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Hi!
>I now have a good stable wait away from jumps and often in presence of a couple jumps at home it is still very difficult elsewhere.>
This is great progress! One thing to add at home is getting her as aroused as possible, then asking for simple stays. That can simulate her trial state. For example, you can run her through a tunnel 10 times in a row, then ask for a very short easy stay. It will be easy when she is calm, but much harder after 10 tunnels!
On the video:
Things are going really well. She is not 100% sure about the layering, so that is where we will want to look at reward placement to help build the skill.Remember that these are not gamble sends, they are parallel path lines. If you are sending and not moving, she will correctly read that as turn cues and curl in.
So to get her to read the line while layering, 2 suggestions:
– Send to 1 and 2, then run run run 🙂 no standing still!
– throw the reward out on the line, don’t reward from your hand (more on that below)
When you are on the other side of the tunnel and not layering, keeping your arm lower so she can see connection helped a lot (like at :59).
Back to reward placement:
To really build the understanding, though, throw the reward sooner and out on the line. It looks like you were rewarding from your hand which builds more value for coming to you and not staying on the line.This means you will need to run with the toy in your hand so you can throw it easily and on time, which is great experience for her as she learns to self-regulate arousal. If she is not great about bringing it back right away, have a 2nd toy to call her back to. You can also use a food toy like a lotus ball or treat hugger, as long as she can open it herself and not need you there to open it.
One more idea about reward placement:
To get her to not jump up on you: don’t use a ‘yay good girl’ because that is not super clear and she will jump up. Instead, use a reward marker and throw the reward. Ifyou are throwing the reward, jumping up won’t be a problem. You will likely need to work out getting the toy back after you throw it so you can really work on the distance and layering skills.Sequence 2 went well too – when she lines up between your feet (fun skill!) be sure to step away and have her on the correct side so she knows which way to go rather than releasing from between your feet.
Seq 3: If you are not layering, try to run that opening line 1-2-3-4 silently, so you crank up your connection – that is where her questions are (not enough connection). Same goes for any sequence not layering: run silently to really emphasize connection and not high arms looking ahead. Yes, I am evil 🤣😂😁 but it will make a huge difference!
Seq 4 – throwing the toy will hope teach her to go find the jump on the other side of the tunnel too. I think the layering and distance is important for her, so rather than run these drills without layering, break them down to teach the layering.
Nice work here!! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
He is finding the jump really well here from all sorts of different positions!
Was he mainly looking at you, or were you getting glancing at the jump? (Hard to see his eyes on video) Looking at you works well on the shorter lead outs, and you can keep building up the ‘please glance at the jump’ skill with a placed visual target to help him forward look at the jump.
>Ven is releasing on movement so I’m going to try to work on that away from obstacles, in the house where it’s cooler.>
You can definitely work the forward focus with the stay without the jump in the cool house – that way you can add a bit of praise before the release after he looks at the target or toy. Or, after the praise, you can toss a reward to him for holding the stay. That should help clarify what the release is – he does seem to think that motion is part of it, because the motion of a hand or foot movement is coming almost simultaneously with the verbal. He can see even tiny movements 🙂 So you can be completely stationary when using the verbals to help clarify things.
Getting a glance or full look at the jump will help as the courses get bigger and crazy, so it might be a good project to re-visit in the coming weeks. What he was doing here was perfect for moving to the handling games!
>ump grids tonight. Maximum of 5 passes. Any thoughts on what height to start with? He has been jumping 14 most of the time in class and on his focus forward work. Then we’ll work some weave distractions and holding stays with me behind him.>
I didn’t see this til just now, sorry!!!!! How did it go? The height of the last jump depends on the distance (I don’t go to a taller height til the distance t the last jump is 12 feet or so). But the dogs always give us feedback – if it is too high, they hit the bar. Let me know how it went!
Great job here!Tracy
Good morning!
