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Hi!
Great session here, he had a super high rate of success in both directions. He was really seeing the bar. Yay!
When you moved the threadle arm back as part of the cue (like at 2:30 and 2:50), that really seemed to help too. Threadle arms do swing back as we handle (serp arms are more “frozen in place”) so feel free to use your threadle arm motion too!
>> If things look good then I’ll work through the sessions of changing the angle for him.
Before changing the angle, let’s add a little more motion so you are moving faster (if he struggles, you can make the angle even easier). If he is happy with that, then you can slow your motion down again and make the angle a little flatter.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyThis is also going really well!
As you add more countermotion, throw the reward sooner – think of it as rewarding the choice to move to the jump, rather than arriving at the jump.
For example, at :50, you moved away sooner and he was heading to the jump. And in one tiny heartbeat, you shifted your connection from the landing spot to his face, and that is when he didn’t commit. So you can throw it a lot sooner, while he is still a stride or two from the bump (and try to leave your connection on the landing spot in a very exaggerated way, like you did on the last 2 reps of these – those were super clear and he nailed it. Yay!!Tracy
Hi! He did really well here!!
>> He was like “seriously????, you want what???…. really???? you’re just standing there???”>>
Haha! Yes, that is why we play this game – so the pups can understand that decel means TURN and not launch 🙂 He did beautifully! You can start adding more distance so he comes in with more speed. And on the next session, start with the decels and maybe after 2 or 3 of them, do one parallel path – then back to the decels to see if he can balance back to collection.
One suggestion:
He looks up at you a lot as he is approaching the jump, probably because it is a relatively small toy in your hand. Try it with a long toy that you can drag so he looks down as you move away rather than up at your hands.>>I realized when watching it that I fell back into the habit of a “yes” marker instead of reward placement. I’ll try and remember to clean that up next time. >>
Yeah, we all do it when we get excited haha! The “YES!” generally means “reward from hand” which is fine as long as you don’t say it when you don’t want him to come to you 🙂 You ‘bite’ marker would be more effective, or you can throw it after he makes the turn with a ‘get it’ marker.
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
She is doing well with the serps and threadles here!!!
As you add more motion, a couple of suggestions to make it even easier:
– on the serps, as she is moving towards you, shift your connection to your serp hand which is over the landing spot. That will help get more commitment, because they don’t drive in as well when we look at them.
– yes, you can start moving sooner (as you mentioned). You can be slowly walking the whole time with your upper body already in the serp position (it will look and feel odd haha) and release when you are passing the center of the bar (and look at landing/your serp hand when you release).For the threadles – the threadle arm can move as part of the cue, now that we have added motion. At :23, you dipped your threadle-arm shoulder down and that was very effective! So you are cue the threadle, you can dip your shoulder down as you move (and even shake your threadle hand :)) That little bit of extra motion can really help her see the upper body cues. When she had some errors at the end, it was because your were closing your shoulders forward too early, so she went with the motion and didn’t read the threadle. By opening up the threadle arm by moving it, I think she will read it really well.
Bazinga’s magic carpet ride was hilarious lol!!!!!!
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>I thought I was clearly signally where I wanted her to go, but the connection part is also required!
Yes, it is hard to feel ‘in the moment’ during a session, because we can see the pup… but seeing the pup and being super connected are not the same, from the pup’s point of view 🙂 So lining her up to be super connected will really help. And her response to not getting enough connection is pretty normal – all dogs respond in some way (some sniff, some slow waaaaaay down, some jump up and bark).
>>I guess when I stopped her and had her sit I was thinking of the dial up and down exercise. But if I wasn’t clear, that was the issue then, not over-arousal??>>
It is all linked and it all happens really fast: She was in the optimal state of arousal, then she needed more connection, then the frustration brought her into that over-arousal state. And it all happened in about half of a second LOL!!! This is pretty normal teenage behavior in dogs – adolescents dogs have a harder times regulating internal state and emotion than baby puppies and adult dogs. There is some fascinating science behind this, which is great because it helps us humans understand how to help the teenager rather than blame ourselves or the pup. I think you have seen some other adolescent behavior during training with her – all totally normal and I promise we will survive canine adolescence LOL!!
So since things might go wrong, what to do in that moment to help her not get over-aroused? The reset cookie and line up will totally help. And, if she has trouble with that or you are taking a break in the session, a decompression moment also totally helps. This can depend on what she likes: one of my dogs likes to run in giant circles with the toy, so I give him the toy and tell him to go for a run. One of my youngsters likes to sniff as a decompression break – so I toss some treats in the grass for her to root out. Sniffing is great as a re-centering and decompression game… but for some dogs, running around is also a great decompression break:)
>> Question. You’re going to continue reviewing through the end of Feb, correct? Will we continue to have access to the course after that?>>
Yes – video reviews go until Feb 28. And the course (games, videos, forum) have lifetime access, so you can see it whenever you want 🙂
Have fun!
