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Hi!
The set point is going well – I think she is a little unclear about the release from the stay, so you can clarify it for her: get the toy dragging, then give a verbal release, but don’t run: just keep moving forward at the same pace. We can add running at some point down the road when she powers out of the release a bit more.
For the proofing game: remember that this a training game, so live by the 2 Failure Rule. If there are 2 errors in the session (in a row or total for the session) then what you are asking is too difficult and you need to dial it back.
She had some questions on the reps that had no motion (she tended to take the tunnel on those, perhaps because you were leaning a bit as she was reading that as a tunnel cue?). She did well with the motion added but was confused about taking 2 tunnels in a row (more motion will help that too), But there were more than 2 failures here, so you will want to watch for that and break things down. And if there is a failure – don’t show any outward disappointment to her as that can be stressful.
Also, my challenge to you is to always line her up with hand cue and a cookie then take her collar, rather than reach for her and move her into position (especially if you are frustrated like at 1:54 and 2:02 and 2:30 where the moving by the collar was more corrective than it was gentle). She was avoiding being grabbed and then got really tentative about offering behavior – too many failures and the collar grabs like that were causing her to worry about this game.
Overall, she needs a bit more motion after the verbals here to help her out, especially with multiple tunnels in a row: and no punishment markers or collar grabs if she is incorrect, because that is causing her to ask a lot of questions.
For the tunnel exits – super nice commitment to the wings and tunnel! And great connection!
The timing of the left verbal and shoulder turn can be sooner (one stride before she enters the tunnel). The physical cue for the “go” was timely, so add the verbal in sooner too.
The right verbal at 3:07 and 3:20 and 3:46 and 4:04 were all timely, she was not yet in the tunnel, so match the physical cue to that by turning your shoulders to the wing before she goes in so she can see and hear the turn cue there.Nice work!!
TracyHi!
The shadow handling went well! Great job staying connected and not falling over the tunnel 🙂 She was terrific about staying on the line!
>, but toward the back side of the tunnel, she was almost cutting to the inside of the tunnel to my other side, but then would go back to the correct side. The blind crosses actually felt easier.>>
I think what was happening (and this is why the blinds felt easier) was that you were pretty far ahead, so she didn’t see the connection and which side to be on until she got to you on the other side of the tunnel. And that is probably why during the blinds, it was easier to get her on your inside arm. If you wait longer before running (like you did at :30) then it will be easier to keep her on your outside arm and she can stay on that side without cutting in 🙂
She is so funny that she still likes to be a Swiffer on the floor with her toy LOL! And her little puppy zoomie was adorable! The set point is going well – lots of power developing and her head is in a good position too. On the last rep, you started dragging the toy before you released her: that is the next step. You will want the toy to be dragging and about 10 feet past jump 2 before you release her. That means you will be outside, so if possible, video from the side so we can check out her form in slow motion 🙂
Great job here!
TracyHi!
>> Collar holding caused major confusion. >>
What was her question on it?
>>Tunnel exits caused too much running, no focus, being outside.
Yes, she might be feeling the joy of running and unable to think about tunneling right now.
>> She has foundations on several sports, we just need to get her sound.
Perfect! And those high impact elements of the different sports don’t need to be trained until the pups are in their teenage months.
Keep me posted!
TracyHi!
Things are going well with the set point! Since we are still in the ‘teaching the framework’ era, a couple of ideas about the mechanics:>> I am thinking I should have been dragging the toy longer before releasing him?
Yes – we want the toy a little further ahead when you release him and also don’t release until after the toy has moved for several feet – that way the drop of the toy or the movement of the toy doesn’t become the release. Dragging the toy for a few steps also allows him to focus ahead on the line before the release.
He is a tiny bit close to the first jump (his head was over the bar on a few reps) so you can move him back so his front toes are a hand’s width (tip-of-pinky-to-tip-of-thumb) away from the bar. His position at 1:30 might be good position but we will see what his liftoff looks like and can adjust as needed.
>>The bars are set at 8 and 12.
For now, leave them at 4 and 8 til the framework is just right – he was carrying his rear (rather than pushing from it) a tiny bit more than I would like him to do, so we can let things percolate at 8″ on bar 2 for a tiny bit longer as the moving target gets installed 🙂
Nice work here!!
