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He is doing well here too! My main suggestion is not to step to the out jump – that looked more like a forward send and made it harder for you to keep moving. You can move on a parallel line to the bar and use your upper body to cue it but your feet will keep moving forward to the next wing. Do it slowly at first so he can find the line without focusing too much on your motion.
He had little trouble finding the right turn wrap on the wing nearer to the camera. At 1:25 he needed more connection on the send to the wing (he need to turn right and came in and turned left there)
At 1:40 you used more motion which blocked the wing, and it sounds like he went into a nearby tunnel (good boy!)
It was better connection and great line of motion at 2:08 until he got ahead and then you turned forward (also showing us his left turn preference )
2:26 and 3:32 were great – great motion and great connection so he got it. Yay!
Nice work here! Keep me posted on how he does this weekend!
Tracy
Hi!
He did well here finding the out jump! You can add even more distance:
Try not to step to the out jump at all – that makes it a forward send and takes you off the handler line of motion.You can keep moving forward to the next wing and let your upper body cue the out jump with the extreme connection (and outside arm too)
Yo can add a little more connection to the cue for the wing wraps at :17 and :24 – you were looking forward a bit on those reps so he was not sure where to be.
Nice job!!
TracyGood morning!
>>The weather is definitely not cooperating. The ground is saturated and another atmospheric river is on the way.
Argh! News reports here are showing some really bad weather on the West Coast!!! Fingers crossed it goes away FAST because it has been a bad winter for you California folks!!!
>>When is our last day to post?
February 21st is the last day – it seemed like a good idea to leave plenty of time because the weather is so unpredictable everywhere this year.
>>It LOOKS like you are using an outside arm on the back cue along with extreme connection. What if you are in a box? We just used the off arm to get the out. So, how does the dog know it’s the back of the jump ahead of them and NOT to go out sideways to the off course jump?>>
Yes, I use the outside arm with a couple of my dogs on the backside. 2 elements of the context make the difference between the backside and a get out: Verbal is a big one of course and the proximity of off course lines/jumps is why the verbals have become so darned important.
And the other reason is line of motion, which is slightly different between the get out and the backside slice cues (that incudes the motion of the outside arm: for a get out, my arm points to the exit wing of the get out jump. For the backside slice, my outside arm points to the entry wing of the backside jump. And threadle arms point back to the dog. Agility is COMPLEX!!)
But with that in mind: what a great proofing idea!! I might take that outside today and play with a setup to see how it goes, and then I will report back 🙂
>>Also, Sprite Marie Louise will likely benefit from the extreme collection on wraps. >>
When my Voodoo was Sprite’s age, I basically had to shift connection to his eyes and move 2 hands and a foot towards him! He got a lot easier to handle with more experience (for both of us LOL!)
>Are you putting your hands towards their face as well? >>
Yes – my mantra is that my fingers are extensions of my eyeballs 🙂
>>Do you hold that pressure until you see the actual collection stride before moving in the new direction?
Yes – and the first couple of times I might even stop the dog entirely and then when I see the collection, cue the wrap behind me. It is a LOT of pressure though, so release that pressure by letting her chase you to the reward and run around with it after each rep 🙂
>>I might as well ask questions since we can’t train outdoors.>>
Definitely! Thank you for the good idea!!!!
Tracy
Good morning!
Working the on the puppy track still has plenty of challenge 🙂 This was a good session!
I liked your timing of the reward and the placement at :12 when you tossed the toy behind you – she didn’t quite expect it so you can use a ‘get it’ as you toss it.You switched to waiting for her to come back over the bar (which she did because of your position & connection) – but to take her to the next step of complete independence, do what you did at :12 . She will figure out very quickly that the toy will be tossed behind you and she will start to look for the jump without you (so you will be able to disconnect and run to where you need to be :))
Nice work here!
TracyGood morning!