TracyHi!
>>So excited! I’ve actually never been to another country to just be a tourist! We are going to Venice, Florence, Assisi, Sorrento, and Rome!!! I ruined my agility season with trials with being gone lol, but it’s worth it😊. All it does is rain here anyway!!!>>
OMG you are going to have the best time!!!!!!! Enjoy!!!!
The training session went really well! Position 1 went well – I think she looked at the jump on the first tunnel rep but took the tunnel anyway 🙂 Position 2 where you were way ahead and connected? easy peasy!
She had an oopsie on the disconnection moment at 1:18 and 2:19 – you had a lot of motion and so she wen to the jump (which was also the side with toy in your hand).
The next reps after the bloopers had a little more conenction and she got it nicely (especially on the last rep where you did not have a ton of connection!) – so when you add in the disconnection, you can move more slowly to see if she can process the verbal.You can definitely add in position 3 where you start right next to the wing so she drives ahead of you to the jump or tunnel. And to increase challenge, you can have the jump be more parallel to the tunnel, so the wing is not past the tunnel entry – the jump will be more tucked into the tunnel that way and a little harder to “find”.
>>I reviewed my videos after each challenge.>>
You should totally reward yourself for that with excellent Italian food and gelato!!
great job! Enjoy your trip, I can’t wait to hear all about it!
TracyGood morning!
>> Here is a picture of our list of things to work on while on our winter break. Jump – tunnel discrimination is right up there.>>
Good list!!!!
The verbal only session was definitely hard, he was doing some frustration barking which I cannot remember him doing in training!
>>When he was rough taking his reset cookie, I set up slower to let him calm down. >>
That was the frustration and arousal. He definitely likes his tunnel! And after 2 “it is not the tunnel” he was able to figure out it was the jump… but then he couldn’t go back to the tunnel. So I think he is guessing and locking onto whatever was rewarded most recently (or the opposite of what was not being rewarded – with the tunnel being his preferred obstacle but he will switch his focus to the jump if the tunnel is not getting rewarded.
For the next session of the verbal only – can you replace the full tunnel with a short tunnel – a 3 footer if you have one, or scrunch up a 15 footer so it is short (and bag it so it doesn’t roll). A smaller tunnel visual can help the jump be more salient in the environment, which can make the obstacles more even in value. The full length tunnel is visually huge compared to the jump 🙂
There are a couple of ways we can increase the verbal processing –
Hold him so he hears the verbal several times (sometimes he was moving on the first thing he heard and it was not always the correct answer).
Also, you can help with a tiny bit of motion as long as it is done very precisely: say the verbal several times as you are holding him, then let go and do a small point or step to the correct object. This is helpful and easy to fade as long as the motion is after the verbal (so the verbal predicts where you will be indicating) and not simultaneous with the verbal. Then we can fade the small physical indication. It will probably be easier to do that standing up.
>>You can see at the end, I hold him until I see him making the correct choice. >>
That may or may not help him because he will keep guessing til he finds the correct one 🙂 So try the verbal then the indication and see how it goes.
>>Do we stay with this exercise until we get some understanding? Or go on to motion exercises?>>
You can do the verbal-only and the handling games concurrently, so you can start Handling 1 without waiting to do more of the verbal-only game 🙂
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>I am so envious of your turf roll! I gotta get one!!>>
Amazon! I hate being cold so I figured I would throw down a roll of turf in my warm house haha
She did well with the tunnels here! Driving straight to the tunnels looked really strong. The threadles to her left looked easy! The threadles to her right are a little harder, so you can help her out with a little more motion and also revisiting that skill in isolation (just the threadle and not the double whammy) The right turns will catch up to the left turns soon 🙂
And totally try the rocking horse with the tunnel, I think you’ll both like it 🙂
>> I am just outright stealing both your wrap sounds now! Thief!>>
HA!! It is crowd-sourcing, not thievery hahaha
The sending is looking good – forward sends were not a problem and she did great with the sideways sending – to send sideways with no other motion is HARD and she did it really well! Backwards sending is going well too. You are getting a bit of a look from her sometimes but that is normal and fine at this stage when there was very littler motion.
When you added motion in the 2nd half of the video, she didn’t seem to have a lot of questions, she had a lot of smooth commitments! Yay! Looks like there was just one little question at 1:45 where you shifted your weight away from the barrel a heartbeat too soon… so she didn’t fully commit. No worries, though, because that is the point of these sideways and backwards sending games: to help teach the pups to commit when we indicate the barrel, regardless of if we are early, late, forward, sideways, backwards, etc. So one little blooper in with all of those successes? No worries at all, she was really great!
