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Hi!
I am fully recovered from the Open, sort of LOL!
You and Miss Mochi are totally ready for the next class! The games don’t need to be perfect, they just need to be pretty good -and Mochi is closer to perfect! I am thinking the winter hybrid class will have 2 tracks in it: puppies/teenagers, and adult dogs. That will be doubly fun for the puppy people, because you can play the young dog games and then you’ll also have the adult dog version of it for when she is older.
>>If you do decide to have another class, a hybrid of sorts, or something else, how will I communicate with you to ask if we’re ready for that class? The forum will be closed.<< You'll get an email. I was hoping to have the outline finished already but alas, crazy things keep cropping up. I hope to have it done and posted by next week. Thanks! Tracy
Good morning!
Great job in class last night – I am glad you got home in time!
>I have been working on/planning on the following marker cues but I have some questions:
Questions: – I’m thinking of combining toss and get it into a cue to go get the toy/treat. My thoughts are I often default to saying “get it”, but is it important to distinguish between toy & treat w/the marker? >>I have personally not found that the dogs have questions about using ‘get it’ for both the toy and treat. The context makes it very clear to them plus I would never toss both and ask them to figure out which one based on the marker. I mean, I’m sure it can be done, I just don’t see the reason to do it as it sets up too much failure potential).
And it is far too easy for all of us to accidentally default to ‘get it’ on both things like you mentioned, so we might as well trust the pups’ ability to read context and not worry about separate cues.
If we see questions or frustration from Lift, we can change it and add another marker but I doubt she will get mad at you about it 🙂
>>>>And should get it be more about driving ahead as opposed to the cue I will use with the pattern game or the backing up when I toss the treat between their legs? (Right now that would be a toss cue for me which is maybe a bit more thoughtful than a run and get it for the toy).>>
If ‘toss’ is a lower energy delivery, to the side… and you can remember it… then yes, you can totally use it to differentiate between that and get it. I use get it for both the driving ahead and the pattern game food tosses, because the dogs read the context and my movement so easily. I personally don’t ‘test’ the markers that much, but if I say “get it” the dogs will stop looking at me and start looking for where I have thrown the ‘thing’.
>>– I picked “Yes” for the come get the treat from my hand since that is what I tend to default to say when I want the dog to come to me to get a reward out of my hand. However there is the tendency to use Yes when I”m excited that they did something (like hit a weave pole entry) and that is a situation where I don’t want them to break off what they are doing and come to me for a treat. >>Entirely relatable and when Hot Sauce and CB were baby dogs, I would pull them off things ALL THE TIME by saying “yes”. Oops! So I cleaned up my markers, learned to stop yelling “YES!” 🙂 and now the marker on course is the next cue.
>>So I”m thinking about switching to snacks. But if I do that, does “yes” have a specific meaning or is it just a generic encouragement workd?>
Yes just gets used so much that I think it becomes background noise with different meanings in different contexts. I am standing in my kitchen with all of my dogs right now, and I yelled “yes!” Like I would for a great weave entry… they didn’t even look at me. Then I said it “yessssss” like I do when shaping something and going to give a cookie… they all got up and walked over, looking at me LOL! Dogs are brilliant.
>>– And thinking ahead to directionals, I clearly need something other than “Left” given her name. Is Links (German for Left) too close to Lift? Do I need something else for left? Haw or Port maybe?>>I think any Li or Le might be too similar. Haw or Port are good. What about ‘soft’?
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! This is looking really good!!
The next step will be about preparing for the Turn And Burn game 🙂 So the first question is: what would you like to use for her to wrap around in that game – a big barrel? Giant cone? Whatever you choose, you can do a session with the 2 bowls and the object. No need to move the bowls further back, instead you can just do a value building session or two on the barrel or cone or whatever you choose.
Then if that goes well (and I am sure it will!) you can move to the turn and burn game we added last night 🙂 If she needs help getting started, you can put a bowl down on the exit line. I bet she will not need help though and will jump into offering it 🙂
Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
Very nice job on the sequences here! She looked great, she was focusing on her lines beautifully, and was FAST! Love it!!