These went super well – my ideas (and the adjustments you made on the video) are really about fine tuning the details.For the first set of sequences (video 1), the main thing to consider is strategically setting up your opening so you don’t have to stand still at all. So on these, being closer to 1 and moving sooner (rather than lateral by the tunnel) can get you to the next positions even better. You’ve done a great job teaching her the layering skills, so not we can strategize 🙂
Seq 1:
Nice FF and stay! The lateral lead out not really needed here as it causes you to stand still too long then hustle, which can actually make it harder to get where you need to be.Seq 2: Leading out on this one and standing still is what created the send to the off course tunnel. She was correct! You had to send her past you because you were stationary, so the send pointed out the tunnel quite nicely 🙂
You got 3 by standing still more at :42 but we want you to be moving the whole time 🙂 No standing still on the bigger courses, the ideal is to stay in motion the whole darn time.Seq 3: Nice timing on the BC and in in! Wrap cues will have to come almost immediately after the in in, especially a decel as you are doing the in in cue, to tighten up the exit of the threadle.
You made a GREAT adjustment at 1:32 with the BC to the threadle slice. I had just finished typing:
I think BC at 1:18 can be a little earlier, maybe by a stride or two so the threadle is visible as she is taking off for jump 5 before the threadle. She was a little wide, so the BC can start when you see her looking at 5 after landing from 4That is exactly what you did at 1:32. Gorgeous turn on 5 set up a great threadle!
Putting it all together: Very nice opening, BC, threadle! You did brake arms on 6 and got some collection, but this is a spot where a full reverse spin might be the best cue for her: It will get more collection/tighter turn, and it will turn your feet to the new line sooner than a brake arm/post turn will.
Running into the ending line from 6-7 made it a little harder to get the BC to the backside at the end, so the timing was not as perfect as it was at 1:32 but it was still early enough that she got a great turn there.
(Remember to add in quiet praise between the mark cue and the release if you didn’t have it here)
2nd video: this is definitely a less-is-more opening 🙂 You can basically hang out near jump 1 the whole time because it becomes jump 7 🙂 The goal is that as she is taking off for 6, you are already showing threadle position on 7. Stay close to 1, drive a step or two to 2, then cue the next big line without you going up along the tunnel much at all.
Using your opening strategically will get you up the line sooner – you will want to be settling into the threadle jump (in threadle position, facing her) as she is taking 5. You were only a little ahead at :10 so she took 6 but didn’t see turn cues in time because you were still hustling to position.
At :29 you had more decel and earlier verbals and were further ahead at 5, but there was still movement forward before the threadle so she was wide
The key will be to handle 5-6 as a stay-on-your-line with verbals and parallel path motion, rather than a send then got to position moment. :52 was a good spot where you can you decelerated to send to 6 but that caused you to then have to move forward into position before the threadle. That one step forward sent her wide/made the turn and threadle cues late.
Compare to 1:15 where you stayed in motion and got into the threadle sooner, and had a much better turn!
Where you can send more is to 8 to get the line to the tunnel. As she lands from the threadle, be right there and send to the jump. That will get a nice turn to the tunnel and you can set up the line even sooner! If she might be wide, send with 2 hands (brake arms).
Nice blind cross on the tunnel exit! A skill to add is doing the jump after the tunnel as a RC into layering the next line. I am seeing that over and over on course, so it is a good one to put into your toolbox 🙂
Great job here!! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
He did well taking the jump each time on the forward focus video! It was hard to see if he was looking at the jump but I think he was looking at you? So you can add a target or placed reward to this, to help him learn to love looking at the jump 🙂Then you are fading the target or placed reward and moving to a thrown reward: when he does look at you and you release him, throw the reward to the landing side of the jump to really solidify the commitment to the jump as you get further and further away.
When he is looking at the jump, you can also add a bit of praise before the release so he doesn’t move before you use the verbal release. On the first rep he left for the jump before the release and at 1:32 he released when your foot stepped forward. So to make sure he is 100% sure of what the release is, the praise will help him understand it is not your motion and it is not when he knows what you want 😁 it is the verbal 🙂
He had one bar down on the FF video 0 it might have been because it was a weird new skill and he was processing your position – the FC happened as he was over the bar so it was a little late, and he is new enough to this type of lead out that he was not sure of how to collect for it. The bar was not a problem at all on the next rep, he jumped that really well!
