Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Hi!
This is going well!
You were great about paying close attention to the timing and markers and tosses of the treats, making them all very distinct. He seemed perfectly happy to sit until you tossed the treat LOL!!! Good boy!!!So for the next session, you can start to delay the click to build up some duration, and also add in a tiny bit of walking away. Keep going with your super clear catch-then-toss! And I think you will be able to fade the click pretty soon too and just use your reward markers.
One thing to add in the early stages is the toy, so he gets into the mode of doing sits and stays while a more stimulating motivator (toy toy!) is present 🙂
Great job!!!
TracyHi!
>>I originally wanted to have her working while Kaladin was lying on the bed, but his presence made it too hard for her to tug at the beginning so he got a kong in the kitchen instead.>>
I can see how that would be too hard – ignoring brother AND proprioception? Hard!!
You can start with something even easier like just a hand touch for a cookie while he is on his bed.This session ended up being more about “yes, you can tug while The Thing is still visible”. The look on her face at approx :58 when you put the thing on the table and asked for tugging was hilarious! I loved your energy of running to the other side of the room and she found it irresistible, so came over to tug. YAY!!!!!
Then it was easy to get her to go back to the work. Scrunching to put her back feet into the box was hard – is she able to put all 4 feet into something slightly larger? If so, you can warm up the concept with that larger object at the beginning of the session so when she has 4-feet-in-the-thing on her mind, you can switch to this one and see if she can scrunch herself up to get into it.
The proprioception element was really hard here so at the end, she had trouble bridging into the tugging. You presented the toy differently at the end by presenting it as you moved to the new spot. You can either present it like you did at the mid-point by running to the new spot and then presenting the toy. Or, you can use a bridge like the mat, so she can get on it while you clear the box out of the way, then move to the new spot, then release her to join you to tug.
>>How about the box lined with a yoga mat from Jordan’s class so she has to stride over the lip to get in and out?>>
Yes! That should work well. You can have a yoga mat on both sides and have it upside down at first -stepping up on it to stride across is a good starting point, and probably easier than striding through it by getting in and out. When she is happy to stride across the top of it, then you can turn it over and have her step into it as she strides through.
Great job here!
TracyHi!
Holy wow she is a barrel wrapping BEAST!! So fast!!! She was definitely pumped up but she still maintained excellent commitment!
On the regular rocking horses where you are sending her forward to the barrels: spread out the barrels so she has more room to run run run. I am thinking maybe 12 feet between them, then onwards to 15 feet!
The rotated sending is going amazingly well too! She particularly loved it when you did 2 barrels in a row, because there was more motion even though you had a nice timely rotation to send her back behind you. So spread the barrels out for that game too – yes, you will be running more because you will want to send, run, decel, rotate and send, but she will love it and I am confident she will do well!
For the contact session –
>>For the contact trainer I will switch to a clicker I think since her little feet are so quick.>>
You can add a clicker, but that might cause her to look at you (because clicks tend to draw their attention up to us, so we have to make reward placement really obvious). Since she seems to have the idea of “do a thing in the box” and she wants to go fast, so let’s add the next step: put a bowl about 8 feet past the box on each side of it, so she can start at one bowl, go through the box, then you toss a treat into the next bowl (and so on).
Be sure that you stare at the box (especially as you start moving) and say “get it” (or click, but I think get it will be more effective because it will help indicate that she should look ahead at not at you) when you see her back feet in the box. Watching her cute self makes it really hard to see what her feet are doing, but staring at the box makes it much easier 🙂
Parallel path to a jump – easy peasy for her! Not surprising at all, she is great with figuring out these little puzzles and she was great with this on the prop. Yay! You can revisit this and gradually add more lateral distance to help her understand to stay on her line even when you are not right there.
She was happy to go across the mini teeter! Yay! When running across it, always have her start on the end that is touching the ground. If she jumps up on the end in the air, she has to stop and shift her weight before proceeding across the board, which will slow down her run across the board.
Also, since she will be a 4on dog, you can add a target right at the end of the board so she knows to stop at the very edge of the board. For my small 4on dogs, I have used super fancy targets (not!) like a strip of duct tape at the end (across the last inch of the board) for a foot target, or a spoon taped to the underside of the board so it sticks out a little and the dogs can target it with their nose while their feet stay on the end of the board.
Great job here!!
TracyHi!
I will look around for nice flyball people to send you to!The ‘away’ looks awesome! She has the concept of lead-changing away from you to pick tip a new line (the prop 😁). And she was quite perfect on all the balance reps too! Super! We don’t build on this until MaxPup 2 so you can let the behavior “rest” for now.
