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Hi!
This is definitely a hard skill and she moves really fast which leaves you very little time to show the cues. The magic here is getting her to see the turn cues on the wrap wing and having you face the correct direction (towards the threadle entry) before she gets to the wing wrap, so she can adjust her exit.
When you cued collection on the wing and rotated towards her on the last couple of reps, she read it really well because of all the good info happening before the wing. It did involve you rotating towards her, which might be inefficient on a bigger course so we can also look at the other rep that worked really well: at :27 you had decelerated and were fully rotated by the time she exited the wing, so she turned immediately. That kepot your feet moving forward, which will be helpful on course especially when you are not ahead of her! So you can try cueing the collection on the wing and then whipping your shoulders around to the threadle line before she even arrives at the wing. You can add your threadle arm to it too and see which works best for her.
The reps where she was convinced she should go straight to the tunnel were because as she exited the wing, you were facing that direction. Even if you were trying to turn, if it was late then she was locked onto the line to the tunnel.
I grabbed some screenshots because visuals are useful! One the first one, she sees you facing forward as she exits the wing. Zoom zoom into the tunnel! On the 2nd one, you are rotated away as she exits the wing and she gets it. On this one, I think you were also patting your leg but it looks like the shoulder turn being timely was the important factor. On the 3rd one, you are rotated towards her and that also gets her onto the correct line.
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18DahbOyTPSVP7cMXfJHTVAdNfJZcti6ipD5VAK2d_HU/edit?usp=sharing
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
>I love when we get a game that Ellie and I can do in just one session!>
I agree, it went really well and sometimes it is nice to just fly through something 🙂
Her bounce on the set point on reps 1 and 5 were very nice 🙂
> We did have a snafu on the second rep though. The last bar came down,>
Yes, she was surprised about the distance and didn’t have enough time to adjust. Thankfully she didn’t love that feeling of getting out of control:
> but all of the bars stayed up when we did this distance again on the fourth rep.>
Yes, what a good girl! She adjusted much better. I don’t think the distance was easy or comfy, but she is reading it and adjusting which is exactly what we want. Yay!
> I didn’t attempt to figure out exactly what went wrong or what she did differently to fix it, but it looks like she came up way short on that second rep.>
Yes – I think she was striding it the same way she was striding the first rep… then she had an OMG moment when she realized the jump was further away. She did a bigger bounce on rep 4 – good for her!
>Please also let me know if you still think Ellie is pushing off with her rear. I can never tell.>
Oh yes, she is working her hind end and core here really well! You can try having jumps 2 and 3 at 10 inches the next time you play with this. You can revisit it once a week or so, no need to do it more often than that.
Great job!
Tracy
Hi!
>We had a FANTASTICLY FUN weekend! Frankie got her MACH4! She ran happy all weekend! YAY!>
Huge congrats!!! That is so fun!!!
> Bazinga was awesome at the trial this weekend! She Qd another FAST run!!! I’ll post videos tomorrow. >
I did see a video on Facebook with you running in big girl panties that had me laughing for hours LOL!!!
>Hahahaha! I am feeling the sheesh! Am I taking too long? I feel like I’m dragging through the weaves, teeter & DW. Is it my own fear?>
Totally relatable! The learning happens at her own pace. If she is successful? Push forward? If she needs more time to sort things out? Give her the time. There is no rush but also, push forward and don’t worry if things might go sideways 🙂
>>Oh! Ok. I have not been treating from the MM at all. I just have it out there as a kind of visual target. Maybe that is too extreme? So I can still use it – just switch it up & be surprising?>
I don’t think it is too extreme, but it is possible it has lost some value because it doesn’t spit out any treats. So you can surprise her with rewards from it and that can keep her looking ahead.
> I have been hiding always in the direct line of sight from the weave exit. Should I be putting it off to the side too? I am very bad at fading!>
Have you been tucking it behind a wing or something? Being generally on the line is good. Small variations on that are fine too, but you don’t want to put it anyplace too weird because that might distract her more than help her 🙂
>I guess I feel like (maybe this is superstitious) that she can’t find the weaves in other locations if the MM isn’t there as a target.>
It is possible that the MM has become a context cue. Hide it behind the wing of a jump and see how she does. Then you can sometimes not have it there at all, and see how she does.
