I’m not sure how to fix this issue.>
It was great info about what she needs – yes, it can totally be frustrating but that also is where training plans are created.
A two-pronged approach can help:
– finding lines with you very close and moving fast on low bars (high speed lazy game)
– finding lines with 20″ bars with you not as close and not moving as fast, so she can sort out the jumpingThis will gradually get merged together 🙂 The other things you can do are:
– work on striding into a 20″ bar with an accordion grid (3 or 4 jumps, with the first bars low like at 8″ and 6 feet apart, and the last bar 20″ and changing distance from 12 to 15 to 18 to 21 feet)
– get her checked by a PT person to make sure there is nothing locked up or hindering her movement. Winter weather and snow can cause some trigger points or locked up areas which affect jumping.And wrap her feet flyball-style so she has more grip and will trust the footing more. I will post that video soon – plus Animal Inn has some of the best flyball people in the country. maybe they can help too!
> I have her signed up for an ISC trial (jumpers only which I was going to FEO and move her back down to 16″) but I’m leaning towards just pulling her for now. >
When and where is the trial? Who is the judge?
> yet I want to do something that is productive during the winter.>
Winter is brutal for being productive (as I stare out the window and see the field covered in snow and ice 🙁 ) but you can work the jumping stuff indoors to help her out.
> But maybe I just need to say screw it and wait until we can really focus on things like this during the spring/summer instead of rehearsing bad habits.>
Spring is thankfully pretty close! And we don’t want to rehearse unwanted behavior but more importantly, we don’t want to build stress or frustration into the trial ring. So before trialing, see how she does as you build up to finding jumps and lines with you going faster and being closer.
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Looking at the speedstakes course – this is a hard one on paper (harder than it looks!) and also the way it is set, there is pressure on the lines that make it even harder.
>1-3 was great.
Yes! Super nice! You were decelerating into the cross and connected. Yay!
>But then she just ran around everything>
A couple of factors here caused that:
– after the cross, you had to accelerate which cues her to accelerate. That is hard for her on 16″ bars when you are right next to the line and even harder on 20
– The tunnels being that close to the line forced you to be close to the line and running, which pushed her away. She does better when you are further from her line and not running as much as we see in other moments from the runs
– add in the complication of the 20″ jumps – so she ran around them because she just didn’t know how to organize them. I do think she struggles with the footing (she was a bit hoppy here, even when she was coming back to you or going to the backside at :51) and I think having all the bars at 20 made it hard to recover if she got off balance.Getting her running shorter sequences with you close to the line and you running hard is moving up to the top of the priority list! First with all bars at 16, then move one up to 20, then mayeb 2 up to 20 etc.
>. My friends were yelling at me to reward her for something, but I felt like she was just running and not taking anything until the end when I reset her.>
You can reward the tunnels! Or you can reset her and do something easy which you did in the last run. And if she runs past a line, rather than ask her to do that whole line again: just ask her to do one jump and reward. Then maybe 2 jumps and reward.
She was able to pick up the jumps from :51 to the end, with you not running much and being a bit further from the line – but the jumping looked uncomfortable (you can see her butt going higher than her shoulders). She was taking a lot of small steps to figure it all out then pulling over the jumps rather than pushing from the rear. Also, she was able to figure it out because there was less pressure on the line and you were not moving as much. And that makes sense why she couldn’t do it when you were really moving and close to the line at the beginning of the run (because you had to get around the tunnel).
So in training, simple fast line sequences with you nearby are top of the list! Think of it as the lazy game, but with you starting slow and building up to going faster and faster and faster (and gradually raising the bars).
Onwards to jumping!
T
Hi!
Looking at the stuff here, I think moving all the bars up to 20″ and running on the mats is really hard for her.
