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Good morning! He looked really good here, it is a hard skill!!
Looking at the flip-to-tunnel: nice upper body work!! You can have more motion, you were stopping your lower body. You can take another step or two and converge towards the jump more without losing the distance advantage. This will be useful when you add the speed of the sequences š
Not using a lot of motion might be why the tunnel-to-jump was harder – when there was not as much lower body movement (first rep in particular)it was harder to read unless you were in front of the tunnel exit. So you can use more lower body motion (several steps) and convergence towards the flip away as well as the upper body. That will help when you are not wanting to get in front of the tunnel exit, or can’t get in front of it because he is too fast š
And on the tunnel, I bet you can let him start to hear the verbal and the hand cue before he enters (then keep saying it like a dozen times) to help set up the turn on the exit too. When you were positionally way ahead, the timing was not that important and he did well. So I am thinking ahead to the sequences and bigger courses, where you will only maybe be at the center of the tunnel and will want to switch away to the jump, using big layering.
All the balance reps looked great, he was really listening and watching! And there was the one blooper at 1:32 where he didn’t take the tunnel – it was just a blooper, I think you didn’t say tunnel and you were looking ahead, and he was looking at the jump, no worries at all. He was fabulous on the rest of them!
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>Iām looking at the week 3 combos and Iām confused about using a switch away when itās the jump and not the tunnel like in the first sequence. Itās seems like a serp or a serp to a blind would be better there.
You can totally use ‘up close’ handling there, like a German serp-to-blind on the serpy jump. The switch aways are used for when you are too far behind to get a serp or a German there (being way behind is getting common nowadays) and also when you need to use distance in order to get way ahead to the next urgent place on course. So you can do a switch away o nthe jump, then send to the next line and be 5 miles ahead at the next crazy part of the course. Or, picture it with a dog walk over the tunnel (also very common) – the switch away is very beneficial because you can send to all the things without getting caught stuck near the dog walk.
>> Iām not seeing a line being set that tells the dog itās the jump and not the tunnel in that instance.
Do you mean after the switch on the jump? Very subtle line (distance work, you can see CB has a question on the first rep) and emphasis on the verbal jump versus tunnel. When I did want the tunnel, I hung back more on the switch away (didn’t step past the wing at all) to create more turn and of course I was yelling the tunnel verbal LOL!
Let me know if that makes sense!
TracyHi!
>>I do use the same verbal for backside slice & wrap. I am running out of words! I was thinking āwrapā but winder if itās too like ābackā>>
What are you wrap verbals for the front side? I used ‘dig dig dig’ for my backside wrap because I have different front side wrap verbals.
Tracy
Good morning! The front yard agility field looked great! Yay! Big thank you to your wife!!!!!
This session looked really great.
The tunnel sending at the beginning and that was mixed in throughout all looked great. And I am glad you added the big layering, it made the last little sequence super easy (more below).The FC and BC ‘in the gap’ both looked great, he didn’t seem to consider the tunnel at all! The position of the jump here is offset just enough that I don’t think a threadle was needed for the FC exit or BC exit (he only saw the front side when he landed) so if want added challenge, you can move the first jump closer to the start wing so the wing/bar juncture of that first jump intersect the plane of the bar of the 2nd jump, creating more of a front versus back discrimination.
Loved the BCs, they looked so smooth and fast for you both!
The push to the backside was a Goldilocks moment (partially because of the positioning of the jumps.
The cue for the backside at :45 was not quite enough, he needed more physical set of the push line with you running, especially after all those reps of the front side and with him seeing the front side when he landed – definitely a good moment for a reset cookie. At :52 you helped more, and stopped your motion – probably too much cue LOL! The next two reps at :59 and 1:09 were just right š A moment of a clear ‘push’ cue then you continued your motion. Super!!!Threadle slices looked good = my only suggestion is to cue a mild turn before he chooses a takeoff point for the first jump, so he is already turning when you cue the threadle for the 2nd jump. I think a name call is all he would need here. He was looking straight then turning after landing, so a name call can get him to start turning to the correct side of the threadle jump before takeoff. If there was a tighter turn needed there, you can use a stronger directional. The threadle slices also looked really good when you went back to them after the threadle wrap session!
