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Hi! Great questions here!
>> I believe you said that you don’t ask for a stay in the first NFC trial you enter. >>
That is correct! Stays are HARD and so are weaves and contacts… so the first NFC experience is all about engagement and jumps/tunnels, and no stays or weaves or contacts (although I will sometimes do NFC and just do stay games and no other sequences). So if I am going to do a sequence and I don’t want to do a stay, I will gently hold the dog’s collar and just do a ready-set-go type of send. That way the dog has clear permission to start but there is no confusion about a stay. Plus, I want the ring experience to be super positive and engaging, so I don’t want to risk any issues with criteria. If I ask for a stay and he doesn’t stay… do I ignore it in favor of keeping it a positive experience? Or do I tell him he is wrong, and start to build in frustration/failure? I simply do not want that conundrum early on in the dog’s career.
>>What is your progression for introducing that? >>
It totally depends on the dog. If the dog seems comfy in the trial environment, then I might ask for a stay early on in my NFC progression. If the dog is NOT comfy? Nope, no stays – just fast and fun and run run run 🙂 And if I do ask for a stay, my mission is to release the dog before he breaks. So I will release the dog 50% sooner than I would in practice, to set up success. And I reward a TON of stays during NFC runs. And separately from trials, I work a lot of high arousal stays so the dog is prepared before I ask for it at trials. (The same goes for contacts & weaves)
>>You don’t feel as though you’ve taught your dog that it isn’t required in a trial?>>
Not at all! I didn’t ask for it, so there is no discussion with the dog about whether it is required or not. And a whole lot less pressure & stress at the beginning of their career. If they have any easy time transitioning to the ring, then I can ask for the stay pretty early on. Think of it as the same with dog walk criteria. Yes, I would like the dog to hit criteria every single time. But if I start the dog in NFC jumpers, then I am not asking for the dog walk 🙂 Or if I do standard, I don’t need to ask the dog for the dog walk. The contact criteria is still required, but I haven’t asked for it. That does not diminish the strength of the behavior, and in fact it strengthens it by getting the dog comfortable in the environment before asking for the more difficult skills.
>>How do you expose your dog to a multi-ring situation? I see lots of trials that are run indoors that have only one ring. I’m in California – we don’t have anything indoors (everything is outside) so there maybe multiple rings running at one time.>>
A lot of the games we play here will help the dog prepare! And I bring those games ringside (when they are ready) so the dogs are prepared to ignore other dogs running. And in classes, I like to have other dogs out and other people doing stuff while my dogs are running so there is a lot of prep for the dogs ignoring other dogs and people running around.
>>My videos showed I was not connected to her on the first run🤪, so she took some liberties since I likely confused the heck out of her.>>
Well that is really interesting and I am glad you video’d the run! Lack of connection = lack of info, so dogs get stressed. And she ended up in the Fawn end of the F responses… and visited people. So if you disconnect on course, no worries, it happens. But to help her out, keep running and rewarding so she doesn’t think that the error was hers. We have games coming to help her cope with handler disconnection (because we handlers disconnect a LOT haha)
Keep me posted!
TracyHi!
>>When Vinny sees and hears agility his total focus goes to the ring and he doesn’t hear me or see me. He won’t tug or take food.>>
One way to make headway here is that we can get his pattern games and volume dial game really solid, then gradually incorporate the sounds of agility by using recordings of it!
>> He can watch Marky do agility at home now without wigging out.
Can he watch Marky run around with a toy, perhaps, and eat treats or play tug?
>> When we get to the front of the building he starts to get excited and I start to lose some focus. >>
That is excellent progress! There is not a ton of room between the door and the ring, so being right outside the front door is actually pretty close. And it is a good spot to add some of these games. When you are working through your progression there, what games/cues are you using? What works well? Are you using food or toy (let me know if he seems to have a preference in that environment, because all games can be. tweaked to fit the dog’s preference of motivator :))
>>I would say most of the time he has held his start line but he’s pushing to leave and may start to creep a little.>>
You can maintain the stay by releasing him 50% sooner than you would release him at home, so ideally it is before he creeps 🙂 But if he is creeping forward immediately, we would isolate the stay during NFC/FEO runs in a different way such as NOT asking for it at the beginning of the run (starting from a gentle collar hold and send) and then after a few obstacles, working a stay for reinforcement in the middle of the ring.
