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Hi!
>I have a follow up question about this game/setup. I’ve seen videos online of some trainers in Europe training with off course jumps near the entrances of tunnels and the weave poles that are maybe one step off the dog’s line. >
Yes, that is a super popular trend right now in course design in Europe and UKI here in North America.
>It’s almost as if they need a “pass” cue. >
They are using verbals but not a pass or bypass cue: usually it is obstacle names or naming the line (like GO!). There are some layering verbal cues too. The pass or bypass cue has fallen to the wayside because the dogs are just staying on their lines, or getting turn cues/obstacle names for discriminations.
> I am wondering for this game, when it’s time to take the tunnel, should they be going around the wing to take the tunnel or just go straight into the tunnel without going around the wing? >
It depends on where you set her up: If she is on an angle and facing the tunnel entry? Then she can go directly to the tunnel. If she is lined up facing the wing? Then she can layer the wing and go to the tunnel. So be super precise about how you set her up and where you hold her, while she is hearing the verbals. I like to be sure the pups can layer the wing because it is a skill they will need (layering jumps to get to the tunnel).
>I know for most of the agility I’ll be doing I may not need training to that level even in local UKI trials but I like to think about my training criteria.>
You will definitely need layering skills, even in Novice AKC! It is popping up everywhere 🙂 Plus it is FUN to train 🙂
let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
This session was lovely!! Soooooo much to be pleased with! And it was a busy environment – lot of people and noise, but she was completely focused and engaged. You did a great job with your connection so she was able to find each line and her turns were lovely. YAY!!! I could not really hear if you were using your wrap verbals, so if you were not – you can totally add them in now. You can also add a toy in, to get a little more excitement so she can continue to process her arousal regulation (she did great here). For example, you can tug before a rep, reward with a tug, trade for treats.
>The first rep she wiped out coming out of the tunnel, a prime example of her uncoordinated teenager-ness.>
Yes, poor girlie!! The tunnel might have had a little too much curve in it for the first run – she wiped out in the curve. You can keep it very gently curved for now so she doesn’t splat herself 🙂
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
She did really well in class – fun sequences! And the triple didn’t seem to be an issue.
She was a super good girl getting the tight turn away from the tunnel after 3 tunnels in a row!>I had treats in my pockets, but didn’t use them setting up or until the end of my planned mini sequences. >
You totally can bring the food out mid-course for challenging moments, such as the tight turn when she did not go off course to the tunnel. That would have been a great surprise-you-get- treats moment! Rewarding only at the end or at the leash risks shifting the balance to the end and to the leash 🙂 so yes, do that sometimes… but also have plenty of reward out on course with you for the excellent moments mid-course 🙂
>Running Snooker for realzies is tempting if I can devise a good course, but of course the nice thing about running Snkr NFC is not risking getting whistled off after 2 jumps. >
Yes, good point about being whistled off – she is unlikely to drop a bar, so if she ends up off course you can mark happy hour time and run out to the reward. Or run it NFC is she can have a lot of flow – the decision can be made when you see the course design.
> Actually, if I’m not going to carry the toy as a marker that the reward is coming later, should I skip having someone toss the empty toy before heading to the reward box and instead just do the mini sequence and cue “happy hour” to run to the box sans tossed toy?>
I think at this point, you can fade the bridge of the thrown empty toy and see what she thinks. Use your verbal marker only. If she thinks it is STUPID she will let us know (she is good at sharing her opinions :)) and then you can go back to the bridge if needed.
Have fun! Keep me posted about the weekend!
Tracy
Good morning! Thanks for the videos, he was a really good boy here!!
>This is working the stay and not as much on engagement.>
You can work on both at the same time – we cannot separate engagement out from anything we do 🙂
One thing I notice here in both videos is that there are frisbees… but no play. He gets released to retrieve the frisbee after a stay, but you don’t actually play: you are moving back to start again. And note how he doesn’t want to bring it back because you take it away and put him back to work – in particular, being stationary to do another stay. So he is remaining further and further away from you. He brings it back when you present another frisbee but you don’t actually play, so he is going to stop bringing it back pretty soon even when you show another frisbee 🙂 Dogs are very good at predicting!