At :17 on the 2nd video, he did look forward, I could totally see him turn his head. YAY!! When he does that, you can throw the toy out past the jump on the landing side, rather than reward back at you, to help affirm that looking at the jump is a good thing 🙂
Nice work here! Let me know how the grids go this weekend!
Tracy
Hi!
He gave great info here! He was pretty engaged overall on a really hard skill!
One thing I notice is that when you are leading out without connection, his attention wanders a bit especially when there is noise in the environment. So, stay connected and you can even quietly praise on the lead outs.
>so like if we have failures, then I make it easier and he gets it, then I make it harder and he fails again, then we have to stop and go back to easier again or quit the session? >
If he gets the 2 failures, you find the success point and do a couple of reps there. The watch the video (I know, I know, I am a pain) to see what is going on before doing more. Then come back and get success and make an adjustment if needed. And maybe inch out to a slightly harder rep, and maybe inch out a little more… but not a lot and end the session on success. It might mean we don’t get to where we wanted to be, but that is fine.
When watching the video, I look for things like connection, what the cue looks like, and placement of reinforcement. For this skill, I think the reward placement is key:
– using a target or placed reward as a visual aid to help jumpstart the behavior when you are lateral will really help.
– when you are fading the target/placed reward and throw the reward, throw it to the same place you would place it (on the landing side of 1).You got closer to the jump at 1:10 which totally helped, but note the reward placement: right at your feet, which continues to build value for being near you. And at 1:38, he did great finding it with you later but the reward placement was at the tunnel exit, which also is about being near you.
He got it nicely at 3:09 when you were pretty lateral! The reward there was also closer to your feet. That lateral distance rep would be a great stopping point for the session. He ended on a failure when you tried a harder one (plus dog barking in the distance and his attention wandered on the lead out, so he was not fully prepared when you released him).
So definitely start with the placed reward/target for now, because I think getting him to consistently turn his head to the jump will really help! It is a way of him saying “I’m ready” and will generally let you know if he is going to be successful or not.
>I can’t remember when we “reset” that count as guidance.>
The 2 failure rule doesn’t reset in the session 🙂 and watching the video and starting again counts as the same session. It resets in the next session which could be later in the day or the next day or a few days later.
>Should I have used more motion forward, like even just one step?>
You can, but ultimately, I think his question was about value. The jump is nice! But the you and the lotus ball are nicer 🙂 and when you were lateral, he stayed on a line, but it was a line towards you and the lotus ball.
>I also think I should have gone up to the jump to show it, then move into position EVERY TIME. >
That may or may not help yet – I think once the jump has value that overrides your position, then it will totally help.
So for the next session try the placed reward or a target like an empty bowl. You can even do it indoors in the glorious air conditioning, from a stay without a jump!
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi! These both looked great and you were able to use a TON of your layering skills!!!
Jumping 1 went really well!!
Strategically, I think you were heading up to the end of the tunnel near the 4 jump too much in the first couple of runs: in run 1, you went up too deep into the tunnels and waited too long at 4 so didn’t get the backside at :19. If you get behind her on a backside send, hold the backside cue (line of motion, big connection, arm back, verbal) until she is basically arriving at the backside wing. You turned forward early and that is what curved her to the front of the jump.
You got the backside at :46 on run 2 and 1:15 on run 3 but it is much easier if you don’t go as far up the tunnels
>The second day of working it, I gave her a bit of a running start. She does good with her “look” and distance release, but I know that it isn’t super comfortable for her so I gave her a break from it.>
The running start/less of a lead out can actually work best in this particular opening. She can go do 2-3-4 independently with you hanging back closer to the 6 jump (not going to the end of the tunnel near 4). That way you are further ahead of her when she exits the tunnel to get the backsides on 6.
At 2:09 you were furthest ahead when she exited tunnel 5 and when getting the backside at 6 because you didn’t go as far up to the end of the tunnel.
