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Good morning!
The sending looked really strong!!!! I think the only hard part was figuring out transitions from the cato to the barrel. And even during the barrel wraps, she qas glancing at the Cato.
So try this: have the barrel can already in place in the room before you come in. Carry the cato with you and put it down near the barrel so there is no real stay needed. That way she can hop on, you can finalize getting ready, she can have a couple of cookies for stay on, then you can release her to work (and lean the cato up against the wall so it is not in play for offering behavior).And when that is underway, you can add in some toy rewards to see if she can build toy play into the training too, with the cato board as the bridge behavior. Let me know if that makes sense!
For the running contact mat: the bigger box is great to start shaping with. Then you can go to a smaller mat, like a folded towel, then eventually to the real mat for the RDW training 🙂
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi! You are off to a great start here!!
He seems to think it is easy and fun!! The next steps would be to replace the click with a “get it” marker, and a cookie toss, so he looks at you less. Try to have your cookies ready so that you can throw immediately.
Then the next step is to fold up the mat so it is maybe a third smaller, to see if he can get his body onto a slightly smaller mat.
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
It sounds like you have really good opportunities at home to work through similar scenarios at trial, especially when he watches motion in other dogs but is not involved in the motion with other dogs.>>If I call his name to come to me he will look at everyone else to see what their going to do not me.>>
Last check to see if there is going to be any motion happening? Could be any number of reasons but what a great opportunity to use his name and other games! I am sure that motion frustration is part of why he likes to run with Tic and Marky but struggles when they are running but he is not.
Keep me posted!
TracyHe’s good when it’s only Gibbs and Prue so I’ll start reinforcing good behavior there and then maybe just add Tic before I add Marky into the mix. the 2 of them really have an interesting dynamic. Very competitive but they also love to run together. Which is also competitive I guess. More to come. Thanks
Good morning!
Yay for going outside! Since the outdoors is harder and you are trying to use lower value treats, you can break off the essay safer ever 3 or 4 treats and throw a toy around or let him run around. He did did really well, with a little bit of attention wandering (because the outdoors is interesting!). So more breaks will help maintain the attention and if he sits and looks at you – let him sort out it now and get moving again rather than help him get up by putting a cookie in the other bowl. Most of the reps here were really good (especially if the trash barrel was new to him), he had a really good groove going before you finished!
Now, if the Cheerios are too low in value to compete as a motivator with the great outdoors, you can use something higher value outdoors but stick to the Cheerios indoors.
>>I tried using the prop (the small tote bag) outside, but it was blowing away and then he picked it up to play keep away. As much as I’d like to use it, I really need to change to a more stable prop.>>
Yes, the tote bag would need something in it so it is heavier (I put paw pod thingies in my stuff to weight it down). You can change to a more stable prop but that would mean started over with value building for it (which is fine). I prefer to keep the original prop because it is requiring us to do some problem solving, which is part of what it is intended to do 🙂 Picking up the prop is no different than the dog that picks up the number cone to run around with it, so we have a valuable opportunity to sort all that out.
I think transitions are the key – bring him into the session when you are ready, using a toy or tricks with cookies. Then put the prop down then immediately go into the session so you can immediately reward. His first send here was really good, then things went a little sideways as you tried to get the prop to remain still, etc. I think he is in a quick-transitions-needed phase or he gets busy doing something else (like prop stealing LOL!!)
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyFeel free to get the tugging on video, so you can tug him right into the start of the session. He might be losing the added engagement from the tugging if the transition is too long.
T
Good morning!
I guess he really really loves his prop 🙂
Yes, you can totally lure him to your side with a cookie or dragging a toy. Add as much distance as possible between you and the prop, and lure to get the behavior started. Let me know if that helps! And you can use higher value reinforcement for staying with you on your line, and lower value reinforcement for the get out to the prop.
Keep me posted!
TracyGood morning!
>For some reason I found this exercise awkward. >
I find it awkward too, with the bending over to get the cookies in. He did really well, coming in for the start cookie then backing out – nice clicks and nice placement from you!!!
You can start clicking a little later (waiting for more steps) and you can also add a low mat for him to back up onto, adding a destination in the hopes that he can back up more and more steps over time.To make it less awkward for you, you can try remaining bent over (I rest my elbows on my thighs) with your hands low, so you can have an easier time with the rewards because you don’t have to keep bending over. Or, you can sit in a chair (that is my other favorite one!) so you don’t have to go up and down as much.
Great job there!
TracyGood morning!