So definitely add in play that lasts twice as long as the stay: when he is released to get the frisbee, ask him to bring it back and then tug tug tug praise party! Then throw it 🙂 Then tug more! Then maybe trade it and do another rep. The amount of play should greatly outweigh the amount of work, especially on a behavior like a stay. That will also give him a lot of opportunity to move which is very reinforcing too.
>
I am working on the jumping on Momma! 😉 >Those moments where he pummels you are frustration behaviors – you are using a lot of control but there is minimal outlet for play and fun (stays are really not that much fun LOL!) so the frustration is bubbling over. That will go away when you add in a lot of play!
>I try to change up my duration to keep him guessing. I also didn’t need to ask for the down since he automatically does it because I have always asked for it at home and there are less distractions.>
Changing things up is really good! Also be sure to change your position relative to the jump, so you are not next to the wing when you release. Plus, you will need to fade the frisbee from the stay and see if he can do stays without a frisbee there – and then throw it as the reward after the behavior (right now, when it is on the ground, it is actually the cue for the stay). And yes, cue the behavior because that will be useful in more challenging environments.
>In this video he does the butt up in the air, I wait long enough and he puts it down but then I try to move and he does creep so I decided to to tell him to get it so he didn’t continue to fail but I am not sure that is what I should have done. I don’t know if he creeped because I stopped and then I moved and he might not be ready for that. He seems to be more solid when I stand still and release or continue to walk and release vs stopping and then moving again.>
Yes that looked a little confusing – he was not sure if you were releasing or not. So after he puts his butt back on the ground (good boy!) you can walk forward confidently again, then stop, then release. You were kinda moving but not moving a lot, so he was not sure what was happening next.
>In the 2nd video you will see he was trying to get the frisbees so I asked him for a hand touch and after the hand touch I moved them to my other hand and he thought I was going to throw them so he took off over the jump and waited. >
Yes, he didn’t want what you tossed ahead of the jump because it is not a reward (not associated with play in this context). The other frisbees in your hand could potentially be thrown, which is much more rewarding – plus confusing to throw one and have 2 others in the hand. So any placed reward should probably be the only one visible for now, so he can direct his focus to it. Then be sure to play with that toy, to build up its value (rather than take it away and reset for the next rep).
>We do play frisbee in the backyard and after I threw it I thought I probably shouldn’t have since we are working on him not leaving me for a jump unless I ask. Other than that he did great.>
Well yes, there was confusion on that rep… but there was also play. And play is important! Frisbees often elicit the behavior of running out to wait for them to be thrown, so you might consider using toys that don’t elicit that response when you are holding them. Will he play with a tug toy? Those are also easier to play with between each rep.
>He is always better at home but you will get to see him in action at Fleischmann field in a little over a week!>
Awesome!! Bring a big variety of toys (not just frisbees) and we will keep building on this! See you soon!!
Tracy
Good morning! I am excited to see you in June – next month! (How is it May already??)
The video was funny! You got some great noises from Ronin and I think maybe even some noise from Reacher? You can reward grunting or weird breathing LOL He was definitely excited just not as free with his singing as his brother was LOL!!
I think Ronin was a good helper because Reacher was definitely processing the whole “hey, why did he get the cookies?” thing. He might have thought it was a bit unfair that Ronin got the cookies – which can be great for getting a big reaction which can be shaped into a trick (which is what we want :))
Here is a video of the big response LOL :
Reacher would be the money on the right getting the cucumber 🙂 which is the equivalent of praise in this case as opposed to the deliciousness that Ronin is getting.You can try stuff that might set them off like saying whatever you would say if someone came to the door (Hi! Or Be right there! for example). Keep playing with it – it might take a bit to percolate but them once he has it, he will love doing it!
>We haven’t done much agility in the past 2 weeks due to our weekly class being cancelled twice in a row for odd reasons, but do have a 1/2 day seminar this Friday and trial on Saturday (entered only two runs). If I get some agility practice video from tonight I’ll share it!>
A little break is good! Have fun at the seminar tomorrow – is it with Stefanie Theis? I hear good things about her seminar!! And keep me posted for the weekend.
