Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Good morning!
>>I am trying to improve our tugging, but I just don’t feel we are making much progress.>>
You are! Developing play style with a puppy is not easy but the tugging is looking really good. I have some suggestions for you!
>>He always wants to grab it by the handle, close to my hand, which makes me jerk my hand up which then makes it worse.>>
Have a SUPER long toy with the big part at the end and the part by your hand less exciting – so the big part can be dragged along the ground for him to chase. It will be harder to hold it, so you will want to scrunch it up into your fist so you can unveil it when it is time to reward him.
And if he does touch your hand – ouch! You can let out a yelp and tell him it hurts because he will appreciate the feedback and will still want to play tug. Just be neutral about it: a quick yelp then back to playing.
>>He tried to grab it from my hand a couple of times. >>
See below for more on that (there was only one on the video but that was a handling error). But also – he needs a marker for when the toy in your hand is available. I say “bite” for when the dog can grab the toy. That way he learns to ignore it in my hand until I say the word. Try not to use “yes” for everything because that can be confusing about when the reward is available or not, and where the reward is located.
I also work toy play and toy transitions a lot in isolation, here are some ideas:
Looking at the video:
He is doing well here!!! Strong commitment and very tight around the barrel and FAST! YAY!!It is tempting to do a whole bunch of wraps in a row, but try to only do 2 barrels in a row (like one cone to one barrel then reward) for two reasons:
– It allows you to keep your handling mechanics very clean and clear
– It adds arousal but not toooooo much arousal all at once 🙂Also that will help keep things spicy and not repetitive 🙂
I love that you were adding your wrap verbals! Keep using them… but don’t give him a “yes” for each barrel. Two reasons for that:
– the “yes” delays the next info. The next info coming earlier is quite reinforcing for him!
– The “yes” can be confusing if sometimes it means keep going and sometimes it means rewards. So when you want to reward, give a reward marker (like ‘bite’) and reward.At :20 he got frustrated and bark/jumped up and knocked over the cone: it was the 4th wrap in a row, and on that cue you were disconnected (looking forward too much with your arms forward) and more importantly: your left leg did not come forward to indicate the cone. Conflicting indicators (upper body saying wrap, lower body saying don’t wrap) are frustrating so he let you know 🙂
Compare to :43 and :48 when your leg stepped forward: very clear! And he drove directly to the barrel. You were using 2 arms on the cue and you probably don’t need to do that – the leg step is more important for him at this stage.
So if something happens and he presents a frustration behavior: that is great feedback from the dog! You can just reward (handler errors still get rewarded :)) rather than cue a sit or do a treat scatter – his feedback is good! So rewarding will thank him for it. And a sit or treat scatter can be a bit frustrating too, because it stops the action 🙂
Nice line up at :38!
>>>>He tried to grab it from my hand a couple of times.>>
There was one here on the video – it was handler error 🙂 I know that when stuff like that happens, it feels like an impulse control error from the dog but when we slow down the video, it is always a break in connection so the only info the dog has is the visual of the toy (or the connection break looks like a blind cross cue, so they are correct to change sides to the toy side).
He went directly to the toy at 1:07 – it was a disconnection moment where your dog-side shoulder was closed forward (blocks his video of connection) and your hand was forward so even though you were peripherally looking back at him, he couldn’t see the connection and was not clear which side to be on so he went to the side with the toy because the toy is an obvious visual. Then you whipped it away from him and stopped (both negative punishers) which can increase frustration and make him more grabby for the toy.
So if he ends up on the wrong side, let him have the toy. And then on the next rep, make a big exaggerated connection with eye contact (Hallmark moment!) so that he is very clear about where to be. I bet he ignores the toy!
More about tugging – he had good tugging at the end!! Look at 1:26 were it was really good – let him win when he pulls back like that.
At 1:31 he wanted to stalk the toy when it went dead so keep it moving (BCs and their stalking LOL!). He is not a fan of a ‘dead’ toy right now, and that is fine – driving to a dead toy will get built up with more experience.Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyThanks for the reminder! You and I are birds of a feather – I also remember I was supposed to post video but I cannot remember what it was LOL!! I will go back through the recording and find it 🙂
Good morning!
>>than posing with the Grinch in the photo booth yesterday>>
That must be so adorable!!! Did you post it on Facebook?