>> Weāve been having some inconsistently in threadle slices and threadle wraps and itās been on my list to work on so I took some time to backchain that piece and do balance reps to help us both figure out how to show the difference. I think the 2 low hands and swirl plus early feet turning in the new direction is helping and I just need to get more consistent.>>
Looking at those threadle wraps: the biggest thing the dogs need to see is deceleration into them. So when he is over the first jump, you are already decelerating and showing your arm cues, starting the verbal (you would have already called his name between the wing and the jump so he is already going into handler focus). Then when he lands, you are delerated and can set the turn with the 2 low hands and rotation that worked well. Trying to do it without the deceleration is what messes things up. I think there is a misconception that we should be doing the threadle wraps without deceleration so I did a little Facebook stalking of the Europeans and the dogs that are highly trained with independent threadle wraps… the handlers all decelerate then set the turn. It is a little more subtle with the more experienced dogs, and there is more distance so I had to watch the handler and not the dog LOL! But the decel is consistently a strong element of the cue. It makes sense partially because it is a great way to differentiate the slice from the wrap for the dog (and we decelerate on every other type of tight collection) and partially because the physically cues require use to not be moving fast in order to clearly show them to the dog.
When you decelerated first to break things down then to add the sequence back in, he read it really well. Then when you went back to the threadle slice – no decel, different handling & word, no questions from Ripley. Yay!
The mini sequences at the end looked great! The right verbal for the tunnel exit seemed to help get a great line, and you gradually added more and more distance/independence to the jump after it. Lovely!
Great job here! Fingers crossed for more good weather ahead!
TracyGood morning!
>>like you said itās like I did 4 days of legs for her, when she had two weeks off. When I look at it that way, yes I did too much!!!>>
OMG yes, leg day 4 days in a row – my quads would be crying LOL!!!!
>>Where I get into trouble with her is my human brain has trouble leaving a sequence/session unsuccessful. Even though I know better!!! I will really try to work on this.>>
Since there is a lot of neuroscience geeking out happening lately, here is a different way to look at it in terms of how we solidify learning (especially with adolescent dogs). The skill does not actually have to be correct in the session, because chances are the brain IS learning it and it will be solidified in the latent learning and sleep phases of learning (learning is complicated and fascinating!). What is important, though, is the pleasant feeling. So lack of frustration is a good one, and also ending before physical fatigue (feel the burn LOL!) set in. And lots of cookies and toys. Then follow it with walking, decompression, etc.
An example: I have had sessions with my Ramen puppy that were just ridiculously bad LOL!!! But I just kept rewarding, and kept them short. But then when I asked for the behavior in a future session or in a new place – BOOM! There is was. An example is the decel games we do in MaxPup – I did maybe 2 sessions and they were not great, especially turning to his weaker side. But whatever, it is fine LOL! And he did a very similar exercise at a puppy seminar yesterday, in a new environment: and the skill was not only in place, but it was the best I have ever seen it – absolutely fast and brilliant and tight, on both sides. WHAT?!?!?!?! Crazy! So clearly he learned it, but not in the traditional operant way we all obsess on.
>> if I think of fatigue as one of the reasons for the knocked bars, I wonāt feel as inclined to go for the successful rep.>>
Correct! And I highly recommend you stop and look at the video after each and every knocked bar. Every.Single.Time. You will see what happened and then you can adjust on the next rep (or you can end the session). And watching the video gives her time to recover in between reps.
>> I need to make a calendar. So hard with my schedule and then the NOLA weather, but Iām going to give it a try>>
Totally understand! It definitely falls into the “do the best you can” category because there is lot going on nowadays š
>>. I was discouraged this session. I wasnāt the best trainer for her. She tried so very hard!!! Iāve worked so hard to get her to try hard for me and her not have frustration explosion. >>
Feeling discouraged is part of the emotional ride with the dogs! That is why a sense of community is important, so you can vent it out, get support and ideas, and not feel isolated.
