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Good morning!
Throwbacks went well! You can be even closer to the wing, almost sitting on it, to really emphasize the positional cue. And because she has a lovely response to countermotion, you can start moving forward to the correct tunnel entry even sooner without having to step back wards toward the jump at all.
>I was so focused on her that I forgot to call her in time to cue her to the opposite end of the tunnel.>
Yes, she was a good girl to stay on her line 🙂
2nd video –
For the blind on the landing side of 3, if you are able to get between the uprights of 3 before she exits the tunnel then you can also already be done with the blind (already on your left side like you were starting to do at :21, on this sequence, rather than connect on your right then blind to your left). That will be even quicker!
The takeoff side of 3 was a FC that had great timing
Be sure to turn her at :24 & :39 – you were accelerating and I think you said go, so she stayed on her line (which was the line past the jump). Turning your shoulders and calling her name at 4 should be all she needs to turn.
You can see this one the 3rd video – for the first reps, yes – she was correct to read it as a line to the backside. She could see acceleration and parallel line motion over 4, good girl! So to get the FC side of 5, you will want to turn sooner to face it as she lands from 3 (that is more of what you did at :40 so she found the front side). A name call will help too! Then as she is jumping 4, start the decel for the wrap at 5. You
>rear crosses. We haven’t been very successful with these. How can I break these down?>
For the rear cross: using this sequence for example, you will want to be running to the center of the bar of jump 5 as early as possible – and no later than when she is taking off for 4. At :53 you turned to the right turn line then showed RC info after she took off for 5, so she turned right when she landed.
You can break it down by starting at 4 to show her the RC line, then adding 3 – when you add 3, you might have to give her turn cues on 4 so she turns to face 5 while you move to the center of the bar of 5.
Nice work here!
Tracy
Hello from somewhere in Indiana!
Whining is always welcome! Whining can stoke ideas.
>I tried to ignore the dropped bars, since the only advice I get on fixing them is “be more perfect” and that doesn’t really help.
Valid point, though! In handling classes, we generally work only on the handling side which does indeed feel like a lot of advice to be more perfect.
But the reality is, perfect is impossible in agility so I have 3 other things I do with jumping skills:
– conditioning so the dogs have the power and core strength to jump properly over and over (confession: I need do more conditioning of course)
– jump education and proofing (grids with motion, distraction training, etc etc)
– high arousal training and regulation work (i do a ton of this) because the first thing that goes away when the dog is aroused will be mechanics. And jumping requires a lot of rapidfire mechanics. The arousal work has served me very well because the dogs maintain excellent form even in high arousal.
– a steady program of body work for the dogs so there are no restrictions, soreness, etc. They see massage and chiro as often as they compete and, depending on the dog, sometimes more often.
Happy to discuss any/all of these so it isn’t all about handling needing to be perfect.
Speaking of handling, I had an epiphany watching your video.
You were prioritizing position over timing. What I mean by that is you were trying to get to a decent spot between 5 and 6 before starting the blind. That resulted in late cues/wide turns and a collision when you were too much on his line.
In general, when you got to a decent position, you were starting the blind as he took off for 5, which is a jump later than it needed to start.
So here is the epiphany part: we flip the priority and voilà – blinds are easy peasy.
The priority should be connection & timing (they are linked), followed by position.
When you started to trust his line after the tunnel exit (after :26), you were far up the line enough that you can start the blind when he is approaching 4 (jump after tunnel). And keep moving up the line to 6. Motion (and a jump verbal if needed) will show 5. And he will see the cues before takeoff for 5.
I left in a couple of “oops too early reps” on the video but that dog is a lot smaller than Casper so I don’t think early will be an issue at all.
So that’s my only suggestion here for a fix: move the way you did, but start the blind when you see a blur near 4 (as long as you are passing 5, which you were :))
So it might have felt frustrating but it was overall good work!
Tracy
Hi!
I am heading out to the center of the country! Iowa (Quad Cities) then Minneapolis – agility seminars in both locations. Fun!!!!It sounds like your surgery went well! I know the dogs were bored but I bet you are happy to be finished with the carpal tunnel!!!
The stay session went great! And it cracked me up when he actually caught the treat! It think that he has turned trying to catch the treat into part of the game 🙂 He was very excited to be playing, held the stay beautifully, and was easily able to ignore Brighton’s Sad Song Of FOMO 🤣
Since his stays are looking great and his line up (‘peek’) is super as well – you can do a couple of little things here:
Instead of the treats in your pocket, leave them on the little table. Then go towards the couch, line him up, and go get a cookie off the table then keep going to a different spot. That adds in an extra stealth self-control challenge and some remote reinforcement.