TracyHi!
>.I like this a lot because I’m really struggling with chase vs. mark, and ‘get it’ is what usually pops out of my mouth (because of course a totally different word is what comes out when I can’t decide between 2 words). However, I use ‘get ’em’ (repeated 3x) for weaves. Are those words too similar?? Mochi has never had a problem with it, but she’s also special. 😉>>
It is entirely possible that ‘get it’ and ‘get em’ are too similar… and the context is not different enough because you might use a ‘get it’ toy throw on a line that could also be a line to a ‘get it’ weave entry. What if you gave the weaves a different cue? Or went with ‘chase’ for all toys out ahead?
>>We have been working on a separate take the toy command (‘strike’). Need to work this in higher arousal though, because he forgets pretty fast. And I forget to say it, of course. I need to practice my marker words without the dog, I think.>>
Yes, definite practice without him plus also, reminding yourself of all the words before each rep (like “dig dig dig strike”) will really help!
Looking at the video:
He did really well here!! He has good value for the tunnel but it is still nicely balanced with wing value. He was relying on physical cues here, which is fine of course 🙂 You were consistent with the verbals (I thnk there was one moment when you said ‘dig’ then tunnel, but you caught yourself :))
The next step is to emphasize the verbals even more: hold him by the collar, say the verbal 3 or 4 times… then let go. Then you can move to help him (eventually we can fade the movement). That will attach the verbals pretty quickly. If you move before or during the verbals, the verbals won’t be as strong because he will be cuing off the motion.
Great job here!!!
Tracy
Good morning!
>> But she seems to get the concept.
She totally did!!! Nailed it!!! The only suggestion here is to not use “go” in front of the tunnel or wrap verbal – Go means “run fast in big extension” and we don’t want her to do that here. If you were using it get give her permission to move, you can replace ‘go’ with a gentle collar hold, say the verbal a couple of times, then let go of the collar: that will give her permission to move.
>> I noted from rewatching your video that I’m using the opposite verbals. I guess it doesn’t matter as long as she knows what it means! >>
Correct! It doesn’t matter if you use the same verbals or not, as long as she knows what your verbals mean 🙂
>> Also, Saturday we had our club run thrus. I did a short lead out with the bar on the 2” mark, to a tunnel, with Paul on the other end with her tug. She was great. And this in a very exciting environment with people and dogs. She stayed right with us and worked a bit.>>
That is awesome!!!! Yay!!!!!!!!! I am not surprised though, she is a very focused pup that loves to work. Maybe you’ll do flyball with her too, when she is older?
Great job!
TracyPerfect! We’ve got plenty of time to get the teeter exactly where you like it. I saw a video of Stark’s teeter this morning: HOLY WOW it looks amazing, and he was worried about it when he was this age too. No worries!!!! Looking forward to video!
Tracy
Wowza! You are nailing it and she is responding brilliantly!
First rep – gorgeous and perfect in terms of connection and position near the wings but not blocking them. And you were patient, letting her get past you.
Second rep – also gorgeous! You can be a shade more connected at :22 when she exits the first wing: note how she drifts behind you a little, looking for more info. The rest was great!One thing to bug you about: don’t say “Go” for all the things. Save it for the straight line accelerations, and use your backside wrap verbals for these tight turns.
You are totally doing this correctly, keep going to the next challenge 🙂
Tracy
Good morning!
Super nice session here! On the one jump games at the beginning, you were emphasizing letting her turn herself away without a ton of help with hand motion. Yay! As you do that, you can stay a little closer to the wing – too much pull away is confusing for now. I am sure as she gets more experienced with this, you will be able to add distance easily. And, you can decelerate but try not to be totally stationary. That will really get this skill to be the super fancy international skill you want it to be 🙂>>For some reason they were much harder on my left.
There might be a couple of reasons for this:
On your left, your hand cue was not as clear especially with the speed from the tunnel added, so you need to show it to her more (and the winter coat made it harder too – why did MN decide it was winter again? LOL!) That is one of the pitfalls of using just one hand is that it can look exactly like the other cues if she can’t see the hand. So the decel plus showing the hand sooner and more clearly can help (you were adding value for coming to hand later in the video and that helped.