>She had a hard time dropping her toy during our play break, which is unusual for her. >>
It looks like the trouble with the out here was caused by a conflicting indicator: the verbal said out but you were pulling up on the toy when you said it, which cues the tug to continue. So the physical cue overrode the verbal cue.
Try relaxing the toy and lowering your arm position to see if she can let go of it (and trading for a cookie is great either way).
It cracks me up that she still loves to be dragged around by the toy like a Swiffer LOL!!
>>Do you think I should have ended the session there? Or was it ok that I tried a couple more reps after?>>
It was perfectly ok! Her behavior was very successful after it. I don’t *think* it was an overarousal question from her, but even if it was – that is GREAT to work through rather than just stop the session. If she was not able to function after it, you can do an in-session decompression (quick snuffle mat moment or let her chew on the toy for a bit) then carry on and see how she does.
Great job!!
TracyHi!
About the start line: as you work on getting her happy with it in a new environment, definitely teach that behind-the-back start because it is fun and easy!!
Sounds like the first seminar day went really well!!
On the 2nd day – it is entirely possible that her brain and body was depleted from the first day that she just couldn’t do a 2nd day. That’s why you saw the stress response (especially if the topic was harder).
>>[ So, I stopped running her. Right, wrong, or indifferent, I used our last “turn” to work her pattern games inside the ring on leash.>>>
Good for you! That was 10000% the right thing to do.
>> I hope I didn’t destroy all of the progress we’ve made.>>
Nope, you didn’t destroy anything and in fact, you helped her end on a good note! Yay!!!!
Tracy
Hi! This all sounds like a great plan. Play it run-by-run… if you start with FEO and he seems to be his normal happy self, then the next run can be for real. If he struggles with FEO, then do another FEO run. Same with day two: start FEO and then make decisions based on how that goes. Keep me posted!
TracyHi!
This is perfect indoor game when the weather is poopy!
Your second rep made all the correct adjustments based on what was hard about the first rep 🙂 You start the blind a lot sooner (as soon as he started coming towards you, it was great timing) and the pivot was slower so he could maintain the connection and stay on the correct side. Super!!!The blind cross timing was super on all of the reps after that one, too! And some of the pivots were also slower. Some were a little too fast (like at :35) so he ended up doing a blind because that is what your shoulders were telling him. So keep the pivots a little slower so he can stay on the correct side.
And I think he really liked the string cheese 🙂
Great job here! If the weather clears up, take it outside so he has more room to run 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
I hope you had a great weekend! It looked like a super fun event!
>It went well so I transitioned to the ground. I feel like I totally have something to work with now!!>>
Perfect!!! And I am confident you will have great start lines and a great running dog walk.
On the video: She is definitely figuring out the stay position. Yay! He also does best when you give a little hand signal with the sit cue (seems to really be clear for her). Only one suggestion as you continue to build up the duration:
Try to clarify the markers/rewards: you will want to separate motion from the reward toss and marker – so you can either be perfectly still and say get it and *then* move your hand to toss it, or you can be moving the whole time and say the marker and then toss back as you moving forward (movement is fine as long as it doesn’t all happen at the same time as tossing the treat or releasing her forward).And really good session on the mat here! Your ‘get it’ markers can now be delayed ever so slightly until you see her back feet on the mat (then mark and toss it). Fingers crossed for the rain to hold off! And you can also attach the mat to something a little elevated (maybe an inch off the ground) so she has to step up all 4 of her feet onto it – better proprioception for her, and easier for you to see her back feet 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>And she is definitely all about “The Thing” and stopping to tug is just preventing her from doing her thing. >>
Yep, she loves doing The Thing and gets The Big Madz when prevented from doing it. But because we will want stimulus control and all of those other fancy things, we need to gently break the news to her that sometimes what she thinks is The Thing is not actually the thing. LOL!!
>So if I keep asking for the tug away from the Thing and then creep it closer I’m hoping/assuming we’ll be able to convince her that tugging can be part of the Thing too.>>
Yes – just do it really gradually so it eventually all gets folded in and she barely notices 🙂
>>(before we realized how much that broke her current set of rules)>>
I think she is doing a very. Good job of training us to her rules LOL!!
On the strike a pose video – she was very good sitting on her mat while you got ready! And it seems like the release and the lifting of the mat is a cue for her that you are starting the game. She seemed totally on board with that!
