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Hooray! I am glad the Topple was so powerful! Was there anything in it, or she just loves the Toppl so much she doesn’t need anything in it? Is it a big Toppl or a little one? For now, keep the Topple visible and a big part of the picture. We want to develop a lengthy history of running really well in classes with it – let’s get some neural pathways really solidified!
>>Someday I’ll need to know how to fade this.
Having it in your hand for now and then going to your pocket is great – spend lots of time doing this! And you can change to a different size Toppl but only if she likes it.
Then it will be put into the remote reinforcement game so she knows where it is outside the ring and eventually can run courses without it in your hand/pocket. Take your time with that – we want to really build up the focus in class that you had!!!
Keep me posted!
TracyGood morning!
It sounds like the FEO is going well!!
>> I also had two options for a fun course- one involved 10 obstacles and the other involved five. I opted for the five since I felt she would be very successful with that smaller course and I wasn’t sure about the longer one. >>
Good for you!!!!!!
>>Boy that was tough from the human perspective since I drove all the way there and sat around to basically run for 20 seconds lol!>>
Yep – the voice in your head was probably saying things like “do more, it will be fine!” But you made the right decision.
>> Pepper did great on both days but she did amazing on Sunday. She seemed to completely understand the concept of where the treats were outside the ring- which I was very impressed with. >>
Freakin’ awesome! And it is so cool to see the dogs say “I got this!” It definitely helps ease them into their trial careers.
>>I love how you walk through this process because at where I trial there are very few people do anything like this and it can take some courage to go against the grain. So, even as an auditor, I’ve gotten a ton out of this class.>>
I am glad you enjoyed it! And yes, you are going against the grain for sure (people give me a lot of sh*t when I do a lot of FEO with my youngsters… I just ignore it because I have no interest in rushing my pups).
>>We have a NADAC trial in January where I can do FEO on every single run. So my thought was to bounce back-and-forth on whether I bring a toy in, put it in my pocket or do short sequences without. I was also going to use this trial to do FEO with her weave poles in contacts since those are still relatively new for her.>>
The NADAC trial sounds great – definitely do the first run with a toy (just like home) to help her with the environment. And I like your plan to use the toy with contacts & weaves – it will help her bring those skills into the trial environment. For jumping runs, or runs where you don’t need to do contacts/weaves, you can mix in hidden toys or toys/treats outside the ring.
>>After the January trial, we have a three day February AKC trial. The FEO runs are all first thing in the morning and the novice runs aren’t until hours and hours later. >>
If it is close enough to leave then come back, you can do that! It is a long boring day otherwise. You can try a novice JWW run and see how she does with the long wait – she might be just fine 🙂 Novice JWW is easy and fast so even if it goes sideways you can get out fast to the rewards.
>>Maybe you touch on this tonight- if we start competing and things are going great but then we start seeing some stress what is your suggestion? Would you go back to doing the FEO runs, and/or short, small, easy sequences at trials?>>
We did talk about it, I read parts of your post because the questions were so good! Yes, I mix in a TON of FEO early in the dog’s career, so they start out all FEO, then mostly FEO, then maybe half and half… so we fade the FEO slowly rather than stop it quickly.
And yes, if something goes sideways – I will go back to FEO to work through it before trying ‘for real’ again.
I will post the recording in a few minutes. Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
>>My perfection seldom happens>>
Same here – it is really surprising when I am perfect LOL!!
>>What is the last day to post? I would like your feedback next weekend – 2 FEO, 1 for real jumpers>>
December 23rd so yes please to posting your weekend videos! I am excited to see how he does 🙂
Tracy
Good morning! This session went well!
Good connection on the exit of the FCs! And she followed you beautifully on the arc to the toy. Great job with your verbals and reward markers. Yay!
>>At 1:10 I think she wanted treats. She’s losing so many teeth so I suspect that may be why she was like “that cheese seems nice and soft for my mouth right now” lol. >>
It is possible that teething was part of it, and also that she had burned a lot of energy in those reps and needed a break. I have found that with baby whippets their motto is that the training session is a good time, not a long time LOL!! They burn through energy reserves VERY quickly so cannot do the same length of session with toys, and even with food if there is running involved. I am not a whippet expert but whippets of these breedings seem to have this in common (and that is fine, I LOVE the intensity of their work, gimme all the whippets!!!)
