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Hi!
> I am using a lowered teeter with Max. He is back to happily running over it. I think because at LUDS they use a table and pads, so the end of the teeter is high and you have to stop or fall, it confused Max. Is your teeter class lowered or does it use tables (which I don’t have)>
The teeter class has multiple games to cover all elements of teeter training – on some of them, the end of the teeter is low (the full teeter is not, but they don’t run across it for those games). There is one set of games where the teeter is full height and the dog runs to the top – but you don’t need tables or anything fancy/expensive to prop it up 🙂 It is easy and fun! And the games all work together to be very clarifying for the pups.
>Saving my pennies so we can take Max Pup 3. We have learned so much and everyone is impressed with Max.
You are doing a great job with him! So fun to watch!!!
>do you ever do privates? Thanks>
Sometimes, when I am home from being on the road and the weather is good. That is pretty rare LOL but I want to rent Level Up this summer hopefully. Maybe we can bug Carol to see what they have available 🙂
Tracy
Hope you had a fun trial! You can probably add the forward focus to the jump – start with the food bowl or toy on the ground past the jump to get things started. If that goes well, try it with the jump and cue forward focus – and release to a thrown reward when he does it 🙂
T
Good morning!
>Ellie and I could still use help with the basic backside jumps, so I decided to not add the extra challenge of the tunnel. For this week, I offset the wing relative to the jump and I added a “get-out” arm. These things helped a lot and now Ellie is consistently going to the backside of the jump. Yay!>
Yes! She drove to it well! You might not need to keep using the get out arm – you can use connection and that might be even easier as you add more running.
Yes – dropping the ball is a really good reward for her! You can change the placement and timing of it slightly to help out: as soon as she is arriving at the entry wing, you can toss the ball back to the landing spot next to that wing. You were tossing it a little later and closer to you, so she was locking onto the line you were on. If you toss is sooner and closer to the entry wing, she will start looking for the bar sooner (and looking at you less).
>Currently we are at the baby-level for the german turns: starting from a stay. That’s going really well, but if I try to add the backside jump, I can’t get to the exit wing soon enough. Is there any kind of in-between step I can do to help me get that lateral distance?>
To get the german turn exit, you will need to get her to go to the backside with you moving up the line towards the center of the jump bar or closer to the exit wing. You were pretty much doing that (center of the bar) so the next steps would be to:
– move forward to the exit wing (adding countermotion with that line of travel). You were moving parallel to the bar more like a serp, which will make getting the german harder.
– you will probably need to start jogging so you can get there sooner 🙂
> Now that Ellie has the idea of going to the backside, would it help to move the wing so that it isn’t offset? I guess I wouldn’t actually be that lateral from the dog then, but at least I wouldn’t have as far to go to get to the exit wing?>
Not yet – if you are going to add the countermotion of the exit, we don’t want to change any other variables yet. And if the wing is offset and the backside is no longer on the parallel path, then you might have to handle the backside differently (by stepping to it, depending on where the wing is)/
>Interestingly, she loves the backside wraps! My previous dogs thought these were really hard, so I was surprised that Ellie seems to think these are way easier than the slices.>
Yes! Those looks great!!! She was super tight and seemed to have zero questions about the countermotion. Yay!
>Last thought – Ellie is going way wide on her wing wraps. I didn’t try to fix this, but I would like to tighten things up a bit to be more efficient.>
That was mainly because you were blocking the line to the wing, so she was pinging out wide to see where to be. For the circle wraps, let her see the whole wing by setting your line of motion to where the wing and bar meet. That should tighten things up!
Great job here!
TracyHi! This was supposed to post yesterday but I never clicked the ‘submit’ button. Sorry!!!
His stay is looking really strong here! His commitment also looked great and he is turning exactly as we want him to do when you released him to the jump. Perfect! He didn’t mind when you were leading out and trying to fix your line of motion 🙂 because he kept getting rewarded. Super! And he didn’t mind when you led out directly to your spot: he has strong forward focus to the jump so he was great about taking the jump.
> Max only had one boo-boo and that was when I meant to do a throwback. I was standing in the middle of the bar, but I did a front cross instead so that blocked the bar and Max went around the wing.>
Yes – that looked like you were pushing him through to the backside, good job Max!! You were perfect on the next rep and he got the front side of the bar.