You can also put a bowl on the ground so he learns to line up and stay in front of it, as if it was a jump 🙂 It can be empty at first and if it is easy for him, you can leave food in it (or put a bag of treats on the ground). It will be good practice for when he is needing to line up and stay in front of a jump.
Great job!
Tracy
Do you mean a target without food on it, then place the food on it after he arrives at the target? This is what the bang game becomes so yes, it is a good next step: have a nice obvious target and when he jumps into position and puts his front feet on it, you can then deliver the reward to his mouth just above the target. You can practice it first on a plank then transfer it to a target, I think he will pick it up really easily.
T
Hi!
He was fully engaged and excited… It looks like he was thinking he was in a stay for some of this and didn’t realize it was a shaping game 🙂 so you can do a wing wrap before it so he knows there is no stay. Or start from a cookie toss, to make it look different. I am glad he likes his stays and was offering them so well!
He was hitting the mat nicely – you can give him a bigger one to hit so his whole body can run through it. I am thinking a dish towel would be perfect 🙂 and you can start marking his back feet hitting it, instead of just front feet.
He was also watching the toy – you can use big chunks of food to throw as the reward, so he looks ahead more as you workthis game.
Nice work!
Tracy
Hi!
>I have always tried to square Benni up to any jump I want to RC this is on a bend. Sounds like this is not correct? I think that is what I was trying to do with Brioche.
Squaring up straight to the jump will present the turn towards you to a young dog – making the RC info late. An experienced dog will figure it out and be able to adjust, but it is more ideal to show the correct info earlier by facing the center of the bar to show the RC line so the young dog doesn’t have to figure it out with trial & error.
>As for the forced FC/threadle at a practice jump. Won’t it be hard with a wingless jump in a small space? Since there won’t be a wing for me to stand behind… I don’t want to make it confusing for Brioche. >
It will be a little harder but totally doable!
>Or maybe just the practice of the stay with the picture of me low with my hand out might be beneficial…>
Definitely a great opportunity to practice the stay as well!
> I have done the mountain climber twice at UDOG on 3 or 4 different see saws with no tip. We just used a wing to prop the see saw up.>
At UDog, if he is happy with no tip, you can add a bit of tip 🙂
> At home, do I continue to make it tip past the midway point in the same manner because then it becomes uphill and downhill? >
It depends on how his end position is going on the bang game. I don’t ask for any downhill stuff until the bang game is looking strong.
>Still can’t find a clip n go. I might have to drive 90 min to take a private with someone up in Saugerties, NY. They have one there but she isn’t allowing ring rentals anymore.>
90 minutes is a little far! I found one in NJ for you – do you know Jackie Wright-Minogue? And I am sure there are other folks who have one.
>>Jumps have been at 8 inches for Brioche. Let me know if I should put them up to 10″ or just keep it at 8″ for a week or two more.>
Try a jump at 10″ on an easy line, show it to him, and see how he does! I expect it will be easy 🙂
Tracy
Good morning!
Looking at the first video:
Right before going into the tunnel at :41 she saw you facing straight, so she exited looking at the red jump on the way to the dog walk. She figured it out on the next rep and found the line nicely 🙂 You can give a bit of a name call when you are giong to be way ahead like that.
> but when I tried to lag behind her she seemed a bit confused.>
I think what happened there was that the jump after the tunnel is miles away 🙂 and you went from being far ahead on the first reps to being way behind on the reps at 1:19, 1:32, 2:21. She didn’t see the line and was unsure, You split the difference on the last rep and it was great – a little bit ahead to set the line and she could see it then blast past you. It will get easier to be further behind as she gets more experience.
On the opening, you started pushing in towards 2 so she started going to the backside line.
I loved the conversation there:
You: Am I too far in?
Kyla: She says so!Yes – Sol was definitely saying that. Nice adjustment after that! And that bit of pressure to get the backside easily? You are going to love that skill when she is running big courses!!
On the 2nd video:
> In our second session I placed the ball at the last jump and it made her accelerate and drive straight ahead. Is placing the ball ok? Is she actually taking in what she’s doing or just thinking about her toy? >
Placing it was fine here – she was finding the line without it, and so placing it helped get the reward in before she looked back at you. I don’t think she was only thinking about the toy, because she was looking forward nice and early and could do it without the toy too.