She seemed really comfy at Fusion in the rocking horses video – good job getting her happy with the environment!
Her commitment to the barrels is looking good – she commits better to Mr. Fox than she does to Mr. Hedgehog, but that might be that she is more used to Mr. Fox 🙂 And she definitely liked chasing you for the 360s 🙂
Note that when you ran away from the barrels, her tugging was great! When you were tugging in between the barrels, she was a bit like: are we tugging, or are we DOING THE THING (she is a big fan of doing the THING :)). She didn’t get frustrated, but she was not as fully engaged with the toy because the barrels were right there. So for this game, run out of the setup to tug so it is clear what is happening at each point – you can do a 360 exit, or you can reward a FC in the middle of the barrels by running away.As you get moving faster, remember to hold your connection longer – you picked up the tempo at 1:40 and looked forward too early, so she was less certain of which side to be on. On the reps where connection was super clear til she was past you, she had no questions 🙂
On the 2nd video: cheese for tunneling sounds delightful! The longer tunnel here was hard when you were moving (it seemed dark and looked likes she was going into a cave LOL!) but with cheese comes bravery to run into caves LOL!! So she figured it out really well. In this scenario, you can jump start the session with a lure: you can hold her, throw the cheese through the tunnel so she sees it land, then send her through. That will take all of one rep to get her rolling then you can extend the tunnel and add more motion. You can add the tunnel verbal on the next session if she dives right into it (you were a smart trainer to NOT add it here because she was still figuring it out).
Great job here!
TracyWow!! You didn’t mention that his first real run was perfect!!! He seemed like the same dog as he is in training and the FEO runs: happy, fast, engaged, executing beautifully. YAY! And you were lovely with your connection and showing him each part of the line and supporting each obstacle. SUPER!!!! Really great!!!! I don’t know if you were nervous or not, but you looked calm and cool, and that really helped him.
The only hard part was trying to get the cross after the weaves – it is hard to be on time when there are only 6 weaves so it will be much easier in Open with 12 weaves LOL!!!Great job here – keep mixing in FEO and some real runs. You can test the contacts a bit more in T2B and FAST doing FEO to see if he can do 2 in a row before the reward or let you keep moving past them. If he looks ready, you can try a regular run for real 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
The FAST run looked really good! Nice job being connected on your lead out and rewarding the contacts! Yes, you got caught short on time at the end when trying for the weaves (he was facing the wrong way so didn’t get the entry) but to put a positive spin on it: he got to practice feeling a little bit of frustration and remaining engaged and in a balanced state of arousal. Yay! He was resilient to the uncertainty and that is a big win!
Great job 🙂
TracyHi!
>> Is it ok to use a u shaped tunnel with the contact facing one opening? That’ll give me more room to be lateral, ahead or behind. >>
Yes, yo usan totally use the curved tunnel.
>>Also, I have better food markers for staying in place versus with a toy. I do have toy markers, but they aren’t that fluent with Sprite. One is a pitch the toy back and the other is I’ll walk back and place the toy in your mouth. Should I stick either the toys for arousal?>>
Yes, the toys will be better for this high arousal game 🙂 She does not have to stay in place though – when she has stopped in position, you can praise then use a marker to throw the toy back – my throw back marker also releases the dog to get the toy or treat I have thrown. We don’t want you to walk back to her because we want to reward the picture of you being any except next to her 🙂 so the thrown rewards will do that plus they are more efficient to get to her (rather than walking back).
Keep me posted!
TracyHi!
These are looking really good! I think overall that you are getting more comfortable handling your little speedster! And her commitment is looking good too, which makes it easier for you. Your connection was really strong!! This setup had really big distances, so make sure you practice these at compressed distances too for when she sees 7 meters on course (this looked more like 8 or 9 or 10 meters LOL!)
Most of my ideas are basically all about trusting her, showing the line, and getting outta there without facing the other direction at all.
One other thing – the high energy tugging reward is awesome! Give her and you more time between the tugging reward and the next line up – tug then trade for a cookie, let her breathe/catch her breath and think, and also you can take a moment to plan for the next rep. Going right into it doesn’t give either of you time to catch your breath or thinking about what is happening next, and you can see it went sideways on the first video when the transition was just too fast and you had an error.