Stopping myself to watch the video after each rep especially if something went wrong has been an incredible game changer for me (we do it in flyball so why not do it in agility?). Yes, it is a bit of a pain but works out better in the long run.
>>I donāt want to ruin that! She was so perfect with her frustration tolerance here! That was a huge success in itself.>>
YES! That is huge! She kept working like a pro! Yay!
Tracy
Good morning!
The training videos look good!
>>ā handler path to the backside jump & path to tunnel seem the same to me & itās only decel that seems to work, correct?
Yes, same path š That is what makes this exercise slightly evil LOL!!! And ideally, no decel needed either but it is fine to use decel for now to help show him the difference between the layering (tunnel send) and when you want the jump). Eventually the verbals will be strong and Hoke will be more experienced with these discriminations, so he wonāt need as much handling.
On the last several reps, you were moving at the same pace and on the same line and using the verbal to differentiate: that was FABULOUS! And he did really well.
The drive to the tunnel, easy peasy! He seemed to have no questions and went to it very easily even after the jump reps š
On the first cue to the backside, you accelerated a whole lot to get to the backside wing, and you leaned forward as you got thereā¦. All of which cued the tunnel because the physical cues overrode the verbal.
You did get him to the backside with decel and being in position at the wing on the 3rd backside cue, but the doing it as a circle wrap that close to the tunnel, with the sudden motion away from it, and the toy in handā¦ too hard, he hit the wing. That can still be a reset cookie moment because he was pretty much correct, just not perfectly correct, on a really hard skill. I know that most people say to punish the bar (stopping and withholding reinforcement is punishment) but there are a whole long list of reasons why that can make things worse, not better. After more coffee, I can sit down and write all the reasons down š
Question – does your ābackā verbal get used for both the wrap and the slice on the backside? That might be the source of questions on the barā¦ when you did the backside slice at :28, he hit that bar pretty hard because he was collecting for the wrap but then suddenly it was not a wrap and he didnāt have time to adjust his jumping. Since courses have expanded and we canāt always be in position to show perfect handling, I highly recommend 2 separate verbals because they are 2 separate behaviors.
>>Also, I guess I think if I persist with the toy in my hand & learn to be consistent with my ābiteā verbal, he will eventually stop focusing on the toy in my hand. What do you think?>>
Yes, but also no LOL! I think he was looking at the toy over the backside bar because it was clearly the end of the little sequence and there was nothing else to look at, plus he could see you moving it so he was preparing to chase it (which changed the jumping mechanics).
So yes, separately, work on jump jump or baby sequence stuff where you are not trying to train anything other than ākeep the bar up with the toy in my handā – you can be wiggling the toy, etc, and if he doesnāt touch the bar, he can have the toy. But that is separate from backside versus tunnel training, because it will be unclear to him if he nails the handling skill/cue response but then you withhold the toy.
I was going to suggest that you place the reward on the ground instead – but then you did it on the last rep and he was great!! I suggest picking a spot on the ground where he can also see the toy after the tunnel exit, and leave it there for all reps (tunnel and backside). That way he doesnāt look at your hands, he has to work the impulse control of the toy on the ground, and you can focus on the backside – tunnel discrimination. (A Manners Minder would work too!)
Great job building up the skills on the pre-super-combo video (2nd video here :)) He did a great job with the distance rear cross which basically ended up with you layering the tunnel even if it didnāt feel that way. Very nice!!!
And super nice job on the big combo (3rd video!). He was fast and able to get all of the discriminations! As you get more comfy with the switch aways, you can start to cue them sooner: at :03 you cued the switch away as he landed from the jump and you can move up the timing to cue it before he takes off, so he lands already turned.
Then you can add in sending to the tunnel (after the #5 wing wrap) from further away, even layering the #4 jump, to be able to be at the tunnel exit to cue the switch to the jump sooner.