Nice blind 6-7, threadle to 8 and GO 9-10! Super nice try at the weaves, I think she was like “THIS IS CRAZY” plus you were pulling away a tiny bit. At 1:27, you were a little closer while still layering, and held your parallel path better – and she got it! WOWZA!!! She was really confident with the weave entry on the last run too.
>I also noticed I gave cues earlier the second day, and I liked the way we handled 6, 7, and 8 better.>
Yes, I agree! At the end of the session, you did a FC on the left turn wrap of 7 – that seemed like a super fast efficient line that propelled her into the next line with a ton of extension (2:16)
One other thing to consider. On the Push at 13: don’t back up! Caused too much extension on the tunnel exit at 1:40 and 2:31. That is a perfect spot for some countermotion (German turn): you are moving forward past the jump as she is heading to the backside so you do a blind on the exit – that gets you further ahead to better turn her on the tunnel exit and get the next backside too.
The end of the course was definitely a place you cued sooner, particularly the turn to the tunnel 19-20. The timing was really good at 2:41 and she had a great turn to the tunnel, with you being able to get way ahead. Super!
Jumping 2:
Your lead out position was really good – you can line her up on a slice at 1, so she lands facing 2 and doesn’t need to add extra collection strides.
On the backside at 4, don’t back up to help her come in. It is not a German (no blind cross) but you can till use countermotion to be moving forward to 5 as she is going to the backside on 4.
>I might try working the backside/threadle wrap from layering tomorrow morning (I think I might be able to get the threadle wrap but not sure about the backside).>
Do you mean on jump 4? I think the threadle wrap is a harder line coming in from 3 and sets up a harder line to 5 – I liked your backside push slice! You can play with the threadle wrap and layering too, but I bet the push slice is the winning line. When you did the TW on the 2nd run, it was harder to get her to come to the correct side of 4.
SUPER nice job with the independent weaves!!! That made getting 9 easy!
The bar at 10 came down at :40 because you were running backwards facing her and she was not quite sure how to set up the turn. At 1:35, you were fully rotated on the FC and she had no questions. Yay!
That bar did come down when it was 15 at 1:45, but I think that was a late cue with the shoulder turn and tunnel verbal: she was looking past the tunnel then tried to adjust in the air
Give her the tight turn cue for 16 before she enters it happened when she was already in the tunnel, which was a little late at :55 and 1:47, especially when you were driving to the entry of 17 there.
>I also think I want to try to layer the tunnel for the last 2 jumps. The first option worked better but we almost collided!>
Yes! I think you will easily be in good position to BC the exit of 17 to get 18-19 on your right: as long as you are at the exit before she enters, the BC is safe 🙂 So you can send her to the 16 tunnel without moving forward much at all, then cue the entry of 17 with you basically hanging out at the exit of 17. When she locks onto 17, do the BC and reconnect with her on your right for the last 2 jumps.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Yes – the praise in that moment is really more for us humans so we don’t fall into being utterly predictable 🙂 Dogs are great at predicting the number of seconds, or the number of steps we take before the release, etc.
Hi!
>Lift’s seminar on Sunday is called Novice Zoom Zoom -it’s going to be more like Novice Putt-Putt with the weather forecast!>
Ye, it will be hard to stay cool if it is in the heat of the day, maybe being indoors is possible!
>She does get measured regularly by Dr Julia and is typically even. However her June 4 visit had a typo in the notes as 1 rear limb is 24cm and the other is 264cm! I emailed to ask if Dr Julia remembered her being even or not. >
Yay for being measured!!! A 2 cm difference would be significant if it was 26 versus 24, but Dr. Julia would have probably said something if that was the case?
>Kaladin had a fairly nice RDW, but it needs more maintenance. He’s always missed one here and there but it’s deteriorating which is why I am running him through the Shape Up foundation exercises too. (figured I might as well since Lift was doing it). He got a toenail in one and put his cape on for the other one at the Cup last weekend. He also has a tendency to make the judge think too hard on the a-frame (or obviously misses it). He’s better at the 5ft 3in frame which making me think about moving him down to 12 select later this year. TBD on what he jumps at the Open but I definitely want him at 12 select for next year’s Invitational.>
Hmmmm might be head position on the frame and that is also a factor on the RDW. Or, does he leap the apex of the frame? That can help get him deeper into the contact zone? Send a video of a miss so we can obsess!!