Sequence 1: Super strong!!
Try not to decel on the threadle to let her get ahead of you (:09) – try to cue it and keep moving through it. Your opposite arm threadle cue is a bit hidden here (meaning she might not have been able to see it from behind you), so rotate more at the waist and show it to her fully (and that will also have your dog-side arm move back and away to show the threadle).The release from the start line with the tunnel verbal was clearer to her than the “ok” (which pulled her in) followed by the tunnel (so she went back out).
The BC at the end looked great! Yay!
2nd video – Also looking good!!! Super nice layering in the opening 🙂
You are going to need to send to 5 from closer to 6 in order to get past it on time for a good blind 🙂 Ideally, you will want to serp it very close to the exit wing, so you are passing the exit wing of 6 and heading to 7 before she takes off for 6.
At :36 the blind position indicated the tunnel line which is why she was a bit wide there.The FC between 5 and 6 can also be closer to 6 and also earlier (she had already made a takeoff decision at 1:10 when you start it) – when she lands from 4, you can cue 5 and start the FC. The exit of 6 needs a stronger turn cue: spin or big decel to get collection (probably a spin is the better choice, so you can keep moving). The post turn at 1:12 pointed her directly to the tunnel so she was wide there too (but didn’t take it, good girl!)
3rd video – super nice send to 2!!!
Rather than do a FC on the landing of 3 (which faces you directly to the tunnel) you can do a serp to blind there too, to get a tighter turn. I think the extra rotation of the FC, for example, is more support than she needs – you were doing a great job of looking at the landing spot in places where you needed countermotion and she read them really well!You don’t need to do a decel as much to get the turn on 5 at :19 and :47 where the decel pulled her off (and on the 4th video too)- use a brake arm and run for your life 🙂 With the big decel, you ended up walking and I don’t think you have time for that, especially with her speed on the big lines. The brake arm should allow you to get the soft turns AND keep running 🙂
Same idea of not need to help her as much on jump 9 (after the tunnel) – You can use the verbal and show motion the new direction to get the turn to 9 (:24 and :52) so you can get past the jump there too with a serp to blind, sliding past the exit wing.
4th video – leading out to the throwback worked really well 1-2-3!! Nice turn on 3! The rotation really tightens that right up without bleeding off speed.
Yo did a FC on 9 at :24 and ended up facing the tunnel – the serp to blind will be the winner move there 🙂 She did a great job of not taking any off course tunnels, but we can tighten the lines by having you slide right past the exit wing before she even takes off for 9. That will also make the next line a lot easier too because you will be ahead of her and facing the correct direction.Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>I don’t know what to do about the start line. Nothing? No pressure?>>
I would do two things:
– teach her a start line in a position where she doesn’t move (probably a sit or stand) and reward reward reward reward 🙂
– teach her a behind the back slingshot start, for fun easy starts where you don’t need a stay
>> I practice with my Toppl and will randomly through it back to her..and then release her to it off of a jump.>>
This is good! Do super short lead outs so you can get the reward in before she moves at all.
>>I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying about her moving forward when I leave her. I’m reinforcing that it’s okay? It’s reinforcing for her to do that? Im creating a pattern I don’t want?>>
All of the above, perhaps? There were conflicting indicators about what it was – sometimes you would stop the game and reset her if she moved or stayed at the start line longer to make sure she didn’t move, and sometimes you would release when she was moving or had moved from a sit to stand. So it is possible she is not entirely sure of what you want on the start line.
>>It is common for her to turn towards me when I do a lateral lead out. Ideas to help with that? Just one jump with my Toppl?>>
You can lead out a little less far laterally, and take a big step to the jump you want her to take laterally – then throw the reward (or have it placed in advanced to help her out. You can save the Toppl for the harder environments and use lower value rewards at home, so the Toppl maintains it super high value 🙂
>>Could I have patterned her not to do a start line when we are just out playing doing agility spontaneously?>>
Probably not, if you didn’t ask for the behavior. If you haven’t cued it, she doesn’t need to do it 🙂 But if you do cue it, we want her to fully understand the criteria so I think short lead outs with lots of reinforcement (thrown back or releasing her forward) will be a good route
>>Threadle stuff – I should keep my feet moving in the direction I want to go and just use my inside arm to “open” the door?>>
Yes- foot rotation towards her will possibly pull her off the correct line, plus it stops your motion then she will leave you in the dust 🙂
>>Also, should I be running with her more rather than sending her?>>
You can use sends when you think it best fits the course, and run with her when you think it best fits the course. That way, you can balance all the skills!