Have fun!
TracyHi!
The runs here look excellent!!!
> until I slipped forward and fell straight down during a fun tunnellers run. lol I have a huge bruise on my hip as I started to roll so I didn’t land on my face.>
Oh no! Ouch! I am glad you were not seriously injured!!!
>Callan earned a Q and first place for both his Standard and Jumpers. >
Lovely! How fun!!! There is a standard course on the video that looked great!
>His other Jumpers was good but a bar down due to my late handling. >
Yes, I believe that is the run you put on the video and you were late at :20. You can trust his commitment and cue the turn as he exits the previous jump.
>We also did a fun run in the morning which went well.>
Super!! What a great opportunity!
>He was very sticky on his dogwalk and stopped with his feet on the ramp, not the ground. Needs more work.>
Was he originally trained with a target? You can re-visit the targeting as you run the sequences to help refresh driving directly into position. And be sure not to release early – that is something that might cause him to get sticky on the down ramp.
>He also is sometimes not running down his a frame but jumping over the contact, so we will work on that.>Interesting! He might need to learning to jump the apex more, to stride through the yellow better?
> His weaving was off, took a second attempt, and off again in class, not wanting to turn left tightly, so I had him looked at today and his lower spine and hind end are very tight so he had an adjustment and laser. >
Poor little guy! I did think his weave looked a little crunched up on the video so I am glad you took him to get checked out. That might also be why he was shorter on the a-frame striding too!
>We are taking a week off and will see the vet for more laser on Monday. Who knows how he strained or jammed himself up. Could be playing too roughly with my Malinois Tessa. >
Could totally be this! Or running around like mad at home, or slipping on course, could be anything.
> I will continue to strengthen his core and keep stretching as we do work out every morning.>
Hold off on stretching til the vet gets a good look – we don’t want to stretch if something hurts.
>I am feeling we are becoming a team!>
I agree! The runs are looking lovely so it is not a matter of getting him into more trips so he can get more experience. Great job!
TracyYes, I think she was pumped up and also really close to the wing, so she defaulted to the down. No problem at all!
Tracy
Hi!
This went really well and I agree that the RCs are getting more consistent and smooth! Super!>I think I was still mostly late in this video. >
She was reading them well but I think what might have made them feel a little late was that you can be showing the RC line before she even exits the tunnel, so your very first step is towards the center of the bar. That way you will be closer to her and running more towards the enter of the bar, rather than cutting behind herclsoer to the tunnel which puts you a little further behind.
So it is a subtle tweak – if you were really late, she would not be reading the RCs at all 🙂
>I see that Ellie has some questions, even on the “Go” and balance “Left” reps. >
I think on the Go lines you were close to the jump on the first rep so she might have been anticipating a RC? She definitely looked to her right at :05. You can be a little further from the jump on the straight or left turns (non-res) here. She had no questions when you revisited it later in the session.
>The last rep was our best one and I’m curious to know if you think this one was on time.>
I think the last 2 reps were really good (:29 and :34) and I also liked the last rep the best. Yay! On that one, you were driving forward to the enter of the bar sooner and she read it beautifully!
Great job :)
Tracy
Hi!
He was a really good boy here!! Yes – it was easier for him on when he was on your right side, mainly because you moved up the RC line sooner. As he exits the wing wrap, you were already moving up the RC line and he was great!On the left side reps, you waited longer to show him the RC line, which meant he didn’t see the RC info til he was taking off for the RC jump. He was really trying to sort it out though, good boy!!
So to get the left side reps, you can run more 🙂 More motion heading to the center of the bar should get it really nicely because it shows him the info sooner. Run the same line like you did pn the first rep and I know he will read it well 🙂 If you push him off the jump, it just means that you cut in towards him too early – the trick is running directly to the center of the bar so he passes you but sees that pressure line.
Nice work here!!
TracyGood morning! Thanks for the update!
>Speedway was used for training. I actually chose to work on her start line. It seemed appropriate, since we’d been working on it during the week, even during some play sessions. She was solid, staying quite awhile until I said, “break!”, and showed her tug, which she hit hard and tugged hard. I did a couple lefts and rights around a few barrels, then tug. It went well. Two back to back classes of “pole position”. >
Great! Sounds like it went really well!! I am happy she was tugging in the ring too!