>>He is easy to get a leash on and leave the ring when done.>
Excellent!!!
>> I’ve started to crate him upstairs in a wire crate 🙂 covered. The more hyped the dog in the ring is the more hyped he is.>>
Is he reacting to the dog in the ring, while he is in the crate? If so… definitely re-think crating him in the building as it is not going to help your cause 🙂 If not? Super!!! Yay!
>>I want to develop some kind of routine ringside that will hold his attention. I’ve done the 3 exercises in the first lesson and I also have him sit and tap my right then left hand back and forth for treats.>>
So he has the pattern games and volume dial in his toolbox? Cool! The next step would be to check his latency at home, and do the next steps of the framework which involves assessing the environment with the patterns by adding distractions (at home first).
>> I entered him on Nov 5th for his first AKC trial just to get some ring practice so will need a plan. It will be a standard class which will be his first time on contacts in the ring. I don’t know if I can FEO in that class but I will not be running to try and Q.>>
You cannot do FEO in AKC standard classes (it is only allowed in T2B and FAST 🙁 ) Can you switch your entry to T2B or FAST, so you can train on the contacts? If it is his first time on contact in the ring, you definitely want to do it FEO so you can help him out with reinforcement!
Tracy
Good morning!
Starting without you was hilarious! And very nice LOL!!He did a great job finding the jump here! Nice job staying closer to the jump and rotating your upper body.
>>I do think I could’ve keep my cue arm farther back and chest faced more towards the jump. >>
Yes, you can swing your arm back more and look back at your hand, that can open up your shoulders even more.
He had some questions here – the questions had to do with the approach to the jump. You sent him around the wing the wrong direction (away from the jump then did a FC) so his approach to the jump was more of a push through to the backside than a serp. That added an additional change of direction which made it more challenging. It will be easier to send him around the outside of the wing so he exits facing the serp jump (and no need to do a FC on the wing to push him to it).
Find the Jump looked great! He seemed to have no trouble finding the jump 🙂 You can add more lateral distance now, so you are progressively further and further from the jump but still supporting the line with motion and verbals. You can add more connection as well – this camera was in a great position because we can see what he sees for connection. As you gt further rom the jump, turn your eyes back to him more and point your dog-side arm back & down to him so that he can see your eyes and the center of your chest more (that will totally show the line to the jump as you move).
The diamond is a beast of a game – I remember how hard it was with the baby dogs when I filmed it, and it is hard now that I am doing it with my whippet baby LOL!
You were really emphasizing the blind cross mechanics hereat the beginning and that is the most important part. The mechanics looked great and he seemed to have no trouble seeing the side change.
>>And again I think my arm back for connection could be stronger.
I don’t think it needed to be strong – you were very connected and he seemed to know where to be at all times.
You were a little late at first with the blinds but no worries – as you were getting comfy with the mechanics, you started getting earlier and earlier like at 1:20 and 1:44. As he exits the tunnel, you can be cuing the wing and when he is maybe just past halfway to it, you can start the blind. As long as you keep moving towards the wing, he should commit and then the blind will be finished before he arrives at the wing. It might take some experimenting with how early you can start the blind, but it will get earlier and earlier as he gets more experienced.
The race track looked great! Wheeeee!!! Because of his size, you probably don’t need the left verbals here – it is more of a Go for the little guy. I was using the left and right for my big dog because he actually needed to collect to turn 🙂 but the littles can do the race track in full on extension.
Great job on these! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>Pattern games are easy peasy in the living room.
Yes, they look terrific here! Low latency and easy peasy.
>>We’ve done these periodically. But, it sounds like they should be revisited often? >>
Yes – we want to revisit a lot in easy environments for two reasons:
– to keep the games and framework incredibly recognizable
– to keep the games neutralized (NOT paired with high arousal contexts only so we don’t accidentally use pattern games to trigger over-arousal :))>>I’ll add a leash next time,
Yes please 🙂 And if that is no problem, we can add a neutral distraction to advance the framework to include an understanding of how to assess the environment and re-engage with you. Then we start to combine some things to work on that physiological bounce-back.