One thing about going up to full height – you can do it one jump at a time to ease her into it, rather than all the jumps going up at the same time. And I think wrapping her feet to give her grip will really help too!> No matter what I did, she just could not get jump 5. She went around it to the tunnel every time. She was jumping 20″ but I moved it down to 18″.>
I am guessing that she went around the outside of 5? Is it possible that the line from 4 put her on the backside line to 5, and without a backside cue she just continued to the tunnel? And that is where you can have 4 as a 20″ jump, but 5 can be 16″ because it is a harder line to pick up.
The 2 things to take away from this are:
– remember the 2 failure rule! going around a jump twice in the session means it is too hard, so everything from that point needs to be easier for success 🙂 Then you won’t be as frustrated by anything that happened.
– always video all the things 🙂 so we can see what was going on.Onwards to the trial runs!
T
Hi! She seemed fully recovered from her weekend here and happy to run! And the two of you seem more “locked in” than ever, in terms of teamwork and handling. Very connected and speedy!!!!!
>You can hear her barking before we go into the ring -didn’t have much time to get her acclimated inside before her turn but she is getting better at handling that.>
Yes! The more positive experiences she has in the ring, the more she will naturally adjust to the optimal arousal state (and will need less mental warm up time). She is also getting really good at ignoring people in the ring or entering the ring.
First run:
The layering is looking great!!! It was a hard one because there was not a lot of momentum into it (being the beginning of the course) and she seemed to have no questions. SUPER!!!Remember to balance the layer lines with ‘don’t layer’ lines by cueing the turn instead of the layer.
2nd run – backside slices are going well! I bet she doesn’t need you to push her out quite as far – she was heading to the backside and then went extra wide because you were pushing extra hard to it.
>Totally didn’t connect with her at 2:15 and she decided that was a blind cross moment.>
Yes, that is 100% what it looked like (blind cross). The connection to serp needed big exaggeration which is what you did on the next rep.
You did a lead out towards the end and she was perfect – I think that is something you can move higher in terms of priorities: long happy lead outs (and also forward focus for those slice openings and send-away openings, where you might not want to be next to her).
These are things you can do with one jump indoors, varying your position and rewarding for stays and forward focus to the jump.
>She doesn’t have any ring time until class next Tuesday. It is supposed to hit 40 this weekend so I’m hoping the snow melts. Kaladin gets to do a seminar with Karen Childs tomorrow night, but there wasn’t a session I wanted to put Lift in so we’ll be figuring out what we can do in my indoor space.>
Maybe she can do stuff in the breaks, like little lead outs or short sequences?
>I did enter her in 2 classes (P1 Jprs & Snkr) for 1 day at the USDAA trial next weekend.>
Perfect. FYI, since I only ran FEO at USDAA with the young dogs, I didn’t have to have them measured and no one cared LOL!!! The P1 classes will be fun!
Great job here! Enjoy your heat wave!
Tracy
Hi! Thanks for posting the runs!
I agree, he was in flight mode at the beginning of the JWW run – his ears and tail definitely told that story and his eyes were big and wide. He was able to come back and offer jump 1. Yay! Good job to you for keeping him in motion. He seemed concerned about the ring crew person in the corner – almost stopping as if he was afraid of her. That might just have been because of the weird noises? But we will keep an eye on it in case he shows that concern elsewhere. What a good boy to nail his weaves! And he found most of the jumps even though he was definitely looking a bit concerned about the noise.
The 2nd run was really good – I haven’t seen an Indy video in a little while and there is a big improvement! He is finding his jumps, finding the lines, weaving, etc. Yes, he had to look at the jump and ring crew person but that is lack of experience, I believe. Winter is a hard time to get to classes and fun runs, but any time you can get to a run definitely ask people to be nearby as the judge and crew… and deliver good treat to him for ignoring them 🙂 Once he is 100% comfy with the judge & crew, you are going to see his runs be consistently fast and smooth! Yay!
Great job 🙂
TracyHi!
He did great here on these runs! So much here to be proud of!!
>He was able to wait in a chute system with some excitement but stayed focused on me with our pre run routine we are working on.>
That is great! The chute queue can be hard and it is not something we see or practice a lot. I am glad he was fine with it.