And, she is a very forward girlie on the lines (this is a VERY GOOD THING) so she was blasting out of the tunnels to find a line (also a good thing!) and you were trying not to spin, so she was not expecting the turn.
One other factor: even on one jump when she was going to the other side, she might be setting up to turn to her stronger side (she is a righty, yes? Or do I need more coffee? Probably.) So when adding speed in particular, start on her stronger turn side so it is easier for you both.
Great job here!!!
TracyHi!
>>I was wondering What cue do you use for the threadle? …and for the tandem turns. >>
My threadle wrap cue is “in in” which is different from my threadle slice cue, which is “close”. Tandem turn verbals will depend on the context, because tandems can be done on the front or back of a jump. On the front side, I will use the directional that matches the turn: left/right, or a wrap verbal. On the backside, I use the threadle wrap verbal because the dog is entering and exiting on the same wing, so there is a lot of collection.
>>. so that she feels good about reading me even when there is an error in my handling causing the issue I am trying to figure out
Yes! And staying in flow even if something goes wrong is great prep for trials, where there might be small bloopers but you will want to keep going.
On the videos:
The first 2 videos were spins (FC/BC combos) and not blinds. You can start those sooner, by decelerating then starting the rotation into the FC part of the spin before she gets to the wing, so the connection is already clear when she exits the wing.
This will be usedul when you do add the blinds (starting on the 2nd rep of video 3 and on video 4): the key to the tight blinds is the quickness of the reconnection, so you can start them sooner so you can reconnect before she exits the wing. Plus, because they are tight turns, a little decel into them will help too!
When you switched sides, the BCs were a little late on the first video (video 5) and at :25, she was not able to pick up the new side. Good reward! Your timing got better and better after that: earlier n the 3rd rep of video 5, even better on the video 6 especially at :48 – that was my favorite timing! You started the blind well before she got to the wing so the reconnection was earlier and that produced the best turn. YAY!!!! Your motion supports commitment to the wing on those blinds, so you can totally start early like that,
All of your connections on the exits of the FCs and spins after the 2nd wing looked lovely, so she found those lines really well on all the videos. Super!!!
Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
>>Goodness girl, flyball AND feedback in one weekend?! Hope you get some rest!>
Ha! Yes, turns out having 4 dogs running in flyball and a 5th dog in a warm up position makes for a very busy weekend LOL!
This is a really useful session!!! We can see the difference between handling the dog, and handling the obstacles. This will really help his jumping when bars are in – if you handle the dog, he can focus on his jumping and keep the bars up. If you handle the obstacles, he has to split that focus: part of his brain has to figure out what you are cuing with less info available, which leaves less bandwidth for the jumping mechanics. Here is what I mean by that:
When he was exiting the tunnel, you were handling the obstacle (the wing) but looking ahead at it and doing the handling when you were close to it (not necessarily when he was ready to see it). Instead, you can look at him more as he exits the tunnel, with your dog-side arm back to him so he can clearly see the connection (it is a commitment cue). That will also give you the timing of the decel, verbal and rotation for the cues, so he can get the mechanics organized in time to jump 🙂 You can see that you were looking ahead at the wing at :11, :18, :25 when he was on your right and :33, :41 (he didn’t go to the wing), :49, :56, 1:05 when he was on your left.
Now, compare to your connection to him as he exited the wing on the FC exits and the spin exits: that was perfect handling of the dog each and every time, so he knew exactly where to be each time. You were connected to him and gave very clear cues about which side of the tunnel to go to. Nailed it!!!
Let me know if that makes sense! His commitment is looking really strong so now we can focus in on the timing and turn cues being more connected.
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
Yes, this is a hard game for him, he is not a fan of the height. A couple of things to know before we make a plan:
– at least 3 of the Pizza 1.0s were afraid of the teeter at this stage as well (maybe more, I didn’t follow what was going on with the other 2 that do agility and #6 only does flyball). It is possible that some of the 2.0s are also having a struggle. So there is a genetic component that we will be training around. They all turned out to have amazing teeters, just needed some patience 🙂 and no pressure!