The food bowl as a target was a good challenge but not overwhelming and she figured it out. She was doing the exactly right thing on the left turns by fading out the touching of the hand and doing the in-then-out behavior – yay!>>Was pretty impressed with how well she did her first time going to the right. >>
Yes! She was great in both directions here! You can say your cookie cue as soon as she hits the hand on the right turns (she was hitting then staying there) so you can say “get it” as she hits the hand and then drop the cookie in.
It would be interesting to see how she feels about tugging in the room after a cookie session: you can transition into it by putting the mat back out so she gets on it, then grab a toy and put the treats away (and put away any training props so the toy becomes the THING to do) and see if she will play.
On the 2nd video –
>>And I see I’m a bit of a fashion disaster here in my post work even comfier clothes.>>
Definitely not a fashion disaster! It looks like true winter comfy clothes!!!
She did really well here and was moving really quickly too. Your reward throws were good and she was looking pretty straight (that is HARD to get at this level of the game!!) To maintain the good looking ahead, you can put an empty food bowl about 8 or 10 feet from each side of the plank, and the cookies will get thrown into the bowls in each direction.
>>Since she’s not flailing as she trots/lopes across it, they hold together nicely. >>
Herm movement looks really confident and balanced for such a young dog!
>>Were you thinking of something a bit more elevated for her?>>
This setup is perfect for maybe one more session (the banana line where you are on a straight line that is lateral and she has to banana out to the plank). Then the next session after that would be great to have the plank a little more elevated to add more challenge.
>>I did the up & down pattern game with both Lift & Kaladin this morning – they give it 4 paws up>>
Super! It is a great tool for the toolbox!!!
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
He is hitting the serp hand beautifully! And you are holding the hand in the ext right position for him to hit it without having to jump up at all.Adding the jump went really well! No problem at all!!
The reward placement when you had the jump in was perfect – you rewarded from the other hand while drawing him into the turn in front of you, and then tossed another treat away to start the next rep. I think he is ready for you to add an empty food bowl on the ground as a reward target, and then you can drop a treat into after he touches the serp hand.
The only other thing to add in is pointing your feet to the reward hand (because that is the direction you will be moving when we add motion).
Great job here!!
TracyHi!
>>just a short trail walk because it was COLD and WINDY AF. She had a grand old time. Me, not so much lol.>>
Totally same here! I like to hide in the house in this weather LOL!
>>So, how can I differentiate between independent play behavior (not sure of a better way to phrase it) and decompression? >>
There is probably no black and whit away to do it – the play and the decompression are all linked.
>>how can I know that she’s playing vs needs a decompression moment? >>
Could be both! Play like that can be decompression, or just having a grand time. Either way is great, imo 🙂 The more practice she gets with playing and bringing the toy back when she is ready, the more you will see her bring it back when she wants to do more (or not bring it back when things are hard and she needs a moment to decompress).
>>it seems murky deciphering what is self-elected decompression and what is her playing or not understanding the game.>>
Murky is a great word, because there are no hard and fast lines that can separate one from the other – all of the behavioral functions swirl together. You can keep track of things to get better insight: when in the session does she take the toy away to play? Early, when she is very stimulated? Later, maybe fatigued? After a failure or two? Or after a few reps of a new skill, even though there is no failure? Tracking it will help you see what the patterns are, which will give you better insight into why she takes the toy sometimes and sometimes brings it back.
And no worries if you don’t totally know yet. As long as decompression and agency is built into your training, she is going to do really well.
Strike a pose with the cookies is looking great! And she is also doing really well with the toy too 🙂 Your shoulder position looked great! And she is doing the in-then-out perfectly 🙂 Yay!
>>She seems to be waiting for me to animate the toy before grabbing it. Makes sense that whippet would find a dead toy less interesting than a moving one.>>
Yes, I totally see what you mean. She is doing the in-then-out behavior and she really responds to your energetic marker. So as long as she turns to the toy before you move, you can then move the toy to get her more engaged. You can also have the toy placed further away on the line so she runs to it more (she might like that too!)
>>So I totally understand the importance of taking breaks and latent learning. BUT I also feel like if I take a day off every couple of days and only do one session a day, I will become buried in class material. Plus, she seems to like to really like to do the things and she does need mental stimulation. >>
Trying to balance training time for puppies is SO HARD!!! Totally relatable.
>>Would you say that one session a day and taking a day off every couple days should be my default training schedule or should I base it on what she shows me?>>
A little of both, perhaps? If your daily schedule permits it, maybe a morning session then an evening session. And every couple of days, a day no training (especially if she has had a busy day, the following day can be a no-training day).