For example:
I have 2 puppies dogs in training right now – the baby whippet and a baby BC/Croatian mix (100% herding dog). They both work with a lot of intensity but the whippet works so intently with so much explosiveness that his fuse burns brighter but also shorter.The baby herding dog can work for much longer, because genetically it seems that he works with a little less intensity and a little more endurance. It makes sense, based on what these dogs are bred to do both in terms of genetics of the breed and epigenetics. The whippet is from racing lines and dock royalty, so there is explosiveness emphasized over endurance. The Crollie has working BC and working Croatian lines, so there is less explosiveness (because sheep do not like that LOL!) and more endurance in the genetic selection (and more staring at me LOL)
Side note: the whippet’s work in training is better than the herding dog’s work (sorry, baby herdy dog, you will catch up to your brilliant pointy brother LOL!) so these thoughts are NOT intended to say that herdy dogs are better, just intended to say that they train differently so we can take that into account when structuring sessions. I adore training my whippet!
So what does it mean for Vesper? When using a toy and running, do 2 or 3 reps then give her a decompression moment (food scatter, training break, outside for a pee, something like that) then do a couple more reps in a few minutes. That way she can get some glucose and oxygen into the brain and muscles, and be ready for more. And you will be switching to the food or ending the session before she declines the toy, which is good for building up endurance in training (quit before the pup quits!)
The ‘cash’ marker is great and also HILARIOUS.
>>I think her enthusiasm for the machine will increase the more familiar she becomes with the cue and the contraption.>>
Yes, but also she might always think it is something to move to slowly because… whippet. It is not moving and she is not likely to want to smack it (ouch) so she might think it is something to move more slowly to. I see this with my full pointy and my part-pointies 🙂 And that is fine, because we can use it in situations where we don’t want as much speed or quickness.
>>We had a big hike today with lots of running ans exploring so that’s all the training we did.
Fun!!!! If the weather is decent, you can take these combo games outside to add environmental challenges and also to add more room to run run run 🙂 Great job!
Tracy
Good morning!
OOOH this was fun, I think he really liked the action!! This went really well and he gets a double gold star for the impulse control to do the barrel wrap and ignore the toy on the ground. His tugging looked really good!!!!>>I was virtually certain that he was a right turner, but this exercise solidified that view.>>
Yes, there is a slightly better turn on the right as compared to the left (but the left was good too, so the side preference is minimal). You can help him get to your left side on the FCs to the left with more exaggerated handling and connection:
On the exit of the FC – stand up more rather than crouch, and run forward the new direction. You are side stepping and moving backwards a bit especially on the left turn, maybe to try to get him to the new side – but that widens the turn. You don’t really do it on the right turns.
The other thing that will help is if you open up the connection more by keeping the dog-side shoulder back more (putting your hand behind your butt 🙂 ) so he can really see the new side. And, so he can process that more easily, try it with less motion by staying closer to the barrel on the FC and walking through the FC til he picks up the correct side – then run run run to the toy 🙂 You were really strong with the connection and getting the new side on the right turns (I think you are both happier on that side) so I bet if you match that handling on the left turn side, he will be more easily able to get the left turns. I use a lot of opposite-hand-across-the-body with baby dogs – so on the left turn you can exit the FC with your right hand across your stomach so he really sees the new side connection.
Great job here! I am excited to see you on Thursday!!
Tracy
PS – the session looked pretty perfect from the baby dog arousal regulation point of view!!
Good morning!
Yay for new places!! He did great! He seemed very comfy playing in a new place and that is lovely 🙂
>>he was “insulted” by the tiny 5′ tunnel and kept running to take the big curved tunnel instead, LOL.>>
That is hilarious!!!
He is looking really strong with his turn and burn commitment. Nice job with the verbals!