He seems to think the foot step is the release, so be careful to release separately from moving your feet. You can see that at 1:48 where you stepped forward with your right leg and he almost released, but then caught himself when he didn’t hear the release word. Good boy! So you can say the word *then* step to the jump, or slowly point your foot forward to the jump (so it doesn’t look like you are stepping to it) then say the release word. I think either will work nicely because he has strong forward focus.
Great job!
TracyHi!
>We discovered that his contact performance is dependant on me driving ahead of him he’s not 100% clear yet on driving into position independently. >
That is good to know!
>My question was what’s wrong with that?>
This is a valid question!!!!
>things always go better when he’s chasing me as opposed to me chasing him.>
Right! And you run really well, so maybe it is not a high priority.
>Sessions on the floor were too long and too many reps – he started questioning why he was being asked to repeat which led to his offering behaviors. >
I can see his point, something like “I just did this 3 times, maybe they want something different since we keep doing it?” On the video, he looked confused – there was no action and all eyes on him, and I don’t think he really knew what to do. So even with him driving ahead, you can make it dynamic – like start him next to the side of the plank, get him ready, then do a ready set TARGET with some excitement and see if he drives into position. The cookie target out past the regular target might have also felt weird to him.
>I’ll add the driving ahead into position to my list at a C or D level>
PERFECT!! Maybe someday you can move them up to B or A…. But today does not have to be that day.
>Broke his startline and the DW was an off course – I just went with it>
I think that the start line was more of a miscommunication – he was not quite settled into the sit yet (he had to do a body shake) but you were getting to your lead out nice and fast… so he kind of wandered towards you, not sure if he was staying or not. But it was good decision to just run because the Leah runner was moving towards him.
Looks like he had a distraction in the back by the a-frame… you can keep going there too, make something up, run your invisible Cody. He was really good for the rest of the course!!
On the 2nd run he tried to resist whoever was behind him, but eventually succumbed to the urge to visit. If someome is right there, you don’t even need a stay – you can just do a quick ready set go start to get him moving off the line. He wa a little more distracted in this run but then finished strong!
>I left the trial thinking it was a disaster, let things settle for a couple of days and then went back and watched the videos – there’s some good stuff in there! >
Yes!! There was definitely good work in there! How far is Doggie U from you – any possibility of taking classes there?
>His first two classes of the day were his best, so next time out, I’m only going to enter him in two classes and work on building from there. >
That sounds smart and will help keep his brain from getting tired.
>Starting my summer boat job this weekend, so trialing will be one day a month thru October>
Fun!!!!!!! (The boat job sounds fun!). One day a month is good, you can still get good stuff going.
>With the oops at the opening I chose to keep some flow instead of setting him up for a restart. >
That was good- he is used to there being a lot of motion off the start line so he seemed to think this opening was weird LOL
>Oops again at around 2.04 I kept going and finished for reward – you can hear the instructor asking me why “he didn’t do what he was supposed to” >
It was hard to hear but I am confused. Just looked like a handling blooper there, which is why he took the line he was one. He was being really good! And you kept things moving really well so he stayed super engaged.
Nice work!
Tracy
Good morning!
Yay! The tunnel threadles look good! Yes – when you were turned and showing the cue before he exits the wrap, he got it right every single time. When you were late and the body showed “go straight” even if you said the threadle verbal, he (correctly) went to the straight end of the tunnel. A good example of that is at :43 and also at :58 – your line of motion totally sent him into the straight-ahead tunnel entry.
Withdrawing the toy and changing your body language in those moments can be frustrating for him (he was slowing down because the cues were a bit unclear and therefore how to earn reinforcement was unclear), so for now… take the threadle verbal off and just use his name. That way, if *you* get it wrong, he can be rewarded without any concerns about diluting the verbal. He is responding really well so we don’t want to confuse or frustrate him by withdrawing the toy when there is a handler error.
Lateral lead outs went really well! He found the jump with no questions and was setting up a nice turn too. Super! Have you been working on a forward focus to the jump? If so… add it here 🙂 When you arrive in position, cue him to look at the jump. Then release when he does. If you have not started the forward focus yet, let me know and we will get it started.