>We did a session yesterday and I put the MM behind a wing and gave her some ROOM to work on the left side of the weaves and I think that helped. Maybe I was crowding her. She did much better this session on both sides. I can post a video if you want to see.>
Perfect! It is possible she was feeling crowded in previous sessions, or just needed a few more days. I would love to see the video.
>>🤣 YES!!! He got lots of attention from his aunties and did a lot of visiting. He got his first steak treats and NOW he is food motivated. He has a new Auntie Steak lol. He did a great job for such a new little guy.>
Awwww that is great! I knew he would have everyone admiring his ultra-cuteness!!!!
Have fun 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
Looking at the set point:
> Sat her up closer. She’s jumping with her head up and not striding into the middle of the set point distance which often seems to be her tendency with set points vs other grids where she gets more motion moving into them.>
I see what you mean here! Try moving the toy before the release – have it attached to something longer so you don’t have to lean over, and be jogging with it on the ground dragging for a few steps before you release her. In this session, it starts moving after she makes her takeoff decision for jump 2, so she is in ‘boing’ mode to pounce on the stationary toy (even though it is moving after she lands). Having it moving before she leaves her sit should change her head position. It might be hard for her to hold a stay with you jogging and dragging a toy, so you can test that out on the flat before adding jumps. Or, you can enlist Dean (thanks, Deanm for volunteering hahahahaha) to gently hold her so she doesn’t have to maintain stay criteria.
>Will have to try the alternating chase games with Kaladin. He’ll be a good sport as long as he gets to chase some too. Of course he may not return super fast either but I’m sure the dogs will have fun.>
Keep me posted! Social learning with this kind of thing can be really fun!
>Sure hope I do see you in August. Pinged Dawn who now says she’s working on the schedule in early June and asked my opinion again on whether I had session preferences. She seems to be leaning towards full day sessions… I told her I didn’t think Lift had enough brains for a full day seminar and maybe the young dog sessions could be half days.>
I agree, half days for young dogs is the way to go. She usually asks my opinion so I will share that 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
>I’m trying to do his exercises in the morning -we’re having abnormally warm weather for May (upper 80s). Today is the last warn day before rain and going back to 60ish.>
60s will be nice!!! Good dog training weather!
>We did baby level tunnel threadle. He did pretty well with it. My word is “here” but drawn out “heeeeeere”. I also use the opposite arm.>
You are going to laugh (hopefully) – the wrap on the wing, and tunnel threadle verbal and arm were all perfect except you were doing front crosses instead of threadles 🙂 I blame the heat! LOL!! The FC puts him on the outside, with you between him and the tunnel. The threadle will start with a post turn around the wing, putting him between you and the tunnel.
>I’d say Dellin’s tunnel threadle is still a bit of a work in progress when going full speed on a course and I’ve been using the sprinkler and then “here” for her. I’ve been thinking about using left/right for her and then here, but it does not usually fit my left/right situation and the sprinkler gives me the head turn. This set up was definitely the wrap cue though. Things to ponder…>
Yes – what to say/do *before* threadles can be very context-specific. It might be a wrap cue (like this game) or a soft turn, or a name call, or nothing at all – totally depends on the course. And also getting to know what each individual dog needs is important: Dellin might need Very.Strong.Cues on the jump before a threadle if there is a significant turn, but Judge might only need a casual suggestion of a turn (a very quiet name call). Time will tell, as he gets on bigger and bigger sequences 🙂
Great job with the FCs here 😂🤣 and hopefully you can try the threadle side when you get a chance.
Tracy
Hi!
I think 34″ might be the sweet spot! She did well here. And the pool noodle was not fully cooperating but it was good enough for what we needed here – she totally stepped in better. Using this 34″ distance, one thing to try is getting a pool noodle for jumps 1 and 2, and then using the bar for jump 3. That will lead us into the accordion grid, where jump 3 changes distances and can also start changing heights. You can use the 4 inch bar on jump 3 and as the jump gets further away, you can raise the bar more! Do your jumps also have a 6″ cup?>I’m excited she has a “Foundations” seminar on the weekend. I am less worried about her skills than if she’ll come back to me with her keenness for all dogs and people.>
That will be so fun!!! Part of the problem is that she is SO CUTE that everyone will want to meet her 🙂 but don’t let any big dogs go near her (I feel protective of her tiny self!) And no worries if she goes and visits, you can bring amazing treats and toys and she will stick with you. Have a blast and let me know how it goes!