>>but up and down is easier in class or trial locations. I could do back and forth by my set up.
It is a little easier, but the games have different functions so both need to be brought into the class or trial environment. The back and forth can be done a little further from the ring or in different parts of the environment – and it is important for environmental assessment and also because a lot of our sporty dogs need to MOVE. And back and forth provides that outlet as well. Up and down is great for tighter spaces and also for the co-regulation and reset that changing the plane of our heads provides.
>>Isn’t engaged chill the up and down game, but slower?
That is one part of it – especially for the dogs that have zero natural chill when they are aroused. There are a variety of ways to achieve it and we start looking at it in the 2nd games package. The dogs need to be able to chill because we simply cannot maintain this level of engagement and interaction and “work” from the crate to the ring… because you and the dog will be exhausted! Chill is very helpful 🙂
Great job here!
TracyGreat job here Annalise!!!!
>>Prytania hasn’t sequenced in quite awhile.>>
Well, she certainly didn’t seem rusty at all 🙂 A little bit of time off can actually cement the learning and the videos here look terrific.
>>Her entry is for Dec 2-3. One feo each day, unfortunately akc lol!>>
As we get closer, we will formulate a plan because she will be about 15 months old and a full-on teenager LOL!!
Looking at the videos:
Super nice work with the pattern game here!! She looks so grown up now!
This was an excellent start – note how it took Prytania a little longer to re-engage with you when the cookie was tossed out near the chair and pool… that is environment is harder than when you tossed the treat closer to the camera. So for the next session, do the exact same thing you did here and see if she an re-engage faster. You don’t need to change anything at all, we are just cementing the game for her 🙂And in a different place (like indoors) you can add the up and down game too!
Sequence 1: Great connection on all of these!
Nice opening on the first run! Remember that you can talk to her and use her verbals – it sounded quiet on that first run 🙂Excellent adjustment between runs 1 and 2: On run 1 at :07, your handling line did push her to the backside of 5. On the second run at :21, you gave a stronger turn cue and she got to the correct side of 5 nicely! Yay! You can start that turn cue after she lands at 3 so she can turn before takeoff – you were a little late and did it as she was taking off for 4 so she turned after landing.
On the last run you had clearer louder verbals and your cue for the turn at 4 was even earlier, so her turn was really smooth. Excellent!
Seq 2:
This is a tricky opening! Only 1 suggestion to tweak – when you release her from the start line, stay connected like you did but run towards 3. Let her find that #2 jump on her own and when you see hr looking at it, you can start the BC or FC. On these reps, you were running towards the center of the bar of 2 (towards the tunnel) which confused her at first and she was not sure where to be. She figured it out by the last rep, but the more you run towards 3, the easier it will be for both of you 🙂And the other benefit is that you will be further ahead on the bigger courses, which is important because she is fast and keeps getting faster!!!
The rest looked terrific! Her turn at 3 is lovely and then she drove the line to the tunnel brilliantly. And your connection looks great!
Seq 3:
Great job here too! It looks like her stay is really strong, so you can line her up on an angle at 1 so she is jumping it as a slice, and lands facing 2 without having to keep turning much. That will also allow you to not have. To move towards 1 as much 🙂For the rear cross on the first rep, you can go closer to 3 and start the acceleration from there, so as she is jumping 4 she is getting ahead of you which makes showing the RC line easier. You definitely had more acceleration on the 2nd rep and she got the rear! Yay!! I love your enthusiasm when she gets it right!
The blinds looked fantastic 🙂 You had an excellent, connected send to jump 3 and you stayed connected while driving a great line to the blind. SUPER!! She had so much speed that she was a little wide between the 5 jump and the tunnel, but I am not concerned about that at all – when the bars get higher, it will be easier for her and I love her power right now!
>> All this stuff is so good, I think I’m Going to rework promise on it all! She’s still a work in progress with arousal, but man is she doing Amazing progress!>>
I do arousal work with my adult dogs all the time – it helps them through all life stages! And it is fun 🙂
>>I can stand in a ring line up!!!Wow that is so important!!!! YAY!!!!
Great job here 🙂
Tracy
Good morning!