Hope your toe wasn’t getting too mushed by the wobble board LOL!!! Good job reducing the amount of tip 🙂
>>. He wasn’t as confident as I’d like to see him, so we took a break and I started again with the disc>>
I see what you mean – he was putting front feet on but not really interested in back feet on either of the things. It is pretty normal that dog are great with these as puppies but lose some of the love for them as teenagers, especially when the focus has been on other things.
He was not worried about them, though, so I think his love for them will come right back with a few more session. A couple of things that. Can help him out:
On the wobble board, you can brace it with a bunch of towels (or your foot LOL!) and reward any interaction by throwing the treat the direction he is facing so he has to go over the wobble board to get it and not turn around away from the wobble board to get it. The treat would be tossed the opposite direction each time, so is going back and forth across the board, which should help engage his hind end. At first you can mark and toss for just front end, but then as he gets confident, you can wait for him to put his back end on too.
For the disc – 2 things that will help him feel more comfy getting on would be
– under-inflate the disc for now. That is much easier to get on than the fully inflated or over-inflated disc.
– If you have a second disc (or a couple more) put them all together next to each other, so he has a wider playing field to get all of his feet on. The single disc requires him to scrunch up and balance which is really hard, but letting him spread out into a more natural stand should feel more stable for him.Nice work here! Keep me posted!
TracyHi! I am glad you found the answers helpful! It was great having your post because it provided a framework for discussion – thanks for that!!
>> My one question is weave poles- is this a case by case situation?
Well, yes, but also no. We really don’t see stress in a lot of dogs until suddenly we see BIG STRESS. Things get stacked up and they can manage it… til they can no longer manage it and then we are in a big hole. So just because the dog does not appear stressed, we cannot assume that they are not stressed. In fact, I think we can assume that, biologically, the ARE stressed because unexpected things like errors can definitely fire up the HPA axis and also unexpected things use dopamine releases (reward prediction errors). So there is a lot happening even if we don’t see an immediate behavioral expression of it.
>>I’m thinking of the two different scenarios- one where the dog missed the entrance and couldn’t collect in time which you could fluidly bring them back around and try again so it wouldn’t be a stop and punishing scenario, >>
I would not stop a young dog and try again because it might be a stop/punish scenario for them even if we don’t think it is. Plus, this goes way beyond operant: they are processing so many things in the internal and external environment, that they might have done the absolute best they could with the info provided (and I am not going to tell them that their best is not good enough, seems rude LOL!!) and also the adolescent brain can sometimes tell itself that they got it right, which makes stopping confusing.
So I only circle a dog back around if they have a good long history of happy, comfy ring experiences at trials, and a high rate of success at home as well as excellent resilience in training for making “fixes”.
>>the dog popping because the environment is too hard.>>
Pooping is more obvious, of course, so that does does not want to be in that environment. But it is possible there is stress behavior happening that we don’t see in the moment because it is not always obvious (until things implode, then it is really obvious).
>> I”m not sure if we should always keep going>>
Keep going with a young dog and if you can, you can loop the dog around back onto the line before the weaves to try again without an obvious stop.
>> or are there situations where you would try again>>
Only with experienced adult dogs.
>> and if they failed a second time, then keep going?>>
Yes, if there is more than one failure with a dog that theoretically “knows” how to weave… then yes, move on if they miss it a second time and deal with it outside of trialing: incomplete understanding perhaps? Something hurts, perhaps?
I know that I am likely to be in the minority with this advice. So many trainers/instructors are firmly in the operant-only mode of “make them do it” (oy!) or “but they KNOW how to do it” (do they, really?) or “they are blowing you off” (they are not) or “they are naughty” (ummmm…no.) So remember that MOST behavior learning and output is NOT operant Operant conditioning is just one small piece. It is the piece that we humans can observe which is why we are obsessed with it LOL!!
>>So many things to think about! >>
ACCURATE! It is incredibly complex and our canine teammates don’t speak English, which makes communication a little harder 🙂
>>But so far this journey is going really well so I’m excited to see where we are next year since she’s only 20 months old.>>
YAY! 20 months, you have almost survived adolescence! Exciting times ahead for sure 🙂
>>Looking forward to MYOB this weekend which is exactly what my other dog needs>>
MYOB will be fun – there will be some overlap (because, the science doesn’t change even if the class is different LOL!) but also some new stuff!!
Have fun! Keep me posted!