My only suggestion is to try a ‘jump’ verbal instead of ‘go’ for the jumps, because go means straight and we want to keep that for those big straight lines.
Great connection here and she seemed to have no question about where to go. Super!!
>>I stopped before she lost interest >>
Perfect!!!
>> i think I’m going to have to practise some longer sequences at some stage.
Yes, you can throw in some longer sequences (I have more coming that are longer and will be posted next Monday). And also, you can work on the remote reinforcement with very short sequences, so she learns to run without the reward in your hand or pocket. Start it on the flat and then start to add some jumps and short fun sequences.
Great job here!
TracyHi!
These are looking good overall! I think they might be posted in reverse order 🙂
>>Interestingly, when he got rewarded by a thrown toy, toy at end lost its value.>>
A “live” (moving) toy is more exciting than a “dead” (placed) toy 🙂 so you can mix in more driving to the placed toy.
I think the first video here was the last sequence (with the rear crosses): The toy placed on the line indicated the straight line, so when you were late on the RC (:46 and 1:52) he drove straight. AS he was lifting off for the RC jump, you were still on the straight line position. Your timing at 2:41 was better – he could see the RC diagonal sooner so he got the RC there.
2nd video – He had a similar question about the timing of the RC at :41 (you were not yet showing the info as he was taking off). The timing at 1:27 and 2:13 was better – he could see you getting on the RC line before he had to make a takeoff decision.
For the backside cues on this sequences and the other videos, remember to use more connection out of the tunnel to consistently get the backside push, and keep moving forward to the jump til he locks onto the backside. And then maintain connection to show the line to the tunnel entry you want. At 1:57 he was correct when you said ‘here’ and pulled him to your line so he took the other end of the tunnel. He is reading everything really well, so if something goes wrong try to watch the video before the next rep so you can see what he was seeing.
3rd video – A little too much Go Go on the jump line before switching to the RC cue at :47 was what go the off course 🙂 Go is a powerful word so you want to be careful when you use it 🙂 A ‘jump’ cue will get less forward momentum and make it easier to add the switch cues.
4th video (maybe one of the first reps?) – this had the GO line with the placed toy – very nice! The big loud verbals really helped support the line even when you aren’t running.
5th and 6th video (same video) – the straight line looked good here too, lots of driving way ahead even with you behind and not running hard. SUPER!!Nice work here! Have a happy Thanksgiving!
TracyHi!
The sequences look good!
The go lines are looking really good here!Small details:
On the FC on the backsides at :10 and 1:37, you can decelerate and be more on his line to tighten the turns a little. You will literally be standing on his ideal landing spot as he comes around the backside wing – then move forward towards the tunnel so you are not in his way when he needs the landing spot.Seq 2 – Good job calling sooner before he entered the tunnel on the 2nd rep of it! This is a hard line to set on the tunnel exit (deliberately designed that way to put the handlers a little behind :)) To set the tighter line to the next jump, stick closer to the tunnel exit so you can set the line then drive immediately onto the RC diagonal – you don’t need to turn and face the line at all, you can be running directly to the center of the bar on the RC jump. That will smooth it out!
3rd sequence: When going back to the straight line, you can totally use your GO verbal for at least the first jump after the tunnel. Then you can decelerate into the wrap, like you did on the last rep at 2:05 – that was lovely! YAY!!
You were a little too early at 1:52 by stopping your motion and rotating as he landed from the jump before the wrap jump. The last rep was a really clear transition of going from fast to decelerating (while moving forward) then rotating. NICE!!!Great job here! Have a happy Thanksgiving!!!
Tracy
Hi!
>>To me, he seems like an all-business kind of guy.
He might be all business! I think most dogs are all business in the time between the ring entry and the release from the start line, as long as we optimize arousal before they enter the ring and they know how to self-regulate. It takes some practice/experimenting and he is doing well!
I don’t think he will need the Pink Panther lead out at a trial, but it is GREAT for practice so he rehearses his stays and other behaviors in the arousal state he will be in at trials.