> He held his Startline for his 3 runs even though he was sitting very close to the waiting dogs in the chute!>
Yay! Good boy!!!!
> In the first Speedstakes run I blocked his entry into the tunnel and forgot to give his tunnel cue 🤦♀️ so he took the jump,>
Yes – based on your line there, I thought you wanted the jump. He was reading you well!
> then I didn’t support his send out a bit later and he pulled off but went back when I resent him. Yay! I also got mixed up and sent him to the wrong jump at the end but he followed my cue to take the proper jump.
>No worries, those were BIG courses!!! When stuff like that happens, you can keep going to stay in flow – we don’t want him to slow down to avoid being wrong, so continuing is the best bet even if it is not quite the right line.
>He took a tunnel instead of a jump which E us, along with half of the other dogs.>
That was a definite brake arm moment 🙂 As he was exiting the tunnel before the jump (1:21), you can start your here verbal or your left verbal and bring up your outside arm to visibly join your dog side arm – that will create the collection. You had acceleration and a shoulder turn so the off course tunnel was on his line there.
>I noticed I am keeping my arms too high which is sending him wide and I am forgetting to give him my verbal cues on his turns. Homework to work on. I think I will tie my arms to my waist!!!>
The arms were not too high – I think you were trying to send, so adding more decel into the send will help keep your arms a bit lower (sudden stops tend to make our arms fly up :)) And definitely practice your verbals during the walk through, that will help you get them out during the run.
>He came to me nicely at the end of the runs even with lots of dogs and people around a wide opening for us to exit out. He tugged with a toy at his leash and we went to a pre placed tug and food pouch close by to reward him. 🤩>
That is AWESOME!!! YAY!!!!
>>It was so busy with two rings and the warm up area >in the middle! He was able to warm up a little on one of the jumps and stay with me even with dogs running on both sides. We have another trial coming up in a couple of weeks. AAC trial at a familiar venue. It will be much quieter.>>
He did really well – he seemed to be exactly the same as he is in practice or quieter places. It looks like the added people/dogs/excitement/distractions were really not a problem for him! That is SUPER!!!! He seemed very comfy in the busy environment.
Great job here!!!
TracyHi!
This went really well – the added motion and countermotion was no problem. He might have found the left turn a tiny bit harder at first (it looks like he was considering coming to you and not the jump at first) but then sorted it out really well.
>. He decided after a couple of reps that he’d rather have a food reward, so I switched.>
I don’t think it was a reward preference as much as it was confusion over whether the toy was meant for him or not –
As you keep adding motion, the only other thing to add here is a marker that indicates it is OK to get the toy. Your toy placement was really good! But you were quiet so he was not sure if he should take the toy or follow your line, so he followed your line. A ‘get it’ marker can affirm that yes, the toy is his 🙂 He had no trouble getting the treats without a marker, probably because there is less stimulus control on tossed treats.
You can also add a blind cross exit (like a German turn) to this!
>I will look into setting up some kind of rocking horse. I do have a 3′ training tunnel if that is something I could use.>
That would be great if you have enough tunnel bags to keep it secure – I imagine he is pretty powerful running through tunnels 🙂
Nice work! Stay warm!
Tracy
Just sent it! And here it is:
Hi all!
We have a zoom chat tonight!!! See you at 8om eastern – bring your questions and ideas!Here is the link:
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/86118691122Tracy
Hi!
>I started with cheese and when I saw the concern I changed to chicken and it solved the problem.>
Perfect! Excellent decision!
> Question: As far as pressure. Should I start low and work up. Meaning first run have couple people in the ring. Second run add people behind him and third run have dogs out of the crates?>
I think start with the normal, higher pressure he will see at trials: people, noise, dogs, etc. And have the ‘ring crew’ or judge or instructor in the ring with a reward hidden in their pocket. When you are on the course moving away from the exit gate/reward area, you can ask the other person to throw the reward. This will surprise him in a good, good way: when he moves ‘upstream’ away from where you left his rewards, he gets MORE rewards! Yay!