Only one suggestion: you might notice that when you send from your left, he is very smooth. When you send from your right, he has a few questions. That is because your left leg is always part of the send on that side, which really supports it. On the right side, your right leg does not participate in the send (it prefers to hang back LOL!) so there is a bit of a conflicting cue: upper body says to go to the cone, lower body (right leg) is saying don’t go.
So, easy fix – step to the cone with your right leg the same way you do with your left leg and he will be smooth on that side too : )
Now you can also add the countermotion in the form of starting pretty close to the cone, and turning away on the L-shaped line with the FC, so you are working up to essentially running the new direction as he is approaching the cone. You were doing more of an oval shape which went well, so adding the L shape to your line will add challenge.
I think a bigger object to wrap would be useful too – taller cone or barrel. We will be moving to an actual jump wing soon too.
Tandems turns ar going well! Showing the tandem turn hand for a step or two before you started the turn was very helpful for him (like you did at approximately :20). On the other turns you showed the hand and started the turn the same time so he was more surprised by it. You can use the opposite arm to as a way to get him visually locked onto it and ready to turn, then do the turn after a couple of steps.
>>felt a little awkward on the lap turns>>
He was cracking me up on the way back to you for the lap turns – slooooowwwwlllllly coming back. LOL!! I think he just was not sure what you wanted. So as soon as he eats the start cookie, you can call him a little more urgently and have your magic cookie hand out and shaking a bit. That should help drive him back to you. And if he is still careful about it, you can toss the cookie straight back behind you when he gets to you (rather than do the turn) – this helps get the pups rocketing back more.
Both the lap and tandems are ready for you to go to the advanced level of adding the prop after the turn.
>>if I’m starting with Catch, is it ok if Venture comes to me after every treat throw? >>
Yes – if the Catch is a thrown reward, then he can move to get it and then he can come to you to start the next rep when you cue it.
>> In theory I should begin taking half a step away while he’s sitting and slowly build up distance while using catch. Then work his break (drive to me) and get it drive ahead. Am I understanding this all correctly?>>
Yes – and you can work the ‘break’ release concurrently so he learns the difference between the 2 words. Let me know how he does with the stays!
Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
>>I do not have a tunnel threadle verbal- guess I better decide!>>
Yes, I think you will find it a useful verbal!
>>Here is the sit. Sorry it is long I wanted you to see her frustration. I guess I went too long.>>
I don’t think it is too long of a session – she asks some valid questions that we ave run into before in sit stay training especially with small dogs with fast feet 🙂
The stool definitely helps isolate “stay in this spot”. Do you have something lower/less slippery so it is easier to throw the reward back to her? That will make it perfect!
Her questions here had to do with reward placement. When you were reaching in to reward her, there was a lot of foot movement happening as she was reaching for the food (and that would often include standing up right before the cookie reached her mouth, so standing up got rewarded a few of times too).
Reaching in to deliver the treats often gets the dog moving forward to get the treats, and delivering while they hold the sit without moving is SUPER hard. Yes, it can be done (adding a ‘don’t move, treat coming to you’ marker) and also slowly moving the treat in – but this also ends up with more punishment than desired because if she moves or stands, you would need to withdraw the treat. And I don’t what to do that, not worth the confusion when it is easy to train this without the hand-delivery.
My guess is she doesn’t even realize she is standing up/moving, or doesn’t realize that is it undesired because the cookie is arriving sometimes when she is moving into the stand. Then she got big mad and tried to figure out what you wanted by offering more.
Two other things to consider:
– handler proximity when delivering the cookies gets built in when we go back to reward the stay, so when you try to move away she wants to come with you (because she thinks she needs to be close to the cookie hand to get the cookie, based on prior experiences in the session). Note how much better it was when you stopped hand-delivering and moved away 🙂
– Also, when you stopped and looked at her with a cookie in your hand, that is the International shaping cue: “keep offering behavior”. So she was trying to figure out what you wanted and got The Big Madz when nothing worked.