Nice work here – the puppy track is plenty challenging so it was smart to switch to it!He did really well!! Two things that will help solidify this skill:
– you can send to the push from further away (further across the jump) more like what you did on the last video. That will keep you moving ahead so you can disconnect and run : )
– you can disconnect sooner and drop the toy while you are disconnected (it is hard to disconnect after all of this connection work LOL!!) Drop the toy as soon as he is heading to the backside, no need to wait until he is coming back between the uprights – you were waiting for him to come back through on some of the reps. The timing of the dropping on the 3rd and 4th videos here was spot on! The toy drop helps create the behavior of coming back to take the jump as he is learning it.
Great job here!!!
TracyGood morning!
That is a great update about trialing! Sounds like she is getting more and more relaxed 🙂 Super!On the serp video: This is looking really strong!
The first rep went well! There was a little blooper on the 2nd rep – you pulled away from the serp bar, deceled a little, then moved back towards her and looked ahead at :12 – bar down. You can see her look up at you a little there.
The next 2 reps were perfect! Great line of motion and connection!!!Turn aways:
The tandem turns are looking food! You can add more independence and distance by using less RC motion so basically you are turning her away without also moving to the other side of the jump. You can do this by getting your hands involved more – as you move forward to the same wing as if you are going straight, show her your hands then shift connection down to them and turn her away – that way she will still get the turn away line and you will be further and further away, which is a very useful skill!>>I originally was taught different body positioning for threadle wraps then what you use, so perhaps I need to change that.>>
What you were doing here was a lap turn style of threadle/wrap which is a good tool! It is best used when you are way ahead so you don’t need to back up – the backing up creates a conflicting indicator of motion (versus verbal and hand and rotation). That is what happened at :37 and 1:24 – you were in a good position but the backing up cued the front of the jump. And when you didn’t back up a lot, you cued the front of the jump by accident (you were still on the takeoff side at 1:37 & 1:52 & 2:05).
You did get it by being further away from the jump at :54 and the last reps, for example. You can get it when you are closer to the jump with a clearer connection shift to your hand – it looked like you were looking at her which did indicate the front of the jump.
Doing the forward facing threadle wrap will be easier for staying in motion and staying ahead (but it is also a hard move :)) For both the lap turn and the threadle wrap, you can start the move with big connection to her eyes and show her your hand(s) then make a very obvious connection shift to draw her to you and off the jump. That should help her see that it is not the front of the jump.
Great job here!
TracyHi! Thanks for the video – this is even more important than the skills (the skills stuff at the end was really good!) There were a bunch of things going on:
>> As we walked to the field he seemed excited, but in control. However, once we got near the obstacles, the whining and jumping started and I couldn’t get him to sit. He jumps at my face and hands and he takes the tunnel a few times.>>
Yes – the tunnel/wings are very stimulating now because they are associated with really fun stuff! So he was getting increasingly frustrated by not knowing what to do or offer as you were getting your toy and food ready. It was a little like a teapot boiling water… he started off calm and cool, then when things progressed and he didn’t know what to do, he was getting hotter and hotter LOL!
Part of what you can do is change the structure of the beginning of the session so he is not waiting for you to get the treats/toys/etc ready – he doesn’t know what to do in those moments, so we can help him! He can sit on a station like a table, or hang out in a crate until you are ready… then you can call him into the session from the station or release him from the crate and immediately get to ‘work’. That eliminates the delay where he gets frustrated because he doesn’t know what to do, and also teaches him the framework of getting right to work when he is near obstacles.
Have all of your cookies/toys/plan ready before you call him into the session, and then take the first few reps to bridge him up into work mode: this can be a couple of reps of the pattern game (back and forth with tossed treats). Then when he is engaging really quickly, you can go right into the game (or do a little tugging before the game – experiment to see what works better for him).
Do a few reps of the game, with quick transitions between reps (a cookie trade to get the toy back seemed to help, but he will also be less aroused/frustrated so he is more likely to release the toy sooner), then take a break and do some decompression (snuffle mat is great!)