The rear cross on the jump at a distance while you layered the tunnel? š¤©š¤© Gorgeous! And independent! You were in position at the tunnel exit easily to show the backside š And he was brilliant on the ending jumps. SUPER!!!
>>I like this 3 week skill format. The sequences were a ton of fun for the boy that wanted to run fast & be rewarded a lot. >>
That is good to know! I like this format too, especially since we can add in time at the end for the people who are having terrible weather.
>>I have been using the reset cookie for both dogs & getting a great response.
Yay! The more I geek out on the science behind it, the more I realize that it really helps the dogs and we actually get stronger behavior from them – so counterintuitive because it feels like we are ārewarding the wrong behaviorā but actually we are not š
Great job on these!!!
TracyGood morning! Sorry for my under-caffeinated explanations!!
>>When you said āparallel to the tunnelā do you mean parallel to the length of it to stay laterally away or do you mean like perpendicular to the tunnel entrance so no going past the entrance in that plane?
I meant parallel to the length of it, moving down the line as if there was something after the tunnel exit (or after the jump on a layering line).
>> And, for the jump āmove past the outer wingā are you thinking move parallel to the jump on the tunnel sends so that I end up closer to the middle of the jump bar? And on the front side of the jump or the backside?>>
Lordy, I was really under-caffeinated and unclear LOL!!! It is the same line parallel as the line parallel to the length of the tunnel, but the past the wing furthest from the tunnel š Front side of jump š And if I am still unclear (it is early here haha) I will draw pictures LOL!
>>Iām about to drink my coffee so all may become clear,
Reading your questions – it was totally on me due to lack of caffeine-induced clarity lol
>>Right after our session a pretty decent storm and rain hit (like 5 minutes later š). So, Iāll have to check field conditions to see what we can do.>>
The weather on the West Coast has been INSANE! Fingers crossed for Mother Nature to CALM DOWN and let you all have some clear weather!
T
Good morning! Hope you had. good weekend!!
>>It was totally not your feedback.
It would be fine if it was my feedback LOL!!! Clarity is the most important thing : )
>>work on the training for them because I have some sloppy āholesā in my communication system with Frankie because of it.
Yay! And does it help to know that we all have holes? LOL!!! The dogs continue to teach us what they need to know š
>>I was taking a class and got feedback that I was using my āturn towards me ā soft turn cueā when I didnāt really need it. I feel like if there is a 50-50 option for 2 jumps with Frankie, she needs it. >>
The cool thing is that we can apply the verbals differently for each dog. For example, my terrier/BC mix needs more turn cues than my 2 younger dogs. Is it because she doesn’t turn as well (she turns a bit like a truck compared to the noodle turns of the others – that is all structure – but she is probably the fastest dog in the house right now too…) or is it because of holes in training? Or both? I don’t know LOL! and it is fine – I give her directionals to help her in places where the others would not need it.
The best thing to do is to track how she responds to the directionals. It might be possible the soft turn cues are being used perfectly for her – or it might be valid that they are being overused and might get diluted. Frankie will tell us, and we are willing to listen LOL!
>> She knows left & right spins so I think if I work with her on jumps, it will transfer after some practice.
Totally agree! And also – that ‘brake’ arm application is amazing for these types of turns with the powerhouse dogs. Instant turns! Yes, people will tell you to never use an opposite arm, or that it will mess up threadles (it won’t) – it works beautifully when used at your hip-level and it doesn’t dilute other cues. Probably super helpful for the jump situations where she is 50-50 in terms of success.
>>Especially a tunnel discrimination after a contact obstacle.
That is an incredibly popular AKC challenge!
>> I tried to get ahead at the aframe and threadle her into the tunnel entry. Someone suggested that the threadle physical cue (off-arm) was turning my chest to the wrong end of the tunnel. >>
Do you have video? I am curious to see. Dogs cue off of far more than where our chest is pointing in threadle situations. Ideally our upper body rotates to the dog on those tunnel threadles, the outside arm can be VERY useful especially with the littles š Any errors could be caused by something else, which is why it would be good to look at video!