>The first few takes on the blinds were rough, I could feel I was definitely not turning fast enough and it caused her to have two different lines.>
It was not the quickness of turning on the blind (you were pretty quick!) it was the line you were running – getting close to 2 cued her to jump pretty straight, so she had to turn on landing.
To be able to get closer to 3 for the blind, you will want to play with moving along a line parallel to 1 and 2, but progressively further from 1 and 2. That way you won’t have to run to 2 to get her to commit – she will commit based on parallel line motion even if you are 10 or 15 feet (or meters 🙂 ) away!
>For the throw back, we had a tough time. How do I go about teaching this in small steps? (Committing to first two jumps so I can get into the right spot fast enough).>
The throwback itself is easy – you would need to be standing next to jump 3 and it is basically a backwards send like you’ve done on the wing games 🙂 Getting there is the hard part for sure! You can’t run into it and get close to 2 unless you can run a lot faster than the dog (spoiler alert…. I don’t think that will happen LOL!) So this is where being able to trust her commitment is key – that way you can basically be standing at 3 before she takes off for 2.
Since this is not a moving cue like the blind is, you can backchain it:
– she starts in a stay on the landing of 2, with you at 3, to work the throwback.
– then she starts on the takeoff side of 2, with you at 3. You can throw rewards on the line for committing to 2
– then keep backing her up as her starting point: halfway between 1 and 2, on the landing side of 1, then eventually on the takeoff side of 1. And rewards thrown on the line will really help with these too.You can also move the jumps in closer together to see if that helps.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
Tunnel threadle video:
>He found the one side more difficult which was interesting as the side he got immediately he was turning away to his left and this is not usually his preference.>
He was reading the cues closely, and there were subtle differences in the handling. When he was threadling on your left side (turning away to his left), you set the line really well but turning to a line parallel to the path he needed to take to the threadle entry, then you stayed on that path til he turned himself away to the tunnel. There was a little help from your hand but I am not really sure he needed that 🙂
When he was on your right side (turning to his right):
on the first rep, as he exited the wing, your line was parallel to the normal tunnel entry so that is where he went. You can see him look at you to be sure 🙂
Then you were able to adjust your line to show the threadle side (yay!) but ended up using motion to try to turn him into the tunnel – when he did the turn away on the flat, that was your feet stepping into him. And when he pushed back out to the other side of the tunnel, that was pressure in towards his line – he looked at you there too as if saying “are you sure, human?!?” LOL!!When you turned to the line parallel to the threadle side of the tunnel then stayed on that line til he turned himself away: perfect!!!
It is easier to see this with visuals, so I grabbed some screenshots:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1IKoeBFkTr3GNJWtQMF9lBX-JjFbDEOeZQy0xwWrub-E/edit?usp=sharingFir the zig zags – finding the right spacing for the small dogs can be challenging for sure! You can use weave poles as bars because that will shorten the spacing, and a wingless jump instead of a wing can help overlap a little more.
The other thing I suggest is having your reward target several meters further away. Because it is close, he is thinking about decelerating to get to it. If it is further, he can power through the jumps and not decelerate for a few more strides.He is driving up the teeter really well! Wow! Behold the power of bread! The rear cross looked awesome too.
>Do you think I should increase tip on the teeter yet?>
Yes, you can keep increasing it in tiny bits as long as he approves of the bread and butter choices LOL
How is he doing with his end position (bang game)? At this rate, the teeter will come together quickly so we want him to be happy with his end position too.Big lines 1:
The stay is coming along! You can mix in zillions of those rewards thrown back, probably in a 4:1 ratio of reward to release. A quick reward for the very first stay in the session is always a good reminder 🙂The rest of the session looked awesome! He was finding his lines really well. He was not 100% sure of driving ahead of you on the line after the tunnel at the very end but he did it, and got a nice thrown reward. Yay! So that skill will continue to build.
Big lines 2:
You started with a stay reward and that was great!
>He wasn’t as sure about committing to all the jumps when I tried to progress though.>
He is still learning how to read that 1-2 line, and the key will be him committed based on a paralle line of motion cue. What I mean by that is you will be moving parallel to 1 and 2 with clear connection… but on a line that is laterally further from 1 and 2 so you are heading towards 3 without pulling away to show the line.
I put a screenshot with lines into the document, clearly I am in a photo mood today LOL!! The parallel line will be something to work on progressively so you can be further and further over, with lots of rewards thrown on the line to keep him matching the parallel line and committing 1-2.
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1IKoeBFkTr3GNJWtQMF9lBX-JjFbDEOeZQy0xwWrub-E/edit?usp=sharing
At :08 & :26 and the last rep, you got hte blinds finished before takeoff for 2 but you were running straight towards 2, so he landed wide and droppd the bar on the last rep.