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
>We have been caught in a rain cycle that doesn’t want to quit!!! >
Ugh it has been so rainy. It seems to be following me. Everything is so muddy LOL!
>On the first attempt, I tossed the toy into a poop area which I hadn’t seen. After a little circle, Ringo came back and body slammed into me. >
Hard to tell from the video… but it looked more like he was going for the toy and got your knee as he grabbed the toy. I watched it in slow motion like a total nerd LOL and in the moment it might have felt like a body slam but in the video, it looked like a toy grab that included your knee. More accidental and miscommunication about if the toy was available or not, and not an intentional body slam where he comes up at you.
>I was about as harsh as I can be and I see that his tail went from happy to still. >
Yes – he was surprised. I might also have given a loud WTF OUCH BE CAREFUL if one of my dogs grabbed my hand or whammed my knee while trying to grab a toy too because OUCH!!!!! Knees are expensive to fix, ouch! But maybe you were also sensitized because of what happened at UDog?
> I left it in here because I unfortunately had a situation at UDog….that really rattled me and I would really like to improve his understanding that jumping and body slamming are not acceptable. >
Tell me more, or send me the video, so we can figure out what happened. He has been BRILLIANT lately and if something happened, I am totally here to help you figure it out (you can message or email privately if you prefer). Team Ringo will figure this out!
If you have video, send over as much as you have before it happened, and then during what happened, etc. The whole chain of events, lay it on me.
>He has been SO GREAT on my normal training situations when I can keep his focus….but I can’t predict or control every situation. >
Right, he has been SUPER. And he has been resilient to handler errors (because we all make errors LOL) and he was perfection at the JAG seminars. So, let’s hash through what happened and see what was different or what tipped it off. That will also help you feel less rattled!
>So I would like your thought on how I handled the body slam ….is this approach going to create more of a problem or is it clear enough to him that he needs to be more careful around me and people in general….and then we get back to normal? >
In this situation, I don’t think it was a body slam 🙂 but I DO think that whatever happened previously bubbled over into this. Yes, it can create problems – this one time is no big deal, but it is not something we want to do consistently (plus I am sure you didn’t enjoy it either). When one of my dogs is not careful and grabs my handle or slams me to get a toy, I firmly say something like “that is a BULLSHIT BEHAVIOR”. And they do not get the toy, or they lose their turn. It happens very rarely, almost never, because there is a nice balance of thrown treats for letting me walk around with the toy and not grabbing for it, and also generally consistent marker words for when it is available.
If it involves jumping on other people, I teach a different behavior for the greeting. It depends on the dog – but telling them they are wrong without teaching how to be right (and not allowing the wrong stuff for a while) can develop a lot of frustration and more franticness around people.
Since he is so young and the handling side of things is going so well, you can shift focus to this – in public settings, drop back the level of difficulty on course and that way you can pump up the behaviors you want and get rid of unwanted behavior.
>I hope you don’t mind my asking this here. He is such good boy with so much joy & potential but he just doesn’t seem to get that he is too big and can hurt folks.>
I don’t mind at all, I am here for ya! And yes – he doesn’t see to get it because I don’t think he has been taught how to NOT pummel other people (I am guessing the UDog thing involved someone else?). But he has gotten a lot of work on not pummeling YOU and that has improved SO MUCH.
The handling part went really well! He was really good about reading the differences in the cues. My only suggestion is that on the serps, you can stay more parallel to the bar. You were pulling away a little, so he got the ‘come in’ part very easily but it would be harder to get the ‘got back out’ part if we added another jump. So a you move through the serp, you can have your line of motion go completely parallel to the bar and your shoulders facing the center of the bar.
When you added the backsides:
>I was really late when we got to the backside part. He is not that fluent at backsides and my timing was pretty bad. >
You weren’t late, it was more of a line of motion question.
On the first 2 reps, you said push but turned to the front side so motion overrode the verbal. Great job keeping him moving!
Stepping to it helped but the key will be handling it as a parallel path – at 3:39, when you were thinking you were late, you did say the verbal sooner but also you moved up the parallel line more and he got it.