>No food. I believe the difference was someone was standing in the corner of the building after the jump after the dog walk. (note person had a bright yellow hoddy on) Also the dog walk was on a slight angle. The only thing though he was not his normal speed going up the dog walk. So maybe between going the direction front to back of the building and then when he reached the top of the dog walk he saw the person standing in the corner. I was happy though on the second run he did do the full dog walk and that person was still in the corner.>
He might have scoped out the environment and that contributed to the more relaxed mulligan runs. Also, did you feel any difference in yourself: less nervous in mulligans, maybe? Dogs sometimes read that. So you can try to make yourself nervous on Sunday: pretend it is a real trial and you are doing for a Q!
Keep me posted!
Tracy
Hi!
I am glad you are feeling better – sounds like an icky 1.5 weeks!!!>I still think having more spicy games at the beginning would be helpful, but I just am not creative enough with the those ideas. I tried to teach him to bark, but it I couldn’t get him to do it! So weird that I have a schnauzer that is hard to get to bark, I mean, c’mon!!😂>
Seriously! LOL! I am sure we can convince him. Can you name it when he is already barking, such as say “who’s there?” then knock on the door, then give him cookies? Then start saying “who’s there” or anything that triggers even a little huffing noise, then reward. I cue barking with the word “ready” and pair it with exciting things 🙂
> I think he thinks spins right and left are stupid>
Can you have him spin then chase a treat or ball? That might be less stupid LOL
> He’s very “handsy” so we do “Gimme 5” on both paws and I move a bit back and forth and he likes that.>
That is good! I think he will like the other stuff too if it is paired with higher value stuff or moving rewards.
Tossing rewards is good, like you did at the beginning of the video – you can also have him pop up to get the cookie from you hand. Front feet should come off the ground for his, and maybe you can convince him to leap up (all 4 feet) to get it. That pumps up the heart rate (think about plyometrics at the gym :)) and is a great pre-run way to reward in a small space.
> We had extra time to wait than I thought on the first round while the bars were having some difficulty gettin set off camera so we just had some chill. Maybe I should have been doing more there to pump him up??>
He did well ignoring the dog and bar setters as he entered. Since this is early in his training for this, you can totally use food rewards early and often. He did get a cookie for a high five but you can raise the value for ignoring people by rewarding earlier and more frequently. You can see that he was not all that pumped up by the time the leash came off that he was not all that engaged. You got him back in gear which was great! More rewards early on will keep his engagement and then you can fade the rewards.
He had a couple of treats in the 2nd round too, but you can do more tricks and less chill as you wait 🙂 it is the higher arousal from the tricks at that help with ignoring distractions.
>In Round 2 I decided to leave the leash closer to the end. Should I have been more fun and engaging getting back to jump #1?>
I think you were pretty engaged and he seemed happy to move with you. You can ask for more tricks like spins, but also it is good that he can move with you like that without tricks. The sequence after that looked great! He is looking really good with his sequence skills!!! Nice weaves!
>Did a little exit practice with my “Let’s Go” which means we’re gonna leave and get a jackpot, which he got right outside the ring.>
That looked good! He seemed perfectly happy with that!
Great job here. What is coming up on his training/trial calendar?
Tracy
Hi! I am glad everyone is recovered from their ops!!!!
The strike a pose game went great! She was great about driving fast to the jump as you added the countermotion. Most of it was very easy for her. Things got harder as you added getting to the front side before the release: she had a question at :49, had to think deeply about it at 1:20, and was smoother at 1:45. Be sure to look at the landing spot to help her when you release (it was hard to see where you were looking) and also, as the countermotion gets harder, you can throw the reward further behind you so it lands on the landing side of the jump and not near you 🙂
> did her stays – I think she got tired for the last two or maybe more rewarding! I always panic about stays at about this time and feel I haven’t done enough work on them. >
Her stays looked strong! You can reward a lot especially when doing games that have a bit of movement on the release – she might have been anticipating the release a bit when you arrived in position.