He pulled off 2 at :37 and 1:10 because you disconnected and ran an “L” shaped line (see the screenshot with the yellow lines :))
Being connected as you are lateral will help too. Keeping your dog-side arm back towards him so he can see your upped body will help, along with the parallel line motion. At :45 – he didn’t know where to be and could see your position around the jump but not your connection so he broke the stay
At :52 you supported a little more with more and had a really good reward there!Your connection at 1:00 was already much clearer and that also creates a lovely turn at 2 even without doing the blind.
So keep working that parallel line motion so you can be further and further away, and then the blind will be much easier 🙂
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
I agree, making sure that the hand movement is NOT the release is the key element to maintain the stay. He definitely thought it was part of the release at the beginning of both videos, so be sure you are careful about that everywhere. When you arrive in position and stand still, then show the hand, you can take a nice long time before the release 🙂 And it is perfectly fine to repeat your stay cue as you get into position.
The forced front crosses looked great and so did the balance rep at the end.
The forced threadles also looked great as did the balance rep and the forced front at the end. He is reading the differences really well!!!
One suggestion:
When you add jump 1, put him on an angle so he is facing the line to the backside wing and not to the bar of jump 2. He will basically be slicing 1 to landing on a direct line to the backside. He was set up straight to 1 on these, facing the bar of 2 – the forced front cross is still relatively easy when he is facing the bar, but the forced threadle will be harder as you start to move because he can see more of you between the uprights. And the forced threadle is the one we use more often nowadays.
Since this went great and you are on the road this weekend – you can try this at the practice jump! Reward lots of stays and maybe do it during a quiet time first thing in the morning or during a walk through so his brain is not having to ignore a lot of excitement 🙂
The teeter looks fantastic. Super confident drive up the board!! He actually seemed to have a hard time tugging because he really wanted to do the teeter 😆
At home, keep going with this game and the bang game where he leaps into his position.
We also need to plan a teeter tour where you pack up the ‘tip it’ device and go visit as many different teeters as possible. When you show him a new teeter, take out most of the tip (or all of the tip) so it is almost a guarantee that he has a great experience for super high value rewards. This is a MAD Agility teeter, so he also needs to see a MAX200, a Clip-And-Go, and a Galican. They all move really differently so he basically has to move through the games on all of them. It will be fast but it is super important. Are there local folks who will let you come over to do a few runs on their different teeters? I have a MAX200 if you are ever in the Richmond/Charlottesville VA area!
Great job here! Enjoy your weekend!
Tracy
Good morning!
Holy wow, look at him FLYING on that sequence. Big distances, new location – no problem! LOVE IT! It was a really ideal young dog sequence. And he was great with the tire specially considering it was brand new. It is very fun to see the foundations coming together – and yes, he will be ready to run a novice course soon enough! Starting NFC/FEO is the best option to make the transition to the trial ring. And you can (and should) do this before he runs full height to make the transition really easy and fun for you both.
Tracy
Good morning!
Hope you had a fantastic vacation!!
>First Management, when I’m not in the mood to deal with it I put him in a crate and hubby will let him out after about 5 min. We are also throwing scatters as we come in/go out door. >
Excellent management!
>And finally we are having him sit and rewarding for him staying as we open door. >
Does he sit on a station somewhere far from the door? Sometimes running to get on a Klimb or something really helps, and something to try if you aren’t already doing it.
>Its a constant battle.
As for the bitey behavior, I have tried redirecting him to a toy but he wants no part of that when he is mouthing the humans. The toys are only interesting to chase and he won’t even chase when he is being bitey.>Since it is a constant battle and a lot of it involves his mouth biting things (doors, flesh…) have you considered a basket muzzle? There are a lot of big, comfy basket muzzles (in cute colors!) that he can wear. I suggest it because it might be really hard to ignore or redirect behaviors that are painful (like when he bites/mouths you) or damage things like the doors. Plus there might be an inherent endorphin release or maybe dopamine spike when he actually bites the thing. So with a basket muzzle on, he can try to bite stuff but cannot actually bite or grab – which makes it 100000 times easier for you to ignore and/or redirect, and if there is indeed some type of physiological/neuroendocrine release that motivates the behavior, not being able to get his mouth on things can help change that. It could make it a TON easier for you to manage and train through with far less frustration (for you!).
And of course, probiotics to adjust the gut biome can really help and even meds because a lot of that behavior might be rooted in anxiety. That can come from the gut biome, as we are learning thanks to a ton of new studies coming on the scene.