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Ah, that would explain why Blu didn’t take a turn on the equipment 🙂 Hopefully you can borrow Red as a distraction dog at some point!Looking at the contact video: yes, that is what I had in mind 🙂
This was a great session because she was able to work her contacts in really high arousal (yay!) and also because it shows you what she needs on the contacts to be successful: she needs you to be near to the contact zone when she is stopping – that I when you got the best stops.
When you were behind or way ahead – you got a nice running contact LOL!! And almost-running contacts (very stretched forward or last minute weight shifts) on the 2nd or 3rd rep of that challenge. This is what happened at the beginning when the board was closer to the tunnel (you were behind her and moving forward).
So you will want to dial back your motion but not be anywhere near the end of the board when she is arriving at the end of it: be behind, be way ahead, be running away laterally. And then throw the reward back to her, so you aren’t always releasing forward (which will pull her forward too!)
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
Thanks for the update!!
>>First run Speedstakes. I brought him into the upper part of the arena and kept him out of direct site line to the course below by standing behind the bleachers. He was distracted but was able to engage with me and even responded when I said his name. He couldn’t tug though. >>
That is great! No worries about the tugging for now.
>>On the arena floor he had a harder time. No real engagement until we went to the practice jump. At the jump he could do what I asked but kept an eye on the ring as well. >>
Good boy! This made something pop into my mind: since we know he likes to work and he likes to move: does he know how to weave between your legs? That could be a great way for him to remain engaged outside the ring and be working and moving too!
>>He was good on line. Able to sit and somewhat chill. No barking. I felt good going into the ring>>
Yes! That is great!
>>In the ring he was very antsy on the start line. He stayed but pushed it. >>So… just like at home 🙂 That is fine – I know his stay isn’t perfect yet but any behavior in the ring that is same as the home behavior is still a big win!
>>The run itself was perfect. No errors. He leashed good at the end and outside the ring I sent him to his ball and he grab it and was ready to tug.>>
Wow! Fantastic!! That must have felt great, from beginning to end!
>>Second run Jumpers. This time I brought him in and let him sit on the bleachers and watch. He sat but then got pretty aroused and started barking. >>Yes, he is not a good watcher. He needs to work and move, so watching is not a good thing for now.
>>So back to the other side of the bleachers a little warm up, down to the practice jump, back in line and all was good.>>
Perfect! Excellent choice and adjustment!
>> I decided to try a down at the start line and that didn’t work. He didn’t stay in a down and he moved closer to the jump as I lead out. He at least waited to be released >>
Good boy again! The stay is not quite fully trained yet but he isn’t self-releasing.

>>The run started a little too frantic with him taking 2 turn cues too soon and missing the jumps.>>That sounds like handler error not dog error LOL!! Sounds like he was listening and responding! Yay!
>>So we regrouped and started from obstacle 4 and it was near perfect. We had a bar due to my late turn cue, and he overshot his weave entrance which is ok for a novice dog but he got back in and finished it perfectly. >>
This is terrific!!
>>Good releash at finish and out of the ring to his ball reward and some tugging. I was very pleased. >>
And you should be pleased! Sounds like things went really well!!!
>>I scratched the 3rd run since I knew I’d be fighting the start line with no real plan and he didn’t need to fight his arousal urge any more that evening. >>
SMART!!!! Excellent decision to end on a high note.
I agree that he did GREAT and there is big progress!! You made great decisions too and that helped him a lot. So give me a list of moving behaviors he enjoys doing so we can use that as his form of engaged chill 🙂
>>I think I’ll take a start line class that will give me some ideas at some start line options and force me to work on it. >>
Yes! He just needs more training and experience with the start line without moving. He wants to move, so you can reward him a LOT for not moving, starting away from the jumps for now.
>>He seemed to relax a bit at the trial, wag his tail, ears up, jump up on me and engage >>
This is the BEST part of it all!! YAY!!!! We want him to relax and have a great time. SUPER!!! You two are totally on the right track! Keep it up!!!!