Tracy
Hi!
The zig zags are going well! He does indeed like more movement and the bigger cues. The next step is to add the bars, and he is ready for that.
As you work through this and other handling stuff, you have reached the stage where bloopers are all handler errors, so if something goes wrong you can assume it was you not him, and reward 🙂
For example, you can totally reward that first rep – he did exactly as you cued 🙂 You released quickly before fully reconnecting, so he saw you step out to the wing… and took the wing where you were stepping/pointing. Good boy! In handling, bloopers are 99% human error, so it is always good to reward 🙂 You handled the next rep differently so he did what you wanted, but he was still correct on that first rep.At :26 you released the cue and started a FC before he had a chance to get into the gap, so he was correct to go past the gap to the next gap. You held the cue longer so he was able to commit on the next rep.
So, it is always good to assume handler error and reward him, so he doesn’t get deflated after reading the cues correctly.
On the turn away videos – these were tandem turns, (where your feet face forward, not turned to the pup). He might read them better if you use both hands to pull him in and turn him away
At :11 he saw one hand drop low and turn him away, and he read it well! Two hands doing that will be even easier to read when he is running the big courses.
At :17, the cues were pushing him to the other side of the jump – the arm was asking for the turning away, but the feet/hips were pushing him out. Getting your hand a little lower to pull him in and then push back out worked well! You can keep your feet/hips facing the line more (and the wing less), and that will help too!
The layering game went really well too! Yes, he loves hi Manners Minder so having it out there to jump start the skill was great. You faded it really fast by switching to the toy, and that worked beautifully.
> Almost too successful and I started to question if I was doing the exercise correctly!>
Ha! It was just really good dog training! You were doing it correctly 🙂
Since he was so confident: yes, you can move to the next step with the proper tunnel 🙂
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
These were great sessions – the added motion didn’t change his arousal level (he was still terrific with his focus and arousal level). And, he was still able to produce amazing turns (I must have said WOW ten times while watching LOL!!)
He is reading all of the different cues for the Wind In Your Hair really well. And you are cueing them well, which of course really helps 🙂
A couple of small tweaks:
At :05 – you can be earlier on the RC cues here, more like you did at :33 . You ran forward on the Go line until he was pretty close to the jump, then moved into the RC. He looked at you then adjusted over the bar. At :33, you were pressuring into the RC line a step or two after he exited the wing wrap, so he was able to set up the RC sooner.
Remember to show him the wing on the push/backside wraps. The Push at :14 had a bar down, but that was because you were blocking the line for a few steps and moving faster, so he didn’t quite have enough time to set up the jumping. He adjusted really well on the next rep 🙂
At :42 you were showing him the line really well, not blocking the wing, so he was able to set up a lovely tight turn!! Wow!
\>Not sure why he wrapped the wing to the left a couple times when I told him right?>
That falls into the “Dogs See Every Move We Make” category. If you watch it in slow motion, you will see that you were sideways to the wing and stepped sideways with your right leg.. which cued the threadle/left turn. You can see it at :26. And when you were still sideways (but didn’t really step to it) at :28, I think he was guessing that it was the same thing. On the other reps where you were closer and/or stepping to the wing, he had no questions.
Smiley face is looking great too – he is very responsive to your decel and can turn really well! Wow! He turns so well that you don’t need as much decel on the race tracks, because he collects a little too much! You can move more and you can also show him a higher bar here (12″ for now then we can move it up again).
His only question on the Smiley Face game was the bar down at :56, but I think he was surprised it was a wrap as the first jump.
I scrolled back to your first post:
>He’s a lot of dog and doesn’t lack any enthusiasm lol but goes over threshold and starts screaming, throwing behaviors, and trying to tear things up very easily/quickly.>
You’ve done a lovely job with him – yes, he is a lot of dog (in the best way) and also yes, he has a ton of enthusiasm. But he is working beautifully and you two are becoming a great team! Exciting!!!
Tracy
Hi!
Yes – getting the wrap on the start wing was the hardest part at the beginning! When you added the wrap cue and started turning earlier (at :40 for example), he was able to find the new line really well. You transferred that timing to the other side and he did well there too! Super!
And he did well with the racetrack into the tunnel threadle as well – even with the added speed, he was able to respond well to the cues.