>Still switching happily between food and toys (bonus!)>
Yay! She has really good balance between food and toys!!
Great job here 🙂
TracyGood morning!
This went really well! Great job with serp position near the jumps, staying connected, and keeping your shoulder open so he serped jump 1 and also found jump 2. YAY!!!
You can be moving even more before the release – walking through serp position and as you arrive in serp position, release him while you keep moving (that way release and motion are not simultaneous). 1:18 was almost like this, but you can take out the stop before the release. The rep at 1:37 was more like it – moving the whole time! He seemed to have no questions. So since his stay is looking strong, you can work on doing what you did at 1:37 but adding fast walking, then jogging… and build up to running 🙂 FUN!
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
> I now have a dogwalk (well something close to one). Last night she pranced the whole way across and this morning went half way. Realised looking at the video I didnt keep up with her so she stopped. Currently seems to need me beside her but at the rate she is now progresssing that will not stay true for long.>
Can the dog walk be lowered? That can help build her confidence to go across it without you. Also, is she targeting something at the other end, so she doesn’t look back at you?
And I am glad the weaves are going well!
> it is easier to throw a ball as when I throw a treat she doesnt always make the effort to find it.>
Yes, the ball is really visible and fun – and the treats are hard to find and not worth the effort LOL!
Keep me posted!
TracyHi!
> Agreed!! I’m thinking that the visiting is being driven by his need to get rid of his pressure buildup from the cue and startline,>
Yes – which is why I like the idea of getting him off the start line as soon as possible. And you can be verbally connected to him – talking to him, even saying something like “ready ready”. And talking to him as he has to go past ring crew can help too – you are often quite in those moments.
> so more patterns and more chill to help him. I think he’s often on the downslope of the backside of the arousal curve when coming to the line and is really taxing his brain trying to keep his act together. When he’s like this, does volume dial help or hurt?>
I don’t think more chill and more patterns help – volume dial can help by optimizing arousal to the point that the distractions disappear!
>A run from yesterday – had a ring person in place, he checked her out, I rewarded the next obstacle once he took it and then life was good!>
Yes, that was good! And you can talk to him there, and stay a little closer to him can’t hurt (I think your instructor was saying that). But definitely rewarding immediately after can help because it can make the ring crew person into a cue that good things will happen if he focuses on you 🙂
He did well ignoring the other dog exiting on the 2nd run!
Handling without verbals is good for handling practice! Really nice run – tons of connection really helped and your cues were really clear for the most part! Super!
There was no ring crew person there so we can’t test the ‘talk to him as he is passing the person’ theory so try it next time when you are allowed to talk to him again 🙂 It can be jump verbals or his name.
I do think that staying verbally connected to him on lead outs is a good thing – when you silently walk away, he looks around a lot. You can try quiet praise, or you can try ramping him up with ready ready and see which one produces the right balance of focus while also holding the stay 🙂
>I have an opportunity Saturday for a couple of runs in a full floor agility match with ring crew – same venue that we run CPE in. My thoughts are to concentrate on passing the ring crew – obstacle, pass ring crew, obstacle reward. Repeat and if it goes well, up the challenge by having two people sit side by side – your thoughts on how to use my time – I’ve got 2 4 minute slots.>
What a great opportunity! Are you allowed to use food? If so – for the first run, you can definitely reward when he passes the ring crew. And on the 2nd run, you can have the lotus ball in your pocket (or have nothing with you), but also maybe helpers can have hidden food in a lotus ball in their pockets too and throw it past the next obstacle when he is past them and ignoring them. That way he can ignore people even when you don’t have the ball in your hand or pocket!
>Also have 2 more UKI opportunities in early March if I can talk myself into the 2 hour drives.>
Yeah, 2 hour drives are easier in the summer than in March LOL!!!!
Nice work here!
Tracy