>>I was fairly early in my threadle training so I put it on hold for a while and was just using shoulder pulls and lateral distance.>>
Shoulder pulls can work too, and lateral distance… but they become problematic because they look like a simple post turn through a box (in other words, the same cue when we DON’T want the tunnel, and the dogs might flip away into the tunnel because it looks like the tunnel threadle cue) and judges are clever – we can’t always use lateral distance anymore. So a distinct cue is helpful!
>>This is our #1 miss in trials ā especially if the tunnel is after the Aframe or dogwalk.
Feel free to send me some video, I am curious to see what she is seeing in the off course moments. It will help inform training as we go forward.
>>American Threadle vs European Threadle! Perfect! My brain gets it now. I am going to change my verbal to ācloseā for both & work on teaching the european style to Frankie.
Last summer I was teaching international course work to a group of super experienced, high level handlers and dogs who insisted that they had well-trained threadles (and I believe them!) but yet they could not get their dogs to do the Premier style threadles (American threadles). And as soon as we used the American style cue… boom! They could do it. So my brain finally got it – those are two pretty different behaviors that need to be handled differently for most dogs.
Have a great day!
TracyGood morning!
>>Iām sometimes not sure if a wrap verbal is correct even though I know itās more than a right or left turn, but not technically a wrap. Itās probably dog dependent, but Sprite tends to jump long and early.
It is indeed very dog specific and definitely a bit of a grey area! I look at it in terms of what collection I would like the individual dog to produce to help set up the threadle – in this case, for Sprite, it is closer to a wrap collection. Sprite is very similar to my Hot Sauce in movement and general life philosophy (go big! go fast! Just go go go! hahaha!). And I would definitely use the wrap verbal with Hot Sauce so it is worth a try with Sprite. Things might shift as she gets more experienced, so you might not always want to use it (I don’t use it with my other youngsters, because they are currently in a “WE DO ALL THE TURNS” mode) but time will tell us and Sprite will lead the way. Either way is great as long as the communication is clear.
>> I was pleasantly surprised that she got the threadle and the back side. Yay baby girl listening while the tunnel sirens sang the song of her people!
yes, that was fabulous! She is doing so well!!!!
>>I have Cindiās weather and itās not cooperating. Iāll see if thereās a break in the next few days to try week three. My yard is not usable, but the park drains better. So, we shall see!>>
Take your time, no pressure, we can go til the end of March here because the weather has been terrible!
T
Good morning!
>>I need to review all my verbals and train/re-train some things to have clearer options on the course with her. I had given up some of my verbals (turn towards me & tunnel threadle) because I had gotten some feedback that confused me. But then when I didnāt have those verbals anymore, things fell apart and I just started yelling āhereā to get her attention.>>
Which feedback was confusing? We can totally clarify things! There is no one-size-fits-all in agility, so we can create a system that works for you, Frankie, and Bazinga!
>>I have only trained a very old-style threadle that really only works on two jumps right next to each other. Basically it is lap turn move with the verbal of āthreadleā Not very effective or what we see on course now. >>
I call it the American threadle š because it is perfect for the threadles we see on Premier courses. So keep that skill in your toolbox because it works much better for a lot of dogs than the European style threadle (no rotation) on the Premier threadles. And we can build up the European threadle too, for contexts where that tool is better.
And the verbal can be the same, because the dog’s behavior is the same: just like a sit is a sit, no matter what we are doing. But the handling to support the verbal can be different. Let me know if that makes sense š
>> I really, really would like to work with you in a handling class! I have been learning so much & love your techniques and training philosophy.>>
I am glad you are enjoying it!!! It has been SO FUN watching you and the Bostons (I simply love the breed and your Bostons are particularly amazing :)) Stay tuned for the summer camp handling stuff for Frankie’s level, and also MaxPup 2 and 3 has some serious handling for the youngsters š
Tracy
Good morning!