TracyHi! I will grab a photo of it shortly. Basically, I went to the the supermarket (Walmart will have them too) and grabbed a big, cheap bath mat with the stick up nubby things (I think they are also used for dusting?).
The fabric is called “texture noodle” lol!
Then I hacked it into roughly 6″ by 6″ squares with a scissor. Voila! A snuffle mat that I can stuff into my pocket.
Tracy
Good morning!
>>I use the smaller Toppl – it fits in the vest pocket.
Perfect!
> It had sardines at the bottom and yogurt on top – I froze it. She got a few licks during the first run and just at the dog walk on the second…and, of course, finished it off after the run. Sardines are soooo stinky.>>
Gross, yummy, brilliant. The results were spot on, so using the delicious combo is something to continue 🙂
>>I’m actually in a seminar in about a week. I’ll see how it goes and I can always trade out my BC if she gets too stressed. She has been to the venue previously. Should I take a big stock of toppls with me and do the same thing?>>
Yes, totally bring the Toppls!! And talk to the instructor about keeping her engaged with it, NOT setting her up to fail in hard skills, etc. So if there is a skill that is hard (like a backside threadle wrap in front of a group of new people), you will want to break it down, or move it further from the crowd, or ask the crowd to move back. The most important thing is to advocate for your girl, so she has a GREAT time. You can set up each turn for her as a reinforcing session. Fast and fun! There are many wonderful seminar instructors out there who can help you with that.
Keep me posted!
TracyThanks
Good morning! Loved this it session!!
And the ‘look’ marker is a good addition to the toolbox.You were able to get more duration here pretty quickly! And the more she did this, the more she got settled into her sit (note that there was FAR less movement of her cute feets :)) and you were able to add praise! And conversation about barking LOL! The barking might have just been a product of the toy stimulation. She was even falling off the stool a little when the toy was in the picture. So… for the toy, use the tug-sit-tug approach without the stool to jump start the concept of moving into and holding a sit, even with the SUPER exciting toy there. The demo for that is in the explosive stays part of the game.
You can totally cue her to hop up on the stool, that part doesn’t have to be shaped. So you after each reinforcement, you can go back to the stool, ask her to hop up and sit, then move away again. That add in both the duration and the lead out as you move away.
More about the toy:
>>I tried a toy but arousal got high or she got tired. I can try that again in a short session. >>
Yes, and try the toy at the beginning so we rule out the possibility of being tired (remaining motionless is in a stay burns a LOT of brain fuel for puppies, even with a high rate of reinforcement).
>>I have a word for a toy thrown back- catch.>>
Perfect!!!
>> When so I try without the stool?
For the food toss rewards, the next step would be to fade the stool to something lower like a small mat. And if she is happy with that, you can fade the mat pretty quickly too (or the mat can stay in for a while so the stay gets solidified).
For the toy tosses and releases forward to the toy, try it without the mat and just do quick sits and ‘catch’ releases (tossed back to her) so she gets the impulse control of sitting in the presence of the toy started. Then I think the stay element will be pretty easy!
If you have time and, more importantly, bandwidth to do one more session before you leave for the Invitational – great! That way she has a few days for her brain to percolate on it. If not, no worries, it can wait til you get back and her brain can percolate on it while you are gone. I generally don’t try to squeeze in a session when. I’m running around like a crazy person trying t be ready to leave for a big event, because my level of stress does not make for good training LOL!! So if you are busy, it is definitely better to shelve it til you are home 🙂
Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
>>Another tunnel threadle session with the RT. Are we good to add the threadle cue the next time we work on this?>>
This is going really well! Yes, add the tunnel threadle verbal, starting her on an easier angle to help guarantee she turns to the tunnel. She is sometimes moving before the verbal starts, so try to add in a gentle collar hold (one finger is probably all she needs LOL!) so you can add the verbal then let go, to really help attach the verbal.
The lap turns are also going nicely!! Super! I scrolled back to see if you had all started the tandem turns and I don’t see them, so go ahead an add those. And if you have done them and I missed it LOL you can take this skill outside, so she can do it with harder distractions (if the weather is decent 🙂 )
Great job!!
TracyHooray for her success with the tugging! She was great in class too!
Good job revisiting the moving stuff – puppies are often perfect with that when they are wee babies, but then if we put it away and come back to it when they are teenagers, I often see them being afraid of it. I am sure there is some brain-development reason (teenagers are more prone to fear, the neural pathways developed in early puppyhood for the behavior have withered, and so on) so I just try to keep the moving stuff in the loop very regularly now 🙂
Tracy