He did really well here and you’ll want to add in rehearsals that are more trial like: working on leash and doing this around other dogs (especially after watching another dog run!).
>>Sitting by the jumps waiting or lining himself up. >>
Yes – but that is also not something that will happen in the trial ring, so be sure to mix in reps to show him what the trial ring entry would look like: leash on, go to the first jump, leash off, line up. If he is in the habit of waiting at the jump for you, or lining up without a leash, it could be a brain exploder if we wait too long to add in the actual progression he will see at a trial. So adding it in now and practicing it will take it very easy 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
He is doing well with the leash coming off! The main thing is that we don’t want the dogs leaving us and we want them to regulate their arousal – he was great with both. So you can reward that, either by using the toy or treats, or moving to the jump.>>He sometimes gets into the border collie stare>>
You don’t need to wait for eye contact here – you can reward “thanks for not leaving when the leash comes off” 🤣 He was getting a little sticky/frozen because the leash was off, he was engaged, and you were standing still staring at him… so you can reward for simply not moving away (it doesn’t matter if he makes eye contact or not, because he might not be able to make eye contact in that arousal state in that moment, and staring will add more pressure than needed).
Great job!
TracyHi!
Remote reinforcement is going well! It looks like there is a lot of intrinsic motivation for the game, so he is happy to play agility without the toy in your hand.
You can start to mix in different sequences, different obstacles, etc – as long as most of the training is still with the reward in the ring.
Do you have any access to FEO/NFC or fun matches coming up?
Tracy
Good morning!
Great job getting this to slow down so he can stand relatively still! The next steps would be to keep slowing it down so there are increasingly longer delays between treats, along with you looking around as if you are watching the course or planning your handling. The goal is to get him to be able to just stand still and basically do nothing 🙂And you can also play this game in front of some distractions, like when other dogs are around – you will probably have to keep it pretty fast-moving at first when adding distractions.
>>without him wandering off
Add the leash to this. This game will be used when he is on leash, outside the ring. So adding the leash will partially put it in context, and partially prevent him from wandering off.
>>how you move into a chill position or behavior or ?????>>
For a dog that likes to move a lot, the engaged chill behavior might end up looking like just standing still next to you and doing nothing (no moving around, no staring at dogs moving, no offering behavior, just standing there chilling out). He might end up offering a down but we don’t want to ask him for anything – this is all about internal self-regulation so standing still next to you would be great chill 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
Good job breaking down the skill here! As you break it down and get a couple of good success, be sure to balance it with straight lines too – that way we can be sure he is reading the different cues and not just running to the toy thrower 🙂One thing to be careful of is going for too long or doing the same thing too many times in a row… he was really tired by minute 6 of this session and it went for 10 full minutes. So be sure to set a timer for maybe 3 minutes, then give him a break. That way he can have fresh legs as you work on the skills.
Having him follow the toy throw helped get his eyes on the RC line. Nice! Try to fade the helper out and off the line, so he is not looking at her and looking at the jumps instead.
Nice work here!!
TracyGood morning!
On the outdoor video: The whole first part looked terrific! Great job with your connection and showing him each line. YAY!! The only blooper was at the very end, when he went straight instead of turning right. I thought your rear cross line at :24 was timely but as an inexperienced dog, he was locked on the line and heard the GO verbal, so off he went. A name call there might help get his attention on the turn, calling him before you switch to your right verbal.On the indoor video, he definitely confirms that GO is a powerful verbal for him! You were saying it a lot so he was going straight – at :39 you can be earlier on the RC info but definitely say GO less. The rep at 1:22 had earlier physical cues and a little less GO verbal, and he got it. YAY!!
So as you are setting up for a rear cross, you can use a soft jump verbal or left/right along with his name, but since the louder GO verbal is very powerful, you will want to be careful about using it too much.
Nice job here!!
TracyHi!
Thank you for the tugging video! Mechanics are everything, so take a break from training the other stuff until we’ve got this where we want it (it won’t take long).