All of this makes the session “cleaner” and clearer for him – which will help regulate arousal/frustration because it will all be so much more predictable 🙂
>> After 5 minutes of trying to get him to come back I gave up and went inside by myself.>>
When he is not training and just playing with a toy, does he bring it back pretty quickly? If yes, then this moment was probably just him needing to decompress. If no, then you can work on bringing the toy back separately and when training stuff that uses a toy, you can attach the toy to a leash so you can throw it but not worry if he brings it back or not (you will hold the other end of the leash 🙂
>>I get bit all the time when I’m training exciting things with Mason. It’s inhibited and it’s usually accidental, for example if he’s trying to grab the toy, but it hurts a lot and I don’t want him doing this to me or anyone else. He doesn’t seem to be aggressive, just overaroused.>>
Yes, it is not aggression, just arousal. Definitely use MUCH bigger and longer toys – flyball toys that are big, wide, fluffy, and LONG 🙂 That will protect your flesh, because you can drag it on the ground and he has a lot more length of toy to tug and will be a lot further from your hands.
And being ready to start before he comes into the session will make a big difference too – it looks like he was jumping/grabbing more as he got more frustrated here, so if we reduce the frustration then we are likely to see the jumping up go away as well.
I do say “ouch!” if the dog grabs my hand by accident, but this is when I am rewarding and the dog grabs the toy too close to my hand – but I use biiiiig long toys! And if the dog is frustrated, I change what I am doing to reduce the frustration.
>>Incidentally, Mason doesn’t get excited at all by the A-frame and dogwalk in the yard even though he has wandered across them a few times. The overarousal seems to come once he has learned that these are agility obstacles. >>
Yep – that makes sense 🙂
>> Now that he knows they are part of sequences, he struggles to do even a sit near either one in the yard or the arena.>>
Try adding the high arousal sit games into your training:
That will go a long way towards being able to line up and sit even when he is around very stimulating things.
>>Mason is capable of doing games like the tunnel rocking horses in this state, but he has a reckless, frantic quality about him and I feel like doing agility at this level of arousal is not safe for him.>>
He didn’t do anything unsafe in the rep on the video! He was fast, yes, but not reckless. The arousal and frustration being better regulated will probably change how his energy feels which can make a difference too.
>> I’ve certainly seen bc’s like this doing agility successfully, so maybe this isn’t a huge issue and it’s just me getting used to a new dog. Annie was a thinker, an over-thinker actually (like her mom). I admired that about her, lol.>>
Might not be an issue at all, so don’t worry about it 🙂 Focus on the clean training where he comes into the session after you are ready, bridging him up to the game with the pattern game, longer toys, etc.
>> I love that he seems to like my favorite sport, but I’d like more self control. He turns 10 months old on Saturday. I’m not sure if this self control will come on its own if I just wait or if I should try to train it.>>
He is a full-on adolescence, so changing the session structure will make a pretty massive difference.
>>I could use some focused ideas. I have lots of ideas from MaxPup and MYOB, but they are all over the place so I keep picking a new strategy each day .. lower value toy, no toy, higher value food, no reward from the hand, being calmer, pattern games near obstacles, take a break from training, take a break from tunnels, stop sessions anytime I get bit or jumped on, etc, etc.>>
I think you are going for calming stuff… which is not that effective for him and he is getting frustrated which brings on the over-arousal. I don’t think it is a value issue, and using no toy/only food avoids the arousal entirely which will come back to bite you at some point later on 🙂
No need to be calmer – have fun! Let him rip! Trying to contain him in a very controlled way can be frustrating too. And stopping the session when he jumps on you or bites you can be punishing – which can be very frustrating for him (and you) and that can create more arousal/frustration. So changing th session structure is the way to go!
Choose the strategy based on what the training goal is. Some strategies can be the same for every session, like not bringing him into the session until you are totally ready to start immediately (crates and stations are so useful!) So for a session with tunnels, you can get your toy and treats ready, call him to you from the station or release him from the crate (which should be nearby, so if you need to go open the door then that is easy to do). Then engage him immediately when he enters the environment – giving him a framework of what to do. The pattern games will ease him in (rather than just trying to line up and go). And between reps/after tugging, it is fine to do a bit of pattern game if he likes that. And you can add in decompression too, in the form of a snuffle mat.
And if you *do* reward from the hand, it needs to be with a long toy or something huge to grip so he can aim for something that is not flesh. Food can be thrown so he doesn’t accidentally get your hands as he is working through his arousal.