>By the time “slingshot” ( tunnels added, with a gamble set up)came, she did fine the first run, then started getting oddly stressed. >
Was she stressed before she knew that Paul and Chitlin were out there? She might have been mentally tired, or possibly picking up something in the environment?
>At that point, Paul had just run Chitlin and I know she was distracted by seeing him walk her back to the car. She ran to the fence where he was walking around. I finally yelled at him to stand still!! Grrrr… he should know better. It went down hill from there. Yes, lack of experience to hand such a complex situation. We were done for the day. No video.>
Yeah, that sounds like a super hard distraction, plus it was the end of the day where she was probably a little mentally tired too. She is used to Paul being around at home… can you set up a simple sequence and have Paul walking around with Chitlin or one of the other dogs?
>This past Sunday was a new, indoor location. A nice, one ring, training center. We crated inside. I walked her around, did a bit of heeling, some tricks, some on lead stays, lots of treats. She was cool. But not interested in any of the tugs.>
Not wanting to tug is one of her signs that she is processing the environment, That is when you can do a few pattern games, because it really invites their brains to assess and process the environment in a way different than other behaviors do.
>More distracted by people and stuff by the gating, but once we got going, did fine. >
So she was more distracted by the people etc on the way into the ring? You can set up a ready set go type of start where you stick with her, maybe hold her collar, get her pumped up and then run run run! Rear crosses will be your friend here 🙂
>My leg was killing me 😞 so I was really behind. >
Sorry about your leg, that stinks!!
>I yelled wait!, she did, 2o2o. Bless her little heart. >
Yay!!! All of the work you have done paid off right there!
>I told her jump, she did, came to the wall jump, and said, WTF! A second command and she took it.>
Ha! She probably needed to see what the heck it was.
> It wasn’t a brilliant run, but we both ended on a happy note. Once again, when she was halfway through the course, she settled, and seemed to understand her job. >
She was definitely concerned at the beginning of the course and front of the ring then did really well when you got further from it and really started moving. At the beginning, you can see her expressing that concern there with some fawning behavior when she was standing up on you – at the start line then at one of the early jumps. One goal is that rather than trying to work the course and stop to get her to take a jump if she passes it… just keep going and get her moving so she can settle in faster and faster each time. That way her experiences will be all about fast and fun at the beginning of the course, just like the middle and end! She was great about taking the wall jump at the end too 🙂
>Oh, I opted to put a collar on. Maybe a psychological connection? Who knows. But I’m glad I did because I got in the ring and the timer was messed up. I did not make her stay very long before releasing her. A small stay was good.>
It is possible the collar being on is a context cue that reward is available, so she was more relaxed! She was happier to have you hold it while she was sitting during that delay at the start – she didn’t love it as much when she was standing, so you can totally ask for the line up and sit then hold the collar.
Great job here!! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! I agree – these are looking really strong! Yay!
Find The Jump – super nice, he is looking ahead really well! You being ahead and running was harder (he was surprised on the first rep but then adjusted his striding beautifully on the next reps.
>Next time, I should move the jump farther from the tunnel, right?>
He seemed to have no questions about finding his line so yes, you can add distance and you can also move to the rear cross concept transfer game which uses this setup 🙂
>I think he had a lot of fun with this one. >
Yes! He liked the running 🙂 He was not as big of a fan when you were decelerated more – so you can move closer to the line on this game (so there is more motion) and also when you reward him, you can turn and run away so he chases you for it. That will be more exciting than when you face him to deliver the reward – he likes that, but he will probably like chasing you more which will help make decel more exciting.
He found his lines really well here with very few questions (nice connection and lines of motion from you to help that!) He had one question at :18 – on that spot, you pointed ahead which broke connection so he followed the line of your shoulders. Compare to the super clear connection at :38 where he had no questions. Excellent adjustment to help him out!
Looking at the wraps:
>I’m thinking the issues we had at the end are more related to lack of brain power at this time of the day versus a lack of learning. >
Entirely possible! Plus this is a very ‘thinly’ game without a lot of handler motion. There was steam coming out of his ears figuring it out, god boy!!