The plank stuff is easy, he is happy to get on it, no problem. Try to move more slowly when he turns around so he can work his coordination.
On the backing up – keep him closer to the mat for now with fewer steps backwards, so he can go directly to the mat without curling to the side. You can put the treats just far enough away so that his front feet come off and his back feet maybe come off by one step, so he doesn’t have to back up tooooo far for now 🙂
So let’s put all of that away for now, though, and look at the tugging and arousal regulation. The humping is a self-regulation coping skill, so it is not a bad thing and it is great information about what he needs.
A couple of things to do:
>> I do the pattern games with Yuzu all the time, so he is very familiar with them. Are you saying I should start each session with them?>>
Nope – do them after tugging to help his body learn to regulate his arousal. So for now, the entire session would be high excitement tugging, pattern game, have a rest. Then try again later with the same order of festivities 🙂
A couple of other ideas:
– Since tugging is not a duration behavior, so keep each tug moment to under 10 seconds then move on to the next thing (for now, it will be a pattern game or snuffle mat). Get the pattern game or snuffle mat while he is stimulated but before he gets overstimulated or leaves the game. On the first video, the initial tugging was for about 25 seconds which is a long time, so he ended up self-regulating and leaving to ask for cookies. In the second part of the video, the tug session was over 70 seconds and then he started humping the donut (again, self-regulation).
So tug and count to 10 in your head then get the snuffle mat involved or the pattern games (rather than waiting til he has tried to figure out a different coping strategy, such as leaving/humping/jumping on you.
– these are both good toys to use, but they are both too short. They require you to be sitting down or bending, which puts your flesh in close proximity to his teeth. So, tie them together so they create a 5 or 6 foot long toy – think flyball length toy, not the teeny tiny toys that agility people like to use LOL! That way you can swing the fun part of it around on the ground for him to chase and tug on, and he is not likely to grab your hand while re-gripping the toy (that is what was happening in general, especially when your hands lifted the toy up – when the toy moved up in the air, so did his teeth trying to grab it.
So the entire training session can be 10 seconds of high energy swinging the toy for him to chase/grab/tug, then pattern game or snuffle mat. That will begin to ‘train’ his physiology to self-regulate. And if 10 seconds ends up being too long and he gets overaroused, no worries, go to 5 seconds 🙂
Let me know if this makes sense, and how he does!
Tracy
Hi!
She is doing well with the backing up! I think most of the sideways movement was coming from when you were delivering the reward: she was curling away from the hand to better face the cookie. So you can leave your hand down low the whole time, so you can just flick the cookie into place. I suggest a low chair for this so your back doesn’t get angry if you are bent over the whole time.Also, adding a “destination” can help her back up straight, such as backing up onto a mat. That is in the “Adding Challenge section of the game
Start with her on a mat that is big enough for her to stand on and you can follow the steps outlined there to get her to back up to it!
Have fun! Nice work here!
TracyHi!
He did well sorting out the back and forth game here! I think if you carry the bowls with you until you are ready and then put them down, you will see him get started immediately – that makes the bowls more salient rather than fading into the background because they have been there the whole time.
You can also drop the cookies into the bowl sooner: as soon as he starts going around the barrel, you can plop the cookie in rather than wait til he arrives at the bowl. That will keep him looking at you less. He did well getting himself out of the sit and back into the pattern!!
He was in a bit of a left turn vortex here (going behind you) so try to stand with your back to the couch to encourage him to stay in front of you.
>.BTW, sorry about all the videos. I have been in doggie lockdown as Colbie was Dx with KC last week. This has given me sooooo much time to train Teagan. The downside is that it all has to be done at home. I’m still waiting to see if any of the other 3 dogs come down with it.>>
Poor Colbie! Hope he feels better fast!!! Being at home does give you more time, but you can resist temptation to do extra sessions – in the past week I think you’ve had 20 sessions, which is a bit too much repetition for a baby dog. Try to do maybe one a day, or a couple then skip a day. And you can add in just playing with toys, etc. so his brain has time to process the sessions and cement the learning before the next one.
Nice work here!
Tracy