And if he is starting to jump up at you or vocalize or offer behavior or get grabby… he is telling you he needs more input on how to be correct 🙂
Let me know what you think!!
TracyHi!
Nice work on the shifting connection! For the wraps, you can do it even sooner, as a cue:
Instead of following him with your eyes as he passes you, you can decel and rotate and then disconnect a bit to look at the landing spot. Basically you look at him then look at the landing spot, as if saying “YOU GO THERE” lol!!
And to support it, use the ‘new’ hand/arm (not the dog-side arm, send with the opposite arm as you rotate). That can get you rotated sooner and even further ahead of him (which is always a good thing!) And it can also help clear up his question about whether it is a FC or RC on the jump.What was happening at :09 and :18 when he did a RC away from you was that you were moving in towards the bar without much decel, sending into the wrap with the dog side hand. That added pressure to the line, turned your shoulders and connection to the RC line, so did indeed look like a RC cue (good boy!) If that accidental RC happens, assume it was handler error and either keep going or reward. You can see he lost a little confidence when you marked it as incorrect and didn’t reward – he was confused because he was reading your cues correctly.
Compare those to the reps at :29 and :33 where you were further away from the jump and had more decel (less pressure in towards the jump when you started to rotate) so he knew it was a FC wrap. Yay!
Circle wraps – The circle wrap shifting connection looked great! On these, you were definitely using the shifting connection as a cue: as he was passing you, you took your eyes off of his eyes and looked back to the ‘landing’ spot as you continued to move forward – fantastic commitment on those! My only suggestion on these is to remember your exit line connection as he exits the jump before the circle wrap. You were looking ahead too much at 1:08 so you can see him look up at you and slow down. Your exit line connection was much clearer at 1:16 and 1:26 so he didn’t look at you and he was speedy on that line 🙂
The seminar video looked awesome!!
>>. Thought you’d like it. I was very proud of my fast running, complete with pumping arms and keeping my connection >>
HECK YEAH! Great connection, so he didn’t have to look at you and could drive ahead of you even when you were initially ahead on the line – so cool!!!
Great job here 🙂
TracyHi! Hooray for decent weather!!
I think the connection here was overall pretty strong! He was really good about going to the wing and finding the jumps, including after the cross. Yay!
The main thing I recommend here is to send to the wing from even further away (miles away!) so you can get to the FC or BC sooner. You were moving forward to the wing til he committed at :06, :24, :31 and :40, then had to run hard to get to the cross – that made the cross a little late (because you were a shade too close to the wing) and also he didn’t expect a tight turn because you had big acceleration to get there.
So you can change it up: stay closer to the jump before the wing send, decelerating a bit… then as he is landing from that jump, do a big massive connected send to the wing. As he is passing you and heading to the wing, you won’t have to rush back to get the cross. You will get there sooner and can decelerate into the cross – which will help him see the tightness of it sooner and also give you more time to get the arm across your body for the exit line connection.
Based on what he did here, I bet that will be really easy for him! And it should feel much easier for you too 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! I am glad you found a dry spot and everything else is drying out too!
Good job on the serp exercises!! I think he has a really strong understanding of the serp skill, so now you can add even more independence and countermotion to it!
The main thing will be to send to the wing before the jump from even further away. Ideally you would be moving towards the center of the bar of the jump and sending to the wing from that line. We tending to be closer to the wing (or entry wing of the serp jump) so he was serping in, but the cue was a little late (as he was approaching the jump) and you were ending up on his line (like at :18 and :24) so he had to slow down.
So, if you send to the wing from further away (using one step and the directional, rather than a few steps and a ‘go’ verbal) you should be able to be miles ahead of him 🙂 On the simple serp slices, as he is exiting the wing, you will be past the center of the bar and showing the connection shift to the landing – that can put you at the next wing before he even takes off for the jump! That would be a nice position advantage on bigger courses 🙂
For the countermotion – as he is exiting the wing before the jump, you can be passing the exit wing of the serp and moving forward towards the takeoff side (connection shifting back to landing side). That is harder commitment, of course, but the connection shift should help him and it will also help get you waaaaay ahead. 🙂
Your send at :34 was the furthest send to the wing before the jump here and he was great, of course 🙂 So at :36 you were at the exit wing. For the countemotion, to show it before he makes a takeoff decision, you can send like you did at :34 but then go directly to the exit wing of the serp jump (no running parallel to the bar, just moving into the counteraction).