I think having him chase you for the reward will be helpful – when you backed up fast, he really perked up! So if you turn and run, he will love it even more 🙂
>Oddly enough, he did the wrapping better than the tunnel, as you can see.>
I think that the tunnel is a little harder on this game because the wing is closer.
If he fails, help him with motion after the 1st error – or maybe the 2nd error. But don’t let him go past 2 errors total because when you were telling him he was wrong, he was checking out. That is where you can see him get lackluster but it was mainly because he didn’t know what you wanted and was starting to give up. When you helped a bit with moving, he perked right up!
Be careful not to give him a reward marker to early, because that can pull him off the tunnel like at 1:10 where he started to go in and you started to say “yes” and present the reward… which pulled him right off the tunnel 🙂
That also answers your question about him potentially being a tunnel sucker – if he was over-excited by the tunnels, we would see it here. He did well!
>I’ll give this one a shot in the morning next time, but I still wanted feedback on my form and what I can do better the next time I set this up.>
Yes, try it at a more active time of day for him and see how he does. Running away with the reward to get him to chase you is something to add, and not letting him have more than one or two failures without helping will also be good for keeping him enthusiastic.
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
Really strong session here: you saw her questions and helped her be successful.
The toy on the ground next to the grid was hard on the first rep then having to slow down to coordinate herself was hard on the next reps! All 4 jumps too hard as she told you by not taking them – probably visually daunting and she didn’t quite know how to handle it.Great job breaking it down (forward chaining was fine :)) Her stay is fantastic and that is really helpful! You basically helped her coordinate herself because this grid is not about speed – she actually has to slow down a bit. Slowing down is hard compared to the fun of going fast 🙂 She figured it out really fast and then the rest of the session was lovely.
By the time you got her back to 4 jumps, I think she looked fantastic! You got just a couple of strong reps, then you ended the session. SUPER!!!
>Makes sense that she was having such a hard time committing to jumps with me in motion when she struggled with me even standing still. Next time I’ll change up the angles a little bit. I can’t remember, is this one we can use the moving reward target for?>
Since this was challenging, no need to change the angles yet – but definitely back chain with the moving target (too hard to forward chain the moving target :)) You can be slowly dragging it to add challenge of coordinating herself with you moving. And backchaining will help her sort it out like sh did here. Then you can add the angles. But I think prioritizing your motion (just walking to start) will be the best bet for the next session.
Great job!
TracyHi!
>We haven’t really trained in almost 2 weeks. I haven’t really been feeling it.>
That is totally normal – sometimes we just need to hang out and do nothing 🙂 It helps refresh the joy in training without getting burned out 🙂
> We are really a hot mess express and on the bus of struggle right now. I figured taking a break wouldn’t hurt. I think I need to work on some random tricks and shaping things just to get our team work together and her brain back from somewhere in outer space.>
Tell me more about what the struggles are, or post a blooper video 🙂 We can sort it out – it is totally normal to run into questions from the pups that we have to sort out instead of playing the games. Your videos all look great so you can tell me more about the struggles 🙂
>I’ve been hesitant working with toys around agility lately as I really need to work on her return to hand and drop a little more, especially with a single toy. Our two toy game is pretty strong, but we just need to grow the game more.>
You can think of it as working 2 tracks: if you want to play an agility game, you can bring 2 toys or trade one toy for treats if she likes that.
Or, separately, work the 1 toy retrieve game. One thing that I find really helpful with one toy is to let the pup have it freely for 5 to 10 seconds or so… then when she bring it back, BIG PLAY 🙂 Then let her have it on her own again. Then she brings it back, gives it back… and we reward that by giving it to her again. The reason behind this is that we tend to get a retrieve and take the toy away pretty quickly so we can do the next rep… which is actually a punisher to the dog and results in the dogs bringing it back less 🙂>Working outside has also been a little harder since everything has thawed, so we’ve been working on some remedial engagement skills.>
Yes, being outside is a different party! LOL!! Working silly games and engagement is perfect 🙂
Keep me posted!
Tracy