Tracy
Hi!
NICE runs here!!!
The runs here fall into the category of motion/connection/verbals working together early enough that he had time to adjust as needed. He had very few questions because you were moving a lot, arms were generally low (there was one or two high arm moments but on those, the arm was straight up in the European style where he could see connection from below it). Even in the layering (a jump after a tunnel at one point with you miles ahead), no questions from him.And verbals were super clear, including coming over the previous bar… no problems.
The timing of starting the cues was really good too – as he was approaching the previous obstacle, the cues for the next obstacle were pretty much underway in every moment. That is really helpful for him!
I am not sure if the 4 versus 5 foot bars or heavier bars made a difference – that is something we can track! Data is our friend LOL!
I am excited to see how he does in the seminar next weekend – I am sure the lines and distances will be great, and require you to stay in motion at all times with lots of layering. If there is a jumping trouble spot, grab the distance and we will track the data to see if certain distances create questions.
I still think something to play with is varying the levels of volume/pitch/rhythm verbals as that will match up even better to get more extension on certain parts and tighten wrap (like the threadle wraps).
And the distances on the Marin setup are good – do you still have your home setup so we can measure the exact distance between the jumps? Sometimes we find an awkward distance that we need to teach the dog – he definitely felt that setup was awkward.
Great job, keep me posted!
Tracy
Hi!
>I will say that I’m really trying to practice what I preach to my clients trying to get extreme productivity, and that’s to not say yes to everything even if it seems fun. Right now the estimated ROI has got to be high for me to do a thing! Ha!>
HA!!! Wait, are we supposed to say NO to things? Hmmmmmm. That is hard LOL!!!
>We will work on increasing challenge in our next round by putting me on the other side of the tunnel. Should I also be switching sides to turn the other direction, or doesn’t really matter for teaching the skill?>
Yes, you can totally switch sides. And if he has trouble with you on the other side of the tunnel, you can put a toy or target out past the jump to help direct his focus.
Keep me posted!
Tracy
Hi!
>I was able to cue the jump ok but I don’t think either of them really looked to the jump with out me stepping towards it and flinging my arm a bit. They are both very handler focused as a general rule I think.>
Yes – they both were able to take the jump but mainly when you were ahead or parallel to them, and they did a little zig into you and zag back out on those.
Ideally, you can cue the looking forward with your arm and leg pointing to the jump then they look at it, then you release. So you can work on it with a toy or target (like an empty food bowl) on the other side of the jump. Ask them to sit, put the reward down, then point it at: when they look at it, release them to it. You don’t even need a jump for it, you can do it on the flat inside in the A/C 🙂
Then when they are good on the flat, you can put a jump in there to transfer the skill then fade out the target/toy but keep the arm & leg cue to look at the jump.
Nice work here! Let me know how it goes with the toy or target placed out ahead of them!
Tracy
Hi!
>Heat index 104, working with the shade that was available in the back yard, first session of focus forward>
Ugh, how is it so hot already!!! At least you had a bit of shade available!
Looking at the forward focus:
>In reviewing it, I think I need to work more on getting him looking towards the jump before I release>
Yes, that would be good so you know where he is locked onto 🙂 It was a little hard to see where he is looking (black dog in the shade) but you can use a target out past the jump, or a placed reward, and build in the cue to look forward (hand pointing at the jump) as well as wait to see if he will look towards the jump before the release.
It looks like he was looking at you for these, which worked fine for the reps where you were ahead of him or parallel, but was harder on the reps where you were behind him.
Plus, adding in a low & slow arm point to the jump will help him know that the cue to look at the jump and the arm movement are NOT the release – he had a little question about that on one of the reps. And it will help give him a good look at jump 1, to keep the bar up.
>The one time he knocked the bar, I had moved it to 16″ instead of 14″.
On that rep, he was also looking at you til he was released so didn’t quite get coordinated in time. Looking at the jump will really help!