I sent you a PM but I also want to acknowledge you here as well – thank you for all of your support to your agility friends, you are providing excellent support and excellent training advice š
And it shows in your own training too!!!! This was a really nice session, both of you had big smiles and great teamwork throughout. My little Ramen heard you praising Fever and ran over to watch.On the first part of the video – everything went swimmingly but I think you ended up moving the wing the wrong way around the clock so at the very end (1:59), it was an odd line to the jump for you both.
Thinking of it as a clock ā±ā° with the wing starting at 12 and the big tree past the tunnel exit is 6, and the tree is always 6:
When he is on your left, the wing moves from 12 to 11 to 10 to 9 with you also on that side. It was moving to 1 and 2 here, which is why it felt odd.Then when he is on your right, the wing moves for 12 to 1 to 2, with you on the 1-2-3 oāclock side.
Now clock analogies make sense to this Gen Xāer LOL. But let me know if your brain rejects them and needs a different analogy because your generation had better technology than mine š I think a visual analogy would help improve the field guide too, but I digress.
On the 2nd session here, you started off with a little more handling on your left to help him and he nailed finding the jump. YAY!
SO MANY good dog training moments in this video!!
Then you switched to the other side of the clock (and he pooped in joy lol). Finding the jump on the other side of the tunnel was hard – one thing that I LOVE that he did here was after an early blooper of choosing the tunnel and not the jump, he went and found the jump with no signs of frustration or deflating. I think that speaks volumes in terms of how you are building resilience and rewarding effort. In the past, he would have definitely ordered up and Uber if there was failure on hard stuff!
And when he was getting a little tired – note how he regulated himself, switched to the frizz for more excitement, and you were totally on board so you were able to keep getting good reps.
And I love how you moved the wing back to a slightly easier position towards the end, to cue the jump – he was very successful.
Brilliant! Just great training all around, and a very happy red dog š
You can add more motion to this game, casual strolling down a line parallel to the tunnel (but you can still give him an extra step or two as needed to get the bigger distance sending.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! There is so much to consider when training young dogs š
>>I decided I am over facing her with all the jumping, plus the challenges and itās just too much for her. Iām just getting to much failure in dropped bars>>
It might be a scheduling issue: too much, all at once, not enough time between sessions/trainings to recover physically and mentally. So, what does her weekly training schedule look like? It is entirely possible that there is too much happening and she is just too fatigued to have success – which is why you are seeing an increase in failure as the week goes on.
Bearing in mind that you were gone for a while (so she potentially loses some conditioning for jumping) then this week you had 4 sessions for this class since Feb 28/march 1 through March 4. If she is also doing work for other classes, that can for sure be too much.
>>So my plan going forward is to keep the bars low and NOT increase the height during the session( no matter how tempting it will be). I will just jump her full height on her jump work and sequences that Iām sure she is very capable of. Going to try this route for a little while and see how it goes.>>
Yes, low height on any that involves learning new skills (like this class, with all the verbal processing) and height on jumping skills. But alsoā¦ think of it the same way humans do things at the gym: one day is ālegā day, one day is āarmsā day, etc. They donāt do full body workouts everyday, or every other day – they give the body time to recover. Same can be true for the brain in training too – a day or two between repeating sessions will make a big difference. I suggest you pull out a calendar and schedule what happen on which day, one session/type of training, with days āoffā in between.
For example – I do a contacts/weaves days, then maybe sequencing the next day (not the same day) then maybe a day off, then a flyball on a different day, then back to contacts, etc. And if I have a trial, I schedule a rest day before and after. It might sound like I train less, but it is actually more efficient so progress is faster.
And donāt get me wrongā¦ it is casually scheduled looking at the calendar, maybe one week at a time. My dogs did nothing yesterday, will do flyball today, so tomorrow probably contacts/weaves, Tuesday some sequences, Weds is a day off because I have a crazy day.
And jump work does not have to be full height – and always track the rate of success. If you see 2 failures – change something to get the success back, or end the session and do something else : )
The first video looked really good! Overall, TONS of success!!!!