He only had 2 questions in that part of the session, and both were connection questions. Be sure to remain connected and don’t look forward ahead of him 🙂 – when you looked forward at 1:05 on the racetrack, he almost came off the line. When you looked forward at 1:14 so he came to you and didn’t go to the tunnel right away. Compare to 1:27 where you stayed connected and he zipped right into the tunnel. Yay!
Great job!
TracyHi!
Yes, the decel class at Paws would be great!>I feel like I owe a donation to the SPCA!>
Ha! No, you don’t owe, that was only for people who were being mean to their dogs. You and Zyp did GREAT! He did lots of excellent sequencing with focus and accuracy and speed. SUPER! He never once did his own thing – you reinforced him a lot, so he never got frustrated. The work you have been doing with him really helped him shine!!!
Tracy
Hi!
The left side zig zag session went well! I htink that his questions on that side are more about mechanics in arousal on that side, so you can help him out a little in terms of session structure:He might only have two good reps on that side in terms of mechanics before the arousal for the toy kicks in. So you can take a ping pong approach on the harder side: do an easy one with you closer, then one or 2 hard ones (with you further) then an easy one. And by “easy” rep, it can be you being closer, or you using food rewards, or both! You did go back to a slightly easier one after he had 2 failures, but you can plan to do that before any failures to help him maintain the mechanics.
Nice work! Keep me posted on how the tunnel threadles went!
Tracy
Hi!
>Our startlines need a bit more practice!>
She is loving the agility 🙂 so you can throw back lots of rewards to keep convincing her that start lines are worthwhile 🙂
She did well on the grid – I think she is having to jump it in collection with the bar at that height, so you can add a little more space as we try to find the sweet spot. If that was 28″, maybe try 32″? That is a guess based on her size, so you can set it up, do one or two reps, then watch the video and see how comfortable her bounces look.
The step in on the first jump might also be playing a role:
Even with the lowest possible bar, the first jump with her set up close (correctly) is a little high – you can use that little blue stride regulator you used with the set point to replace the first bar.She is doing really well reading all the jumping games, so this is more about finding the sweet spot of distance so she can really power through it and not slow herself down to get the proper elevation.
Nice work!
TracyHi!
He did great here! 12″? No problem at all. I think he is also ready for you to run more – you can really accelerate on the Go lines, and more acceleration will make it easier to show decel into the FC wraps. He has been beautiful in his optimal arousal and toy play, so adding more motion will be more arousing but I totally believe he will be fine (and he will also love it :)) The backside pushes had more motion already and he was PERFECT!
>He missed a couple fronts turning left but watching the video my handling looks like I wanted a rear so he was a good boy!>
Yes – at :14 it looked like the RC (especially since he had just done 2 nice ones :)) So as he is exiting the wrap on the start wing, you can be driving forward – and let him see you shift into deceleration right as he exits the wing (you will decel but face forward to the FC wing). As he passes you and collects, you can then do the FC and I think that will look significantly different from the RC cue.
When he did get the FC wrap at :22, you had more motion then a little decel (all facing the wrap wing) and then the FC itself. He read it really well! You can exaggerate the decel more and it will be even easier.
His turns are looking really good, and so is his “go”. I am *most* excited about those rear crosses, though: he did a great job sliding past you with the rear cross pressure and reading the turn the new direction. YAY!!!
Let me know how adding more running goes! Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
>Hope the rain has moved out of your area now!>
It moved out of where I was… now I am home and it followed me (torrential storms happening!). Sigh.
>MissL got to go practice some drills on the big agility field we train at and did AMAZING! She even showed a little start line stay. I was exceptionally proud of her by (mostly) sticking with me and did not run off to go explore (like her brother Wayne used to do!)>
This is exciting!! She is getting more and more into the game with you and it is fun!!!
She did great finding the jump (and playing with the toy :)) I think she really liked all the motion, so we are seeing her open up & run when you are also moving. Since she had no questions about finding the line (even when you were adding more directionals and turns), you can add more distance so you both and move more. One way to do it is to put the tunnel as close to the fence behind where it was here, so there is 15 feet or more to the jump. Or you can rotate the setup so it sits lengthwise in the yard – and see if you can get 20 feet or more between the tunnel exit and the jump. That will also allow you to add more lateral distance from the jump, as well as more options for you being way ahead or deliberately putting yourself behind her by running close to the tunnel before moving up the next line. She is ready for all of that!
Great job here!
Tracy