Tracy
Hi!
The sequences are looking really strong!
The BC at :35 on the first video and at :07 on the 2nd video was earlier than the previous reps but can still be even earlier (I know, I am a pain hahaha!) So when you see his front feet land from 1, tell him to take 2 and start the BC 🙂Nice job with the turn on 3!!
On the jump after the tunnel at :49 (first video) and :20 (2nd video) – there is a lot of hustle required to get to the takeoff side, which makes slowing down to get the FC really hard, so he was waiting for information. This might be a great spot for a blind cross there – it all be easier to execute and still get a great turn!
I am not sure why he turned to his left at :51. There might have been a subtle pull that direction in the handling, but more likely he didn’t want to jump towards he pressure of the stuff there. Good job continuing! He had a little struggle with sniffing for a moment – possibly tired this was in the same session as the other runs? Good job getting him pumped up again to finish strong!
He turned correctly at :23 on the 2nd video, but you can see him slowing down and measuring his stride there, so it does look like he was not comfy jumping towards all the stuff there.
Great job getting him to the backside (and not the delicious off course tunnel!) on both videos!!! And well done for the strong ending each time too 🙂
Great job!
TracyHi!
I am glad he measured into 20”!!
The T2B run went well 🙂
2 ideas for you:Try to move to the start line either with him doing tricks or tugging on the leash, so you don’t need to use the leash to get his head up.
Stay connected as you lead out – he totally thought the reconnection was going to be the release.
The stopped a-frame looked great! And so did the handling sections. Yay!
The 2nd video here is also the T2B run, ca you re-post the JWW run?
Great job!
TracyHi!
>>The smaller mat & just tossing the ‘get it’ cookie worked great. I think the banana line will be coming up next!>>
Awesome!!! And yes, you can move to the banana line game 🙂
He totally is a parallel path champion! He was adding a lot of speed and finding it really easily. He also quickly figured out that the reward would be ahead of him, so he was doing a great job of looking forward. Yay!
Keep throwing the reward earlier and earlier – you can mark and throw for the intent to go to the jump, meaning as soon as he looks at it and takes a step towards it. And throwing it further will give you a chance to move yourself more laterally away for the next rep (which I agree, he is ready for).
Great job here!
TracyHoly cow I somehow missed the post, I am so sorry!!! If you don’t get a reply within a day, feel free to poke me!
He did a great job here! I am glad he did well with the inflatables/wedge/pod setup! Moving to the wobble board was perfect and this setup looked great.
Only one suggestion from this session: When delivering the reward, you can feed with his head lower, so his chin is parallel to the ground or pointing slightly downwards. That will be better for hims balance. When he tilts his head all the way up, he is shifting his weight a little off balance and that will make things harder when the objects are even less stable.
>>Should I started adding the noise element or stick with movement for a while longer?>>
You can make one variable harder at a time and make other variables easier as you do that. So you can add noise (moving the board to a noisy floor is probably the easiest way to do it :)) but when you do that, put another carpet square or two under the board so the movement is easier in case the noise proves to be hard for him. And if you want to add more movement, no need to also add noise. I think you can do both in separate sessions, rather than only stick to movement. If he disagrees and acts uncertain, then you can back off the difficulty and just have him play on a barely-moving wobble board.
Great job here!!
TracyHi!
Really good setup here! Small room, rugs so he doesn’t slip = perfect!
He started to retrieve the toy to you a little then yes, the keep away. So the good news is that he likes the toy! Yay! When he is going to the toy or picking it up, I think when you get excited he is expecting a cookie perhaps? And drops the toy. So you can be quieter and tap the ground or say “bring it” when he has it, trying to avoid the “yay!” and praise that might get him thinking a cookie is coming.
Two things you can do to help with the keep away:
– make the play with the toy last longer before you take the toy away for the next rep. If you get the toy then take it away pretty quickly, he might stop bringing it back 🙂 So try for very long play (30 seconds or so) then let him win the toy again.
– you can tie the toy to 2 or 3 more toys, so you have a 6 foot long toy 🙂 That way when you toss it and he gets one end, you can engage with him by picking up the other end and playing. Even if he steps away with the toy, you still have part of the toy to engage with him and prevent the keep away.
Great job!
Tracy