– I have a lot of experience training through teeter concerns: you might not know that my Export was the most terrified-of-the-teeter dog that I have ever seen. He would literally flee the area if he even saw a teeter. His teeter turned out GREAT and I learned a whole lot about how to train teeters with dogs who are concerned – so trust the process we have developed and he will learn to love love love it like Export did, as well as siblings Elektra, Stark, and Amore.
>>. I assume we don’t want them to think they can bail off the side?>>
This is not a concern – if the dog is worried for whatever reason, they are welcome to bail. I would rather have the dog understand how to get off an obstacle that feels unsafe than pressure them to stay on it. So – no pressure to stay on it and in fact one of the goals is to get him off it before he even wants to get off it.
>>2. Having them turnaround and go the other way – isn’t that teaching them something we don’t want them to do if they start to get worried while it tips?>>
You are thinking too far ahead on this 🙂 By the time we add tip, the dogs love driving to the end. If the dog is worried and needs to get off? Then by all means, they can jump off. That also tells us that we are pressuring the dog way too much and they are not ready for the tip. Our goal is confidence! And don’t let anyone pressure you into putting criteria on it until you have confidence. And turning around on a plank also teaches a lot of body awareness, so I teach it on the teeter and dog walk (along with how to safely jump off).
>>3. Is it bad to lure and to lure by putting the treats on the board? I found this worked and he needed less as he progressed.>>
TOTALLY not a bad thing! The way to use the food here (especially because he doesn’t totally love food) is to do incredibly short sessions (like 1 rep then be finished) with a big chunk of the highest value food (like cream cheese or rotisserie chicken).
When training mountain climbers, I put the massive food reward on the board and do exactly one rep if the dog has shown any concern at all. *** THIS WILL BE HARD FOR YOU TO LIMIT TO ONE REP BUT IT IS CRITICAL *** (yes I am yelling hahaha). The goal is to make it so freaking exciting that he wants to run on the teeter more than anything! I remember with Elektra, I would traipse out to the teeter in my pajamas with her entire breakfast of raw meat: do one rep of mountain climbing and she would get her whole meal on the board. One rep!
>>4. Would it be better to start with a lower teeter based on how hard this is for him?>>
You can totally lower it to half height but all of the other things apply – one rep of incredibly high value food and no pressure.
>>I used tugging in between sessions as a method to decompress.>
That was great! And you can use a tug toy for the other games involving the teeter (it is really hard to use on the mountain climbers but you can totally use it between reps!
>> I didn’t get him quite to the end but I did use a “jackpot” cream cheese when he got close enough.>>
Rather than do multiple treats and then the cream cheese: just use the one single chunk of cream cheese then be finished with the session until the next day. Eventually the massive reward will be at the end of the board but it does not need to start there.
And remember that we are not concerned with an end position yet (and it will ultimately be a 4on because he is too small for a fast 2o2o).
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>but I have nothing when I get to class so I took him to the building to work stays
The class situation is a lot more challenging, so you can work much simpler stays. Go back to super short stays that get tons of reinforcement and he will begin to transfer his understanding to the class setting.
Be really certain that the motion and the release word are separate – the release was coming right after the motion here, so it is entirely possible that he thinks the release is the motion (and not the verbal). So either be moving the whole time (rather than release as soon as you move) or lead out, and still, release, he moves, then you move.
Looking at the videos: his commitment looked strong for sure! So we can look at timing.
Video 1:
Good timing and connection on the blind (right turn) so he had a good turn there. On this video and the next ones as well, do the blind earlier enough to get the good turn and give you time to decelerate into the wrap for the next jump to tight that up.Video 2: This was the left turn blind: The blind cues here started after he took off so he couldn’t get the side change (good reward there!)
Video 3:
On this one, the blind started at takeoff (he was lifting off when you started it) so he could not turn until after landing and was wide. So I don’t think it was a turning issue for him, it was more of a timing issue – to turn tight, he needs to see the blind cross info a lot sooner.Ideally, when he lands from the jump after the tunnel , you cue the middle jump and start the blind so you are finished before he has to make a takeoff decision.