How did class go with the crate and more chill time (hopefully)?
>>Lotus balls are tough with her beard….the velco gets stuck and attaches like an octopus. I do have treat huggers and can try those out instead. How would you suggest to use those….throw as a reward after good behavior?>>
Ah yes, good point about her Schnauzer beard. So try the treat huggers – yes, you can throw them as a reward after a good behavior, or you can tie it to a light line and drag it around like a tug toy for her to chase to get her excited and engaged (you can use it in the Volume Dial game as a toy!) At first you can have the food in it of course, and as she learns to love it we will get the food out of it (and reward later) so you can ideally use it as a toy in the FEO/NFC environment.
Keep me posted!
TracyGood morning!
>>She’s not doing “really well”. She’s the same as many of those dogs and their handlers that were crucified on Facebook tonight.>>
YIKES!! Totally agree that there are awful things happening on Facebook. My biggest piece of advice? GET OFF FACEBOOK. Facebook is CUCKOO LAND. I tell all of the owners/handlers of adolescent dogs to take a social media break because FB will really mess with your mind.
And it is a particularly bad time on Facebook because of that horrible situation from last weekend. It is NOT a reflection on you or your amazing girlie. She is right on track and you are doing all the right things with her (and also taking it slowly so she can get through adolescence). The dog attack that occurred is really awful for everyone involved but the social media mob effect is twice as awful – the owner of the dog is getting death threats. INSANITY!!! Get off Facebook til this mob effect goes away and the mob moves onto something else.
>> I didn’t get to listen to all of the zoom tonight, but will listen as soon as the recording is available. She is a dog that fawns and can be very environmentally aware, and, sensitive. We work on that, too, of course. >>
The recording is posted! Sounds like she fawns, which is fine 🙂 I guess the 7th “F” we should add is “Fine” LOL!! It is just info. And she is communicating her questions about the environment – also fine and I welcome it! And as a hunting dog, she is supposed to be environmentally aware and sensitive. So we will help her better understand the environment and set her (and you) up for success.
And in the meantime, hang out here in this safe space where we will support you and stay away from the ugliness happening on social media.
Tracy
Perfect! Because the environment will be harder (probably), try to make whatever you do in the ring easier than what you think she can do . For example, if you think the environment will be 50% harder, make everything 50% easier for her 🙂 and bring in several of her favorite toys. We want her to have the BEST time in the ring 🙂 And keep me posted!!
Tracy
Hello! Great to see you here!
And keep me posted about how she is feeling about the spay… hormones of ALL sorts can really get in the way of easy living (I can totally relate!). It sounds like she is doing much better and that makes me very happy!!! I have know plenty of BC girls who really struggle with hormones. There are other things we can do, of course, so we can keep figuring out ways to help her be the happy confident girlie that we know is inside her.
I am looking forward to seeing you and Caper in action!
Tracy
Good morning!
>> After tonight’s class I understand the sniffing and wandering about is over arousal.
Yes – after watching the 2 videos, the environment is REALLY hard! So she has some struggles happening.
>>What do you think of my new plan: Carry her in. Set her down. Hold her collar. Point to the first jump. Use our Ready, Set routine, then leave the start line together for only the first couple of obstacles.>>
Eventually, yes! But not yet. There is a lot of pressure on the start line for all of the dogs already, and you bending over, holding her collar, pointing to the jump… it is a lot and I don’t want to ask for that quite yet.
Doing a few obstacles in a non-FEO run is much later down the progression for trialing. What reinforcement does she like? Ideally we get her happy in the ring with FEO runs with a reinforcement – might take some creativity if she is a foodie but we can do it 🙂
>> Then celebrate on our way to the cookie gate! Just as long as we’re leaving TOGETHER it’s a win.
She will definitely love going to the cookies but it is a little too soon to ask her for this, based on the info she is giving you. We don’t want to create neural pathways of getting to the exit as fast as possible 🙂 So let’s put more tools in her toolbox because asking her to trial again. It will be fun for you both!
>> I can’t wait to start the pattern games as well. I’m really pumped!>>
Yay! Me too! She is so fun and I love Rat Terriers – my dearly departed Rebound was a Rat Terrier (he passed away at age 16) and my Hot Sauce is part Rat Terrier!