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>honest about handler failures.
Yes, she is still very young so doesn’t know the cues enough to help you if it is unclear 🙂 So keep rewarding and breaking things down so she doesn’t get frustrated.
>>Yes she was more jumpy in these. I think she was much more out of her comfort zone and unsure what I wanted. This was stuff we havent done anything on and she was saying but but >>
For the newer stuff or the harder stuff – you can start each session with the skill broken down and very easy, just to see what she knows and teach her the new stuff. This way, she will get the skill started and lots of reward, rather than failing at the harder versions of it.
Have fun!
Tracy
Good morning!
>>I’m just now getting back to exercise and I really hate it lol>>
Oh, this is entirely relatable!!! I am getting back to it to and hate it too LOL!!!!
These sessions looked great – the first session was really good but the adjustments you made for the 2nd session were great! You were able to add a lot of motion and she was till responding brilliantly.
She did the “out” at the beginning almost all on verbals! And she did just fine when you added moving straight the whole time, she was still easily able to find the jump. She also had no questions when you added more running on the line
So basically she can find it with a verbal, with a send step, and with a verbal and arm as you move forward. That is strong commitment!
For the turn aways – she was reading these really well too! On the first part of the session, you were using a lot of motion towards the RC line to help her turn away. That went well, but I love how in the 2nd part of the video you were using your hands/verbal/connection to get the turn away, rather than moving in closer to the jump (like at 2:05 and 2:23). This will give you a ton of independence on the lines and will be especially useful if you need to use distance or layer something.
Only one suggestion to add (in this sequence or any where there are crosses): Remember to use big exit line connection back to her on the FC exits, especially the FC from 3-4 on the longer sequence. It is a hard line without the exit line connection, so she was a little wide behind you waiting for more side info. You can see it at 1:34 and 2:04 for example.
Great job here!!
TracyGood morning! Have fun at the Classic, hopefully the weather cooperates!
>>Yes, on the list of things to check and writing it down. I’ll work on that – typically it’s things like accel or deccel, where are my feet pointing, what is my mouth saying and when, where are my shoulders pointing, what are my arms doing, what type and how much connection do I have with my dog. I’ll work on a mental list to run through in these situations so I’m not just one big question mark of WTF???>>
We can make it a checklist, like diagnosing a problem with a car LOL!! For example, we take something that has gone wrong (like ending up on the wrong side of us after a blind) and develop a quick checklist to go through to problem solve, in order of most likely cause to least likely cause (like lack of timely connection on the new side is the most likely cause, line focus on an off course obstacle is the least likely cause).
It can be fun to do it plus it is a good alternate behavior for us humans, so we don’t end up frustrated. Just like dog training, we can work to keep ourselves in an optimal state of arousal 🙂
T
Good morning!
OMG Sarah this is awesome! You and Mingo look like a smooooooth, connected (and fast :)) agility team!
My favorite part of this is your connection – your arm was back to her so she could easily see your eyes and shoulders. This meant she could see her line and NOT have any questions. Super! That is why she was fast & tight. Also, BIG click treat to you for the wrap directionals and for the reward marker.
The spin is looking really good! Your timing was good for a baby dog in the learning phases: you started the rotation just after she was definitely at the barrel. As you get more comfy that she will commit as you rotate the new direction, you can start it earlier and earlier. Next time you can start it just as she arrives at the barrel… then if that goes well, you can start it just before she gets to the barrel. That will be significantly harder for her (in terms of staying committed because momma is going the other direction) but she LOVES her barrel so I bet she does great 🙂
>>My video from yesterday wasn’t good as she was out of the frame a lot but she used her bank of stay payments for good use today in her lesson with Donna>>
No worries! Some days are good stay days with youngsters… and some days all the stays get used up LOL! It sounds like she did well with her lesson!!
Terrific job here 🙂
Tracy