>>Also something I noticed when I use a verbal he talks back to me almost every time >>
Sometimes dogs vocalize when things are exciting, and sometimes they vocalize when they are frustrated. There were not that many vocalizations on these videos, but we did hear some when the timing was late or you were disconnected.
>> there have been times that if I ask for a dig, dig or check, check he will spin in front of the jump and bark if I am to early with the verbal.>>
That is probably a frustration bark. Do you have video? My guess is that is doesn’t have anything to do with the verbal, but it is more like there is a disconnection or you didn’t transition into the turn by decelerating before you rotate. Post video if you have it and we can figure it out 🙂
Nice work here!Tracy
Good morning!
These went well! Turning away like this is NOT a natural behavior for the dogs (they like to turn towards us 😁 ) but she was great!
>I’m guessing you’ll tell me to keep my hands and arms much lower.>>
There were maybe a couple of spots where your hands were a little high, like at the beginning of video 1 and a couple of times when she was on your left… but the vast majority of the reps had low hands and clear connection! Yay!
Tandems video 1 – things started off well but I think it was harder when you were moving with her. It really helped when you added the stay after :59 – that looked great!!! And it all looked definitely better when your hands are lower – think of it as showing her your hands but look back and letting her see them. The backside balance reps went well, and I loved your connection when you were adding the speed from the tunnel – it was a great camera angle and your cues were really clear.
>>I blame it on lack of sleep working two 14+ hour nights in a row…>>
Yikes! Those are long nights!!! Yes, your brain was probably tired. But these looked good, your brain was probably also too tired to tell you that it was going well! You didn’t look discombobulated. 🙂
Getting closer to the wing helped on the 2nd video and you were really strong with connection and low hands. And you easily showed her the difference between the threadle wrap and the backside pushes. Yay!!!! She did give a couple of her “what the heck is this?” looks like she sometimes does when she learns new handling, but then on the next session she is always fast and happy with it LOL!
So since these are going so well… time to choose a verbal! I scrolled up but I don’t think we talked about it yet: for the tandem turns, the verbal will depend on if it is the front side of the jump and she turns away (that can be the left/right or wrap directional) or if it is the backside of the jump. A tandem turn can be used on the front or back of the jump.
If it being used on the backside of a jump, then it is a threadle wrap so uses the same verbal. My threadle wrap verbal is “in in in” which is different from my threadle slice verbal (which is ‘close’).
When the verbal gets added, we will then work on getting her to be really independent turning herself away on the threadle wraps, so you won’t have to help as much with arm cues.
You did well with the tight blinds! Tight blinds are weird because we have to turn away from the dog while decelerating, and our feet want to turn towards the dog in that moment! You did well and your connection was really strong throughout, so she could read it easily. You only had one uncle connection moment, at 1:32, so she ended up on the other side of you and went to the tunnel. Compare to 2:15 where you were super clear and she nailed it 🙂
>>I mean she clearly had no energy but she still gave me some effort while I struggled through trying to figure out my right and left>>
Interestingly, she was not into it at the beginning but got faster and faster towards the end. Maybe the horses were cheering her on? LOL!!! But getting faster even when she did not have a ton of energy means she was finding it easy to read and motivating to do. Super!!!! And taking little breaks probably helped too. That was good to her you figure it out – either you had it figured out and there were no bloopers, or you were fantastic about continuing when there was a small blooper LOL!!
Great job here!!!
Tracy
Hi! I am glad the 5.5 distance went well!!
>> I noticed that Mason is starting to go into a crouching vulture position as I lead out. Back when my 15 yr old was a young dog, some trainers thought this was very bad, but others didn’t seem concerned about it. What is your opinion? Should I try to get Mason to sit straight up in front of a jump or not worry about it?>>
It is *not* very bad, and while ideally he would sit up straighter…. it is probably not even something he realizes he is doing so it is SUPER important not to add pressure by trying to get him to sit up straight. I see a ton of people doing that, it stresses the dog out, and then dog ends up crouching again. So – if he starts to lean more than we want on the start line, we can go to a stand-stay or a down-stay, both of which might be a better choice than the sit stay for him.
We will see how it develops!
Tracy