Keep me posted!
TracyWell it is true 🙂 The glass was MORE than half full on this one and the session had the enormous win of you doing excellent problem-solving in the moment without letting him get frustrated. That is HUGE and so important. And I bet latent learning helps you out and he comes into the next session with a better understanding 🙂
T
Hi!
Rear crosses are HARD indeed, I can relate!
>>Glad I was rewarding her every time because I kept thinking I was doing it right but then watched the video and nope.>>
You were excellent! And that also makes your life harder LOL! She is pretty literal at this age so when you reward someplace, she is likely going to go there again/do the same behavior on the next rep. Good girl!
That happened on the first video: the first RC at :08 was really good! You were too early on the next one at :14 (your feet were pointing to the backside line the whole time and pushed her off) so on the next reps, she decided that was the spot before even getting input from you (she exited the tunnel, heading to the backside).
Then you did exactly what I would have suggested – got her back on the straight line with a GO rep, then did a good RC rep. Super!!!
So if you end up pushing her off the line by accident, or when you do deliberately cue the backside wrap – yes, reward her like you did, then do a straight line GO on the next rep to help her NOT immediately go back to where she was last reinforced.On the 2nd video, the RCs were much harder for her and I think 2 things were happening:
– the jump was too close to the tunnel, so she had to make a takeoff decision at the tunnel exit. So even when you were getting right on her tail with the RC info (like you did at 1:00, 1:12, and the rest of the reps), it was too late because the distance was a short one-stride for her and she is very fast 🙂
Easy fix: give her and you 20 feet or more between the tunnel exit and the jump so you can show the info. And put a line on the ground from the center of the side of the tunnel next to you to the center of the bar, so you have a visual path to run to get the RCs.– for whatever reason, she was having trouble switching from her left lead to her right lead to make the RC here. Not sure why it was so hard for her today, but that is normal for adolescent dogs LOL!
Since she has a great stay, you can play this game with her:
I used this game to teach my Hot Sauce how to turn to her weaker side (she is turning to her left at the beginning her which is hear weaker side). This was her first session. It isolates and slows the RC diagonal cue to the point where the pup can have a lightbulb moment and start to predict that the pressure means to turn the new direction. I used a clicker here to really isolate it but you can use verbal markers.
Here is the step by step how-to of this game – it is easy to do indoors and I think it will help you both get the cues rolling!
The most difficult part of this type of rear cross is teaching the pup to turn the correct direction (away from where he last saw the handler) rather than spin the wrong way (back towards where the handler was coming from). Here are the steps to teaching the turn:
● Start with a rousing game of tug!
● Ask the pup for a sit-stay at your left side. Be sure to reinforce throughout this game for holding the sit stay – the puppy is allowed to move her head, but is not allowed to move her feet or turn her body until you release her. Break it down as much as needed to help build a solid stay! Here are 2 ways to reinforce the stay for this game after stepping back:
○ You can return to the pup to hand deliver the reward
○ You can click and release the dog to a thrown reward
● Take one or two steps back, so you are parallel to or just past the pup’s tail. Be sure to reward the pup for holding the sit, either by returning to her or click/releasing her to a thrown reward.
● Cut behind the puppy so she is now on your right side, and step up to her shoulder. When she turns her head to face the side you are now on, reward her by either giving her a treat in position or releasing and throwing a treat or playing tug.
Because the pup will anticipate the rear cross, it is important that sometimes you step back but not behind her – in these cases, if she continues to look at you without turning her head the new direction, you can either step forward and give her a treat, or release her to come to you for the treat or to play tug.
Be sure to repeat this on both sides of the puppy!Great job here! Let the know what you think!
TracyPoor Sassy! It makes me mad and sad to hear she got chased like that 🙁 We will TOTALLY help her out! The pattern games are your first step, these will be most important for now. And also start the volume dial game! All of those small games will come together to help her feel happy again 🙂
Tracy
Hello and welcome!!! It sounds like she is doing really well!
I am excited for the match! Is it an informal match? Ideally you would go in, using low jump heights, and run short little sequences with a toy 🙂 The environment is different so you’ll want everything else to be easier. Let me know what you think!
Tracy