>> I think I am having human-trouble getting the mechanics of the fast forward, slow forward, send. Am I doing it right? I kept these a little slow so I could get my mechanics working.>>
Yes, you were good – I think it might have felt weird because there was not a lot of room to move. So you can try to spread the barrels out more to give you more room for the transitions.
Great job here! Le me know what you think!
TracyThe rocking horses are going well! And I agree, they are FUN 🙂
>>Honestly, I think I wanted to just have some fun sessions with him and used tunnel rocking horses to take a break and enjoy him.>>
Perfect! We want the training to be fun and not always about deeply intellectual things LOL!
He did really well with finding the wings and he even got the tunnel threadles! Yay! If he has an error (like when he missed the tunnel threadle) – just happily call him back right away and reset with a cookie. When you freeze and you are quiet, he gets concerned. The threadle oopsie was mainly because of your position being too close to the straight line entry and you were moving fast, so he missed the verbal & arm. No worries, he did great on a ton of these reps!!
>>Let me know where I should head with them next.
I suggest spreading the wings out a little more to add more distance. So on the next session, move one wing further away. If that goes well, you can move the other wing further away on the session after that too!
One thing I do notice here is some slipping when he gets his toy especially in the first facility with the longer yellow tunnel – so a taller toy like a hollee roller that he can scoop up will help prevent that. And he has now reached the stage where you need more tunnel bags so he doesn’t have the tunnel moving from under him – the 5 tunnel bags at at the end of the video were good (maybe add one more set). The 4 bags on the super long tunnel at the beginning were not quite enough 🙂 20 foot tunnels need 7 sets of bags for powerful dogs like him 🙂
Great job on these! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
All the serpy stuff here looks great – you can add in more motion to the serps, moving a little faster and letting him see you shift connection from his eyes to the landing spot after you release.
For now, do the serps with more motion in separate sessions so when you do threadles, he only has to think about the threadle.When you cue the threadle, you can use arm motion too: the threadle arm can swing back a little.
For now, don’t move faster on the threadles so we can help him with jump commitment:>> where he turns to his left. I’ve tried adjusting the placement of the reward but haven’t been able to find that sweet spot that helps>
I think it is a young dog motor coordination thing – he is not quite getting organized to come in then turn away from you to see the bar soon enough to get over the bar. But we can help him out! Here are 3 ideas for you:
Use the longest bar you can use. If this was a 4 foot bar, use a 5 foot bar instead (bring one from home if the facility doesn’t have any LOL!)
Put wings on the jump – they are a useful visual aid for the dog
Angle the entry wing towards him and the exit wing towards you, creating almost a 45 degree angle – so as he comes around the threadle entry wing, the bar is basically on his line. Your line of motion is the same, and the toy placement is the same -but the jump is angled so the approach to the bar is easier for him to find and get organized for. After a successful session where he finds the bar easily, you can change the angle to make it a little harder to find the bar – then work that angle for a session or two.As he matures and gets the coordination going, it will be much easier for him to find the “flat” angle of jumping he needs for the threadle. Let me know if the idea makes sense or if you need a visual of it 🙂
Nice work!
TracyHi!
He is doing well here too –
>> I wasn’t sure if I should try to add in more motion yet or stay where we are. You’ll see where I tried a bit more, but it was too much. >>
I think two things were happening here when he didn’t commit: at 1:00 for example, you were running pretty fast and looking at him, which pulled him off the jump. And, the rewards where coming near you (towards the end of the first session) and from your hand (second session) which shifted the value away from the barrel. So, yes – add more motion! But exaggerate looking back to the landing side and keep tossing the reward to the landing side so it is nowhere near you 🙂
>>Also does the verbal end up being break because it is a serp or do you give the wrap directionals when you end up with the counter motion past the direction he’s coming from? >>
Either is fine at this stage, because it eventually gets put in to the context of your motion through a serpentine.
Nice work!
TracyHi!
This was an interesting session! Starting with the 2 parallel path reps put him into feeling very “forward” and then he was going wide to perhaps try to find the connection in front of you (pretty typical Border Collie behavior, nothing worrisome).
Breaking it down definitely helped him. For the next session, start on the full jump (to help him locate the front side), and don’t start with any parallel path forward reps 🙂 Jump in with him maybe 6 feet from the jump, and you stationary near the wrap wing – and reward for any effort on the front side but don’t reward if he goes around the backside (just reset with a cookie). You can even click him for taking the front. When he is able to do that, you can start to move him further back so there are more strides to the jump – and then when he is happy with that, you can add the parallel path reps in again 🙂
Let me know if that makes sense!
Tracy
Hi!
He did really well here – the stays and the commitment both looked great!The first video looked good, very precise mechanics on the transitions and rewards and the lead out. Nice!