Anytime he scooted to the front side, it was because your body had turned o the front. Your arm was pointing to the backside but the rest of the body was pointing to the front. So instead of using your arm to point forward, keep it back towards his nose and look at his eyes (connection really helps) as you move on a line parallel to his path.
You can put a line on the ground to help with that – the first position for the line would be from the wing send to where the bar and the entry wing meet, moving forward along that line til he commits to the backside. Then you can move the line further over, while still working on the parallel path. You can turn to the next line (exit wing) after he commits to going to the backside.
Nice work here!!
TracyGood morning!
I am so sorry that I somehow missed this! I saw it come and I must have replied in my mind only. Sorry!
>He is also able to fail without melting down which is a huge improvement!>
THIS is the most exciting part! He was like “try me again” after a failure and that is exactly what we want.
The session went really well! The proofing is getting better and better, he is having a high rate of success. How does he feel about his collar being held? Because he is ready to go on the first sound, you can hold his collar, say the verbal a few times, then let him go. That will give him a moment to process the verbal before he moves, which means he is more likely to get it right 🙂 And you can also make your tunnel verbals louder (feel free to yell LOL!) Match the volume of your tunnel verbals to what you would do on course (mine are pretty loud) because the volume of a verbal also helps the dogs differentiate (Loud = go forward in extension, quiet = tight turn)
Motion in the smiley face game went GREAT! Now we can start to sort out his timing – I think he can see you running forward until he is out of the tunnel… then decel (but don’t rotate til he collects for takeoff). That might seem early but he is really fast, so that is the general timing for the really fast dogs 🙂 You can add the diamond game because you can also work the decel there, and the other handling options will keep things exciting for you both.
Great job!!
TracyGood morning!
Overall, I think this went well!! His only questions were when you were adding more distance away from the entry wing.
On the first couple of reps, your motion was supporting the line to the backside. On the 3rd rep, your arm got high and broke connection, so your shoulders pointed to the front of the jump (so he took the front). That also happened at 1:06 and the rep after it.
So to keep him going to the backside as you add more distance, use less arm and more connection. Your dog side arm can be down and pointing to his nose, and the connection should be VERY big, looking directly at him as you say the backside verbal. That will turn your shoulders to the backside line and should support it better.
Great job with your placement of reinforcement. You can see at the beginning he was not entirely sure he was supposed to take the jump when he arrived at the backside, but thanks to your quick and consistent toy drops, he totally had it figured out by the end. Super!
The exit line work went really well too, with him finding the jump behind you. The last rep where you put it all together looked really good!
The circle wraps went really well – be sure he can see the wing fully (don’t block his line). Great job moving through it as soon as he passed you!
So the only thing to add is the lower arm and bigger connection as you cue the backsides.
Great job!
TracyWe missed you last night!
For Lu, keep playing the ‘find the jump’ games and bring them to as many different places as possible. I would stick to lower bars and food for now as that seems to be the most successful and she is doing great! You can add tugging before and after, add your motion because eventually we would like to be able to run run run the way you can run (you are FAST and I know Lu will love that, but she is not quite ready for it yet :))Next time you have a UKI trial, you can enter some class with lots of jumps and bring 4 or 5 toys (and a helper) – and play this game with toys tossed to the other side of the jump. The helper is designed to pick up the toys for you after she brings them back and drop them LOL This is perfectly legal in UKI.
How are her contacts and weaves coming? I think with Lu, getting them on course will help the jumping because it might make more sense to her in terms of flow and jumping finding.
Keep me posted!
Tracy
Hi!
>I’m also thinking this might be a good exercise to introduce his ‘look’ cue on the first jump. At the moment I have just worked it on the flat away from agility with various objects that have nothing to do with agility and he’s doing pretty good at that so maybe it’s time?>
Yes – his stay is looking really good, and because you’ve already done the flatwork… you can totally add the cue to look at the first jump. If you have an object that he is likely to look at, you can try putting it out past the jump. However, since he likes jumps a lot and he offered a nice look during the previous session, you can try it on a jump and see what happens. If he struggles, you can put the object past the jump to help but I bet he doesn’t struggle!
Keep me posted!
Tracy
Good morning!
Wow, the serps looked great here! You didn’t even have to angle the jumps!
>\I couldn’t get her to turn away from me and take the third jump though.