>While we were on vacation he chased a seagull down the beach for over a mile (recalls which are usually pretty good went out the window) we only got him back because the seagull turned and flew back our way. I have never had a sheltie that went more than 40 feet from me without stoping to wait and make sure I was coming. >
OMG!!! That must have been a heart attack moment.
>Needless to say the other beach visits he was on a biothane long line. You should have seen his gallop! Wow can this boy move.>
Heck yes to the long line, I am glad you had one with you on trip!! And also yay for his speed but I only want him to use it on the agility course!!
Looking at the video: I agree, he read the lines really well! He did not look rusty at all after a couple of weeks off from training.
The most important thing in his line reading is going to be your position going towards 3. When you were too straight to cue 2, he had questions. But when you were clearly heading to 3? GORGEOUS!
Here are specifics:
The blinds are going well! Because he has a great stay (yay!!) you can lead out further so you are several steps past jump 2 and heading to 3 before you release. That way you can start the blind when he is at 1.
At :16 and :32 you started the blind when he was lifting off for 2 so he barked at you 🙂 Yes, it was a little late but your connection was good – what will make it even easier regardless of timing is if, on the blind, you try not to gravitate towards jump 2 at all as that can set a straight line over 2. Use lateral distance to be heading towards jump 3 the whole time. Your parallel line motion will support 1 and 2 – plus it will be good to know if he can find that line with a little bit of distance.
For the FC – because it takes us longer to finish the FC rotation (compared to a blind) leading out as close to 3 as possible is very helpful. At :41 you had the best timing so far in the session of starting the FC (he was landing from 1) but you were heading towards the landing of 2 and didn’t finish the FC til he took off so the bar came down. The bar stayed up at :48 but he was jumping straight over 2, so being closer to 3 will totally help set the line and the turn.
The lead out pushes at 1:13 and 1:32 were the best lines here! Super! As he was jumping 1, you were already showing motion to 3 so he turned beautifully and drove the line. YAY!!!!
>So I need to get back to the jump work I started. I did lower the bars after he kept dropping them. >
I think the first couple of bars were on jump 3 – there was no other part of the sequence so he was looking at you and you were getting ready to reward – and that contributed to the dropped bars. Running past them as if there is one more obstacle and throwing the lotus ball will help.
The other bar was at 2 when the FC showed the straight line and was late – so that was less of a jumping question and more of a line & timing question.
Great job here!
Tracy
That is so fun!!!!! It is very cool to know that he understands his markers 🙂
>The dumb baby allegations might be overstated haha>
Ha! He is definitely NOT dumb – just a smart baby dog learning all the things 🙂
T
Good morning!!
This went great – big thanks to hubby for holding!!
>Bars are 6” high except the first one. Jumps are 6’ apart. >
The 6 foot distance is good now that the toy is moving – mission accomplished in terms of getting more power! Yay! The first bar can stay low but you can move bars 2 and 3 to 8 inches (and you can also slightly angle them to give a different visual). Since she is being held, she is leaning in a little bit so was ticking the 2nd bar when you were running. So for now, stick with walking while dragging that toy – when you’ve got the sit ready to be used here, you can go back to running.
>I underestimated how hard she’d drive into me. This is probably her second most high value reward, only beaten by a flirt pole.>
She loved it!!! That is good to know for when you are in harder environments in the future!
>We did practice some simple tunnels with the toy in my hand so we can eventually work up to using similar toys. This poor little tail is almost completely off the line.>
Perfect – that is an excellent challenge for her: do the obstacles and ignore the reward until you mark and present it. Keeping the obstacle skill simple because the reward is super high value is a great way to get that skill in place.
Nice work here!
Tracy
Hi –
Yes, that is really crappy. It is hard enough to lose one… losing 3 in a short time is really sucky, I am so sorry 🙁
>As smart as Rou seems at times, I swear she still isn’t sure that the TNT delivers treat. >
I am confident she knows that it delivers the treat and I think she just thinks it is ‘fine’ but not great. The ball there will be great 🙂
The smiley face game is going really well! She found the lines almost perfectly. The only little bloopers were when you didn’t look at her and pointed ahead instead: :05 (on the left turn wing after the tunnel) and :23 (going to the tunnel). Pointing ahead turns your shoulders away from the line, so she followed your shoulders in those 2 spots. In all of the other reps, you emphasized eye contact more than you used pointing. And she was lovely! You can spread the wings out a bit more and also extend the tunnel, to add more speed 🙂
Great job here!
Tracy