>>Is it enough to just not repeat games/exercises every day, or should I aim to only do one session per day? >>
You can alternate days: hard new stuff and then the next day, easy fun stuff like running through tunnels LOL! Then give that skill (the hard or easy one) a day off and do something else the next day.
You all see that the games really build up on themselves a lot, and you don’t need them to be perfect before going to the next game 🙂
>>Of course, I don’t want to push her into depletion, and then take a break. But I also feel like if I don’t train, she might get bored.>>
Timing the sessions will definitely avoid depletion. And if you don’t do a formal training session, you can do something else to prevent boredom. I play silly random games with the pups like hide and seek in the house, group sit competitions with all the dogs (whichever dog sits fastest wins the cookie :))and similar silliness which is goofy but also useful for training in general. And then there is the “here is a chew bone please chill out” behavior that theoretically whippets should be good at LOL!!!
>>So I guess I’m not sure if I should get Vesper in a trial environment while she’s young, or if it’s something I should work up to?>>
Great question!!! Yes, get her into the environment after giving her the tools to cope with it. The most important tool will be the pattern game (back and forth game from the resilience track). And when she enters the environment, get that game going with REALLY high value food. And let her give you feedback about how she feels about the environment.
>> I’m worried about it being potentially overwhelming, but also worried if I don’t expose her, it will backfire later? I know it all depends on the puppy, but I’m not sure what to do.>>
We want to expose her so she can play her games and use her tools. She seems very stable so nothing bad will happen by exposing her to it. Best case scenario? She has a great time, eats all the treats, chases a toy, and you get info on how to help her engage in the new environment (she should also learn all of Lazlo’s MYOB games :)) Worst case scenario is she says THIS IS HARD and you move further away to find the threshold of where she can eat or play.
Ideally you can start this in the class environment, bringing her in while the class is going so she can see what’s happening. A good exposure is all she needs, having a good time eating/playing/meeting people. I recommend flyball foundation classes before you start agility group classes with her – the flyball foundation is far better for future agility engagement. I can see if there are any good ones in your area!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Yes, keep playing the games and experimenting! The best strategies for her will reveal themselves with more practice in the trial setting 🙂Tracy
Hi!
>>Well I wasn’t nervous because I was considering it just a training run, lol.>>
Perfect! I love this mindset 🙂
He is off to a great start! I am excited to see how he does!!
Tracy
Good morning!
>>I’m thinking a lot about the start line and what to try. Away from agility he’s great.>>
You can add more arousal to everyday stay games, with toy play and more motion from you. And when he can do that in higher arousal – then add back a jump but in a different location (not in the usual agility ring). Build it up slowly and consistently, and he will get it 🙂
>> 2 trips and I was out of sight briefly while I put the stuff in the shed. He didn’t move an inch the whole time. >>
Super! There might be some wired genetics helping out there too – we will take it! That is why it is worthwhile to explore the down stay in agility too, as maybe it will transfer over from herding more easily than the other positions.
>> I’ll think about this more but maybe some short outings to the agility arena and do a lead out, release to an obstacle and done. Maybe the reward is back at the start line.>>
Get it stronger in really high arousal (volume dial game!) away from agility first, to the point where you can get a stay while you run away. Then you can bring it back into agility, where you would do shorter lead outs and less running away, because there is a bit of history of movement in front of the first jump.
And I like to reward back at the start line by throwing the reward back to the dog, or having it behind the dog and cuing him to turn back to it:
Let me know what you think!
TracyWow!!! Was she running OVER her toy at the beginning to go wrap the cone? Impressive 🙂 Good Mingo!! And then it was really easy when you had it in your hand!
My only suggestion is at the start of each rep, you can say ready but don’t say ‘go’ – just say your wrap verbal. Go will eventually mean to run in full extension as fast as possible, and the cone indicates turn so we don’t want her to get confused. You can also gently hold her collar, start saying the verbal a few times, and then let her go to the cone. That will help build up the verbal even more, and get explosiveness to the cone when you do let her go.
The Car-Chasing-Boot-Camp was a great training detour and I am really glad you did it. I think it is more important than agility games! (and it is a great dog sports foundation in that she is learning to NOT chase motion of other things).
>>My mom needs to figure out where she left off on class homework >>
You were doing the handling games with the barrel and she was doing GREAT! Take a look at the rocking horse game (2 barrels, or a barrel & cone) – she is ready for that game (and it is super fun :))
Great job here!!
Tracy