Usually that happens when we let go of the serp cue too soon and our shoulders end up perpendicular to the jump, so the dog is basically cued to go past it.
>I tried this at home and it worked!
Yes, it was great – keeping the serp cue in place until she turns and looks at the next jump did the job beautifully.
> My question is: When I’m using the opposite arm to get Ellie over the middle jump, should I keep that opposite arm up until she takes off for the third jump? For the single arm version, I’m trying to hold my pose until she commits to the third jump. Do I hold the opposite arm pose until then too?>
Yes, hold the cue on both styles until she turns her head to commit to the next jump. That means if you are using the opposite arm, then hold it in position too. You did this in the video and she took the jump every time here! Yay!
Great job!
TracyHi!
This was good info from her!
> You can’t see it from the camera angle, but at the 3.75ft distance for 10 & 12in, she was striding to the right a bit in the set point area as if she didn’t think she had enough room to go straight. I didnt’ see that drift to the right at 4ft.>
The dragging toy definitely helped with head position! But I also think that the 4 foot spacing might be tight for the 10 and 12 inch jumping. On those, she is pulling upwards over the bar (from her front) rather than the form of the lowered head/hind end push she is using on the lower heights. It would be interesting to see what she does at 4.5 feet and 10″ then 12″ – perhaps that 4 feet is not enough room to powerfully engage her hind end? Try it and let’s obsess LOL!
>And the chase games don’t work so well when you use Lift’s favorite frizzer for Kaladin and he drops it a few feet away and you don’t pick it up. Released her as I threw a different frizzer and she pounced on her favorite and had a grand party of one.>
Ha! But at least she still had a fun time playing with a toy!!
T
Hi!
>Did the alternating chase games with them this morning. (and discovered I own 7 soft but edged frizzers that roll- 1 is twice the size of Lift’s head so we worked with the other 6). Rolled for Kaladin twice and he actually brought them almost all the way back. Then swapped and rolled for her and she charged after it and ran back with it and spit it out a few feet away. Color me shocked! Did one more and she ran back with it but mouthed it a lot before spitting it out so we called it quits and let her run around with Kaladin (frizzer in her mouth).>
That is great! Yay! I realize that if Lift will be unimpressed with Dean holding her for the set point, maybe he can be the Kaladin friz thrower/holder so she watches that then gets the friz for you? It is much easier with 2 people LOL!
>This was after I did a 2×2 session where she did her very first (and a few more) reps of 4 straight poles together!!!! Will post video on my FB page later tonight (have a Classic swag bag stuffing party with committee this evening). The interesting thing is that she was bonkers and jumping and spinning at the start and the first time I sent her to the poles which she normally isn’t even when I do this after we come back from our walk. I had to do some back and forth to get her brains back in her head and then we did a few reps with the poles slightly separated and I put them together and she nailed it.>
Yay for 4 poles!!!!! Super!!! And it is interesting about her being a bit bonkers (<------ scientific term). It is entirely possible that it was in response to the weather system, I am sure the dogs can feel/smell the changes. T
Hi!
> he definitely had some extreme tightness and vertebrae out of alignment in the lumbar region, which likely is contributing to the poor weaves and teeter jump offs. >
Poor dude! Yes, that could definitely contribute.
>> Vet testing was all clear so it’s either just a bit of a training regression or enough pain was caused by the lumbar issues.
Training rarely regresses without an underlying issue, so my guess is that it was his lumbar ouchies.
>I’m getting a second chiro in 2 weeks, and another massage next week because she said she had more that needed work back there.>
Great! I am glad he is going back, especially since the massage person felt she didn’t get all the ouchy spots.
>I did miss class on Monday due to MY shoulder being completely jacked! So he’s not done agility since we started doing all these tests and treatments.
I think I’ll take a step back with the weaves and teeter to ease back into it. Any other suggestions?>It is actually good that he hasn’t done any agility since you started getting him feeling better – we don’t want agility to have any conditioned association with pain. Bummer about your shoulder though!!!! Before you go back to weaves/teeter or any turn training, let him be one week past being cleared by the massage and chiro people. That stuff can linger and cause compensation. The weaves and teeter will come right back when he is feeling gooooooood 🙂
T