So, using something that is easier to get on and off, you can really isolate the stay with no movement by moving away, (don’t hand-deliver a treat when she sits and then try to move away, as that might cause confusion), marking with your catch verbal, waiting a beat – then tossing the cookie (so the cookie toss hand is not moving before or during the marker.
You can also do this without cookies and use a toy with the tug-sit-release to tug version of the game! I use that a LOT and it really isolates the stay without movement while working in higher arousal too! Because it is higher arousal, we split the behavior into smaller pieces so she is successful.
She is off to a great start here – try it without the hand-delivery and let me know how it goes!
Tracy
Good morning!
It is like a Jimothy Sampler Platter! Yay! All the training is moving all really well 🙂
GOAT games are looking really good – he is at the size now where you will want to find/borrow/steal either another wobbly board to a bigger one, so he can get all feets on it without scrunching up – being scrunched probably feels off balance so he was less easily able to do it.
Definitely keep revisiting this game once or two a week until you start teeter training eventually 🙂 Wobble boards are a priority so that the pups continue to love them rather than decide they are scary when we come back to them after a few months off.
He was great on the plank! For such a young dude, he was very controlled in his movement and balance getting on it with all 4 feet (I mean, my 11 month old pup can’t do it with that much balance and control haha!)
He might need a wider plank to do some slow turning around – this one is so narrow that he will have to step off. So if you have another plank to put next to it, or a wider one, you can definitely start the turning around.
Toy races: Big progress! I LOVED the last rep here, it is exactly what we want: he looked ahead and grabbed it immediately. YAY! One thing I think helps if when you get him riled up with the toy swishing around in front of him, then throw it… then you are quiet when he starts moving. One ‘get it’ is fine but when you say it the 2nd or 3rd time, he looks at you. So keep riling him up and then be quiet til he gets to the toy.
The other option is to grab a training partner (hey Sarah!) and work it flyball style (there is no looking at the momma when driving ahead in flyball LOL!!): you are holding him, she gets him riled up with the toy right in front of him, then she starts to jog away dragging it. When she is about 6 feet away to start, let him go so he can race to it (and you can move to). If he is confident with that, your helper can be further away dragging the toy when you let go, and you can try to run too!
He is definitely smacking that hat now, lots of value! It looks like most of this was offering and he was great. Onwards to sending him to it as well as the parallel path game, both of which basically use the prop to simulate a jump 🙂 He looks ready!
Barrel game is looking great!! And the cat made an appearance to help proof the skill LOL!!
There was plenty of distance between you and the barrel… but be quiet LOL!! When you are really exuberant with your praise or talking too much, he loses his train of thought and that was when he forgot to go around the barrel (even when it was close to you).So during the shaping, you can say “yes” when you drop the cookie then be quiet (no conversing :)) and if he misses, don’t say anything (that will be very helpful to him, more helpful than talking to him). Then when you are taking a tug break, you can be very vocal and conversational 🙂
Then next step (which he is ready for) is for you to transition to standing up. Because he is so small, do you ave something low that you can sit on for a session or two? That will be a good bridge from sitting on the ground. Or if your knees won’t be angry, you can kneel.
Great job here!! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
>>Sounds like we’re in ARE mode for the long haul for sure!😂
This is true for all of us! ARE is a lifestyle 😁🤣😁
>>She’s actually quite good on her stopped contacts (teeter and dogwalk) even without a reward. I will use the Toppl and see if that helps. Should I carry it in my hand Or in my pocket? And should I use it at the start line?>>
If it is incredibly motviating to her, use it anywhere that you think she needs help because the environment is really hard. At home? Probably not 🙂 At class? Probably yes 🙂
And start with it in your hand at first, then if she does really well – move it to a pocket over the course of a few classes. Or if a new distraction arrives like new people or dogs? Put it back in your hand. The visual of the huge motivator will give her a focal point to help draw her away from the distractions. Then you can use it in the other games, like remote reinforcement.
>>And I should do a little preview training in the house and/or yard.>>
You probably don’t need to, plus you will want to keep the Topple novel and very exciting 🙂
Tracy
Good morning!