Her only big question was when she went past the jump after the blind – that is handling error on a really hard skill so still reward that. Reward for effort! And definitely reward after she took her life in her own little paws to try to get it and ended up hitting the wing – ouchie!!What was happening there was that she needs to see big connection on the exit of the blind, down low to her eye. At :31 and :39 there was not a lot of connection which lined up your shoulders and feet to go past the jump. And as an inexperienced dog, she went with the motion.
Then at :51, you added connection and a big step to the jump but it was late, so she tried to adjust last minute and ended up nailing the wing. Ouch!
You gave her the āI am frustrated with youā look when she as trying very very hard to get it right on a skill she doesnāt know that well and needs handling support.
So to get success on that skill, slow down your motion and slow jog through it once or twice – that gives you time to show the big connection to her eyes (which lines up your shoulders to the jump so she will see the cue for it and wonāt need a step to it) and also gives her time to see the big connection before she has to make a decision about the line and jumping. When she has a lightbulb moment, you can add back speed.
On the mini sequences – she read the send to the tunnel really well! And found. The threadle on the jump after it perfectly š I think a ārightā verbal before she enters the tunnel to cue the exit turn will help tighten up that line too.
The only other question was at 1:34 , bar down on the last jump when you decelerated, marked, and threw the ball while she was taking off. O the last rep, you delayed that so the bar was not a problem Even on these short sequences, power through the last jump and donāt mark or throw til she has fully landed.
Speaking of powering š For the mini sequences, you can add more of your motion now, building up to running hard!
2nd video:
I really donāt think the bars are a height issue, I think the bars here were one specific issue and then fatigue later in the session. Here is more:>>Then we had lots of bars and there were only two jumps>>
Since the camera was rolling, I highly recommend looking at the video in slow motion after each dropped bar. Yes, it is a bit more time intensive but totally worth it because you will see what happened and can adjust the next rep (or stop if she looks fatigued).
She consistently drops the last bar when you decelerate, mark, and throw the ball. Doesnāt matter which height š So this is a training question, not a āPromise drops barsā question š
She ticked the last bar on the first rep, then dropped it at :23, :34, 1:02 (and 1:34 on the previous video). So this is something that has to be trained separately, because we donāt want her to nail the discrimination challenges and then tell her she is wrong on a bar question that she doesnāt fully have the answer to.So for the sequences – you can remind yourself to run run run through the last jump as if there is another jump out there (great practice for trials) or even put one more wing out there – and donāt decelerate or mark or throw until she is well past the last jump.
As a separate training skill, you can take one jump and show her a more gentle variation of decelerating, talking, and throwing the toy (just big arm swings to start :)) so that she learns that she will be well-paid to ignore the strange things we handlers do LOL!!! This would definitely start on a very low bar so she can process it the way we want her to. And start it by isolating one thing – like arm flinging as if throwing the toy – rather than all the things (running, decel, mark, arm fling). It all builds back together when practiced separately.
In this video, she had bars on the threadle slice after the tunnel at :33 and :45 – it might be fatigue at this point, she had a lot of reps. It was definite fatigue at 1:01, she didnāt lift her hind end at all.
5 reps of this sequence and 11 reps on the previous video (3 of them were this sequence) so it was too much repetition – leads to physical fatigue and loss of mental focus.
For example: tap your right pinky finger on the table for 90 seconds straight. If you make it the full 90 seconds, your finger is gonna be fatigued! I never make it the full 90 seconds, my brain wanders LOL!!!
I just tried the pinky tapping and lasted 7 seconds lol. No exaggeration, 7 seconds. Ha!
Lots to consider when training young dogs!!! Things are going really well, so donāt get too locked into the spots where she has questions – these are all normal, and all things that all of my dogs do at 2 years old too!! Youāre doing a great job š Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>Iām not sure if you get a notification about responses to older posts or just that we posted in general, so I didnāt know if youād see it.>>
The site is fabulous about sending notifications about each post and response – I am not always fabulous about finding those notifications LOL!! Human error, not tech error. LOL!