>That’s a conversation we need to have because he is really struggling with 16″ jumps. Ruled out physical issues but he’s a tad heavy so I’m working to take about 1 pound off of him plus started some rear end strengthening exercises from our conditioning instructor. >
Ruling out an issues and doing conditioning stuff are the exact place to start! Core strength stuff, hind end strengthening, and plyometrics all help a lot. And he should be as skinny through the ribs as you can get him, with big slabs of muscle on his shoulders, back legs, and down his spine.
>Are there jump grid exercises from MaxPup or other sources you would recommend we work?>
MaxPup 2 has a bunch! It is in week 8. The accordion grid is where I would look at height because the 3rd jump moves progressively further and further away (you can modify the distances to get it to be 15 and 18 feet away from the first 2 jump). And you can add more and more height to jump 3 in that grid.
Plus, the set point is the grid where most times we start to increase the height of the 2nd jump (first one stays low). That is week 1 of MaxPup 2 🙂
And some bars fall because the dog is processing info AND we humans are late (I know, I know, that is very rare 🤣😂🤣) so we will look at your timing this summer to see how early we can get the cues coming out for him 🙂
> I’m guessing different muscles are needed for him to take a 16″ jump arc vs 12″ because he rear thighs are nicely muscled.>
Yes, that is where it is the difference between pushing upwards (16”) and forwards (12”). And choosing the striding to be able to sort out how to takeoff properly.
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
Lift is doing well with the added challenges here!
She seems a bit better with the focus forward on your right side, but that could also be that you were on the same side of the tunnel as she was.
To get a faster look at the jump on your left side, you can stick with the placed toy for more reps or mix it back in a lot after you take it out. Also, when it is not in you can throw the toy to the landing spot
Kaladin: He is doing really well looking at the jump!! On most of the reps, he was looking at the jump as you raised your hand. SUPER!!! You can add a verbal to this if you want, or you can keep it silent 🙂
>Apparently I haven;t done enough “dead toy on the ground as reward” work for him. >
Yeah, that was interesting!! He looked forward really well but he didn’t go over the jump. Hmmmm. You can try a 4” bar so it is barely a jump because it is a good skill to have (taking the jump to get to a placed reward). But he is doing great looking at the jump without it!
>Taking a pause on Camp stuff until next week. Monica Bush is here this weekend and Kaladin is in a session on Sat AM and Lift on Sun PM. Unfortunately last weekend’s lovely weather has deteriorated into forecasts for highs in the low 90s… (and yes – seminar is outdoors at Animal Inn but I think parts of it can move inside) >
Fingers cross for decent weather! Outdoors in the heat & humidity is hard so hopefully they can move things inside during the hot part of the day, although the mats make it challenging.
>Or maybe the metereologists are wrong and the rain and drop into the mid 70s will happen earlier than Monday.>
This would be ideal!
>Therapist thinks her lumbral-sacro area might have tightened up again after getting released during the massage.>
Interesting! I wonder what might be causing it. Does she do anything wackadoo during daily like that would cause it? Or maybe it is a compensation from a strength imbalance? Has the therapist or chiro ever measured her muscles to see if they are all identical on both sides?
>Earlier this week I was really close to giving up on the RDW and training a stop for both dogs because after several mat sessions on the flat (over the last few months) and then switching to a low plank, both dogs suddenly decided the squish mat was lava. >
Ah yes, I recognize the “I AM JUST GOING TO PUT A STOP ON THE DOG WALK ERA”. The low plank is enough of a change that it would change the behavior.
>Then wondered if it could be physical or that a plank on a 12in table was too big a step. So did a session earlier this week with the plank on an 8in table and both dogs did much better. >
Perfect! 4 inches can definitely change the angle significantly enough.
>Still not sure I have it in me to keep going much longer with the RDW, except that I’m pretty sure neither one is going to like stopping.>
I think you will be able to get it with Lift! Plow through the hard parts!!! And Kaladin probably needs maintenance or proofing, I remember him having a good RDW!!
Nice work here 🙂
Tracy