>>Pizzazz and I never did put the 3D Seq together perfectly. >>
No worries! It is a beast of a sequence, really hard at every step! The goal is to get the teamwork and connection and work through the hard stuff, even if it was in smaller pieces.
Using the leash was great, making it a fun part of each training session and now she is so much more used to dealing with the leash. Perfect!
And there were some big distractions here (sirens, trucks, train, etc) and she did well!
>>You’ll notice I keep making the same mistakes on #3.>>
That is one of the hardest spots on this course! The key is to be as far from jump 2 as possible when you cue it, so you can slide past the exit wing of 3 before she takes off for it – while Serp-ing her and looking back at the landing spot so she doesn’t miss the jump. HARD!!
You can isolate this at home and play with it. See how far from the 1-2 line you can be and still get 1 and 2. What was causing you trouble here was that you ran very close to 2, so ended up in her way on 3 (so either the turn was a little wide, or when you over-helped, she hit the wing).
The 4-5-6-7-8 line looked terrific and she knew exactly where to be to find 9.
>>Also #10. I was so clumsy.>>
You were not clumsy! The 9-10 line was the other really hard part (ok, 12 was super hard too LOL!). You got to 9 easily, but you were turning to face it and then trying to do a blind cross, so the re-connection on the blind ended up being late.
On jump 9, you might find it a lot easier to do a throwback rather an a blind, it will be also be earlier. To do a throwback: she is on your right hand as you indicate the jump and your back is to the jump (instead of facing it). Your right hand indicates the jump and you can point at landing (and looking back at landing also helps her commit). Then when you see her getting ready to take off, you can move forward and do a quick blind to your left side for 10.
You did it as a full front cross on last run and a post turn and it worked well!
12 to the end was the other hard spot – the good news was that she never took the off course tunnel, and that was the main part of the challenge! You got her to the backside -to help be able to move through it cleanly, run to the center of the bar as you cue the backside so you can get her to your right side more easily when she is coming to the takeoff spot. And if she doesn’t automatically take the jump on the backside, you can help her by looking behind you at the landing spot as you move through to 13. That will all make getting that 13-14 line a lot easier (it is a hard line!)
The more you play around with these complex sequences, the easier it will be to know exactly where to be on the line, and when she will commit.
>>I’ve been trying to follow your advice by struggling through my mistakes and keep going anyway. I’m seeing little stress sniffing even though there *was* some distraction when my field-sharing mates showed up.
Yes, there was some sniffing but for the most part, she was happy to keep going after a blooper – she did not deflate if you were not perfect 🙂 Being perfect is impossible, so keeping it fun is key!
>>Do you suggest another class like this for P & me to study and practice? >>
We have our connection class in January – just a couple of jumps and lots of skills classes! We will get back to the bigger classes when the weather improves in the rest of the country 🙂
>>My club has a trial at the end of this month. After our last trial fiasco, I thought it would be another year before we’d try another NFC class but I’m considering entering 2 NFC classes with a day between each class. If the first day doesn’t go well I’ll pull her from the second day. My plan was to use the tools you’ve given me to try a short sequence then a leash on, play tug, then leave engaged. Do you think this is something we should try?>>
I think the first NFC should be a ‘just like home’ run with a toy in the ring, in your hands – and playing in the ring (rather than after the leash is back on). Play before the leash comes off, take the leash off, maybe do a couple of tunnels and play. Play play play LOL!!
And you will want to know if she can do that at home before you try it in a trial – which means doing short tunnel sequences with a toy only and no cookies in your hands/pockets and not wearing the cookie pouch. Right now there are a lot of cookies and no toys in the training, and trying to go to a toy-only at a trial will be stressful unless you are sure she will love it.
And, you will want her to be able to do short easy toy-only runs around other people so she doesn’t scoot off when she sees people, like she did at the end here.Is it a UKI trial? There is soooo much more flexibility with NFC in UKI – you can use a helper in the ring, you can throw the toy, etc.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyAh yes, he could have sensed your emotions and been concerned about you. That is our boy Border Collies! Girl BCs are different:
Girl BC: MOM GET IT TOGETHER!!!