The handling challenges went GREAT!
The warms ups with the switch aways were solid. Super nice turns on the tunnel exit too! I think she is ready to see these in the sequences (Super Combos :))
When you ran the challenges:
The initial jump only and layering to the tunnel looked great – look at how independent the tunnel and backside sending are!! Your line of motion was really good with motion but no real handling āhelpā . Perfect! Since this was 100% lovely, you can amp it up by moving faster š Go to jogging then eventually to running š And throw in a couple of moments of running right at the tunnel to help her love that. I am loving her distance and independence on the tunnel lines here, and easily finding the backside even when you were miles away.
You can also add in some threadle slices too, to balance the backside on the jump.Great job on these!! She is definitely ready for more speed on Handling 5 and to start playing with Handling 6 (super combos).
Tracy
Hi!
>> I think itās actually reducing her barking and angst in between reps (does that mean there is operant conditioning at play?),
Probably not operant conditioning at all (that involves choice and consequence), probably more like a neurobiological stabilization of the HPA axis (return to baseline) and some classical conditioning to a happy/relaxed emotional response and frustration reduction. There is some science that repetitive things with the mouth (like chewing) are also relaxing for the dogs.
>> but itās hard to explain the purpose and how itās helping to others. You have given me some language to use to help with that.>>
Perfect! The other option is to say that you are working with a behaviorist (you can cite Dr. Murphy and Bobbie Bhambree) and this is there advice to help reduce the angst and the running off to chase things – and it is working.
It is a MASSIVE head exploder when we realize that most of what we do is not operant at all – I still can barely wrap my dog trainer head around it LOL! But it also explains a whole lot of what happens with dogs (and humans :))
>>I just spent way too long reading about studies in mice and internal state conditioning and operant vs classical learning, lol.
Welcome to going down the rabbit hole of animal studies – fascinating! And there is some amazing info about reinforcement and dopamine. Dr. Murphy did a webinar about when a reward is a reward (and when it is not) and I need to watch it 3 or 4 more times because it was AMAZING and makes my head explode haha
>>Yes!! I love seeing her driving to the tunnel! Itās been such an issue for us in the past.>>
I think the next step of tunnel love conditioning will be to have you SUPER close to it with handling pressure and countermotion, etc. That seems to be where she gets some BIG MAD going too, so you can tweak any of these games to run right to the tunnel and slam on the brakes – and reward early & often š I often place the reward inside the tunnel so the dog only has to step into it to get rewarded, rather than wait for the dog to do the whole thing.
Tracy
Good morning!
I canāt believe how much bad weather you are getting hit with! EWWWWW!!!! It provides good non-running opportunities to train but dang, it would be nice to not have such bad weather. No rush on the training – I will definitely add extra weeks to this class for all the folks who are stuck with horrible weather.
Wowza, he was particularly brilliant in this session – I was really impressed with how well he could go find the tunnel when the jump was miles away and on an angle that made the jump a bit of a backside (on the first side)
Took a minute to āfindā the jump on the new side but then when he sorted it outā¦ no problems. Finding the jump on the other side of the tunnel was HARD for sure but look at him processing the verbal!!!! The āoutā definitely helped and he then was fine when you faded the arm cue. You can probably fade the āoutā verbal too as he gains more experience.
Since it looks like the mud will be around for a while, you can stick with this challenge for now – and add a line of motion. You were really good here about having your position and movement look really the same for each cue – so now you can draw a line in the mud š that you can meander along as you are cuing the jump or tunnel. That way you can add the challenge of āprocess the verbal while I am movingā. The line should be just parallel to the tunnel and ideally you can move just past the outer wing of the jump. Let know if that makes sense or if I need more coffee š
Then when the field conditions are better, we can go back to the handling. I figure if we keep things open here til the end of March, everyone can hopefully have time to play while avoiding the bad weather.
Great job here!
Tracy