Good stay rewards mixed in! For the barrel rewards, reward on the line closer to you because your lead out position (stationary and on the same ‘plane’ as the barrel) predicts a soft turn not a wrap.2nd video
Good job with the tricks & play before the line up, and adding the leash into it. that all helps make the transition into the ring easier later in his life 🙂>>I realized I was confused about which arm I should use depending on the different sides>>
On this video, you were using the opposite arm/leg to send – so these lateral lead outs should always be dog-side leg/arm like on the first video.
One other detail – be sure to lead out and stand still on the plane of the barrel, before the send – you had some extra motion or didn’t quite lead out far enough (like at 1:54, which was more of a parallel path send as you were not on the plane of the barrel). That consistent position will help him understand the soft turn openings that he will see on course.
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
>On another topic, Tracy Golden says hi, I saw her last weekend, told her I was taking the class. 🙂
Wow! Small world! Tell her I say hello!!
The rocking horse game is going well!! I agree, it is harder than it looks 🙂 But you had super nice connections throughout and she showed really strong commitment!!!
>.. I often had problems getting Georgie started, I think I need to start farther back>>
Yes, this was the hardest part! Thanks for leaving these moments in the video! Georgie’s questions were about the transition into the send at the start: This happened on the second rep at :13 and then later at :49, 1:10, 1:14, 1;21 – you were facing her, she was facing you – then you turned and pointed forward. This caused a disconnection so she leapt up in frustration and barked.
Compare to how you started on the very first rep, and at :32 – she was at your side and you were connected, very smooth! And then at 1:45, you gave yourself a head start so you could turn and face the barrel, then released with connection: LOVELY!
So at the start of each rep, you can line her up at your side, face the way you will be sending her, ask her to stay so you can be one step ahead – then connect and send. When you did that, the starts looked fabulous!
Bear in mind that the left turns might be harder for her, so you will want to show her a very smooth transition into the send with lots of connection into the left turns.
>>She gets excited, so I stopped her a couple of times to sit or down. At least one of those is shown.>>
I think it was not excitement, it was frustration, more like this: MOM I DON’T KNOW WHERE TO GO AND IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT I GET THIS RIGHT lol! She is a very serious girl 🙂 who wants to get it right 🙂 The sit and down can be punishing to her, because she doesn’t know what went wrong or how to get it right in that moment, then she has to have a little time out… you can see at 1:30 she didn’t want to sit. So, if she barks and doesn’t commit on a start, you can assume that the connection was not clear enough and a smoother way to reset if something goes awry is call her back to your side and reset with the cookie at your side to re-start the next rep.
>.. She seemed to do better when I had a toy instead of food>>
I think she liked the food as the line up reward, and definitely preferred the toy as the main reward for all the action 🙂
>>I had trouble doing the sideways one, I don’t know why I couldn’t quite get that.
You had some really smooth moments of this, like at :33 and :37 and :43! I think you were maybe trying to rotate sideways a step or two too soon – you can run forward and decelerate while moving forward for another few steps, then you can try shifting to the sideways sending, that might feel smoother.
The spin looked great at 1:02 and the race tracks at the end looked great!!!
>.perhaps the barrels should be farther apart?>>
yes, you can move the barrels further apart, she will like that. With the increased distance, the line up to start each rep becomes even more important, so definitely emphasize that 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
>>Can’t remember which previous class it was where we had started working on these but I was pleasantly surprised with this session as we haven’t done much with these verbals for several weeks.>>
I think it was CAMP over the summer, where there was a sitting game like this 🙂
He did well here, lots of successes!!!!
>> In this session I was holding on to his tab until I saw (or thought I saw) him lock on to the correct obstacle and then I let him go. Is that what I should be doing or should I be starting to just give the cue and see which one he takes?>>
Yes and no haha Holding him until he is looking the correct direction definitely helps and it is a good starting point – by changing where he was looking, he was asking “this one?” and if you let him go, that affirmed it (or if you kept holding him, he asked if it was the other obstacle). So it is a good start but in the next session, try to help less:
hold him and repeat the verbal 3 or 4 times and then let him go regardless of where he is looking (and keep repeating the verbal). That will take things to the next level for sure!
One thing to add in that next session: as you are repeating the verbals while holding them, make the verbals more different in sound – as if you were running a course and saying them You were really quiet here and my guess is that the tunnel verbal on a course would be bigger, louder, longer 🙂 It will feel weird doing it while sitting LOL!! But the volume/length/pitch all help him differentiate (versus the jump verbal which is quieter and more conversational.
So it is possible that my dogs don’t know the difference between tunnel and jump if said them both the exact same way – but they are able to differentiate between the ‘really long loud unnel type word’ and the ‘shorter less loud word’ LOL!!
And of course you can mix in the handling games where you both get to move 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