Boy BC: Mom OMG I love you so much do you need a hug what can I help with do you need a cup of tea or do you want to just snuggle up.So you can totally lean on Sid, he is there for you ❤️ He doesn’t care if he does agility right now, he wants to help you feel better.
T
Hi!
>>Thanks for the music analogy. >>
I figured you would totally get it LOL! I almost put in a crack about ‘don’t rush like a percussionist’ but I restrained myself LOL!!
>>I think I tend to rush the treat delivery because I’m thinking about rewarding quickly and before they get up, as opposed to letting the marker cue due its thing and predict the reward.>>
Totally relatable! I often do the same. And that is part of the reason why we start with the goofy games as framework for markers, to get the mechanics and markers in place so it is easier to train the ‘fancy stuff’ in the future 🙂
The barrel wrapping is good! That was the easiest part of the session. The extra food bowl was great! She was leaping a decent amount here and trash talking before the toy race, so I have an idea for you:
She wants to do The Thing so at the beginning, I think she has trouble controlling her arousal and was leaping up. As soon as she was doing the thing, she was fine! And I am not sure she always considers toy play a part of doing The Thing so sometimes you get the leaping in that transition, until she realizes that yes, you are doing The Thing (whatever The Thing is at the moment LOL!!)
I think she needs a bridge behavior to step up and step downing aorusal level in and out of the games, so she is coming into the session, getting to do a not-too-arousing Thing while you get ready, then can get released right into The Real Thing. Then to switch back to toy play, we bridge her out of the session.
So what is the bridge behavior? I believe you mentioned she is working on stationing or standing on a bed or cot? That might be a great bridge behavior! For example, she comes into the training room, and gets right onto her cot (doing The Thing which also happens to be incompatible with leaping up :)) Then you can get your toys/cookies/etc sorted and release her directly into the session (doing The Next Thing) and reward that for a couple of reps. Then use the bridge behavior as a ‘step down’ out of the session – when you have done the last rep for the moment, you can send her to her cot/mat/bed and toss a cookie to her. Then release her off of it to do a toy chase or a decompression. Then back to the cot to start the next reps.
Let me know if the bridge concept makes sense, we have been using it successfully for dogs for a while. Works well for humans too, like when I used a bridge behavior (scrolling on TikTok in my driveway) to reduce the arousal of a 3 hour drive home in bad weather before going into the house and being a civilized person LOL! Worked like a charm!!!
She totally started the parallel path beautifully! Because the prop is so small, she wasn’t really touching it (riding over it) and that is fine 🙂 The baby jump bar was great!
>>My “get its” were late.
I think they were good for this first session – they were really saying “YES IT IS THE WEIRD BAR THING” 😁🤣. She got it really easily! Any sooner for the first session might not have been as specific about the bar.
So on the next session, you can mark her intent to go to the jump with the get it. That will probably look like the moment she turns to look at the bar and takes the first step towards it. That should give you time to toss the treat so it lands refer she looks back at you.
>>Should I be using wingless uprights?
I think the wing uprights were great and she did really well!!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
>>I have to admit that this is one of the harder skills for me. >>
It is a really hard skill!! There are a bunch of different ways to get the behavior, so I am glad you abandoned the first attempt which he clearly thought was a down cue 🙂
He would shuffle back when you moved your hand towards him. But then he would still do the down 🙂Sitting in the chair took away some of the pressure from leaning over, and he was starting to make progress because his head was higher (which is more conducive to backing up and less conducive to the down :)) Yay!
You can split the behavior using the target even more:
Start him with all 4 feet on the mat, with a couple of cookies. Then lure his front feet only off the mat… then withdraw the lure. He is likely to step back onto the mat with a front foot or two and you can reward that. That can jumpstart the behavior even more by isolating that it is stepping back onto the mat. When he is doing that consistently, you can lure all 4 of his feet off, then reward for when he steps his back feet onto it.
Great job getting this behavior started! Keep me updated on how he does with it!
Tracy
